2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 115 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3421 of 3727 Old 09-20-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
If I want to change the White Point, eg to LG/Dolby's perceptual CRT matched one (x=0.308 y=0.313), I definitely need to do the 1DLUT, I can't skip it can I? But once that's done and I only want to re-do the 3DLUT for that Picture Mode, I can keep my own alternate-WP 1DLUT next time?

You have two choices:
- reset/reprogram the 1DLUT and loose the manual WP controls (these will be grayed out in the user menu and none of the EZ-ADJUST presets will be active, so 192,192,192)
- keep the LG factory 1DLUT and keep the access to the manual WP controls
You can use any custom WP either ways.
You can keep the factory 1DLUT and either leave the WP unchanged or set the WP in the user menu (or in EZ-ADJUST). Or you can use the 1DLUT to reach your desired WP. But you can even leave the 1DLUT at neutral (aka "unity") if you plan to use the 3DLUT (that one targets a WP as well).

Any change to the WP, OLED Light or 1DLUT invalidates the 3DLUT but you can always keep the 1DLUT (and user menu / EZ-ADJUST WP settings) and upload a new 3DLUT (as long as the 1DLUT is something sane for the desired results).

Think of these as layers. You can always touch the top layer alone but you have to remove the upper one to mess with the lower one (and an old top will no longer fit an altered bottom).
But basically the top layer decides everything. Just don't make such a mess form the bottom one that it can't possibly hold the top one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
And any time I want to change the WP, it's a re-do of the 1DLUT. Is that right?
Not necessarily. That's the theoretically optimal way but you can use any fresh arbitrary targets for the new 3DLUT while keeping the old 1DLUT.

So, if you want some quick experiments with custom white point or tone response curve targets, I suggest either keeping the factory 1DUT or resetting it (but not calibrating it) and creating some quick 3DLUTs on top.
Once you decided about your targets it's probably better to calibrate the 1DLUT to the desired WP and TRC (and of course finish with a fresh 3DLUT). But it's not necessary (to change the 1DLUT).
ConnecTEDDD often mentioned that some LG TVs have banding with neutral 1DLUTs. I didn't personally notice that but you might want to check for yourself on your unit. In that case it's probably best to keep the factory 1DLUT.
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post #3422 of 3727 Old 09-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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Many thanks @janos666 for explaining it very clearly Last weekend I did a 1D and 3D on SDR Cinema, in fact it's the only Mode I currently have with my own LUTs in since my last factory reset. So I could easily replace that with different top layer 3DLUTs and experiment as you say.

I've filled in your layers analogy into this summary table, hopefully it is correct and useful.



(I imagine that a unity 1DLUT and a Matrix 3DLUT would be "interesting"!)
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post #3423 of 3727 Old 09-21-2019, 04:49 AM
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Hi,

From what I am now understanding, 2018 and 2019 models tonemap to 700nits. According to this video (LG's Neil Robinson at CES), oled light should be reduced to 700 nits for more accurate PQ tracking -

If I am just doing a simple 2-point high correction, should I be lowering oled light to 700 nits? Currently mine measures 740 nits with oled light at 100 (10% window). Everywhere I read it says not to touch oled light at all.
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post #3424 of 3727 Old 09-21-2019, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Hi,

From what I am now understanding, 2018 and 2019 models tonemap to 700nits. According to this video (LG's Neil Robinson at CES), oled light should be reduced to 700 nits for more accurate PQ tracking - https://youtu.be/wxMQLzJvr4A?t=172

If I am just doing a simple 2-point high correction, should I be lowering oled light to 700 nits? Currently mine measures 740 nits with oled light at 100 (10% window). Everywhere I read it says not to touch oled light at all.
Only on the 2018 LG. With the 2019 LG you can re-create the tone mapping based on your panels peak brightness and load them to the TV. That's the new feature they are talking about in the video.
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post #3425 of 3727 Old 09-21-2019, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Only on the 2018 LG. With the 2019 LG you can re-create the tone mapping based on your panels peak brightness and load them to the TV. That's the new feature they are talking about in the video.
Thanks, I have a C8. So I'm good just reducing oled light? I've seen others talking about reducing RGB high to get to 700 nits. Which method is better/ correct? And if using DTM, is reducing to 700 nits worth it, or better to keep the additional brightness?

