2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 101 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2143Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3001 of 3131 Old 05-01-2019, 06:12 AM
Newbie
 
FoxFire68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 1
First of all, excuse my English.
I have been following this post for a long time as I am the owner of the LG C865.
To calibrate my TV use
- Calman Home Enthusiast 5.9.2.59
- Xrite Display Pro retail rev.B
- RPI Pattern Generator by Biasi
- HDfury Linker

When I try to calibrate in SDR with the Autocal function the workfolw of LG SDR proceeds regularly up to the template "Saturation Sweeps". When I press the Autocal setup button I get this window



and tells me that the device does not support this operation.

If I press ok Calman does not go ahead and if I remove the check mark from the "Gamut CMS settings" option and press OK nothing happens and also the "read series" function does not work.
If I go on without doing the "Saturation Sweeps" the results I get are these:



Why can't I do the Saturation test?

Thanks for your help.

Last edited by FoxFire68; 05-01-2019 at 06:48 AM.
FoxFire68 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3002 of 3131 Old 05-01-2019, 11:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
Saturation sweeps is just a page to take readings, to check the results of the calibration that you have just done on the pages before that. Same with luminance sweeps.

So instead of pressing the "autocal" button, all you need to do is to press the "read series" button. This is the one under your mouse pointer in your second picture
calfcramp likes this.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3003 of 3131 Old 05-01-2019, 11:54 PM
Newbie
 
FoxFire68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Saturation sweeps is just a page to take readings, to check the results of the calibration that you have just done on the pages before that. Same with luminance sweeps.

So instead of pressing the "autocal" button, all you need to do is to press the "read series" button. This is the one under your mouse pointer in your second picture
Thank you so much !!
I completed a first workflow using a fast 3D Lut creation (Matrix Lut) and the results I think are satisfactory (see attachments).
What do you think?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Saturation.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	236.8 KB
ID:	2561320   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pre.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	189.9 KB
ID:	2561322   Click image for larger version

Name:	Post.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	188.3 KB
ID:	2561324   Click image for larger version

Name:	Grayscale.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	251.3 KB
ID:	2561326   Click image for larger version

Name:	Colorochecker.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	313.2 KB
ID:	2561328  

WiFi-Spy likes this.
FoxFire68 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3004 of 3131 Old 05-02-2019, 05:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Does anyone in here know what advantages there are to newer firmware updates than 4.10.15 on the LG B8? I've noticed that when I search for updates via the TV nothing pops up, but when I go to LG's website there is a newer firmware under their B8 support section. Is LG intentionally not listing these newer firmware versions in their TV auto update? I don't want to download the newer version if they make something worse.
TheModestGun is online now  
post #3005 of 3131 Old 05-02-2019, 05:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,313
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheModestGun View Post
Does anyone in here know what advantages there are to newer firmware updates than 4.10.15 on the LG B8? I've noticed that when I search for updates via the TV nothing pops up, but when I go to LG's website there is a newer firmware under their B8 support section. Is LG intentionally not listing these newer firmware versions in their TV auto update? I don't want to download the newer version if they make something worse.


For the C8 4.10.31 fixed the macro blocking flashing issue but also impacted gamma in a negative way for some , supposedly a fix is on the way . I personally would hold off for that one unless you have the flashing issue and it is bothering you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2
chunon is offline  
post #3006 of 3131 Old 05-02-2019, 07:39 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheModestGun View Post
Does anyone in here know what advantages there are to newer firmware updates than 4.10.15 on the LG B8? I've noticed that when I search for updates via the TV nothing pops up, but when I go to LG's website there is a newer firmware under their B8 support section. Is LG intentionally not listing these newer firmware versions in their TV auto update? I don't want to download the newer version if they make something worse.


For the C8 4.10.31 fixed the macro blocking flashing issue but also impacted gamma in a negative way for some , supposedly a fix is on the way . I personally would hold off for that one unless you have the flashing issue and it is bothering you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Alright cool, perhaps I’ll hold off then until LG pushes out an automatic update for the B8 since I haven’t noticed any macroblocking and I’ve only seen near black flashing on the black bars in like one piece of media. Seems odd that they would list the firmware update on their website for manual install though, but not a push straight to the TV.

