2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 123 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3661 of 3710 Old 12-04-2019, 08:15 AM
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Thank you very much for the reply . Yes, I want to adjust the gamma to 20 points, RGB low pass I never touch it. My dilemma is whether to adjust the gamma with the brightness control or adjust gamma with the green of each IRE and then compensate with red and blue, especially IRE 5 and 10 are interested, because I have black crush. Thank you.
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post #3662 of 3710 Old 12-04-2019, 08:53 AM
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Luminance adjustments with 20p most likely will cause artefacts.
Just use RGB instead.

Example:
Luminance = +5 corresponds to R=+5, G=+5, B=+5.

Do not touch the CMS.
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post #3663 of 3710 Old 12-04-2019, 09:15 AM
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Thank you very much to both, now it is clear to me. I will adjust with RGB 20p
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post #3664 of 3710 Old 12-04-2019, 11:05 AM
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Can you guys tell me if I can upload custom HDR curve to LG C8?
Or is it 2019 models only ?
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post #3665 of 3710 Old 12-04-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony_bcc View Post
Can you guys tell me if I can upload custom HDR curve to LG C8?

Or is it 2019 models only ?


2019 only.

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post #3666 of 3710 Old 12-11-2019, 08:20 PM
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I have two E8s that I would like to calibrate. I saw the video on SDR calibration. If I want to do HDR calibration, do I just need to use a firestick? Can someone point me to a tutorial for HDR on 2018 OLEDs?

Thanks in advance.
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post #3667 of 3710 Old 12-13-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blesbok View Post
If I want to do HDR calibration, do I just need to use a firestick? Can someone point me to a tutorial for HDR on 2018 OLEDs?
Here's a
.
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post #3668 of 3710 Old 12-13-2019, 03:28 PM
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Continuing from the Calman release thread, here are the results of my first run with the new Fixed LUT in Calman.

This is run on SDR Cinema mode. This is with the LG factory 1DLUT, I do not use my own custom 1DLUT and skip those parts of the workflow.
2pt greyscale is done in SM as per Ted's method (see earlier posts for much much discussion of that).

The starting point was my 8000pts iRP LUT that I did in September.


Next, readings after I reset to a known baseline which is the Matrix LUT - the new "pre".


Next, I ran the Fixed LUT - the "post".


Matrix vs Fixed.
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post #3669 of 3710 Old 12-13-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Continuing from the Calman release thread, here are the results of my first run with the new Fixed LUT in Calman.



This is run on SDR Cinema mode. This is with the LG factory 1DLUT, I do not use my own custom 1DLUT and skip those parts of the workflow.

2pt greyscale is done in SM as per Ted's method (see earlier posts for much much discussion of that).



The starting point was my 8000pts iRP LUT that I did in September.





Next, readings after I reset to a known baseline which is the Matrix LUT - the new "pre".





Next, I ran the Fixed LUT - the "post".





Matrix vs Fixed.



I don’t understand how you got a matrix LUT that low of a DE? Are you sure that’s what you were showing? It typically gets avg 1.0, max of around 3-3.5
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post #3670 of 3710 Old 12-13-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I don’t understand how you got a matrix LUT that low of a DE? Are you sure that’s what you were showing? It typically gets avg 1.0, max of around 3-3.5
Hmm, I'm pretty sure, but I could have made a mistake I suppose. Could it be influenced by the lack of an underlying user-1DLUT and rather using the factory 1DLUT, as I do? I am taking that to be the explanation for the difference in the greyscales between the two.

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post #3671 of 3710 Old 12-13-2019, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I was saying to myself that matrix lut looked a little too good lol
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post #3672 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I was saying to myself that matrix lut looked a little too good lol
Yeah. I did see the Matrix happen, and upload itself to the TV, so not sure what may have gone wrong.

The problem is, being stuck in the position of
a) not wanting to do a factory reset because I lose too much and it's a massive hassle updating and setting up all the apps all over again
b) not being able to get the factory LUTs back without doing a factory reset.

I am stuck, and pretty annoyed that it's been addressed for the 2019 models, but nothing has been done for the 2018 models and we are left behind. If no-one had said anything, you may think I have a sense of entitlement that is out of place, but in the early days of the 2018 models, on this thread, we were told that Spectracal and LG were aware that this is a problem and promised to address it.