Thanks again.

Last edited by iSeries; 09-21-2019 at 05:36 AM.
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post #3426 of 3727 Old 09-21-2019, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Thanks, I have a C8. So I'm good just reducing oled light? I've seen others talking about reducing RGB high to get to 700 nits. Which method is better/ correct?
Unknown. In this post https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58518300
about Dolby Vision, ConnecTEDDD advises not to change OLED Light (must be at 50) and use the RGB-gain in the SM to try to hit 700 nits.

In this post https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58532190
ConnecTEDDD suggests trying the original method (use the RGB-gain in the SM to balance RGB at the panel's natural peak brightness) and then changing OLED Light to hit 700 nits. And specifically says to see which one works best.

When I tried, I found that the instability of the panel swamped anything I was doing: for a normal reading (black screen, 10% peak white patch, reading, back to black) I found OLED Light ~=95 got me 710 nits, and ~=94 got me 690ish nits.

But when I left the patch up and did a "read continuous", it rose and rose, and rose, and my original OLED Light=100 which was 746 nits rose up to 795 nits over a period of about 1 minute.

Quote:
And if using DTM, is reducing to 700 nits worth it, or better to keep the additional brightness?
My personal view now is that since
a) there's not much colour accuracy above ~400 nits because of the White sub-pixel
b) high-nit content is normally uses for fleeting highlights

... then I just want as bright as possible, let the tone-mapping (which is only above 70% anyway) be "a bit wrong" to give me the extra impact instead. As long as it tracks PQ accurately up to 70%, I can't see any downsides. Happy to be coached where I'm wrong though.
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post #3427 of 3727 Old 09-21-2019, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
... let the tone-mapping (which is only above 70% anyway) be "a bit wrong" to give me the extra impact instead
Thanks mrtickle. I won't worry about being higher than 700 nits. In the case of a simple 2 point high adjustment for HDR10 greyscale, what's the ideal brightness window to measure do you think, 70% white? 65%?

Last edited by iSeries; 09-21-2019 at 07:32 AM.
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post #3428 of 3727 Old 09-21-2019, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
Thanks mrtickle. I won't worry about being higher than 700 nits. In the case of a simple 2 point high adjustment for HDR10 greyscale, what's the ideal brightness window to measure do you think, 70% white? 65%?
I'm not qualified to speculate on that one! But AFAIK you're not supposed to touch the bottom point. Only the top. I just kept reading the whole scale between adjustments!

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post #3429 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 03:06 AM
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I have set HDR RGB Low to R=+1, G=0, B=+2. (High R=0, G=-4, B=-5).

What side effetcs will I have to expect? What should I am looking for?

Suprisingly HDR RGB low/high are identical to the values I would have to set for SDR.

Warm regards,
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post #3430 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Indeed. I've since found something after I'd given up so I do actually have one more thing to try. I can't remember where I got it, but I have an exe called "madLevelsTweaker.exe" which calls itself "NVidia & Intel RGB levels Tweaker" from inside MadVR.zip. In my case though even though I know I have cleared ICCs and am resetting the video card gamma to be flat, something in the pipe line keeps changing the values after a few seconds.
I've now tried that "one more thing", and it worked! Actually there were two differences between what I did before. In case it helps someone:
  • Calman Client 3 set to "Bypass", with "bypass LUT" ticked (it wasn't on previous tries - I had quit it before. This time I left it running).
  • Ran madLevelsTweaker.exe, dragged to TV, unticked, re-ticked, rebooted.
  • Followed Liberator72's advice, ignore Worflow instructions: when it asks to change the Mode/Metadata to "ABSOLUTE" in the source settings, ignore this and then set "Dolby Vision Relative Override" option.
  • On Verification page (red/yellow square), go to HDFury app and paste in the DV Infoframe.
  • TV switched to Dolby vision mode!
  • Once kicked into DV mode you can change back and forth between Absolute/Relative Metadata as required for calibration/verification.
  • Pre-calib readings massively off.
  • Changed to "Dolby Vision RGB Tunneling", re-read. Readings looked better.
  • But, I really should have used Absolute at that point. I realised at the end, so my "pre-cal" records are wrong.