Thanks for the info!
TheModestGun is online now  
post #3007 of 3131 Old 05-03-2019, 03:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
janos666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Hey, I just realized we probably don't even really need a DolbyVision capable signal generator to calibrate the DV picture modes of the 2018 LG TVs. Isn't it only required to validate the results?
I am not sure since I never saw the full DV process but if it's anything like the HDR10 calibration then it's all about calibrating the panel to D65 with gamma 2.2 while most of the HDR-related processing is temporarily deactivated. I guess we could even simply copy-paste the 1DLUT between HDR10 and DV modes. And I guess the DV related "parameter upload" is also based on the native gamut measurements, so there is nothing we really need from a DV signal generator.
Or is it already suppose to work now with madTPG (picking HDR10 mode but selecting the DV workflow) and I just overlooked it?

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
janos666 is offline  
post #3008 of 3131 Old 05-03-2019, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 5,243
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4284 Post(s)
Liked: 5236
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
Hey, I just realized we probably don't even really need a DolbyVision capable signal generator to calibrate the DV picture modes of the 2018 LG TVs. Isn't it only required to validate the results?
I am not sure since I never saw the full DV process but if it's anything like the HDR10 calibration then it's all about calibrating the panel to D65 with gamma 2.2 while most of the HDR-related processing is temporarily deactivated. I guess we could even simply copy-paste the 1DLUT between HDR10 and DV modes. And I guess the DV related "parameter upload" is also based on the native gamut measurements, so there is nothing we really need from a DV signal generator.
Or is it already suppose to work now with madTPG (picking HDR10 mode but selecting the DV workflow) and I just overlooked it?
You still need the DV patterns to put the set in DV bypass mode and do an 20 pt dv calibration.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is offline  
post #3009 of 3131 Old 05-03-2019, 04:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
Hey, I just realized we probably don't even really need a DolbyVision capable signal generator to calibrate the DV picture modes of the 2018 LG TVs. Isn't it only required to validate the results?
I am not sure since I never saw the full DV process but if it's anything like the HDR10 calibration then it's all about calibrating the panel to D65 with gamma 2.2 while most of the HDR-related processing is temporarily deactivated. I guess we could even simply copy-paste the 1DLUT between HDR10 and DV modes.
Unfortunately that's the rub. It's not like the HDR10/HLG calibration IIRC.

However, you can partially do it. This was advice posted by Teddd in https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57774966
Quote:
The changes you will do to medium temp white balance preset of Service Menu
(while you will display HDR10 patterns),

they will affect the RGB balance of Warm 1 of normal menu,
both HDR10/DV RGB balance will share that color temp and will be affected,
so you pre-cal RGB balance in SM
and then you select that color temp [Warm 1] when you will watch HDR10/DV.

Factory DV color gamut tracking is good, grayscale RGB balance is off usually, doing the above you can improve DV RGB balance without having any DV pattern generator to verify the results, its the best you can do without spending a $.
HTH

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3010 of 3131 Old 05-03-2019, 05:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
janos666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You still need the DV patterns to put the set in DV bypass mode and do an 20 pt dv calibration.
If the underlying "base" calibration targets are identical (D65 gamma 2.2 at unrestricted peak panel luminance) then I don't see why CalMAN could not take the measurements and iterate the 1DLUT in "HDR10 bypass" mode and then upload them to the 1DLUT slot of the DV mode.
The only potential issue I see here is if the TV has to be switched to DV mode in order to upload a 1DLUT into that slot. But I think even that could be worked around by playing a DV demo video with the built-in player (once the 1DLUT is ready on the PC).
(I guess it's not the signal generator which puts the TV into "bypass" mode but CalMAN. And we can put the TV into DV mode without using any kind of HDMI device.)

If these picture modes use the same "base" then I think it would be preferable solely to save time on this even if you had a DV capable signal generator (let alone the convenience of not having to buy one). "Time is money." (And then you have the panel IR/drifting issues...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Unfortunately that's the rub. It's not like the HDR10/HLG calibration IIRC.

