UHD Media Mastered at 1000 nits vs. 4000 nits - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 39 Old 05-06-2018, 03:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Noydcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Is there an update to ConnecTEDDD's chart for recent releases including Saving Private Ryan?

Noyd Communications Inc. representing:
VIZIO, RIVA Audio, DVDO, MarkAudio-SOTA,
Kaleidescape, Helm Audio, Puro Sound Labs,
Luxury Technology Shows
Noydcom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 39 Old 05-06-2018, 03:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,740
Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2904 Post(s)
Liked: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noydcom View Post
Is there an update to ConnecTEDDD's chart for recent releases including Saving Private Ryan?
Hi, unfortunately I haven't found the required time to write all the explanation related with static metadata, while I'm still updating it internally.

About Saving Private Ryan (US):

Mastering Display Color Primaries : DCI-P3 / D65 White Point
Mastering Display Luminance: Min: 0.0001 cd/m2, Max: 1000 cd/m2

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #33 of 39 Old 05-07-2018, 04:12 AM
Senior Member
 
fatallerror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 408
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Leon The Professional has multiple files with different metadata, the extended scenes have different metadata from theatrical release. Basically it has 2 sets of metadata, they are changing per scene.

It has happened with other titles also.

There many differences between regions also.

The list I have is huge, it has 414 titles checked right now.

Some times Vertex report inaccurate results, we do multiple checks with all HD Fury models.
Where can we see that list with 400+ titles?
fatallerror is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 39 Old 05-07-2018, 04:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,740
Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2904 Post(s)
Liked: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
Where can we see that list with 400+ titles?
Hi, I have not published it yet, it has 565 checked titles currently, I will publish once I will have complete explanation also about how metadata works etc. (no ETA)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #35 of 39 Old 05-07-2018, 04:49 AM
Senior Member
 
fatallerror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 408
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, I have not published it yet, it has 565 checked titles currently, I will publish once I will have complete explanation also about how metadata works etc. (no ETA)
Awesome, I'm curious. Even though we don't know how these movies should look like I think anything above 1000-1500 nits are not relevant to the plot just eye candy so sky details, explosions etc.
These readings are useful, probably MaxFALL is the more important number to look, Sony and 2018 LG OLEDs are following the reference curve as long possible before clipping and maybe they are right since those extra bright details are rare in most movies. I mean, dimming the whole movie to show those few bright effects is not worth it for most people so I guess MaxCLL is less important with current display tech. But LG gives the option with Dynamic Tone Mapping to show as much detail possible.
fatallerror is offline  
post #36 of 39 Old 05-24-2018, 04:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,740
Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2904 Post(s)
Liked: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
Awesome, I'm curious. Even though we don't know how these movies should look like I think anything above 1000-1500 nits are not relevant to the plot just eye candy so sky details, explosions etc.
These readings are useful, probably MaxFALL is the more important number to look, Sony and 2018 LG OLEDs are following the reference curve as long possible before clipping and maybe they are right since those extra bright details are rare in most movies. I mean, dimming the whole movie to show those few bright effects is not worth it for most people so I guess MaxCLL is less important with current display tech. But LG gives the option with Dynamic Tone Mapping to show as much detail possible.
The reality is that all these stuff with dynamic processing of each frame the manufacturers are adding, Dynamic Tone Mapping etc. all these are destroying the communication of the director's intent in any kind of authentic way.

To preserve as much of the intent as possible, displays have to follow very tight the PQ until the levels they can display, not to re-adjust their tone mapping according each movie metadata, ignoring the metadata is the best approach for me.

If you want to see how accurate picture with WRGB OLED's you get see there: 2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

The WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, this distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WRGB OLED's can never be calibrated accurately for HDR... ...but can be calibrated with 3D LUT in SDR mode, the recommendation is up 105-110 nits, there will be to ABL limiting and displays are more stable overs the time at these nits levels.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #37 of 39 Old 05-24-2018, 09:28 AM
Senior Member
 
fatallerror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 408
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The reality is that all these stuff with dynamic processing of each frame the manufacturers are adding, Dynamic Tone Mapping etc. all these are destroying the communication of the director's intent in any kind of authentic way.

To preserve as much of the intent as possible, displays have to follow very tight the PQ until the levels they can display, not to re-adjust their tone mapping according each movie metadata, ignoring the metadata is the best approach for me.

If you want to see how accurate picture with WRGB OLED's you get see there: 2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

The WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, this distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WRGB OLED's can never be calibrated accurately for HDR... ...but can be calibrated with 3D LUT in SDR mode, the recommendation is up 105-110 nits, there will be to ABL limiting and displays are more stable overs the time at these nits levels.
Well if it's optional then I don't see these features harmful. You just turn it off if you don't want to.
This is why I like Sony's (and now LG's) approach, they won't roll off before 700 or so nits. But they are not the best, here in Europe we also have Panasonic and the 2018 Panasonic is probably doing the best job. Here's a polish test, with Google Translate you can get the point, at least I could understand it

HDR10 performance is the most important, DV is so problematic that the more I know about it the less I care about it before 12-bit 10000 nit panels... I really like how Panasonic handling HDR10. But even if we will have 4000 nits displays, HDR10 will look outstanding. Actually I don't even know when they will start to master movies at more than 4000 nits. HDR is in very early stages, current content will be outdated in 5 years.

Great post, long and I barely understand it because I'm just a simple person, I don't know much about video signal But more or less I understand the limitations of the WRGB

Last edited by fatallerror; 05-24-2018 at 09:32 AM.
fatallerror is offline  
post #38 of 39 Old 05-24-2018, 09:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1758 Post(s)
Liked: 1061
How is it possible to know better than the company behind HDR10 and DV?

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
DisplayCalNoob is offline  
post #39 of 39 Old 05-15-2019, 04:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, the US version of Blad Runner 2049 has 10000 nits metadata, the UK (and probably other EU version) have 4000 nits.

OPPO is not reporting the Primaries/White Point cordinates of the mastering monitor or MaxCLL / MaxFALL also.

US Blade Runner 2049 mastering monitor had REC.2020 Primaries while UK had DCI-P3 primaries (always REC.2020 is used as container and it's the colorspace you aim as target when you calibrate for HDR10/DV)

See a quick example of what differences some movies (and a lot of others will have when the list will be available) have between regions (while UHD don't have region code restriction)....interesting differences:



Looks like Blade Runner 2049 is the first movie mastered with 10000nits monitor using REC.2020 primaries.

Blade Runner 2049 is the second title which has REC.2020 primaries, there is another one from BBC US: Wild Africa/ Tiny Giants (but mastered using a 4000 nit monitor).

There 2 ways to calibrated a Studio Mastering Monitor, one is to calibrated it for DCI-P3 with REC.2020 D65 and at the end to put these data to a REC.2020 container and the other way is to calibrated the monitor to REC.2020 directly; to take advance a monitor which has higher coverage from DCI-P3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When we say ''4000 nits monitor used'' doesn't mean that the movie will have up to 4000 nits levels, it can have much lower or much higher, look examples below:






Mastering using 1000/4000 nits capable monitor a lot of times can contain brighter content from 1000/4000nits, just the colorist look the waveform and RGB histogram and leave un-clipped content above 1000/4000nits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
There is this link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
@ConnecTEDDD is also working on a list
Greetings Ted. Thanks for compiling the list. Has the complete list been published?
Many thanks and best regards,
qoopy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off