2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 106 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3151 of 3627 Old 08-05-2019, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highmr View Post
OK, invalid is strong, but somewhat inaccurate. So, for the somewhat budget enthusiast with a 2018 LG OLED and CalMan (IE no expensive generator device), the information presented makes it unclear whether it is better to use a disk with YCbCR for these LG TVs, or use CalMan with RGB with an inexpensive generator device, given bad RGB conversion in the LG TV. So LG and/or CalMan needs to provide information to support the latter approach, or admit that a more expensive generator is required to improve on the disk method. I haven't seen either.
For an accurate calibration you have to be on the top of the chain. So, if you play from a BD, then BD patterns are the the best.
Worth to note that @ConnecTEDDD does not say that, but limits his factual description to HDMI related issues.
Said that, to contribute to your point, I note that differences in Ted's graphs between RGB and YCbCr are significant, but somehow marginal (Good dE2000 in both cases).

So, if you are, a basic enthusiast, I would suggest you to crosscheck calibration outcomes with a BD (little investment), and then deciding if you can survive with that. And in this crosschecking I would include the verification of a a manual calibration, as, as you certainly know, autocal with an inaccurate meter resuts in an unaccurate calibration. And for this last, you can judge only based on your eyes.



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post #3152 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Looks like that there additional features of Expert Controls Menu (Dynamic Contrast, White Balance, CMS etc.) which will require more complex processing so for the TV to significantly reduce the bandwidth and the required processing power it will compress the horizontal chroma resolution in half; chroma subsampling from YCbCr 4:4:4 -> YCbCr 4:2:2; as this will reduce by 33.3% the video data bandwidth.

I believe this is the reason why these OLED TV's will not display full chroma (YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB-Video) with PC Icon enabled (of HDMI Input) from 24p/30p/50p input signal but only with 60p signal where all the Expert Control menu controls are disabled, so the video signal will bypass that 'Expert Controls Menu' processing step.
Hi Ted! Really interesting writeup as usual.
Are you sure that we don't have chroma 4:4:4 in PC mode using all available refresh rate? (I have a B8, PC is connected to it in full range, 10bit, RGB).
I tested it with couple of images, and the desktop is sometimes visible. (Note that I had previously an LG 55LD650 CCFL LCD that couldn't display 4:4:4 even at 60p either (probably 4:2:2), not to mention 23p , so I know how it looks like.)

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post #3153 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
So in summary: Ted wants you to buy his pattern disc, and buy his calibration software instead of CalMAN.
Don't worry, there are still things you can do only with Calman

Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Hi Ted! Really interesting writeup as usual.
Are you sure that we don't have chroma 4:4:4 in PC mode using all available refresh rate? (I have a B8, PC is connected to it in full range, 10bit, RGB).
I tested it with couple of images, and the desktop is sometimes visible. (Note that I had previously an LG 55LD650 CCFL LCD that couldn't display 4:4:4 even at 60p either (probably 4:2:2), not to mention 23p , so I know how it looks like.)
I have also done some test with my Muriddeo PG and I confirm it works with all refresh rates. Among Expert control, only White balancing and Gamma were there and in Truemotioin you could play only with BFI.
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post #3154 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 11:02 AM
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First of all, you can't perform internal LUT 1D or 3D LUT using a calibration disk, Ted is not saying that.

Because content for home release of SDR is always encoded with YCbCr, when your player will stream it, you will have a signal processing video path which will not include the converion of RGB -> YCbCr you have when you send RGB-Video patches.

So he recommends when you have an external reference generator like the DVDO or AccuPel, where you have option to send accurate both YCbCr or RGB-Video, to select YCbCr there, because it will better and it will avoid that small difference due to difference in processing steps of input signal.

There no 'bad RGB' conversion, there multiple conversions (RGB <-> YCbCr) internally to the display until the signal to go to the panel, so when you have count them all by your calibration, you're picture quality will be improved.

This is exactly what Ted is saying, to use the same colorspace as your player use during content playback.

He is always informing the AVSForum with so deep technical stuff no-one else from any company has ever provide.

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post #3155 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 11:55 AM
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What I always do is to run any calibration and then check the xyY values for white and all the primaries and secondaries with Ted's Bluray Disc to make sure they are all within range. I sometimes use Lightspace connect and sometimes, RPI and sometimes the laptop with the TV as the extended display.
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post #3156 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 02:08 PM
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Just as a side note, we've been working with a high-end professional calibrator testing the new Hybrid mode on the range of LG displays with LUT capability.
(He's been working on both SDR and HDR for a number of high-end post facilities.)