However, you can partially do it. This was advice posted by Teddd in https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57774966
Yeah, I know about the EZ-ADJUST menu. I used it on a C7 before. But you probably know how this last firmware changes the tone response curve...

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list

Last edited by janos666; 05-03-2019 at 05:10 PM.
janos666 is offline  
post #3011 of 3131 Old 05-04-2019, 07:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Jin-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Has the newest firmware fixed the AutoCal black crush introduced with .31 that BlackJoker discovered?
Jin-X is offline  
post #3012 of 3131 Old 05-04-2019, 09:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin-x View Post
has the newest firmware fixed the autocal black crush introduced with .31 that blackjoker discovered?
faq.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3013 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 10:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hey all,

i've just finished my first attempt at calibrating an LG C8 (on firmware 4.10.55) for SDR (ISF Dark, BT.1886, brightness 51, contrast 84) using an i1Display Pro OEM, HCFR (settings: WRGB C7 as display type, recommended color difference formula (which equals CIE76(uv) afaik; Absolute Y w/o gamma for gray scale DE handlng is fixed).

any comments on the results are welcome.

cheers,
oledmod


PS: changed TV settings as follows...reduced red saturation seems strange, but this is the only way the dE got reduced. others are as good as possible and won't go down without changing tint (which introduces banding, so i don't touch it)
- white balance, low: R0 G0 B2; high: R0 G-1 B-2
- CMS, red: saturation -11 (?!), luminance 3; green: s0, l2; blue: s0, l1; cyan: s0, l1; magenta: s0, l2; yellow: s0, l2
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hcfr 1.png
Views:	49
Size:	445.9 KB
ID:	2562664   Click image for larger version

Name:	hcfr 2.png
Views:	42
Size:	537.2 KB
ID:	2562666  
mrtickleuk likes this.
oledmod is offline  
post #3014 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 11:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Jin-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
faq.
If you are referring to the nice FAQ that there is on the C8 owner's thread, I could not find an answer to my question there. Couldn't find an faq on this thread either with the search function.
Jin-X is offline  
post #3015 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 11:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,313
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
hey all,

i've just finished my first attempt at calibrating an LG C8 (on firmware 4.10.55) for SDR (ISF Dark, BT.1886, brightness 51, contrast 84) using an i1Display Pro OEM, HCFR (settings: WRGB C7 as display type, recommended color difference formula (which equals CIE76(uv) afaik; Absolute Y w/o gamma for gray scale DE handlng is fixed).

any comments on the results are welcome.

cheers,
oledmod


PS: changed TV settings as follows...reduced red saturation seems strange, but this is the only way the dE got reduced. others are as good as possible and won't go down without changing tint (which introduces banding, so i don't touch it)
- white balance, low: R0 G0 B2; high: R0 G-1 B-2
- CMS, red: saturation -11 (?!), luminance 3; green: s0, l2; blue: s0, l1; cyan: s0, l1; magenta: s0, l2; yellow: s0, l2


You shouldn’t have to change the cms at all minimum
Adjustments at the most , in fact it doesnt work correctly and causes artifacts with extreme adjustments. . You are better off using the color control. What size patterns are you using and is asbl off in the service menu ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
janos666 likes this.

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2

Last edited by chunon; 05-05-2019 at 11:47 AM.
chunon is offline  
post #3016 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 11:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin-X View Post
If you are referring to the nice FAQ that there is on the C8 owner's thread, I could not find an answer to my question there. Couldn't find an faq on this thread either with the search function.
Sorry, I was overly blunt. What you posted was a Frequently Asked Question on many threads, not limited to the C8 owner's thread and the Dedicated thread . Barely a day goes by now without someone re-posting similar questions. I didn't mean there is a FAQ which answers it because it's a constantly changing situation - I meant "please read back a few pages"

