2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 102 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3031 of 3131 Old 05-07-2019, 10:17 AM
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Do measure more colors (e.g primaries/secondaries at different saturations). I wouldn't be surprised that reducing red saturation that much causes less saturated reds to become visibly under-saturated.
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post #3032 of 3131 Old 05-07-2019, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't followed the flow here but the only way to fix this Red problem is to create a new 3D LUT 1,300-3,000 points should do it.
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post #3033 of 3131 Old 05-07-2019, 11:24 PM
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I want to do a fresh calibration on my 65" C8 OLED. I used to have a htpc with madvr/3dlut, but I sold it and now I want to calibrate my C8 with autocal. Therefore I have a laptop with calman, an i1Display Pro colorimeter and no hardware pattern generator.

Can I use my laptop as a pattern generator or a second laptop as a generator? Should I use the calman client then or better use madvr's pattern generator? What settings should I use to get good results that are usable with my kodi box (osmc vero 4k+) which will be used over an hdmi port?

I have a calman enthusiast licence, but should I better get the new calman 2019 LG oled version?
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post #3034 of 3131 Old 05-08-2019, 07:16 AM
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Can I use my laptop as a pattern generator or a second laptop as a generator? Should I use the calman client then or better use madvr's pattern generator? What settings should I use to get good results that are usable with my kodi box (osmc vero 4k+) which will be used over an hdmi port?

I have a calman enthusiast licence, but should I better get the new calman 2019 LG oled version?
madTPG is fine but it's not entirely obvious to set up for CalMAN's built-in LG pattern sets (at least it wasn't for me). It seems to be the best to set:
- the VGA card to Full Range RGB (PC 0-255) output (probably not the default)
- madTPG to Limited TV (16-235) levels (not the default)
- CalMAN to Limited TV (16-235) levels (default) and don't tick the "expand to PC levels" under the advanced settings (leave these at defaults)
- the TV to Limited TV (16-235) settings (this is rather tricky because LG's "Black Level" High/Low logic is the opposite of most other manufacturer's naming schemes, you need the default Low here for Limited).

The same laptop can do this in extended desktop mode. But there is no DolbyVision with madVR yet.

We can update Home Enthusiast to 2019 RC1 (assuming you have a valid "Access") but I don't think we can activate the "LG/Samsung/Panasonic Home 2019" versions with our Enthusiast keys (that would require a separate purchase, I guess).

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post #3035 of 3131 Old 05-08-2019, 11:41 PM
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Hey guys. I've been trying to get the right settings for HDR what seems like an eternity, and the reason why is because with R. Masciolas HDR calibration patterns anything above 50 ire causes my meter to continue to increase in brightness. For example, if I run a 70 ire pattern, the reading will start at 600 and continue to increase in brightness if the test pattern stays up. Are you supposed to use the first reading as reference? I just can't understand the dramatic increase in brightness every second...I'm using the USB port if anyone is curious.
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post #3036 of 3131 Old 05-09-2019, 08:18 AM
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For example, if I run a 70 ire pattern, the reading will start at 600 and continue to increase in brightness if the test pattern stays up. Are you supposed to use the first reading as reference? I just can't understand the dramatic increase in brightness every second...
Yeah, that's "normal". It used to be like that on the 2017 series as well (and probably goes way back, although it's probably less prominent on older models which allow for lower peak luminance and use more aggressive ABL).

If you deliberately heat your entire panel up as much as possible within the limits of the built-in safeties (for example, you leave it running with a loop of 100% W,R,G,B,C,M,Y fullscreen fields for 20+ minutes in an attempt to get rid of some visible image retention) you will probably be able to observe some obvious changes in the tone response (dark grays will look overly bright and even the overall white balance might feel a bit different) with your naked eyes (I didn't try to measure this). It goes back to "normal" in a few minutes of average content (say, movies or video games) as it cools down.
I guess the same thing happens with small window patters (but even faster locally due to higher peak luma without the ABL): the panel gets warmer on that spot and thus the brightness increases.
(Note: the "cools down" and "heaths up" should be taken very vaguely here, this is probably not just about actual temperatures but also some electric charge buildup, etc... but the end result is the same from the perspective of visual observation...)

I think the right answer is that we should measure the "average" state: not entirely "cool", not overly "hot". But it's obviously rather tricky. I often see obvious IR after a 20-30 minute calibration session regardless of CalMAN's recommended fullscreen "pattern insertion" settings.

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post #3037 of 3131 Old 05-09-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Sorry for being slow, but I still find that too confusing to understand.