So for the SDR modes, Cinema is my only non-LG-LUT mode and I do not want to lose the LG LUTs on any other SDR modes because they are too difficult to get back. So I'm limited in the testing I can do unfortunately. All I could do is to repeat the whole process again but have other things to do first . Hopefully someone else can pick up!

EDIT: A lot of the delay was me trying to find a workflow which had nice displays of the ColourChecker SG which are actually readable! I gave up. Could have used the plain ColourChecker but you did say detailed, so I thought more readings would be better - hope I guessed right!
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post #3673 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Yeah. I did see the Matrix happen, and upload itself to the TV, so not sure what may have gone wrong.

The problem is, being stuck in the position of
a) not wanting to do a factory reset because I lose too much and it's a massive hassle updating and setting up all the apps all over again
b) not being able to get the factory LUTs back without doing a factory reset.

I am stuck, and pretty annoyed that it's been addressed for the 2019 models, but nothing has been done for the 2018 models and we are left behind. If no-one had said anything, you may think I have a sense of entitlement that is out of place, but in the early days of the 2018 models, on this thread, we were told that Spectracal and LG were aware that this is a problem and promised to address it.

So for the SDR modes, Cinema is my only non-LG-LUT mode and I do not want to lose the LG LUTs on any other SDR modes because they are too difficult to get back. So I'm limited in the testing I can do unfortunately. All I could do is to repeat the whole process again but have other things to do first . Hopefully someone else can pick up!

EDIT: A lot of the delay was me trying to find a workflow which had nice displays of the ColourChecker SG which are actually readable! I gave up. Could have used the plain ColourChecker but you did say detailed, so I thought more readings would be better - hope I guessed right!
You did a nice job. We wanted to see if there was improvement and there is, maybe a lot, so that's great. I'm calibrating and LG next week so i'll also post what I see. As far as LG is concerned, there are always reasons, business and or technical why they don't back patch sets. I can tell you for sure, 100%, if it involves a change to the menu, you are probably not going to see it. Their engineers tell me because of the many languages, and the testing it's becomes a big job. I don't agree but that's what they tell me.

A little story. There was a time when you couldn't do a "copy to all" in the CMS menus. I was at a ISF class sitting next to an LG engineer and explained the problem and wrote the pseudo code for him to take back to Korea. Several firmware updates later the feature was implemented but it was in the same model year. After Sam Ahn, the local LG technical liaison did the translating, I discovered that the LG engineer didn't realize the flaw in the menu's and how much work it caused when calibrating which motivated him to push the fix. Fortunately he worked with the development team in some way that enabled him to get the work done. Interesting
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post #3674 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You did a nice job. We wanted to see if there was improvement and there is, maybe a lot, so that's great. I'm calibrating and LG next week so i'll also post what I see. As far as LG is concerned, there are always reasons, business and or technical why they don't back patch sets. I can tell you for sure, 100%, if it involves a change to the menu, you are probably not going to see it. Their engineers tell me because of the many languages, and the testing it's becomes a big job. I don't agree but that's what they tell me.
Yes, thanks. I agree and I know that problem first-hand. The "minimum" amount of work to change such a thing is huge - every language, 30+ different builds have to be tested, etc.

Quote:
A little story. There was a time when you couldn't do a "copy to all" in the CMS menus. I was at a ISF class sitting next to an LG engineer and explained the problem and wrote the pseudo code for him to take back to Korea. Several firmware updates later the feature was implemented but it was in the same model year. After Sam Ahn, the local LG technical liaison did the translating, I discovered that the LG engineer didn't realize the flaw in the menu's and how much work it caused when calibrating which motivated him to push the fix. Fortunately he worked with the development team in some way that enabled him to get the work done. Interesting
I remember. And other stories where they explained how the pixel refresher operates too, although that might not have been you. I just know that those ISF classes appear to be a goldmine as far as "getting things improved" for us are (if you get the chance, "copy to all" is only fully complete on Panasonics, it still doesn't copy everything for our LGs!). It's a shame that these huge things are so fragile and fleeting (by a chance conversation with the right person, rather than by asking users in a more structured way). That proves something is broken.