That said, my answer FWIW. The .31 firmware introduced a new "black crush" on some panels which has got many owners upset. Vincent Teoh has advised owners who are thinking of getting a pro calibration to "hold off" from installing it. The .55 firmware fixed some bugs with ARC and the smooth gradation within "MPEG Noise reduction" which got killed by .31. Several different people have heard from LG that a new firmware is in the works to "fix the gamma curve issue". So we are all waiting to see what the next firmware changes.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs

Last edited by mrtickleuk; 05-05-2019 at 11:38 AM.
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3017 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 12:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
janos666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
You shouldn’t have to change the cms at all minimum
in fact it doesnt work correctly and causes artifacts with extreme adjustments.
Indeed, IMO the slightest adjustment already causes some small issues, we simply don't normally see those (but we obviously spot the much more widespread errors of bigger adjustments).
The LG's are the same as the Kuros: the CMS in the user menu should never be touched, just leave it alone at all times

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
we are all waiting to see what the next firmware changes.
My guess is they will update their factory LUTs to adjust for the change in the panel's tone response (at average). IMO, This would be the most friendly solution at this point because it wouldn't make a third custom re-calibration necessary (for those who didn't wish to wait for an unspecified amount of time to see what might happens). I just don't see them coming up with a solution which restores the old tone response while still hide the original "macro blocking" issue as much as possible (even the current fix isn't a 100% solution, just good enough).

---

By the way... I just read the latest CalMAN changelog. It says some kind of "unity LUT" is now unlocked for the C8 OLED. What's that? I didn't see anything like that (with this exact name) while connecting to a B8 either. Was it limited to the W8 (and the B8 will never have it unlocked in CalMAN)?
I think I came across this "unity" word in this topic before but I always assumed people used this name for the 1DLUT to make it easier to separate from the 3DLUT. Is this a third LUT?
I don't feel like setting up my notebook just to check it out. That is, unless it's beneficial and makes it worthwhile to re-calibrate my C8.
chunon and mrtickleuk like this.

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list

Last edited by janos666; 05-05-2019 at 12:46 PM.
janos666 is offline  
post #3018 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 02:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
You shouldn’t have to change the cms at all minimum
Adjustments at the most , in fact it doesnt work correctly and causes artifacts with extreme adjustments. . You are better off using the color control. What size patterns are you using and is asbl off in the service menu ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

well, apart from red saturation, those luminance adjustments are minimal. red dE is 3.5 without the saturation adjustment.

I use the recommended chapters from TED's disk, don't have the window sizes at hand.
at least in terms of gradation, only CMS tint causes issues, saturation and luminance does not. the minor luminance adjustments also don't seem to cause any apparent other issues. if i leave out CMS completely (even the +1/+2 luminance adjustments), dE of primary and secondary colors goes up to around 2. would you still not use it at all?


how about the 2p white balance?
gamma seems a bit strange (and recommended settings are without gamma) and too high.
oledmod is offline  
post #3019 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 02:37 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,313
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
well, apart from red saturation, those luminance adjustments are minimal. red dE is 3.5 without the saturation adjustment.

I use the recommended chapters from TED's disk, don't have the window sizes at hand.
at least in terms of gradation, only CMS tint causes issues, saturation and luminance does not. the minor luminance adjustments also don't seem to cause any apparent other issues. if i leave out CMS completely (even the +1/+2 luminance adjustments), dE of primary and secondary colors goes up to around 2. would you still not use it at all?


how about the 2p white balance?
gamma seems a bit strange (and recommended settings are without gamma) and too high.


Saturation and luminance can definitely cause issues , I have never seen red be over saturated in my calibrations always a tad under saturated . My understanding is the only controls that can be safely used is the hue control. Are you doing a 20 pt or just a 2 point ? What stim
Are you using to adjust cms ?





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2
chunon is offline  
post #3020 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 03:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Saturation and luminance can definitely cause issues , I have never seen red be over saturated in my calibrations always a tad under saturated . My understanding is the only controls that can be safely used is the hue control. Are you doing a 20 pt or just a 2 point ? What stim
Are you using to adjust cms ?

So far, I only did 2 point. Just wanted to update the calibration that my calibrator did a while ago. Will do 20p soon.


