2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 118 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3511 of 3665 Old 10-05-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
But it hasn't tested by anyone yet, in the real world.

Anyway, the stuff it talking has to do when you will send an RGB patch from HDMI input, its applying an offset to match the same patch as it was generated from iTPG.

When you will send input YCbCr patch generation, this is not calculated any offest, as when you are using iTPG you send RGB triplets, you don't say send YCbCr triplet to iTPG and calculate the offset correction for RGB, as iTPG can generate RGB triplets.
i'm not being awkward but he didn't say it was restricted to RGB, and how can you be so certain that no-one in the world has tested it?

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post #3512 of 3665 Old 10-05-2019, 06:29 PM
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i'm not being awkward but he didn't say it was restricted to RGB, and how can you be so certain that no-one in the world has tested it?
Its very simple, the offset is different to match RGB-Video input from matching YCbCr input.

It can't match both the same time and you don't have any selection to say apply offset to match YCbCr input or RGB input.

I know a lot of users with LG C9, but they use external generators, as BR50 is very rare the correct value (for able to use iTPG), and using i1Display PRO is not a good ideal to try to fix 2.3% gray, when you will use the 1D LUT to handle near black.

The C8/C9 users I have talked, they are all ingoring completely the 1D LUT calibration, and use other CR or BR values from the bypass values (BR50/CR85) iTPG need to work.

For that reason we haven't added iTPG to DeviceControl, as we are interested the calibration to be performed from the HDMI Input of the TV, with YCbCr or RGB 16-255 input.

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post #3513 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 02:29 AM
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I think that's the same video where Neil also explains that using the internal pattern generator is exactly the same as using an external pattern generator, because it takes all the rounding errors in the pipeline into account and will generate the exact same patterns you would get if you requested them from HDMI?
Unfortunately, that is just PR bollox.

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post #3514 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 02:35 AM
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Its very simple, the offset is different to match RGB-Video input from matching YCbCr input.
I think it's simple too: either you believe him or you do not! I am happy to believe that the TV knows whether the input was RGB or YCbCr, and can apply different reverse-rounding-errors to the signal. So one set of calculations if it's RGB, and another if it's YCbCr. In the video, Neil didn't say that the feature was restricted to RGB.

Why don't you do a test if you have these doubts? You didn't answer the other question, how are you so certain that no-one has tested it?

Quote:
I know a lot of users with LG C9, but they use external generators, as BR50 is very rare the correct value (for able to use iTPG), and using i1Display PRO is not a good ideal to try to fix 2.3% gray, when you will use the 1D LUT to handle near black.

The C8/C9 users I have talked, they are all ingoring completely the 1D LUT calibration, and use other CR or BR values from the bypass values (BR50/CR85) iTPG need to work.
Yes and you have been very helpful and patient with me also, I think my C8 isn't correct with BR50 and have tried the process of not using the 1DLUT.

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Unfortunately, that is just PR bollox.
Ted said that no-one in the world has put it to the test. This would be easy to do for someone who owned the TV and the equipment, how peculiar that no-one has bothered to disprove it if it is so simple to do and if it's so obviously a lie? Yet we're all happy to quote him when wanting to back up a detail in a discussion. I've done it myself! From the interviews I've seen Neil give, I consider him to be a senior LG engineer who knows what he's talking about. I have zero reason to think he is the type of PR marketeer who would not be truthful. In my experience, engineers and marketeers are very different people.

All I am saying - and this is all I am saying - is that unless someone disproves it, I don't think anyone should go around traducing his name yet then be happy in the same breath to use his words to back up something else. Equally, you might like to say "Neil hasn't proved it so I don't believe it" which would be fine and the maximum you can say. But to say more than that, to be able to say that it is untrue, is bad, it's up to you to prove it - which should be easy for anyone with the TV and the equipment.

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post #3515 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 02:55 AM
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The reality is it is not possible to accurately 'match' such errors, as they are variable based on the input signal value.
So there would effectively have to be different corrections for every possible input colour...

If the statement was more along the lines of 'we have approximated' the signal path errors'...