But in this case, asking for new features in the menus would be too much, but it is not the only way. If it was something in the firmware that Calman could control, when connected to the TV - just like when it uploads LUTs and does "full DDC resets" - that would be fine by me. A new "restore that factory LUT to the mode please". That would be only a fraction of the work required compared with a menu option, so why can't they do just that?

(And in this case, the "Reset" menu option is already there, I suppose it leaves the calibration's LUTs in place to avoid people losing calibration by accident, fine, but this was changed for 2019 so what's different about 2019 models).
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post #3675 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 09:09 AM
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You guys say there is big improvement just by looking at charts that means nothing. Evaluation needs to be done with special tools like LightSpace for example to examine the quality of the LUT.

While you have good looking charts the cube viewer of LightSpace shows how the new fixed grid LUT really looks and I wouldn't say that there is a big improvement. I would say this is a step backward from the IRP LUT in terms of quality.



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post #3676 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I wonder what could be causing this. Let's see what it looks like when I do a LUT with my equipment. I'll try some experiments.

Fabio, is it possible to send me a copy of a good LUT that you created with LS? Miki has my e-mail address. I want to run a couple of experiments.

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post #3677 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
You guys say there is big improvement just by looking at charts that means nothing. Evaluation needs to be done with special tools like LightSpace for example to examine the quality of the LUT.

While you have good looking charts the cube viewer of LightSpace shows how the new fixed grid LUT really looks and I wouldn't say that there is a big improvement. I would say this is a step backward from the IRP LUT in terms of quality.





I saw nothing like this with my testing. There has to be some configuration issue here. We inspected the LUTs in MatLab in 3D point clouds.
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post #3678 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I saw nothing like this with my testing. There has to be some configuration issue here. We inspected the LUTs in MatLab in 3D point clouds.
Is it practical to post your results?

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post #3679 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 02:41 PM
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I saw nothing like this with my testing. There has to be some configuration issue here. We inspected the LUTs in MatLab in 3D point clouds.
What it could be?
Earlier send my .3dl file and also profile file when you asked, never got response.
So could you help to find what kind of configuration error there may be?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58957358
I´ll try whatever changes to configuration, just name it.
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post #3680 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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What it could be?
Earlier send my .3dl file and also profile file when you asked, never got response.
So could you help to find what kind of configuration error there may be?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58957358
I´ll try whatever changes to configuration, just name it.
If you sent the report today, it will be Monday before they see it and i'm sure you will get a response.

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post #3681 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
You guys say there is big improvement just by looking at charts that means nothing. Evaluation needs to be done with special tools like LightSpace for example to examine the quality of the LUT.

While you have good looking charts the cube viewer of LightSpace shows how the new fixed grid LUT really looks and I wouldn't say that there is a big improvement. I would say this is a step backward from the IRP LUT in terms of quality.





If you are getting bad results please submit the .cpfx profile file, So we can look at the measurement data.

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post #3682 of 3710 Old 12-14-2019, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
If you are getting bad results please submit the .cpfx profile file, So we can look at the measurement data.
Uploaded also .cpfx files to my results.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58956400

Naturally posted feedback also to PD like betatesters should do.
Hope you find something what I have done wrong, so I could make another calibration.
(However followed your instructions and workflow settings so I didn´t make anything strange adjustments)

Will continue this at 2019 LG Calibration thread, sorry.



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Creating SDR 3dlut for madvr with DisplayCal and LG B8

This is an experiment in which I want(ed) to compare 2 results:
- 0. created 3dlut with the factory values of TV (expert2 preset, I did it 6 months ago)
- 1. created 3dlut with the TV *after* full ddc reset (cinema preset): this has *not* been performed in calibration mode

In short: there's no big visible difference between the 2 results (of course it's not easy to switch between presets and 3dluts at the *same time*), if there's any.