Key thing was for me: source settings need to be "relative" before sending the DV Infoframe to kick the TV into DV mode.

Woo hoo!

Of course I didn't touch the 1DLUT. I only did the dolby config file part. It created two files.

DolbyVision_UserDisplayConfiguration.txt
Code:
# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.1.93 on Sun 22 Sep 2019
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version: 
PictureMode = 2
Tmax = 767.285864176409
Tmin = 0.0584981874024893
Tgamma = 2.2
ColorPrimaries = 0.6767 0.3218 0.2564 0.6783 0.1435 0.0508 0.3127 0.3290
TLMS2RGBmat = 4.13278785827531 -3.25438374754227 0.12159588926696 -0.915692432990774 2.05735316734118 -0.141660734350405 0.0552561805226776 -0.131072834622251 1.07581665409957
DolbyVision_UserDisplayConfiguration_2019.txt
Code:
# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.1.93 on Sun 22 Sep 2019
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version: 
[PictureMode = 2]
Tmax = 767.285864176409
Tmin = 0.0584981874024893
Tgamma = 2.2
TPrimaries = 0.6767 0.3218 0.2564 0.6783 0.1435 0.0508 0.3127 0.3290
I uploaded the first one to the TV, but there was no guidance on which one to select.

Also, FYI @WiFi-Spy - the workflow tells you it's going to measure black, white, r, g, b. That's wrong. It measures cyan, magenta and yellow as well.
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post #3431 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I've now tried that "one more thing", and it worked! Actually there were two differences between what I did before. In case it helps someone:
  • Calman Client 3 set to "Bypass", with "bypass LUT" ticked (it wasn't on previous tries - I had quit it before. This time I left it running).
  • Ran madLevelsTweaker.exe, dragged to TV, unticked, re-ticked, rebooted.
  • Followed Liberator72's advice, ignore Worflow instructions: when it asks to change the Mode/Metadata to "ABSOLUTE" in the source settings, ignore this and then set "Dolby Vision Relative Override" option.
  • On Verification page (red/yellow square), go to HDFury app and paste in the DV Infoframe.
  • TV switched to Dolby vision mode!
  • Once kicked into DV mode you can change back and forth between Absolute/Relative Metadata as required for calibration/verification.
  • Pre-calib readings massively off.
  • Changed to "Dolby Vision RGB Tunneling", re-read. Readings looked better.
  • But, I really should have used Absolute at that point. I realised at the end, so my "pre-cal" records are wrong.

Key thing was for me: source settings need to be "relative" before sending the DV Infoframe to kick the TV into DV mode.

Woo hoo!

Of course I didn't touch the 1DLUT. I only did the dolby config file part. It created two files.

DolbyVision_UserDisplayConfiguration.txt
Code:
# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.1.93 on Sun 22 Sep 2019
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version: 
PictureMode = 2
Tmax = 767.285864176409
Tmin = 0.0584981874024893
Tgamma = 2.2
ColorPrimaries = 0.6767 0.3218 0.2564 0.6783 0.1435 0.0508 0.3127 0.3290
TLMS2RGBmat = 4.13278785827531 -3.25438374754227 0.12159588926696 -0.915692432990774 2.05735316734118 -0.141660734350405 0.0552561805226776 -0.131072834622251 1.07581665409957
DolbyVision_UserDisplayConfiguration_2019.txt
Code:
# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.1.93 on Sun 22 Sep 2019
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version: 
[PictureMode = 2]
Tmax = 767.285864176409
Tmin = 0.0584981874024893
Tgamma = 2.2
TPrimaries = 0.6767 0.3218 0.2564 0.6783 0.1435 0.0508 0.3127 0.3290
I uploaded the first one to the TV, but there was no guidance on which one to select.