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post #3516 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 03:08 AM
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The reality is it is not possible to accurately 'match' such errors, as they are variable based on the input signal value.
So there would effectively have to be different corrections for every possible input colour...

If the statement was more along the lines of 'we have approximated' the signal path errors'...
Big lookup table? Ok, I understand your position more clearly.

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post #3517 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 03:16 AM
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The term 'bollox' is a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Neil is very good, and I've had a number of good discussions with him, back when LG were originally keen to work with Light Illusion/LightSpace.

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post #3518 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 03:31 AM
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Fair enough

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post #3519 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I think it's simple too: either you believe him or you do not! I am happy to believe that the TV knows whether the input was RGB or YCbCr, and can apply different reverse-rounding-errors to the signal. So one set of calculations if it's RGB, and another if it's YCbCr. In the video, Neil didn't say that the feature was restricted to RGB.

Why don't you do a test if you have these doubts? You didn't answer the other question, how are you so certain that no-one has tested it?

Ted said that no-one in the world has put it to the test. This would be easy to do for someone who owned the TV and the equipment, how peculiar that no-one has bothered to disprove it if it is so simple to do and if it's so obviously a lie? Yet we're all happy to quote him when wanting to back up a detail in a discussion. I've done it myself! From the interviews I've seen Neil give, I consider him to be a senior LG engineer who knows what he's talking about. I have zero reason to think he is the type of PR marketeer who would not be truthful. In my experience, engineers and marketeers are very different people.

All I am saying - and this is all I am saying - is that unless someone disproves it, I don't think anyone should go around traducing his name yet then be happy in the same breath to use his words to back up something else. Equally, you might like to say "Neil hasn't proved it so I don't believe it" which would be fine and the maximum you can say. But to say more than that, to be able to say that it is untrue, is bad, it's up to you to prove it - which should be easy for anyone with the TV and the equipment.
We are talking for patch generation....

The correction offset has been added to improve one of the two different input signal colorspace.....its impossible to affect both, as the correction offeset is different per each colorspace.

When you generate patches, iTPG will generate RGB-Triplet 10bit, so to that triplet its added an offset to include some processing different from generating RGB-triplet pattern from HDMI Input.

We are talking for a TV which from engineer perspective has issues:

1) enabling calibration/disabling calibration provide different results...

2) Uploading 1D LUT inside to TV vs. loading virtually that 1D LUT as offset to patch generator provide different results.

3) Measuring from HDMI Input with YCbCr patterns has difference from RGB-Video patterns.

4) LG is happy with results of volumetric 3D LUT generated from CalMAN at least for 2 year, they don't see the problems CalMAN users (not my measurement) have posted to AVSForum...

and you keep believe what LG is saying...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58469108

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post #3520 of 3665 Old 10-06-2019, 05:04 PM
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I think the presence of significant rounding errors in 2019 is a joke to begin with. It was possible to handle FullHD in 10bit with no apparent banding or drifting ~10 years ago. Sure, the resolution jumped to 4x in pixels but some current smartphones are faster than many 10 years old laptops. And it doesn't even really look like rounding error to me. That usually causes banding and strange colorization on (when the color channels are affected differently and some mixed colors come out rather differently than expected), not a smooth drift. It looks more like a math error.


I tried TED's advice of reducing OLED Light for HDR10 to hit ~700nit peak white (which seemed to needed a setting of 86 but a +/-20 nit drift is expected in HDR peak white depending on the IR). I was a bit afraid this might messes with the "WRGB magic" (how the processor compensates for the inaccuracy caused by the "overshooting" W on dark colors) but I think it came out fairly well. The grayscale luma tracking is definitely much better and saturated/mixed colors always had some luma errors.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
We are talking for patch generation....

The correction offset has been added to improve one of the two different input signal colorspace.....its impossible to affect both, as the correction offeset is different per each colorspace.

When you generate patches, iTPG will generate RGB-Triplet 10bit, so to that triplet its added an offset to include some processing different from generating RGB-triplet pattern from HDMI Input.

We are talking for a TV which from engineer perspective has issues:

1) enabling calibration/disabling calibration provide different results...

2) Uploading 1D LUT inside to TV vs. loading virtually that 1D LUT as offset to patch generator provide different results.