This is what I think happens with the current 2018 version:
  • The "Enable Calibration" tickbox does a "full DDC reset" and this uploads a unity 1DLUT and/or a unity 3DLUT to the slots for this Picture Mode. You can visibly see a difference on the screen when this happens.
  • At this point, you have now lost LG's calibration 1DLUT and 3DLUT for that Picture Mode. There is no way back, and your only way to restore the LG calibration 1DLUT and 3DLUT for that Picture Mode is to do a full reset of the whole TV.
  • Next, Calman creates a 1DLUT for your greyscale and uploads it when you've finished calibration of greyscale.
  • Next, Calman creates a 3DLUT for your colours and uploads if when you've finished either Matrix, Lightning or multi-point 3DLUT reading.

How would uploading a unity 3DLUT at any other time be any benefit? It would be worse than the LG 3DLUT and your own 3DLUT.

EDIT:
cross-checking with https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57999062

It's not a "unity 3DLUT", it's a unity greyscale option for within the 3DLUT that you create (using the same methods as before).

I don't know what this means for the 1DLUT that you upload though.
Sorry but what I posted is correct.
Please in the future when correcting a post make sure you know what you are talking about.

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post #3038 of 3131 Old 05-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
For example, if I run a 70 ire pattern, the reading will start at 600 and continue to increase in brightness if the test pattern stays up. Are you supposed to use the first reading as reference? I just can't understand the dramatic increase in brightness every second...
Yeah, that's "normal". It used to be like that on the 2017 series as well (and probably goes way back, although it's probably less prominent on older models which allow for lower peak luminance and use more aggressive ABL).

If you deliberately heat your entire panel up as much as possible within the limits of the built-in safeties (for example, you leave it running with a loop of 100% W,R,G,B,C,M,Y fullscreen fields for 20+ minutes in an attempt to get rid of some visible image retention) you will probably be able to observe some obvious changes in the tone response (dark grays will look overly bright and even the overall white balance might feel a bit different) with your naked eyes (I didn't try to measure this). It goes back to "normal" in a few minutes of average content (say, movies or video games) as it cools down.
I guess the same thing happens with small window patters (but even faster locally due to higher peak luma without the ABL): the panel gets warmer on that spot and thus the brightness increases.
(Note: the "cools down" and "heaths up" should be taken very vaguely here, this is probably not just about actual temperatures but also some electric charge buildup, etc... but the end result is the same from the perspective of visual observation...)

I think the right answer is that we should measure the "average" state: not entirely "cool", not overly "hot". But it's obviously rather tricky. I often see obvious IR after a 20-30 minute calibration session regardless of CalMAN's recommended fullscreen "pattern insertion" settings.
Ok, good to know it's normal. I did a manual calibration, because I'm crazy like that. I switched between the Netflix app and the picture app on the TV what seems like a thousand times, but I got everything dialed in perfectly. My goal was to never let the set get hot enough to affect my meter and it worked. Took three 1/2 hours. A couple of interesting thing I noticed: the full screen insertion patterns has a different color temp. I hope my calibration is accurate... The sharpness setting affects the EOTF. I believe it should always be left at 0. And lastly, there is no roll off of the high end after 80 ire if you constantly change the tv setting and let the image retention and heat dissipate. Calibrating a roll off, like bt3290 would be incredibly difficult, so I just left it alone. All that said, this is by far the best looking image I've ever seen on any TV....ever. The 10+ hours messing around with HDR over the last two months has really payed off.
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post #3039 of 3131 Old 05-09-2019, 06:44 PM
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I'll add that there's one thing that drives me crazy about hdr. Color theory and the overuse of orange and teal. It seems to affect every movie I've watched, and it's much more prominent than an SDR master. Someone please tell me that older movies don't have this issue. I only uhd movies I own areThe Last Jedi and Annihilation. The YouTube HDR movie clips look horrendous
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post #3040 of 3131 Old 05-09-2019, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I just saw some of this discussion on calibrating HDR on the 2018 LG OLED.

You will drive yourselves crazy trying to calibrate HDR manually. If you are going to take this route just do the 2pt HDR, 10% window, take quick readings and you are done. Trying to calibrate the HDR 20pt is fraught with issues and is very easy to "mess" up and only gives you a slight improvement if you are able to do it successfully. The trick with HDR is quick short readings as you are finding out.

As many have talked about in the past, besides doing a 2pt, you really can't calibrate HDR except the way it's done in CalMAN Autocal where the set is put in native 2.2 gamma mode, the 20pt is done then the HDR offsets are calculated similar to what's done in the Sony. A similar process is done for Dolby Vision.
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post #3041 of 3131 Old 05-09-2019, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I just saw some of this discussion on calibrating HDR on the 2018 LG OLED.

You will drive yourselves crazy trying to calibrate HDR manually. If you are going to take this route just do the 2pt HDR, 10% window, take quick readings and you are done. Trying to calibrate the HDR 20pt is fraught with issues and is very easy to "mess" up and only gives you a slight improvement if you are able to do it successfully. The trick with HDR is quick short readings as you are finding out.