Also, FYI @WiFi-Spy - the workflow tells you it's going to measure black, white, r, g, b. That's wrong. It measures cyan, magenta and yellow as well.
For the 2018 LG use the file without the 2019 in the file name. Verification readings should always be in DV Absolute mode. Relative will give you inaccurate readings since it's meant to be used when calibrating the gray scale.
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post #3432 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
For the 2018 LG use the file without the 2019 in the file name. Verification readings should always be in DV Absolute mode. Relative will give you inaccurate readings since it's meant to be used when calibrating the gray scale.
Thanks, makes sense. So "Relative" is the "panel native gamma 2.2" mode - also used for the DV "profile" part too?
I realised too late that I should have been in Absolute mode for the earlier readings. I'll re-test it later and this time see if it works with Calman controlling the HDFury.
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post #3433 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^^
Yes

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post #3434 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I've now tried that "one more thing", and it worked! Actually there were two differences between what I did before. In case it helps someone:
  • Calman Client 3 set to "Bypass", with "bypass LUT" ticked (it wasn't on previous tries - I had quit it before. This time I left it running).
  • Ran madLevelsTweaker.exe, dragged to TV, unticked, re-ticked, rebooted.
  • Followed Liberator72's advice, ignore Worflow instructions: when it asks to change the Mode/Metadata to "ABSOLUTE" in the source settings, ignore this and then set "Dolby Vision Relative Override" option.
  • On Verification page (red/yellow square), go to HDFury app and paste in the DV Infoframe.
  • TV switched to Dolby vision mode!
  • Once kicked into DV mode you can change back and forth between Absolute/Relative Metadata as required for calibration/verification.
  • Pre-calib readings massively off.
  • Changed to "Dolby Vision RGB Tunneling", re-read. Readings looked better.
  • But, I really should have used Absolute at that point. I realised at the end, so my "pre-cal" records are wrong.

Key thing was for me: source settings need to be "relative" before sending the DV Infoframe to kick the TV into DV mode.

Woo hoo!

Of course I didn't touch the 1DLUT. I only did the dolby config file part. It created two files.

DolbyVision_UserDisplayConfiguration.txt
Code:
# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.1.93 on Sun 22 Sep 2019
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version: 
PictureMode = 2
Tmax = 767.285864176409
Tmin = 0.0584981874024893
Tgamma = 2.2
ColorPrimaries = 0.6767 0.3218 0.2564 0.6783 0.1435 0.0508 0.3127 0.3290
TLMS2RGBmat = 4.13278785827531 -3.25438374754227 0.12159588926696 -0.915692432990774 2.05735316734118 -0.141660734350405 0.0552561805226776 -0.131072834622251 1.07581665409957
DolbyVision_UserDisplayConfiguration_2019.txt
Code:
# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.1.93 on Sun 22 Sep 2019
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version: 
[PictureMode = 2]
Tmax = 767.285864176409
Tmin = 0.0584981874024893
Tgamma = 2.2
TPrimaries = 0.6767 0.3218 0.2564 0.6783 0.1435 0.0508 0.3127 0.3290
I uploaded the first one to the TV, but there was no guidance on which one to select.

Also, FYI @WiFi-Spy - the workflow tells you it's going to measure black, white, r, g, b. That's wrong. It measures cyan, magenta and yellow as well.
Happy to see you finally got it to work. As I told you via PM, it's one hell of a fiddle to get it going, but once you do and get the procedure in the exact correct order, you will find it is repeatable each and every time. Ignoring the instructions with regards to selecting ABSOLUTE and instead selecting RELATIVE was only to get the TV into DV mode, once into DV mode you can select back and forth as per the instructions to do the calibration. So once in DV mode on the TV, change metadata as per instucted in the workflow.

FWIW, you were correct to upload the first one.

Regards, Leon
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post #3435 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 06:04 AM
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Thanks! Yes actually, in the directory chooser, even though it said "*.txt", it only displayed the one file and it hid the "_2019.txt" file - even though they are both .txt files.

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post #3436 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I've now tried that "one more thing", and it worked! Actually there were two differences between what I did before. In case it helps someone:
  • Calman Client 3 set to "Bypass", with "bypass LUT" ticked (it wasn't on previous tries - I had quit it before. This time I left it running).
  • Ran madLevelsTweaker.exe, dragged to TV, unticked, re-ticked, rebooted.
  • Followed Liberator72's advice, ignore Worflow instructions: when it asks to change the Mode/Metadata to "ABSOLUTE" in the source settings, ignore this and then set "Dolby Vision Relative Override" option.

