2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2553Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #391 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 02:30 AM
Ips
Member
 
Ips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
I have two questions: 1-why did you choose display type "Oled"? Are you sure that display are a truly WRGB Oled display? On CalMAN Oled display it was Oled RGB in old version I don't know on the new release. But anyway it doesn't matter if you use an spectrophotometer correction matrix for HDR and DV you should use a "RAW" Display type.

2-The frame insertion in HDR mode I wouldn't use a Full 20%... Try with a black 0%.

3-Most important thing meter delay 1,5 seconds for HDR mode I think also is too much probably you have to decrease that to min. 0,75.

Give it a try and let us Know how it goes
Tyler recommended 20% full field pattern insertion recently.

Where does your suggestion for using 0% come from?

Ivan Samuel
isfCalibration
Ips is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #392 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 02:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
BlackJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ips View Post
Tyler recommended 20% full field pattern insertion recently.



Where does your suggestion for using 0% come from?


From many many tests he others and I did on the 2016 models. We tested many different pattern Inseration values and 0% is the best method to cool down the panel.
L30Z3N likes this.

TV: LG OLED 65C8 Sources: Apple TV 4K, OPPO UDP-203 Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: Klein K10-A, i1 Display Pro OEM Rev.B (2018), i1Pro2 OEM Rev.E Software: Lightspace HTP, Calman 2019 Ultimate
BlackJoker is offline  
post #393 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 02:50 AM
Ips
Member
 
Ips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
From many many tests he others and I did on the 2016 models. We tested many different pattern Inseration values and 0% is the best method to cool down the panel.
I have no doubt 0% will cool the display more quickly.

What does it do for the image retention induced by the window patterns when calibrating HDR and DV?

Ivan Samuel
isfCalibration
Ips is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #394 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 02:53 AM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
I have two questions: 1-why did you choose display type "Oled"? Are you sure that display are a truly WRGB Oled display? On CalMAN Oled display it was Oled RGB in old version I don't know on the new release. But anyway it doesn't matter if you use an spectrophotometer correction matrix for HDR and DV you should use a "RAW" Display type.

2-The frame insertion in HDR mode I wouldn't use a Full 20%... Try with a black 0%.

3-Most important thing meter delay 1,5 seconds for HDR mode I think also is too much probably you have to decrease that to min. 0,75.

Give it a try and let us Know how it goes
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRobotoPlus View Post
^^ Tyler suggested to use LED LCD for WOLED LG in Calman.
Thanks for the input. I have my meter profiled with a i1Pro, but I will give the LED LCD Display type a try. With the meter beeing profiled, does the display type setting make any difference at all?

Regarding the frame insertion and delay settings, I will give it a try this evening here and report back. Thanks, Robert
L30Z3N likes this.
robbeh81 is offline  
post #395 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 03:24 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
From many many tests he others and I did on the 2016 models. We tested many different pattern Inseration values and 0% is the best method to cool down the panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ips View Post
I have no doubt 0% will cool the display more quickly.

What does it do for the image retention induced by the window patterns when calibrating HDR and DV?
It dipend of the single display itself, like my set, neither in HDR mode during calibration reading Grayscale and colorchecker it doesn't happen. But I saw others displays with image retention issues, only reading a simple grayscale 21 points in SDR mode, really weird by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
Thanks for the input. I have my meter profiled with a i1Pro, but I will give the LED LCD Display type a try. With the meter beeing profiled, does the display type setting make any difference at all?

Regarding the frame insertion and delay settings, I will give it a try this evening here and report back. Thanks, Robert
If you use an i1pro2 consider to do two differents profiles corrections, both at exactly the same point of the readings.

One contact mode other one distance mode in a very dark room (obviously) spectrometer at 17cm then colorimeter (i1D3) at 13cm or less... Consider this only like a test for try find out best compromisse solutions.

@Ips : My friend @BlackJoker answered for me but anyway I gave @robbeh81 just an advice and nothing more I'm not a professional calibrator I just trust to what I've been trying many times on my set.

LCD LED has a different spectral light you don't need to use it if you have an spectrophotometer already, at least that is what I understood too using CalMAN not many years until now.
BlackJoker likes this.

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310

Last edited by L30Z3N; 05-02-2018 at 05:55 AM.
L30Z3N is offline  
post #396 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 03:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
BlackJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked: 522
Absolutely correct if you have a 1pro2 for profiling it's not necessary to use the LED profile which makes no sense. I don't own a id3 anymore but the XYZ RAW profile fits best use this for profile if it's available in the latest CalMAN versions as a starting point for your profiling.
L30Z3N likes this.

TV: LG OLED 65C8 Sources: Apple TV 4K, OPPO UDP-203 Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: Klein K10-A, i1 Display Pro OEM Rev.B (2018), i1Pro2 OEM Rev.E Software: Lightspace HTP, Calman 2019 Ultimate
BlackJoker is offline  
post #397 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 05:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 629
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 212
This is what Tyler said on DV Calibration Thread answering at the same question:

Quote:
Is there a reason to select LCD LED as target display while calibrating an LG OLED?
Quote:
It is the closest meter profile to WOLED if you don’t have a spectro to create your own profile.