PC settings: RGB 12bit Full range output, madvr 0-255, Black Level is High on TV
TV settings, cinema preset: reset to default, all the crap is disabled, oled light 34 (end result ~120 nits), contrast 85, brightness 50,
gamma 2.2, wide, warm2

Creating full ddc reset with aiopylgtv (that resets 1dlut, 2 3dluts (bt709, bt2020) , 2 3x3gamutdata (bt709, bt2020), 1d_2_2_en, 1d_0_45_en):
Code:
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.78 start_calibration cinema
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.78 ddc_reset cinema
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.78 end_calibration cinema
About the attached setting (that are used for case 1.):
- madvr SDR profile was selected
- "White level drift comp" is *not* selected, instead
- 3s BFI is used after every patch and
- "Patch sequence" is set to "Maximize luma diff"
- "Interactive measurement" is disabled on Calibration tab (since we don't have 1dlut in the TV) and
- "Gamma curve" is set to "measured" and
- "Embed calibration curves in profile" is selected
- "Apply calibration (vcgt)" is selected on 3dlut tab

Verification results (there's 1 html file in the attached zip file):
- gamma is not that good at the 2 ends, especially higher end (white)
- color balance and temperature not that good at the lower end

I also tried out the following changes to the used settings, but the result was quite similar, although a bit worse:
- "White level drift comp" is selected with only 0.3s BFI
- "Patch sequence" is set back to default ("Max display response")

Next, and probably last, I'll try to do a full calibration @2.4 gamma on Calibration tab.
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Last edited by chros73; 12-23-2019 at 04:14 AM.
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post #3684 of 3710 Old 12-27-2019, 01:57 PM
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This was a labour of love and I didn't manage to finish it for Wednesday but it's still the holidays for some, so I wasn't going to sit on it for a full year!



Thanks to you all for your help and being such a great community.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

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post #3685 of 3710 Old 12-27-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This was a labour of love and I didn't manage to finish it for Wednesday but it's still the holidays for some, so I wasn't going to sit on it for a full year!







Thanks to you all for your help and being such a great community.


That’s impressive with such a low dE too!


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post #3686 of 3710 Old 12-29-2019, 03:14 AM
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Creating SDR 3dlut for madvr with DisplayCal and LG B8

Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
This is an experiment in which I want(ed) to compare 2 results:
- 0. created 3dlut with the factory values of TV (expert2 preset, I did it 6 months ago)
- 1. created 3dlut with the TV *after* full ddc reset (cinema preset): this has *not* been performed in calibration mode

In short: there's no big visible difference between the 2 results (of course it's not easy to switch between presets and 3dluts at the *same time*), if there's any.

PC settings: RGB 12bit Full range output, madvr 0-255, Black Level is High on TV
TV settings, cinema preset: reset to default, all the crap is disabled, oled light 34 (end result ~120 nits), contrast 85, brightness 50,
gamma 2.2, wide, warm2

Creating full ddc reset with aiopylgtv (that resets 1dlut, 2 3dluts (bt709, bt2020) , 2 3x3gamutdata (bt709, bt2020), 1d_2_2_en, 1d_0_45_en):
Code:
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.78 start_calibration cinema
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.78 ddc_reset cinema
aiopylgtvcommand 192.168.1.78 end_calibration cinema
...
Next, and probably last, I'll try to do a full calibration @2.4 gamma on Calibration tab.
Another try (maybe 4th or 5th ), this time calibration is done as well, (that are used for case 1., see attached images):
- madvr SDR profile was selected
- "White level drift comp" is selected
- 0.5s BFI is used after every patch
- "Interactive measurement" is disabled on Calibration tab (since we don't have 1dlut in the TV) and
- "Tone curve" is set to "gamma 2.4"
- on 3dlut tab "Apply calibration (vcgt)" is selected on 3dlut tab and
- "Tone curve" is set to "gamma 2.4"

Verification results (there's 1 html file in the attached zip file), so far these settings resulted in the best result (out of those unity1dlut+unity3dlut tries):
- gamma is still not good at the 2 ends, especially higher end (white), but better than it was
- color balance and temperature not that good at the lower end, otherwise aligned pretty well

What "interesting" is that although the above numbers/curves doesn't look that bad, but when I checked AVSHD BT.709 white and color clipping patterns, almost all the bars were visible on the whole image (see attachement).