Key thing was for me: source settings need to be "relative" before sending the DV Infoframe to kick the TV into DV mode.
This also matched @baller02 's sequence of steps in this post which I found belatedly.

I now know how to avoid resetting the 1DLUT (Do not "full DDC reset". Do not press Autocal button on Greyscale page. Do not pass go. Do not collect £200).
What I'd like to know is how to reset the 3DLUT from within Calman, as a separate operation, so that once that's done I can do my RGB Balance changes in the service menu white point adjust before proceeding to using Calman to make a 3DLUT. At what stage in the process does this happen please? Hopefully it's not done as part of the "full DDC reset"....

[EDIT: sorry, found it. (DDC window: 3DLUT controls: Reset 3D Lut button)]

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post #3437 of 3727 Old 09-22-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
  • Calman Client 3 set to "Bypass", with "bypass LUT" ticked (it wasn't on previous tries - I had quit it before. This time I left it running).
I noticed today that Win10 1903 often distorts the VGA calibration LUT even if it's neutral (no custom ICM profile) regardless if you have the Calibration Loader disabled in Task Scheduler. For example, 255 is often mapped to 254.1 which is 254 when rounded or truncated, so that "bypass LUT" might helped there. This is independent of GPU manufacturers. It gets fuzzed up every time I change certain options in the Windows display settings and I have to reset it manually (I do this with DisplayCAL). It's much more noticeable on graph plots when you start with a custom curve (it shows aliasing on the originally smooth curve after it's disturbed and you read it back out directly from the GPU).
And I can't get my AMD Ryzen+Vega based laptop to output anything but garbage on the HDMI port in HDR (there is heavy banding and/or obviously incorrect color saturation).
So, Win10 PCs seem to be in a bad shape these days.

By the way, my C8 got brighter between ~1000 and ~2000 hours. I remember it reaching ~730 nit when it was young but it hits ~780 now. I remember the C7 was similar (got brighter by the time I sold it). I debated to lower the OLED Light in order to get it to ~700. But it fluctuates so much anyways (it climbs to 800-820 if I let it warm up a bit).
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post #3438 of 3727 Old 09-23-2019, 06:52 AM
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The changes you will do to medium temp white balance preset of Service Menu (while you will display HDR10 patterns), they will affect the RGB balance of Warm 1 of normal menu, both HDR10/DV RGB balance will share that color temp and will be affected, so you pre-cal RGB balance in SM and then you select that color temp when you will watch HDR10/DV.

Factory DV color gamut tracking is good, grayscale RGB balance is off usually, doing the above you can improve DV RGB balance without having any DV pattern generator to verify the results, its the best you can do without spending a $.
@ConnecTEDDD , I have Mascior DV patterns. Are usable for this SM trick or is better to use HDR patterns?

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post #3439 of 3727 Old 09-23-2019, 07:12 AM
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@mrtickleuk are you using the HDR and AVI values given by baller02 in post 874 of this thread? I have the cheaper HDFury Linker, so my UI does not have the same controls as the Integral. So maybe I have some other control out of alignment for Dolby Vision.

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post #3440 of 3727 Old 09-23-2019, 11:06 AM
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@ConnecTEDDD , I have Mascior DV patterns. Are usable for this SM trick or is better to use HDR patterns?
Hi, you can use the Ryan's DV patterns as a more paramatric calibration after the SM trick adjustment.

The problem with HDR10/DV normal menu RGB balance controls to these displays..... (without bypassing the Tone-Mapping processing math's) they are taking place in Gamma space.

If the panel peak luminance is higher or lower that the assumed peak luminance (which the default is 700 nits for 2018/2019 models) of the PQ-EOTF processing math’s, you may find yourself pushing the grayscale adjustments in odd directions to compensate, resulting in the potential for banding.

Banding also called as false contouring or posterization, refers to unrealistic solid strips of color in areas that should display a smooth transition.