3) Measuring from HDMI Input with YCbCr patterns has difference from RGB-Video patterns.

4) LG is happy with results of volumetric 3D LUT generated from CalMAN at least for 2 year, they don't see the problems CalMAN users (not my measurement) have posted to AVSForum...

and you keep believe what LG is saying...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58469108


Modern TV display device video pipelines are much more complicated than most people understand. Different operations have to happen in YCBCR and others have to happen in RGB. There are multiple conversions that happen regardless of which input you send originally. There are less conversions that happen if you send the TV RGB. Because the first thing the TV does is convert everything to full range RGB. So if you send it limited RGB it doesn’t have to do anything but convert limited to full range. But it will still have to convert back to YCbCr and back to RGB in the pipeline.
There is no “conspiracy” In fact LG has been more open than any other TV manufacture with how the TV actually works.
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post #3522 of 3665 Old 10-07-2019, 01:28 AM
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HDFury for HDR calibration in Calman Home

Hello!

Is it possible to use an HDFury for HDR calibration in Calman Home for LG? Could it be used for example in combination with the mobile forge pattern generator?
Or is there any other solution for HDR calibration, where you don't need a 1500$ pattern generator? Unfortunately I have the LG C8 and not the C9 with the internal pattern generator.

Cheers,
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post #3523 of 3665 Old 10-07-2019, 03:20 AM
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post #3524 of 3665 Old 10-07-2019, 05:08 AM
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Now that I think about this, DisplayCAL could be our best option.
Let us know if you figured out how to profile HDR10 mode with it and upload it

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post #3525 of 3665 Old 10-07-2019, 05:18 AM
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Let us know if you figured out how to profile HDR10 mode with it and upload it

I think it should be easy for anyone capable of writing the code if LG's 1DLUT format is technically public or trivial to reverse-engineer. May be Florian will pick this up: https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/reply/20331/
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There are less conversions that happen if you send the TV RGB. Because the first thing the TV does is convert everything to full range RGB. So if you send it limited RGB it doesn’t have to do anything but convert limited to full range.
Very interesting - so for media playback via PC (where RGB is really the only option), a complete 'full' chain is optimal, video renderer and GPU at full and TV black level high? I have been using madVR limited>GPU full>TV black level low. I definitely see and measure some differences very near black between these two configurations (a complete 'full' chain is very slightly darker near black).
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I had used a madVR complete "RGB full" setup for a long time. After switching to "madVR limited>GPU full>TV black level low" I have noticed a signifcant better picture quality as smoother transitions, less noise, slightly sharper. There have to be some additional conversions or processing which cause overflow and rounding errors when receiving full RGB.

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There are less conversions that happen if you send the TV RGB. Because the first thing the TV does is convert everything to full range RGB. So if you send it limited RGB it doesn’t have to do anything but convert limited to full range.
I normally feed the TV with Full RGB from a PC, so it seemed obvious to use Full RGB for calibration as well. But I never managed to get decent AutoCAL results when I opted for Full RGB input. I guess this is because of how CalMAN handles the LG pattern sets and forces Contrast=85 in SDR mode (which seems to keep whiter-than-white in SDR which means we need patterns with WTW patches and that's not possible with FullRGB, so Contrast has to go to 100 [with tricks] but then something else goes wrong... I am not sure where I failed before I gave up... And then the ABL also behaves differently with different Contrast/OLEDLight...).

Edit: Oh, I remember now. The problem is that I can either use the limited range LG pattern set converted to full range with dither noise or rounding errors in madTPG or use the generic full range PC pattern sets. But something was strange in HDR with the PC set (it's probably because the set is not optimized, so I would need much more than ~20 points for similar results).

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There is no “conspiracy”
Except the DolbyVision one.

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post #3529 of 3665 Old 10-08-2019, 04:36 PM
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I normally feed the TV with Full RGB from a PC, so it seemed obvious to use Full RGB for calibration as well. But I never managed to get decent AutoCAL results when I opted for Full RGB input. I guess this is because of how CalMAN handles the LG pattern sets and forces Contrast=85 in SDR mode (which seems to keep whiter-than-white in SDR which means we need patterns with WTW patches and that's not possible with FullRGB, so Contrast has to go to 100 [with tricks] but then something else goes wrong... I am not sure where I failed before I gave up... And then the ABL also behaves differently with different Contrast/OLEDLight...).