I can of course undo the saturation adjustment for red, then all that's changed is some luminance values from 0 to +1/+2. Again, red dE is 3.5 and is reduced to 0.7 if I change saturation. I used the 100%/100% stim from the ChromaPure chapter.



By hue, you mean tint in LG's CMS?
If so, this is definitely the one that is NOT safe to change. Even changing it by 1 point leads to massive gradation issues as per the color ramp pattern on TED's disk. The minor luminance changes just slightly shift the color cone, but do not introduce any errors in that pattern.
oledmod is offline  
post #3021 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 03:10 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,313
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3778 Post(s)
Liked: 3606
2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
So far, I only did 2 point. Just wanted to update the calibration that my calibrator did a while ago. Will do 20p soon.


I can of course undo the saturation adjustment for red, then all that's changed is some luminance values from 0 to +1/+2. Again, red dE is 3.5 and is reduced to 0.7 if I change saturation. I used the 100%/100% stim from the ChromaPure chapter.



By hue, you mean tint in LG's CMS?
If so, this is definitely the one that is NOT safe to change. Even changing it by 1 point leads to massive gradation issues as per the color ramp pattern on TED's disk. The minor luminance changes just slightly shift the color cone, but do not introduce any errors in that pattern.


Okay my calibrator would disagree with you there , I am confused why you are messing with a pro calibration ? Depending on what meter was used you really don’t know whether your meter is accurate , and you are using an Edr from a 2017 panel. You asked for feedback but don’t seem to really want it . Best of luck sigh . You shouldn’t adjust cms with 100/100 its more important to get the other saturation levels Lined up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2

Last edited by chunon; 05-05-2019 at 03:38 PM.
chunon is offline  
post #3022 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 04:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sillysally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,145
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
By the way... I just read the latest CalMAN changelog. It says some kind of "unity LUT" is now unlocked for the C8 OLED. What's that? I didn't see anything like that (with this exact name) while connecting to a B8 either. Was it limited to the W8 (and the B8 will never have it unlocked in CalMAN)?
I think I came across this "unity" word in this topic before but I always assumed people used this name for the 1DLUT to make it easier to separate from the 3DLUT. Is this a third LUT?
I don't feel like setting up my notebook just to check it out. That is, unless it's beneficial and makes it worthwhile to re-calibrate my C8.
Unity LUT is a neutral LUT, setup for when you run a 3DLUT. When you start a new 3DLUT the unity 3DLUT automatically overwrite any existing 3DLUT in the slot you wish to use and store the 3DLUT.


ss
janos666 likes this.

"Don't worry be happy"
LG77C8, Klein K10-A, Jeti 1211, CMS Lightspace, Calman home plus licence for K10-A, Murideo 6G.
sillysally is offline  
post #3023 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 04:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
janos666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Unity LUT is a neutral LUT, setup for when you run a 3DLUT. When you start a new 3DLUT the unity 3DLUT automatically overwrite any existing 3DLUT in the slot you wish to use and store the 3DLUT.
Thanks. Then I don't understand the changelog entry. The "Reset" seemingly always set the 3DUT to neutral with the older versions. May be it's now in the RC1 release notes becasue something was broken in a Beta version (which I never knew about).

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
janos666 is offline  
post #3024 of 3131 Old 05-05-2019, 05:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sillysally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,145
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
Thanks. Then I don't understand the changelog entry. The "Reset" seemingly always set the 3DUT to neutral with the older versions. May be it's now in the RC1 release notes becasue something was broken in a Beta version (which I never knew about).
Don't know for fact why the change in CM. The thing about the Unity LUT being added (probably as a option) is that you can install the Unity LUT over a existing 3DLUT without have to do a full reset for that slot you have the 3DLUT in. iow all adjustment made by you and autocal for a 1DLUT (Grayscale) will still be in place when you run a new profile/3DLUT (CMS).

ss

ss

"Don't worry be happy"
LG77C8, Klein K10-A, Jeti 1211, CMS Lightspace, Calman home plus licence for K10-A, Murideo 6G.
sillysally is offline  
post #3025 of 3131 Old 05-06-2019, 01:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Don't know for fact why the change in CM. The thing about the Unity LUT being added (probably as a option) is that you can install the Unity LUT over a existing 3DLUT without have to do a full reset for that slot you have the 3DLUT in. iow all adjustment made by you and autocal for a 1DLUT (Grayscale) will still be in place when you run a new profile/3DLUT (CMS).
Sorry for being slow, but I still find that too confusing to understand.