So performing 1p SM WB is a safe start, which will not introduce any problem with banding, but in DV mode since the OLED Light is not controlling peak output, it will be more difficult to get 700 nits with RGB-Gain's of SM menu, while in HDR mode you can reduce OLED Light.
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post #3441 of 3727 Old 09-23-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post
@mrtickleuk are you using the HDR and AVI values given by baller02 in post 874 of this thread? I have the cheaper HDFury Linker, so my UI does not have the same controls as the Integral. So maybe I have some other control out of alignment for Dolby Vision.
LeRoy
Yes/no,
I used their Dolby Vision infoframe in the "Custom HDR IF" box:
Code:
81:01:18:36:03:0c:00:20:01:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00
and my "Custom AVI IF" for 1080p24
00:E8:64:20:00 = RGB / 16:9, Extended Colorimetry / BT.2020 RGB *Limited* / 1080p24 / YCbCr Limited [use this from RPI/PC, with RPI/PC set to Full]
a 60Hz version of the same one:
1080p60 AVI infoframe: 00:E8:64:10:00

The problem is, if it doesn't work there are multiple reasons, falling into two main categories
1. Your PC/video-chain doesn't support bit-accurate RGB output
2. You've got something wrong in the setup / you're doing something wrong in the process.

If you've ever had it working before, even once, you know the answer to (1) and you can keep trying things. But if not, you don't know if it's because of (1) or (2).
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post #3442 of 3727 Old 09-25-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, you can use the Ryan's DV patterns as a more paramatric calibration after the SM trick adjustment.

The problem with HDR10/DV normal menu RGB balance controls to these displays..... (without bypassing the Tone-Mapping processing math's) they are taking place in Gamma space.

If the panel peak luminance is higher or lower that the assumed peak luminance (which the default is 700 nits for 2018/2019 models) of the PQ-EOTF processing math’s, you may find yourself pushing the grayscale adjustments in odd directions to compensate, resulting in the potential for banding.

Banding also called as false contouring or posterization, refers to unrealistic solid strips of color in areas that should display a smooth transition.

So performing 1p SM WB is a safe start, which will not introduce any problem with banding, but in DV mode since the OLED Light is not controlling peak output, it will be more difficult to get 700 nits with RGB-Gain's of SM menu, while in HDR mode you can reduce OLED Light.

I can only say that reducing peak output to 700 nits with SM or normal 2p controls will completely screw EOTF tracking for my panel, and not improve it as has been implied in the video. Doing this does the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do.
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post #3443 of 3727 Old 09-25-2019, 01:42 PM
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Hi,

From what I am now understanding, 2018 and 2019 models tonemap to 700nits. According to this video (LG's Neil Robinson at CES), oled light should be reduced to 700 nits for more accurate PQ tracking - https://youtu.be/wxMQLzJvr4A?t=172

If I am just doing a simple 2-point high correction, should I be lowering oled light to 700 nits? Currently mine measures 740 nits with oled light at 100 (10% window). Everywhere I read it says not to touch oled light at all.

For my TV, PQ tracking goes completely off when I try this.
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post #3444 of 3727 Old 09-25-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
I can only say that reducing peak output to 700 nits with SM or normal 2p controls will completely screw EOTF tracking, and not improve it as has been implied in the video.
Are you talking for HDR10? If yes, then use OLED Light to reduce peak output while with SM WB do only white balance fix.

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post #3445 of 3727 Old 09-28-2019, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Are you talking for HDR10? If yes, then use OLED Light to reduce peak output while with SM WB do only white balance fix.

Both HDR10 and DV. I shall try using OLED light this weekend.

Any reason do use SM WB instead of 2p WB in the normal TV menu for adjustment? Are there any differences?
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post #3446 of 3727 Old 09-28-2019, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
Any reason do use SM WB instead of 2p WB in the normal TV menu for adjustment? Are there any differences?
When you are calibrating HDR10 using the available to normal TV menu RGB balance controls, all these available RGB Balance controls adjustments are taking place in Gamma space.

If the panel peak luminance is higher or lower that the assumed peak luminance of the HDR processing math’s, you may find yourself pushing the grayscale adjustments in odd directions to compensate, resulting in the potential for banding.

When you are using manual cal, its recommended instead of adjusting normal TV menu White Balance settings, to adjust only the White Balance values of color temperature from inside the TV's Service Menu only.