The results he's been getting are looking really good - some of the best we have seen.
Interestingly, his results have been without Drift working with Hybrid mode, as that was broken...
We've just fixed that, and a new download is available (as Ted has posted on the LightSpace thread).

Even within the few minutes the new build has been available, we are already seeing yet more improvements in the LG calibration results

All these new developments can be attributed direct to our work with Flanders Scientific, as they have been performing a lot of calibration experiments on their professional WOLEDs, and the results have been the cause of the new modes, including Augment, Hybrid, and Hint.

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post #3157 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 02:40 PM
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Hmm, I wonder if LightSpace can correct for calibration through jaded vision?

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post #3158 of 3627 Old 08-06-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobhc2010 View Post
Hmm, I wonder if LightSpace can correct for calibration through jaded vision?
I have to say, as a professional I really struggle to like HDR.
I get the concept, obviously, but as for bringing something to the party, I just can't convince myself that it's really worth it - especially with all the issues associated with actually calibrating it (without getting a 30K professional display).
To a degree, I understand HLG more than PQ...

So yes, jaded vision -

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post #3159 of 3627 Old 08-07-2019, 06:04 AM
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Several off topic posts removed.

Infractions are being issued for off-topic posts from this point forward.

Get back to the topic.
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post #3160 of 3627 Old 08-07-2019, 03:34 PM
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I have a LG OLED and I realized that something is not lining up between CalMAN Guide for LG, CalMAN video for LG and Ted's destription about what is Lightning LUT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
2) Lightning LUT, CalMAN measure 101 patches which are 26-Point Grayscale and 25-Point of Luminance of Red, Green, Blue @ 100% Saturation only, so again you have zero volumetric calibration, you calibrated the 100% Saturation (edge of gamut) but with 25-Point of Luminance levels.
Ted says 25x3 + 26 = 101
Video of calman software says (and my software says the same) 26x4 (which sum 104) but counted as 101
Guide says 65x4 = 260 or 75x4 = 300

So who is technical correct and are there 101 or 104 colors?

References:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
LG
From the LG video guide:
Time 12:21

While the same time the only quide available for Lightning LUT describes as in picture 1

It shows for 65 or 75 WRGB, but the sum of these don't add to 101 and there is no setting to select 65 or 75 either.
Calman software (see picture 2) and the guide are incorrect.

https://kb.portrait.com/help/3d-lut-types
The guide is this link and it is updated on April 2, 2019.
The video is from June 2019.
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post #3161 of 3627 Old 08-07-2019, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neverwish View Post
I have a LG OLED and I realized that something is not lining up between CalMAN Guide for LG, CalMAN video for LG and Ted's destription about what is Lightning LUT.







Ted says 25x3 + 26 = 101

Video of calman software says (and my software says the same) 26x4 (which sum 104) but counted as 101

Guide says 65x4 = 260 or 75x4 = 300



So who is technical correct and are there 101 or 104 colors?



References:







From the LG video guide:

https://youtu.be/cO4mearXKRI?t=741

Time 12:21



While the same time the only quide available for Lightning LUT describes as in picture 1



It shows for 65 or 75 WRGB, but the sum of these don't add to 101 and there is no setting to select 65 or 75 either.

Calman software (see picture 2) and the guide are incorrect.



https://kb.portrait.com/help/3d-lut-types

The guide is this link and it is updated on April 2, 2019.

The video is from June 2019.


25x4 + black

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post #3162 of 3627 Old 08-08-2019, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
25x4 + black
25x4 + black, isn't that same as 25x3 + 26?
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post #3163 of 3627 Old 08-08-2019, 01:03 AM
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25xWRGB+Black is the same as 26GS + 25xRGB which is the same as “Ted is right”. So for the Aristotelian syllogism (if A=B and B=C then A=C) Tyler just wrote that Ted is right. Peace, finally.

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post #3164 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 07:45 AM
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FOR HDR OLED (specifically LG C8): What are the remediable reasons why a calibration may NOT give the most optimised response. ( if someone has this list then please do repost it or direct me) - otherwise it would be good to have a running list we can collate from everyones experience. If i had this list when i started calibration it would have saved me tons of time from falling into traps.