As many have talked about in the past, besides doing a 2pt, you really can't calibrate HDR except the way it's done in CalMAN Autocal where the set is put in native 2.2 gamma mode, the 20pt is done then the HDR offsets are calculated similar to what's done in the Sony. A similar process is done for Dolby Vision.
It can be done, but it's extremely time consuming and laborious. I wouldn't do it for a friend unless they paid me in gold. But for my TV, I'm gonna make this bad boy sing!

Here are some pictures of my accomplishments. Even though it took forever, I'm glad I did it because the EOTF is was too bright in the high end at default. It's all jacked up. I'll probably share some setting in this group and the owners thread later.
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post #3042 of 3131 Old 05-10-2019, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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It can be done, but it's extremely time consuming and laborious. I wouldn't do it for a friend unless they paid me in gold. But for my TV, I'm gonna make this bad boy sing!

Here are some pictures of my accomplishments. Even though it took forever, I'm glad I did it because the EOTF is was too bright in the high end at default. It's all jacked up. I'll probably share some setting in this group and the owners thread later.
My point was the 20pt calibration will only slightly improve the PQ over the 2pt if you can see any difference at all with your eyes. Also with the CM process, you are not fighting the tone mapping while you are doing the native calibration.
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post #3043 of 3131 Old 05-10-2019, 10:29 AM
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Sorry but what I posted is correct.
Fine so please explain which bit, in more detail

Quote:
Please in the future when correcting a post make sure you know what you are talking about.
What are you talking about?! I was asking questions and seeking clarification! Which part of this leads you to think I was confident and stating facts? "Sorry for being slow, but I still find that too confusing to understand. This is what I think happens ... How would uploading a unity 3DLUT at any other time... I don't know what this means ..."

For the avoidance of doubt I was not trying to correct you or anyone else. I was stating quite openly that I didn't understand, and asking for more help getting my head around it. That starts with me laying out my current understanding first, so that I can be corrected by others.

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post #3044 of 3131 Old 05-10-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
It can be done, but it's extremely time consuming and laborious. I wouldn't do it for a friend unless they paid me in gold. But for my TV, I'm gonna make this bad boy sing!

Here are some pictures of my accomplishments. Even though it took forever, I'm glad I did it because the EOTF is was too bright in the high end at default. It's all jacked up. I'll probably share some setting in this group and the owners thread later.
My point was the 20pt calibration will only slightly improve the PQ over the 2pt if you can see any difference at all with your eyes. Also with the CM process, you are not fighting the tone mapping while you are doing the native calibration.
Getting the EOTF to line up is very noticable for me. Up to 50 ire your still playing with SDR levels. At default its too dark. Using SDR as an example, that portion of content looks like it's 2.5 gamma when it's supposed to be 2.2. Above 50 ire, and everything is too bright. The spectral highlights get blown out and you miss a lot of detail. At least that's what I've experienced. I like the idea of 3d luts, but I have no idea where to start as I use hcfr. I also can't share the settings, which is a bummer. But I'll do it if it's cheap-ish and I can justify it to my wife.
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post #3045 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 05:17 AM
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Sorry, I was overly blunt. What you posted was a Frequently Asked Question on many threads, not limited to the C8 owner's thread and the Dedicated thread . Barely a day goes by now without someone re-posting similar questions. I didn't mean there is a FAQ which answers it because it's a constantly changing situation - I meant "please read back a few pages"

That said, my answer FWIW. The .31 firmware introduced a new "black crush" on some panels which has got many owners upset. Vincent Teoh has advised owners who are thinking of getting a pro calibration to "hold off" from installing it. The .55 firmware fixed some bugs with ARC and the smooth gradation within "MPEG Noise reduction" which got killed by .31. Several different people have heard from LG that a new firmware is in the works to "fix the gamma curve issue". So we are all waiting to see what the next firmware changes.
No problem, but what I meant was strictly the AutoCal issue introduced, not the global gamma issue everyone is talking about on the owner's thread. Though from posts here it looks like that's not a problem anymore.
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post #3046 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
Getting the EOTF to line up is very noticable for me. Up to 50 ire your still playing with SDR levels. At default its too dark. Using SDR as an example, that portion of content looks like it's 2.5 gamma when it's supposed to be 2.2. Above 50 ire, and everything is too bright. The spectral highlights get blown out and you miss a lot of detail. At least that's what I've experienced. I like the idea of 3d luts, but I have no idea where to start as I use hcfr. I also can't share the settings, which is a bummer. But I'll do it if it's cheap-ish and I can justify it to my wife.
I'm not sure what i'm missing here so just to summarize:

1) If you are using CalMAN or any other software and calibrating HDR just calibrate the HDR 2pt. You are really wasting your time trying to do the 20pt since you will probably introduce errors if it's not done correctly and you will only get a slight improvement.
2) If you are using CalMAN, use HDR autocal. Autocal will put the panel in native 10K 2.2 gamma mode, calibrate the HDR 20pt, and then the set will calculate the HDR offsets where the workflow does a verification. The advantage here is you are calibrating your specific panel bypassing any configuration files from the factory so you will get a perfect EOTF curve and you may wind up with a higher peak luminance than you would have from the factory.