This is what I think happens with the current 2018 version:
  • The "Enable Calibration" tickbox does a "full DDC reset" and this uploads a unity 1DLUT and/or a unity 3DLUT to the slots for this Picture Mode. You can visibly see a difference on the screen when this happens.
  • At this point, you have now lost LG's calibration 1DLUT and 3DLUT for that Picture Mode. There is no way back, and your only way to restore the LG calibration 1DLUT and 3DLUT for that Picture Mode is to do a full reset of the whole TV.
  • Next, Calman creates a 1DLUT for your greyscale and uploads it when you've finished calibration of greyscale.
  • Next, Calman creates a 3DLUT for your colours and uploads if when you've finished either Matrix, Lightning or multi-point 3DLUT reading.

How would uploading a unity 3DLUT at any other time be any benefit? It would be worse than the LG 3DLUT and your own 3DLUT.

EDIT:
cross-checking with https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57999062

It's not a "unity 3DLUT", it's a unity greyscale option for within the 3DLUT that you create (using the same methods as before).

I don't know what this means for the 1DLUT that you upload though.
janos666 and GetThePuckOut like this.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs

Last edited by mrtickleuk; 05-06-2019 at 01:58 AM.
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3026 of 3131 Old 05-06-2019, 04:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
janos666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This is what I think happens with the current 2018 version:
  • The "Enable Calibration" tickbox does a "full DDC reset" and this uploads a unity 1DLUT and/or a unity 3DLUT to the slots for this Picture Mode. You can visibly see a difference on the screen when this happens.
  • At this point, you have now lost LG's calibration 1DLUT and 3DLUT for that Picture Mode. There is no way back, and your only way to restore the LG calibration 1DLUT and 3DLUT for that Picture Mode is to do a full reset of the whole TV.
  • Next, Calman creates a 1DLUT for your greyscale and uploads it when you've finished calibration of greyscale.
  • Next, Calman creates a 3DLUT for your colours and uploads if when you've finished either Matrix, Lightning or multi-point 3DLUT reading.
Yes, that's my understanding as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
It's not a "unity 3DLUT", it's a unity greyscale option for within the 3DLUT that you create (using the same methods as before).

I don't know what this means for the 1DLUT that you upload though.
Oh! My bad. I already forgot the exact text when I asked the question and thus it turned out to be too vague and misleading.

On a second thought (after reading the changelog entry again) I guess this means the 3DLUT is created in a way (if you enable this option) that doesn't alter the grayscale (hence the results of the 1DLUT).
So, even if your 1DLUT calibration happened to provide inadequate results (or was deliberately skipped entirely --- or the panel drifted a lot in the mean time) the next step (the 3DLUT) won't try to correct the existing grayscale errors (which aren't necessarily perceived as errors by the user).

I guess this was added because in some cases the 3DLUT just made the grascale slightly worse than it was with the 1DLUT alone. Or some people deliberately want custom grayscale targets which CalMAN can't currently use as a target for the 3DLUT (so they set up their custom grayscale but then the 3DLUT forces some standard grayscale on top).

It's not for me then. I never liked to treat white (grays) separately from any other colors in a 3D colorspace. And I use the matrix LUT option anyway (or I guess I would try to use the 3DLUT with a neutral 1DLUT if I wished to run a big iterative measurement set for the 3DLUT anyways).