My list so far for reasons for poor calibration (Calibration Chupacabras )
  • not warming the tv up for at least 30 mins
  • not switching the autodim or energy save off
  • using a meter not profiled using a spectrophotometer
  • using meter mode of RAW instead of OLED
  • sync error with the meter causing visibly strange 'calibrated' picture
  • erroneously using JUDD VOSS white point on the LGC8 rather than D65 (I understand Judd Voss is not appicalble to C8)
  • Not using the default autocal settings for 1d lut
  • Trying to use anything other than BT2020 and DCI-P3 primaries for the matrix LUT calibration
  • using any other 3dLUT system other than Matrix
  • Not power cycling the TV at the end of calibration
  • Reasons why HDR mode does not trigger
  • wrong AV infoframe for the input type (RGB / YCBCr etc)
  • metadata not getting injected correctly from HDFury due to EDID or HDCP failure or not set to be permanently on
  • trying to use too high resolution at the expense of colour depth (ie trying to use 4k instead of 1080p)

Please be precise with additions (devil and detail) and by all means correct this list.

thanks,

Last edited by DrDon; 08-09-2019 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Off topic content removed.
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post #3165 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amitabh Dwivedi View Post
[*]not switching the autodim or energy save off
Lets not forget that current sets have at least 3 ABL algo!

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post #3166 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 08:20 AM
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Thanks thats a good point and for the link. But what do calibrators do that make the 3 or more ABL algos mess up our calibration for HDR that we can avoid, I only know of using 5,5,25 frame insertion in calman and switching off auto dim and taking power saving mode off.
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post #3167 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amitabh Dwivedi View Post
Thanks thats a good point and for the link. But what do calibrators do that make the 3 or more ABL algos mess up our calibration for HDR that we can avoid, I only know of using 5,5,25 frame insertion in calman and switching off auto dim and taking power saving mode off.
That's pretty much it.

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post #3168 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 08:53 AM
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From the link:
Quote:
The display only can be profiled (creating a 3dlut) using SDR content!!!
That is actually not correct.
At least with the LGs we've played with, via DeviceControl and LightSpace
You can use any LUT, generated in any way.
(And I am actually sure that is true with Calamn too...)

The reason for the 'supposed' restriction, from what I can see, is that profiling a WOLED in HDR mode, and generating a 3D LUT from it is unlikely to produce viable results, due to the instability of the LG in HDR mode, and the restrictions with the profiling modes in the likes of Calman.

We have actually been able to generate 'acceptable' results with the Drift/Stabilisation tools built into LightSpace.
But, the instability of the LG TV is a real issue in HDR mode.

More tests need to be performed with different Drift/Stabilisation configurations, to determine what the best setups would be.

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post #3169 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amitabh Dwivedi View Post
My list so far for reasons for poor calibration (Calibration Chupacabras )
  • Trying to use anything other than BT2020 and DCI-P3 primaries for the matrix LUT calibration
Which one, of those two, we we saying is correct? You can only calibrate to one, and the standard is BT2020, not DCI-P3?

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post #3170 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 11:20 AM
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Use raw mode or raw mode + self created profile.

Do not use the oled (rgb) mode.

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post #3171 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Use raw mode or raw mode + self created profile.

Do not use the oled (rgb) mode.
To add; If Oled mode is the outcome of an EDR taken on your/similar pannel, i.e. WRGB Oled, it gives better results than raw mode (see here) and in general, I don't see any reason for using it also as base for a profiling. To tell that starting from Raw allows for transportability between calibration program (EDR cannot be ported, FCCM can)


PS: I know for sure LS and HCFR have such a mode. AFAIK from Ted, that's not the case for Calman, but Mr. Calman might clarify if I am wrong.

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post #3172 of 3627 Old 08-09-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
To add; If Oled mode is the outcome of an EDR taken on your/similar pannel, i.e. WRGB Oled, it gives better results than raw mode (see here) and in general, I don't see any reason for using it also as base for a profiling. To tell that starting from Raw allows for transportability between calibration program (EDR cannot be ported, FCCM can)


PS: I know for sure LS and HCFR have such a mode. AFAIK from Ted, that's not the case for Calman, but Mr. Calman might clarify if I am wrong.


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post #3173 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Hey all.

I am not sure if this is the right/best thread to post this in but I do have an LG C8 so I figure it's a good place to start. I apologize now that this may get a little long. I am hoping to get some opinions, insight, and knowledge on something that has been weighing on my mind.