Very simple, works every time.
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post #3047 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 09:56 AM
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2) If you are using CalMAN, use HDR autocal. Autocal will put the panel in native 10K 2.2 gamma mode, calibrate the HDR 20pt, and then the set will calculate the HDR offsets where the workflow does a verification. The advantage here is you are calibrating your specific panel bypassing any configuration files from the factory so you will get a perfect EOTF curve and you may wind up with a higher peak luminance than you would have from the factory.

Very simple, works every time.
With the 2019 models (where you can now tell the panel which peak luminance to use when calculating the EOTF which you couldn't before), then yes you do get a perfect EOTF which tracks PQ correctly.

But I don't believe this is the case with our 2018 models . Andrew Robinson from LG said that you aren't tracking PQ correctly on the 2018 models in his interview.

I think it's in this one, but apologies if it's in a different one - one of the vids uploaded by Mr Value Electronics anyway!
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post #3048 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been using this method to calibrate the 2019 LGs and it works great!

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post #3049 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 10:51 AM
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Hi there,
I managed to connect my LGC8 and I’m trying DisplayCAL with 3dlut. But when I’m trying to upload my 3dlut file using DeviceControl i get wrong file message. What file should I use to make it work?
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post #3050 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronitis View Post
Getting the EOTF to line up is very noticable for me. Up to 50 ire your still playing with SDR levels. At default its too dark. Using SDR as an example, that portion of content looks like it's 2.5 gamma when it's supposed to be 2.2. Above 50 ire, and everything is too bright. The spectral highlights get blown out and you miss a lot of detail. At least that's what I've experienced. I like the idea of 3d luts, but I have no idea where to start as I use hcfr. I also can't share the settings, which is a bummer. But I'll do it if it's cheap-ish and I can justify it to my wife.
I'm not sure what i'm missing here so just to summarize:

1) If you are using CalMAN or any other software and calibrating HDR just calibrate the HDR 2pt. You are really wasting your time trying to do the 20pt since you will probably introduce errors if it's not done correctly and you will only get a slight improvement.
2) If you are using CalMAN, use HDR autocal. Autocal will put the panel in native 10K 2.2 gamma mode, calibrate the HDR 20pt, and then the set will calculate the HDR offsets where the workflow does a verification. The advantage here is you are calibrating your specific panel bypassing any configuration files from the factory so you will get a perfect EOTF curve and you may wind up with a higher peak luminance than you would have from the factory.

Very simple, works every time.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I'm using hcfr, so I don't have access to any autocal features. I'm extremely pleased with my calibration. Calman is way too expensive. The cheapest option on the portrait display website is $2,000.
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post #3051 of 3131 Old 05-12-2019, 02:36 PM
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I'm using hcfr, so I don't have access to any autocal features. I'm extremely pleased with my calibration. Calman is way too expensive. The cheapest option on the portrait display website is $2,000.
CalMAN Home for LG, which gives you Autocal plus manual calibration - whichever you choose to do - is $145. Look on the "consumer software" page.
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post #3052 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 08:18 AM
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Will CalMAN Home for LG support Raspberry Pi B+ with pgenerator software as a signal generator? I did not see it in the supported generator spec.

LeRoy

LG OLED65C8PUA, Onkyo TX-RZ920, Sony UBP-X700, Apple TV 4K, Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K, AT&T Gigabit Internet & U-verse
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post #3053 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post
Will CalMAN Home for LG support Raspberry Pi B+ with pgenerator software as a signal generator? I did not see it in the supported generator spec.



LeRoy


Yes. It connects via mfg: SpectraCal - Model: UPGCI
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post #3054 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 08:49 AM
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Thanks Tyler,

SDR AutoCal here I come. HDR and Dolby Vision are out of reach for now.

LeRoy

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post #3055 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 09:00 AM
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Hi guys,
Is there any way to upload 3dlut to tv ?
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post #3056 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 09:36 AM
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Hi guys,

Is there any way to upload 3dlut to tv ?


Either through calman or there's a program available through lightspace


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post #3057 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 09:46 AM
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Can you name that program please?
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post #3058 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 09:47 AM
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Or you meant LightSpace?
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post #3059 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 12:06 PM
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I think 'DeviceControl' is the program in question to enable LightSpace to be used with LG TVs.
https://www.lightillusion.com/devicecontrol_manual.html

Steve

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post #3060 of 3131 Old 05-13-2019, 12:13 PM
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Thank you Steve,
Is there a free way to upload 3dlut to tv or I have to buy program?
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