This gave me the idea of using "TV RGB 16-235 (clip WTW)" for "Input encoding" on 3dlut tab, that fixed the clipping issues but at the same time:
- lowered the color temp to 6433K, and indeed the image gets visibly warmer with real content
- screwed up the gamma and rgb gray balance a bit

So, I guess that was my last try using unity1dlut+unity3dlut.
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File Type: zip Verification.zip (89.3 KB, 5 views)

Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v385.28),Win10 LTSB 1607,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED65B8(04.10.25+PC4:4:[email protected]/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz)

Last edited by chros73; 12-29-2019 at 03:23 AM.
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post #3687 of 3710 Old 01-05-2020, 12:24 AM
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Hi Guys,


I just did my 1st HDR calibration via SM WB. Special thanks to Ted to make this happened! My LG OLED C8 has never been better!
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post #3688 of 3710 Old 01-05-2020, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
I just did my 1st HDR calibration via SM WB.
What does that even mean?

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post #3689 of 3710 Old 01-05-2020, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santodx5 View Post
I just did my 1st HDR calibration via SM WB. Special thanks to Ted to make this happened! My LG OLED C8 has never been better!
That's excellent! Great to see. This is why this is such a great community, people sharing knowledge etc!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
What does that even mean?
ok, here goes!
SM = Service Menu.
WB = White Balance.

Last year (funny saying that!), @ConnecTEDDD advocated a method of calibration where instead of using the 1DLUT and 3DLUT, or the user menu's 2-point WB controls, you instead use the SM 2pt WB, and leave the factory 1DLUT and default user menu's 2pt WB set at defaults. (then use 3DLUT as before for SDR).

This has two major benefits:
  1. the TV performs less processing because it isn't adjusting the WB in many different places -> less banding.
  2. because the slots in the SM for WB are used as foundations for SDR, HDR10/HLG and Dolby Vision, this is a way to improve Dolby Vision accuracy without being lucky enough to have a bit-accurate laptop, a HDFury, and/or a ridiculously over-priced pattern generator (which is what you would otherwise need to calibrate Dolby Vision on these TVs).

Tedd mentioned it here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57774966

It was (2) which got me very excited, to be honest. There was more discussion in September, October and November. If you're new to this thread and/or calibration, it really does pay off to read the whole thread, even though it is a slog and will take you time.

One well-meaning user tried to summarise this method in a nice list for Calman users, and the most recent version of that checklist is from 13th Nov 2019, here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58817034

HTH

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs

Last edited by mrtickleuk; 01-05-2020 at 06:16 AM.
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post #3690 of 3710 Old 01-05-2020, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
That's excellent! Great to see. This is why this is such a great community, people sharing knowledge etc!



ok, here goes!
SM = Service Menu.
WB = White Balance.

Last year (funny saying that!), @ConnecTEDDD advocated a method of calibration where instead of using the 1DLUT and 3DLUT, or the user menu's 2-point WB controls, you instead use the SM 2pt WB, and leave the factory 1DLUT and default user menu's 2pt WB set at defaults. (then use 3DLUT as before for SDR).

This has two major benefits:
  1. the TV performs less processing because it isn't adjusting the WB in many different places -> less banding.
  2. because the slots in the SM for WB are used as foundations for SDR, HDR10/HLG and Dolby Vision, this is a way to improve Dolby Vision accuracy without being lucky enough to have a bit-accurate laptop, a HDFury, and/or a ridiculously over-priced pattern generator (which is what you would otherwise need to calibrate Dolby Vision on these TVs).

Tedd mentioned it here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57774966

It was (2) which got me very excited, to be honest. There was more discussion in September, October and November. If you're new to this thread and/or calibration, it really does pay off to read the whole thread, even though it is a slog and will take you time.

One well-meaning user tried to summarise this method in a nice list for Calman users, and the most recent version of that checklist is from 13th Nov 2019, here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58817034

HTH
What's interesting, years ago, we always went into the service menu and calibrated the WP. Usually the calibration controls didn't work very well. Now what's supposed to happen is if you are able to generate a good 1D LUT, it's supposed to replace the WP settings. But I agree, setting the WP in the SM gives you the ability to set up HDR and DV pretty well without the use of an expensive TPG.

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