Edit: Oh, I remember now. The problem is that I can either use the limited range LG pattern set converted to full range with dither noise or rounding errors in madTPG or use the generic full range PC pattern sets. But something was strange in HDR with the PC set (it's probably because the set is not optimized, so I would need much more than ~20 points for similar results).


Except the DolbyVision one.


The suggested way to calibrate for Full Range is To perform the calibration in limited range RGB, Then change LG menu setting: “black level=low to High” After calibration. This is the process that is used in Hollywood when using the TV in full range.
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The suggested way to calibrate for Full Range is To perform the calibration in limited range RGB, Then change LG menu setting: “black level=low to High” After calibration. This is the process that is used in Hollywood when using the TV in full range.
I eventually did exactly that. But wouldn't it be theoretically better to calibrate with Full RGB if it not only allows for skipping a potentially lossy internal processing step but in this case also matches the intended final format?
There is an "expand internal patterns to PC levels" (or something like that) but I am not sure what it really does and if it's applicable to LG pattern sets (or the situation in general). I guess, if anything, I should leave CalMAN and madTPG both at 16-235 and tick this for the LG 16-235 set while the TV is set to High (Full). However, I am not sure of the bit depth of this level expansion and the data sent to madTPG, so may be it's worse than letting the TV to handle it.

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post #3531 of 3665 Old 10-09-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There are less conversions that happen if you send the TV RGB. Because the first thing the TV does is convert everything to full range RGB. So if you send it limited RGB it doesn’t have to do anything but convert limited to full range. But it will still have to convert back to YCbCr and back to RGB in the pipeline.
I don't think the LG will expand Video to PC levels as doing this it will clip WTW, and as you have seen, this is not happening.

Since LG can't really process without adding a lot of banding a full range (data level input signal), as it not really able to use PC Level 3D LUT also, this is the proof that TV is working in Video Legal range internally, so the multiple colorspace conversion stay at video levels (as YCbCr is always video levels and conversion between RGB-Video <-> YCbCr colorspace's can be perform multiple times due to many different processing stages.

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I don't think the LG will expand Video to PC levels as doing this it will clip WTW, and as you have seen, this is not happening.

Since LG can't really process without adding a lot of banding a full range (data level input signal), as it not really able to use PC Level 3D LUT also, this is the proof that TV is working in Video Legal range internally, so the multiple colorspace conversion stay at video levels (as YCbCr is always video levels and conversion between RGB-Video <-> YCbCr colorspace's can be perform multiple times due to many different processing stages.


You are confusing RGB full range with setting the TV to PC mode by changing the input Icon to PC.

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post #3533 of 3665 Old 10-09-2019, 10:29 AM
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You are confusing RGB full range with setting the TV to PC mode by changing the input Icon to PC.
No, I don't confuse that one, when you will perform 3D LUT with 16-255 RGB patterns (Black Level @ Low) and then you switch the Black Level to High and send PC Level signal, then you will see added banding.

When you enable PC Icon and send 59p or 60p signal, the panel natively working in 8bit so the gradation is worse from that fact, this is a different issue from the above.

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post #3534 of 3665 Old 10-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I think it's simple too: either you believe him or you do not! I am happy to believe that the TV knows whether the input was RGB or YCbCr, and can apply different reverse-rounding-errors to the signal. So one set of calculations if it's RGB, and another if it's YCbCr. In the video, Neil didn't say that the feature was restricted to RGB.
The offset per colorspace is different, and during patch generation one offset is added from LG, so the offset will be for one colorspace (RGB or YCbCr) Input (as the generator works in RGB 10-bit), it can't be added offset for both colorspaces the same time as the offset is different for HDMI YCbCr Input compared to HDMI RGB-Input.

If the iTPG generator had option to select what kind of patterns to generate (RGB vs. YCbCr triplet), then LG should have a different offset per each different colorspace, but as there no such option and patterns always generated with RGB 10-bit, then the correction offset can correct small deviations of one colorspace, not for both.