I have a C8 65 inch OLED. I have had it about 8 months now and it's my first OLED and first 4K TV. I had it professionally calibrated this week, something I once upon a time thought I would never do, then changed my mind and became very excited about. It's my calibration session that I want to talk about. I want to know if what I experienced is "wrong" and if I basically am missing something.

Before my calibration, I read up and watched videos on the subject. I'd say my expectations were primarily set by this video. I found it very interesting and informative, not to mention a nice bonus that my same TV model is being calibrated in the video.

Let me say that I have no doubt my calibrator was knowledgeable and knew what he was doing. The guy must have 30+ years experience in audio and video. So definitely an experienced man. We spend 5+ hours on my calibration when all said and done so there was definitely time invested. (I have not spoke to him about any of the concern that have been in my head, it's not something I feel comfortable doing -- at least not yet.)

I hate to do it, but for ease of writing this I am going to list out the things that didn't happen, or happened different than I expected. (Again, largely based on the video above.) I realize of course that every calibrator will do things differently, but I just want to know if something was outright not done than should of been, or needs to be.

1. He did not do what I think is called a Color Gamut profile on my TV. It's something as I understand it takes about 90 minutes to do at 3500 "Points." He said he has my same TV at home and had gotten the profile off that. Is that acceptable?

2. At no point did he put up any test patterns from a disc like spears and Munsil and adjust anything manually. Things like contrast, sharpness, brightness, etc. This is probably the item I have been dwelling on the most as it didn't occur to me until later after he had left.

A few notes about item 2. I skimmed and re-watched the video above before writing this post. A few things I did not recall until I saw it again on the video: At least according to that calibrator, sharpness, brightness, etc, only seems to need to be adjusted by "eye" in a bright room environment. In my home, my TV is in the living room but I have curtains to make the room very dark, even in broad daylight. I did tell my calibrator than when I watch a movie, I will have it dark. My family will also use the same TV, in a bright room but they frankly are not going to know or care if the settings are accurate. So many he didn't do that simply because it wasn't going to apply to my personal viewing environment?

While my calibrator did not use any test patterns, he DID play multiple specific scenes from multiple movies from both Blu-ray and 4K movies. Perhaps he just used those and determined my settings such as brightness, contrast, etc simply needed no adjustment?


If I am being completely honest, I actually bought the new S&M UHD disc shortly before deciding to get my TV Pro Calibrated so it's not like I can't pop it in and tweak some settings up or down a few clicks if needed. I guess part of me just feels I shouldn't have to. (Though, again, it's entirely possible I don't need to.)


So it turns out those 2 points were all I had. I thought it was more. I should probably mention that I do think my TV looks great, though to be fair I have not had a chance to really watch anything since the calibration. But the demo material we watched looked undoubtedly great.

I've literally lost sleep thinking about all this so I wanted to get it out there and get some thoughts and opinions. Thank you!


Edit. Hello again. It just occurred to me that I don't think we did my SDR Bright room calibration when my room was actually bright. I know we did it and it has roughly double the luminance as my dark room SDR calibration. But is that...right? Doesn't the calibration need to be done in the room environment it's intended for so all the settings can be set based on ambient conditions? I asked him about it and he mentioned that my bright mode doubled my light output and he said “ The bright room setting are a convenience mode not a video standard.”


While I am re-posting, I am having a hard time getting my mind around calibration and what it really can and can't do. It's mean to fix issues with your picture but can only do so much correct? So what is the limiting factor? The shortcomings of the display? So then a calibration can't always "Fix" everything?

Case in point, my Dolby Vision after calibration still has a peak in the black range. I don't know how big a deal this actually is or what it means for content. I know delta errors below 3 are fine so this one is borderline.

My comments (as enthusiast willing to enter the calibrator market space)

  1. The issue with gamut profile is that it takes time and it needs to be validated. You may have artefacts you can see only on specific patterns/real contents and have on teh other side, perfect measurements. And if it is not Ok you have to repeat the whole process. On the other side what comes with your TV (Default LUT) allows for a good calibration. So yes, it is acceptable.
  2. There are basic characteristics of out TV you don't need to re-check with S&M. Your calibrator should be already aware of them. Furthermore he has our same TV at home.
  3. I understand from your words you would have preferred to a dark room calibration. Many people find it too dark. Yes, for that you have standard, on the opposite of the bright room case. To have an idea of its vision, try the Technicolor mode at its default (to be more on line with standard you have to change color temperature to warm2). I guess there has been a misscommunication issue, i.e. your willing was not so clear to him. Furthermore calibrators, with an extra, are available to calibrate more modes.
  4. Precalibration (dark, black clipping, contrast) should be done in the chosen environment. Measurement in a dark room, or using appropriate tools.
  5. Yes, you can play with S&M. I would not reccommend to change your calibrated TV settings, but you can do some comparisons by coping your calibrated mode settings to an other expert mode and from them doing some side to side comparison during vision.
  6. Calibration can get the best of your TV in the chosen environment. Cannot be 100% perfect. With a 30K$ studio monitor you are closer to perfection.
  7. About your Dolby Vision graph. There is a little more luminance at 05 IRE. This should result into better near black details. The RGB balance (color) is good. Be also aware that the meter used (C6) is inaccurate at low luminance. So whatch DVcontents focusing on near black areas and judge your self.