The reason for that is because the normal menu White Balance settings combined with White Balance of Service Menu settings and work as offset from the native panel, and when you have active two controls which are performing the same job, this can make the internal processing algorithm more complex, so its better idea one White Balance menu to be used only to adjust from native panel response and not from both menus (normal TV + service) the same time.

Performing only Service Menu White Balance adjustments it will provide cleaner picture with smoother gradations.

So adjusting SM WB, you change the RGB balance directly from the panel.

As the 20-Point RGB balance controls are gamma based control points, for that reason there no alignment with digital code of patterns.

A lot of people are not using the 20p manual cal of HDR, as it will introduce a lot of problems visually, unless you will spent some very serious amount of time to verify with various content that you will not have any banding during movie playback, so people prefer the 1 or 2 point RGB balance only, or using RGB-Gain from SM WB and then adjust a few points of 20p normal menu RGB balance.

For 2018 LG OLED's, the active tone-mapping, while you perform manual cal, has these factory default values (you can't change):

HDR10 Tone Mapping default 'factory' parameters values

Peak Luminance: 700 nits

Metadata Point 1: 1000 nits

Roll-Off Point 1: 70%

Metadata Point 2: 4000 nits

Roll-Off Point 2: 60%

Metadata Point 3: 10000 nits

Roll-Off Point 3: 50%

Explanation of how tone mapping works is available here.

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post #3447 of 3727 Old 09-29-2019, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When you are calibrating HDR10 using the available to normal TV menu RGB balance controls, all these available RGB Balance controls adjustments are taking place in Gamma space.

If the panel peak luminance is higher or lower that the assumed peak luminance of the HDR processing math’s, you may find yourself pushing the grayscale adjustments in odd directions to compensate, resulting in the potential for banding.

When you are using manual cal, its recommended instead of adjusting normal TV menu White Balance settings, to adjust only the White Balance values of color temperature from inside the TV's Service Menu only.

The reason for that is because the normal menu White Balance settings combined with White Balance of Service Menu settings and work as offset from the native panel, and when you have active two controls which are performing the same job, this can make the internal processing algorithm more complex, so its better idea one White Balance menu to be used only to adjust from native panel response and not from both menus (normal TV + service) the same time.

Performing only Service Menu White Balance adjustments it will provide cleaner picture with smoother gradations.

So adjusting SM WB, you change the RGB balance directly from the panel.

As the 20-Point RGB balance controls are gamma based control points, for that reason there no alignment with digital code of patterns.

A lot of people are not using the 20p manual cal of HDR, as it will introduce a lot of problems visually, unless you will spent some very serious amount of time to verify with various content that you will not have any banding during movie playback, so people prefer the 1 or 2 point RGB balance only, or using RGB-Gain from SM WB and then adjust a few points of 20p normal menu RGB balance.
Does the same logic (double SM/TV menu settings) also have significance for SDR calibration?
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post #3448 of 3727 Old 09-29-2019, 01:58 AM
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Does the same logic (double SM/TV menu settings) also have significance for SDR calibration?
Yes indeed.

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post #3449 of 3727 Old 09-29-2019, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by oledmod View Post
Does the same logic (double SM/TV menu settings) also have significance for SDR calibration?
Yes, it can improve the picture quality in SDR also, just in SDR the alignment of calibration controls with displayed patterns is much better.

The less processing normal UI will apply, the better the picture (not in dE, but visually).

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post #3450 of 3727 Old 09-29-2019, 02:58 AM
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If I want to change the White Point, eg to LG/Dolby's perceptual CRT matched one (x=0.308 y=0.313), I definitely need to do the 1DLUT, I can't skip it can I? But once that's done and I only want to re-do the 3DLUT for that Picture Mode, I can keep my own alternate-WP 1DLUT next time?

And any time I want to change the WP, it's a re-do of the 1DLUT. Is that right?
You can skip 1D LUT, then create a custom colorspace based to REC.709, enter the custom WP coordinates and save it.....then use that as target colorspace for your 3D LUT.

Later post your results, as we have to see 3D LUT volumetric calibration from someone with LG OLED a long time, upload your LG *.3dl file, and someone will import it to LightSpace to check how it looks.

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