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post #3535 of 3665 Old 10-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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HD Fury
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Originally Posted by ArminW View Post
Hello!

Is it possible to use an HDFury for HDR calibration in Calman Home for LG? Could it be used for example in combination with the mobile forge pattern generator?
Or is there any other solution for HDR calibration, where you don't need a 1500$ pattern generator? Unfortunately I have the LG C8 and not the C9 with the internal pattern generator.

Cheers,
Armin
Hi Armin,

CalMAN Home for LG is listing ''HDfury Integral 4K60 4:4:4'' as supported hardware from HD Fury products, can Tyler confirm that current CalMAN version is working with that old HDFury model?

If its working, then using the PGenerator (not using MobileForge) with CalMAN, it will be fine for patch generation of RGB-Video for SDR, so HDFury controlled by CalMAN will be able to add the HDR10 Metadata and AVI InfoFrame.

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post #3536 of 3665 Old 10-09-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The offset per colorspace is different, and during patch generation one offset is added from LG, so the offset will be for one colorspace (RGB or YCbCr) Input (as the generator works in RGB 10-bit), it can't be added offset for both colorspaces the same time as the offset is different for HDMI YCbCr Input compared to HDMI RGB-Input.

If the iTPG generator had option to select what kind of patterns to generate (RGB vs. YCbCr triplet), then LG should have a different offset per each different colorspace, but as there no such option and patterns always generated with RGB 10-bit, then the correction offset can correct small deviations of one colorspace, not for both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The offset per colorspace is different, and during patch generation one offset is added from LG, so the offset will be for one colorspace (RGB or YCbCr) Input (as the generator works in RGB 10-bit), it can't be added offset for both colorspaces the same time as the offset is different for HDMI YCbCr Input compared to HDMI RGB-Input.

If the iTPG generator had option to select what kind of patterns to generate (RGB vs. YCbCr triplet), then LG should have a different offset per each different colorspace, but as there no such option and patterns always generated with RGB 10-bit, then the correction offset can correct small deviations of one colorspace, not for both.
I understand. Calman always only requests RGB patterns anyway.

The way I see it:
  • The internal generator only needs to generate RGB patterns, and, therefore knows it only needs to implement RGB rounding-error offsets.

This is just like me using a bit-accurate Raspberry Pi sending perfect RGB to the TV. The results with a 2019 LG internal pattern generator would be identical.

Ie these are the same:
  • Calman RGB triplet requested -> Raspberry Pi -> pattern output in RGB -> HDMI -> TV -> internal pipeline with RGB-input rounding errors -> display.
  • Calman RGB triplet requested -> $$ professional pattern generator $$ -> pattern output in RGB -> HDMI -> TV -> internal pipeline with RGB-input rounding errors -> display.
  • Calman RGB triplet requested -> 2019 TV using internal pattern generator -> internal pipeline with RGB-input rounding errors -> display.

Separately, we already know that these are slightly different with your analysis and animations.
  • Calman RGB triplet requested -> $$ professional pattern generator $$ -> pattern output in RGB -> HDMI -> TV -> internal pipeline with RGB-input rounding errors -> display.
  • Calman RGB triplet requested -> $$ professional pattern generator $$ -> pattern output in YCbCr -> HDMI -> TV -> internal pipeline with YCbCr-input rounding errors -> display.

But I think the same as @jrref 's opinion when he replied on that subject.

Hmm, is your objection to the whole concept of the internal pattern generator that it does this:
Calman RGB triplet requested -> 2019 TV using internal pattern generator -> internal pipeline with RGB-input rounding errors -> display.
and cannot be asked to do this:
Calman RGB triplet requested -> 2019 TV using internal pattern generator -> internal pipeline with YCbCr-input rounding errors -> display.
?

If so, please remember that the internal pattern generator is aimed at the Home Enthusiast, the people like me, not professionals. What it does is save people the cost of a HDFury, Raspberry Pi, and having the pain of getting RGB-perfect output from a PC for Dolby Vision. It takes a lot of pain away, and gives those people the same result I am now getting after a huge amount of work, reading, and mistakes!