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post #3174 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
CalMAN supports RAW XYZ for both i1 Display Pro and C6
Tyler, many thanks for you answer.

My post was surely hermetic, but I am interested to know whether Calman supports any EDR (spectral sample) taken on WRGB OLED pannel

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post #3175 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Looks like that there additional features of Expert Controls Menu (Dynamic Contrast, White Balance, CMS etc.) which will require more complex processing so for the TV to significantly reduce the bandwidth and the required processing power it will compress the horizontal chroma resolution in half; chroma subsampling from YCbCr 4:4:4 -> YCbCr 4:2:2; as this will reduce by 33.3% the video data bandwidth.

I believe this is the reason why these OLED TV's will not display full chroma (YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB-Video) with PC Icon enabled (of HDMI Input) from 24p/30p/50p input signal but only with 60p signal where all the Expert Control menu controls are disabled, so the video signal will bypass that 'Expert Controls Menu' processing step.
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Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Hi Ted! Really interesting writeup as usual.
Are you sure that we don't have chroma 4:4:4 in PC mode using all available refresh rate? (I have a B8, PC is connected to it in full range, 10bit, RGB).
I tested it with couple of images, and the desktop is sometimes visible. (Note that I had previously an LG 55LD650 CCFL LCD that couldn't display 4:4:4 even at 60p either (probably 4:2:2), not to mention 23p , so I know how it looks like.)
Actually Ted *was* right! I double checked it and it's visible on the yellow and the bottom row text of Quick brown fox image.
I updated my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
That is actually not correct. At least with the LGs we've played with, via DeviceControl and LightSpace You can use any LUT, generated in any way.
...
The reason for the 'supposed' restriction, from what I can see, is that profiling a WOLED in HDR mode, and generating a 3D LUT from it is unlikely to produce viable results, due to the instability of the LG in HDR mode, and the restrictions with the profiling modes in the likes of Calman.
...
But, the instability of the LG TV is a real issue in HDR mode.
That was my point. I added "reliably" word into that section. Thanks for reading!
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post #3176 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
.
......When you calibrate 3D LUT, in HDR10 you have 1 option:

Matrix LUT, where CalMAN measure 5 patches (Black, White, 100% Saturation with 100% Luminance of Red, Green, Blue) and from these measurements in creates a 3x3 matrix where its using a 33-Point LUT as contained (wrapper), zero volumetric calibration, so you calibrate only 100% Saturation (edges of gamut).
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
.........


The reason for the 'supposed' restriction, from what I can see, is that profiling a WOLED in HDR mode, and generating a 3D LUT from it is unlikely to produce viable results, due to the instability of the LG in HDR mode, and the restrictions with the profiling modes in the likes of Calman.

We have actually been able to generate 'acceptable' results with the Drift/Stabilisation tools built into LightSpace.
But, the instability of the LG TV is a real issue in HDR mode.

More tests need to be performed with different Drift/Stabilisation configurations, to determine what the best setups would be.

Steve
I was quite puzzled from @ConnecTEDDD infos about Calman HDR calibration. For sure a 3DLUT is needed after an1DLUT calibration (LG TV "limit"), but limiting its characterisation to the least deep cube is solving stability issue? And the price you have to pay for Gray Scale Autocal pays for the poor quality you have on colors? It looks to me the manual calibration is for HDR a better choice.


PS: Is anybody aware whether that is also true for DV. I know a text with gamut measurements is uploaded, so the original 3DLUT should not be rigenerated.

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Not sure I am following your questions fully?

But, any 'matrix' calibration is not at all volumetric, so will not be a 'LUT' based calibration.
(Generating a LUT from a matrix doesn't make it a LUT, it just holds the matrix in a LUT.)
It is just a restriction of gamut, with all volumetric issues still present.