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
janos666 is offline  
post #3027 of 3131 Old 05-06-2019, 04:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
My understanding though is that the 1DLUT and 3DLUT are uploaded into separate slots in the TV. Interested in knowing what it's trying to do technically - there's only so much we can learn from speculating and measuring

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3028 of 3131 Old 05-06-2019, 06:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
janos666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
My understanding though is that the 1DLUT and 3DLUT are uploaded into separate slots in the TV
Yes but the end result (after the TV exits from calibration mode and resumes normal operation) is the superposition of the two LUTs (and the third layer in the display panel's ADC which translates the digital bits into voltages [plus does the WRGB f'kery in this case]).
So, theoretically you can calibrate the 1DLUT to D50 and gamma 2.0 targets and then create the 3DLUT with D65 and gamma 2.2 targets, resulting in a D65 and gamma 2.2 final response (but probably at the cost of a little more loss of precision, aka more banding).


But you can try this for yourself: do a full reset on a picture mode, skip the 1DLUT grayscale entirely (click Next without running AutoCAL on that page) and run the AutoCAL on the 3DLUT page (The Matrix won't cut it here but the Lighting option might works good enough for the sake of a quick test. I personally did this with the third option while choosing the minimum allowed number or patches, some 2500 or so which took about an hour if I recall). If your check the results, you will see how surprisingly close you are to your targets (say, D65 gamma 2.2) with the neutral 1DLUT. Of course the "quality" of this calibration depends on a lot of things as always (don't expect flawless results but even those ~2500 patches might give you acceptable results, even if you are fixated on the accuracy of the grays over other colors). In my case the 3DLUT-only result was virtually as good as the 1DLUT + matrix (with the exception of some blue colors which stood out). But we know CalMAN's 3DLUTs aren't flawless in either situations (1DLUT or not), so this could also be improved simply by using a better 3DLUT generator (sorry if the latest 2019 RC1 release improved already, I haven't check it out yet). The blue color thing was already discussed here (it's more or less always present unless you stick to the Matrix option but things like that are probably more pronounced if you skip the 1DLUT, this is why I picked the 1D+matrix option).
mrtickleuk likes this.

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list

Last edited by janos666; 05-06-2019 at 06:12 AM.
janos666 is offline  
post #3029 of 3131 Old 05-06-2019, 06:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4421 Post(s)
Liked: 6700
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
But you can try this for yourself: do a full reset on a picture mode, skip the 1DLUT grayscale entirely (click Next without running AutoCAL on that page) and run the AutoCAL on the 3DLUT page (The Matrix won't cut it here but the Lighting option might works good enough for the sake of a quick test.
Thankyou! I'd never thought of doing that!

I've only ever done Matrix and Lightning LUTs because I only have a C6 HDR2000 and didn't think my setup would be accurate enough for it to be worthwhile.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #3030 of 3131 Old 05-06-2019, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
 
thepiecesfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
hey all,

i've just finished my first attempt at calibrating an LG C8 (on firmware 4.10.55) for SDR (ISF Dark, BT.1886, brightness 51, contrast 84) using an i1Display Pro OEM, HCFR (settings: WRGB C7 as display type, recommended color difference formula (which equals CIE76(uv) afaik; Absolute Y w/o gamma for gray scale DE handlng is fixed).

any comments on the results are welcome.

cheers,
oledmod


PS: changed TV settings as follows...reduced red saturation seems strange, but this is the only way the dE got reduced. others are as good as possible and won't go down without changing tint (which introduces banding, so i don't touch it)
- white balance, low: R0 G0 B2; high: R0 G-1 B-2
- CMS, red: saturation -11 (?!), luminance 3; green: s0, l2; blue: s0, l1; cyan: s0, l1; magenta: s0, l2; yellow: s0, l2
I have had luck with setting color to 49 and Brightness 51 with sub pixel brightness 127. Here is my attempt at a flat 2.4 gamma. Did the two point first then worked top down on luminance first full 20 point sweep, and then tackled the RGB controls also top down and doing full 20 point sweeps.

I did use tint controls, where did you notice the banding as a result of using tint?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.png
Views:	33
Size:	169.0 KB
ID:	2563476   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.png
Views:	31
Size:	336.1 KB
ID:	2563480  
thepiecesfit is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off