We enthusiasts are the people who would have never bought this:
$$ professional pattern generator $$ -> pattern output in YCbCr
...in a million years!
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post #3537 of 3665 Old 10-09-2019, 01:20 PM
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If so, please remember that the internal pattern generator is aimed at the Home Enthusiast, the people like me, not professionals. What it does is save people the cost of a HDFury, Raspberry Pi, and having the pain of getting RGB-perfect output from a PC for Dolby Vision. It takes a lot of pain away, and gives those people the same result I am now getting after a huge amount of work, reading, and mistakes!
The end of the day, you need to have calibrated picture to your whole video chain.

Its good idea when all displays will have internal TPG, but they should be placed before any contrast/brightness or HDR tone mapping function processing.

Since we talk for LG, you still need to verify that all are good using the HDMI Input, for SDR and HDR10 at least.

You will need to get for example a calibration disk, to check that is your player is OK, playback SDR or HDR10/DV patterns.

As all these required, and people have other TV's also to calibrate, usually they are using PGenerator, I mean the people which will find out that MobileForge is not bit-perfect and see that PGenerator is proved bit-perfect for RGB as automated patch generation, so as most people will choose to get PGenerator to calibrate all Home TV's (or their friends TV), when the user will have PGenerator and LG 2019 with iTPG, it will be a better idea to use the PGenerator instead of iTPG, as he can skip 1D LUT for example (as we have posted and you found also that is better the results if you skip 1D LUT), use whatever BR/CR value its correct for their setup.

As we have discussed the LG iTPG is not a complete patch generation solution.

An enthusiast, will need to have a calibration disks (some reference movie stuff also for evaluation per each type of calibration), PGenerator and HDFury, to be able to perform 3D LUT measurements, checks from source players, and be flexible to calibrate any display/projector.
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post #3538 of 3665 Old 10-10-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is no “conspiracy” In fact LG has been more open than any other TV manufacture with how the TV actually works.
According to Dolby's reference document with color grading instructions, as its been added the previewing capability of the grade on a Dolby Vision TV via HDMI Tunneling, the document recommending C7 or C9, but not C8... (page 18)

If you check older version of that document (2018...page 14) it was recommending C7 and C8.

Do you know the reason C8 is not mentioned to 2019 document?

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Help! I tried to upload a dolby vision configuration file to my C8 using Calman LG Home, and immediately after doing that, the tv shut itself off and entered some kind of boot loop. Now as soon as it's plugged in it tries to turn on, then a few seconds later I hear the relay click and it repeats.

I can't access the menu to do a factory reset.

I assume there was something wrong with the dolby vision configuration file I uploaded somehow and the TV doesn't like it. Any suggestions how to bypass this/upload a new file/trigger a factory reset/etc?
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post #3540 of 3665 Old 10-11-2019, 02:32 PM
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Help! I tried to upload a dolby vision configuration file to my C8 using Calman LG Home, and immediately after doing that, the tv shut itself off and entered some kind of boot loop. Now as soon as it's plugged in it tries to turn on, then a few seconds later I hear the relay click and it repeats.

I can't access the menu to do a factory reset.

I assume there was something wrong with the dolby vision configuration file I uploaded somehow and the TV doesn't like it. Any suggestions how to bypass this/upload a new file/trigger a factory reset/etc?
Hi, to bad to hear such problem to your TV.

Unfortunately there nothing you can do from your end, as you can't access the normal TV menu.

Can you check what file you uploaded, its stored inside your CalMAN folder (at documents folder see I think)

CalMAN Home will create 2 TXT files, which one you uploaded?

See example there:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58591774

You can open the files to see if values are valid inside to that file.

When these features released to TV, back in 2018, I had asked for capability of the complete upload/backup to be possible for everything from USB (1D/3D/DV CFG), so the TV to be able to check if the file is valid also, like the way you can import/export TV station channels. (where it will be display a msg when the list you will upload is not compatible).

While this is less user-friendly, as it will require more manual procedure, its safer for backup/upload reasons, to prevent problem like the one you have experienced or problems other users have reported when the LUT files were not uploaded and it was required to remove the power cable while the TV was open to properly loaded after that etc.

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