From what I have been told, you can use Calamn to do a 3D LUT for HDR, but the results are appalling.
(This from a renowned calibrator, who has tried this, as he pointed out to me there actually is no restriction on having to use a matrix...)

And 'Autocal' is basically a manual calibration of the 'managed' points.
(Autocal is a guesswork based iterative process where a guessed change is made, the result re-measured, and another guess change made, and so on. That is why it takes so long, and uses so meany measurements)
Assuming you have manual access to the same points, you will 9 times out of 10 do better manually.
And with the errors the Autocal often introduces, you may even do better with a limited manual calibration, rather than using Autocal.

Also, if you change the 1D LUT, you must re-do the 3D - matrix generated, or not.

Steve

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post #3178 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Not sure I am following your questions fully?

But, any 'matrix' calibration is not at all volumetric, so will not be a 'LUT' based calibration.
(Generating a LUT from a matrix doesn't make it a LUT, it just holds the matrix in a LUT.)
It is just a restriction of gamut, with all volumetric issues still present.

From what I have been told, you can use Calamn to do a 3D LUT for HDR, but the results are appalling.
(This from a renowned calibrator, who has tried this, as he pointed out to me there actually is no restriction on having to use a matrix...)

And 'Autocal' is basically a manual calibration of the 'managed' points.
(Autocal is a guesswork based iterative process where a guessed change is made, the result re-measured, and another guess change made, and so on. That is why it takes so long, and uses so meany measurements)
Assuming you have manual access to the same points, you will 9 times out of 10 do better manually.
And with the errors the Autocal often introduces, you may even do better with a limited manual calibration, rather than using Autocal.

Also, if you change the 1D LUT, you must re-do the 3D - matrix generated, or not.

Steve
Steve as someone who professional calibrates and uses CalMAN, for now, I wanted to share my experiences. I agree 100% on the HDR LUT which is why they only recommend using the Matirx calculation. From my experience, even the Matrix can sometimes correct a set that's out of spec or at least make it a little better. A lot of work needs to be done here.

As for the gray scale, for HDR you can just do a 2pt calibration and get pretty good results but the 20pt will be better and you get pretty good results with Autocal if you have it set up properly. Can you do better manually? Yes of course but the time involved might not be worth it. Especially for Dolby Vision. I used to calibrate that 20pt gray scale manually and it was torture. Now Autocal can do it relatively quickly, accurately and consistently, again if you have it set up properly.

All that said, I agree, I see Autocal find an optimal setting for a given read then every once in a while it selects and finalizes on a setting that's worse. I have no idea what it's doing and sometimes you just need to re-run it in order to get a better result. As a former programmer I don't believe it's that difficult these days to write an Autocal program that has more intelligence. My guess is they have adopted some old software to work with the newer sets.

For an Enthusiast or someone who has a lot of time to calibrate all these picture modes manually you can get slightly better results but if you are in someone's home, have a fixed amount of time and cost, at least for the LG where the customer usually wants and requires all these PM's calibrated, Autocal with a manual tweak can be a useful tool.

Just sharing my experience on the topic since I mostly calibrate these LGs.
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post #3179 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 10:21 AM
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Now Autocal can do it relatively quickly, accurately and consistently, again if you have it set up properly.
Agreed. "Quick" with your meter, but not mine of course

Quote:
All that said, I agree, I see Autocal find an optimal setting for a given read then every once in a while it selects and finalizes on a setting that's worse. I have no idea what it's doing and sometimes you just need to re-run it in order to get a better result. As a former programmer I don't believe it's that difficult these days to write an Autocal program that has more intelligence. My guess is they have adopted some old software to work with the newer sets.
^^This. When you have an almost perfect autocal (that I couldn't have done manually myself in a million years) and then it suddenly ruins one single point and decides than a massive error is "fine", it's both bewildering and frustrating. Tweaking manually with DDC after the event is possible (but it's only working around a bug) and not easy, particularly with drift. Re-running the entire autocal - all because of that bug - is the only other option, and takes a lot of time.
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post #3180 of 3627 Old 08-10-2019, 10:53 AM
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The Videoforge Pro manual suggests changing the Mastering Display Max Luminance to 540 for OLEDs for HDR10 calibration. Is this true for the C8? My understanding is that the C8 can get a peak brightness of around ~700nits. I can't seem to find any information on what this setting actually does.
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