If you look at the SPD, white LED and White OLED are very similar.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post56056312

Video: LG OLED 55 B7v | Calibration: i1D3 OEM, Calman Enthusiast.
Audio: Yamaha RX-V585, Polk s15e, Polk s10e, Polk s35ce, Atmos Dynavoice Magix FX-4, 2x Sub DIY Dayton RSS210HF Ported | Calibration: MiniDSP, UMIK-1, REW
MrRobotoPlus is offline  
post #398 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 07:18 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRobotoPlus View Post
This is what Tyler said on DV Calibration Thread answering at the same question:





https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post56056312
Calibration display is not a simple thing, there's many variabilities and you will miss the "target reference" because to me it means only this. If so if I have a colorimeter like a i1D3 this one it need to be "corrected" by a reference spectrophotometer if is possible, on the interested display. Also a Klein-10A by the way. Just I'm saying all colorimeters has errors and all of them are very different, mostly with less differences others with big differences and until you try to see this differences, only with a reference spectro will show this.

If you have a friend with a spectrophotometer you can ask him for it or someone else to send your i1D3 to be corrected in a C8 Oled display. It Will be more useful than using a generic profile display.

P.S: By the way also the spectro's need to be retified over a year more or less, they soffer changes over time and it can be insignificant or not but this is also "part of the game" and it can't be ignored.

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310

Last edited by L30Z3N; 05-02-2018 at 06:04 AM.
L30Z3N is offline  
post #399 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 07:43 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 629
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
Calibration display is not a simple thing, there's many variabilities and you will miss the "target reference" because to me it means only this. If so if I have a colorimeter like a i1D3 this one it need to be "corrected" by a reference spectrophotometer if is possible, on the interested display. Also a Klein-10A by the way. Just I'm saying all colorimeters has errors and all of them are very different, mostly with less differences others with big differences and until you try to see this differences, only with a reference spectro will show this.

If you have friend with a spectrophotometer you can ask him or someone to send your i1D3 to be corrected in a C8 Oled display. It Will be more useful than using a generic profile display I think.

P.S: By the way also the spectro's need to be retified over a year more or less, they soffer changes over time and it can be insignificant or not but this is also "part of the game" and it can't be ignored.
Obviously the meter must be profiled. You are not telling nothing new. For those like me that can't profile the meter is better to follow Tyler's recommendation. Above Tyler, only GOD (about Calman).
MrRobotoPlus is offline  
post #400 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 10:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,241
Mentioned: 282 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1960 Post(s)
Liked: 2562
2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

I think most of the problems that people are having are related to ABSL.

I highly recommend buying an LG service remote or programming a Harmony so you can shut it off during calibration.

ABSL Works by detecting APL changes. That is why I suggested 20% pattern insertion so it resets ABSL.

Also configuring your meter for a five second exposure for low light handler, probably causes a problem with the pattern insertion that is also set to 5 second interval.

Tyler

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - Portrait Displays/Calman
WiFi-Spy is online now  
post #401 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 11:33 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
If so, who doesn't have any service remote should they use a full field pattern insertion 20% to defeat ASBL?

And who doesn't have any spectro reference to use a LCD LED generic profile as well, is this what are you suggesting?

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310
L30Z3N is offline  
post #402 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 12:33 PM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Hi,

based on your suggestions I now performed a new attempt to Autocal HDR10 on my C8. I reduced the pattern delay time, also reduced the intergration time of my meter, and I changed the pattern insertion amount to 0%. All this did not really help for me. But I found an other setting regarding my Linker, it was set to output RGB 16-235, I changed to RGB 0-255 and the odd patterns at and below 15% were gone...



Okay, one problem solved. Now I had success in 1D LUT calibration which went through flawlessly. But, as the post-cal verfication shows, the luminance seems off.



Additionally, 3D LUT (Matrix LUT as recommended in the workflow) oversaturated all colors.



My guess is, that the target colorspace might be wrong. Maybe I should choose D65,P3 instead? Additionally, is the target EOTF correct?



Thanks, Robert
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3FB3F6BE-6B7C-4345-99D9-DB6C0C49E257.jpeg
Views:	893
Size:	62.9 KB
ID:	2397080   Click image for larger version

Name:	5EC8DC16-D08F-435D-B652-3D40662FD995.jpeg
Views:	1668
Size:	280.7 KB
ID:	2397082   Click image for larger version

Name:	C5AEC54B-4F24-4021-98BB-034D087372B7.jpeg
Views:	838
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	2397084   Click image for larger version

Name:	561E1274-3C15-4E86-940D-69D06307C98A.jpeg
Views:	919
Size:	314.8 KB
ID:	2397086  
zielin and L30Z3N like this.
robbeh81 is offline  
post #403 of 3757 Old 04-29-2018, 03:12 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
Hi,

were you able to resolve this Problem? I tried HDR10 Autocal with the i1Display pro and the Videoforge HDMI / HDFury Linker today for the first time and ran into exactly the same issue. Autocal fails due to odd blueish patterns. This whole Autocal thing seems to be a very sensitive case, at least for the beginner... Any other thoughts? Thanks.

Robert
I did get it resolved. I ended up deleting Calman and re installed it on my computer. Once I re ran the hdr tracked like normal. Not sure what the issue was but that worked for me. Good luck!
Pwondrak32 is offline  
post #404 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 02:25 AM
Member
 
Dimitri_ISF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 15
About the service remote.

Is this the one to use?.

https://www.amazon.com/MKJ39170828-R...service+remote

Thanks.

D.
Dimitri_ISF is offline  
post #405 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 05:17 AM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Supplement to my last post, should I have hit Autocal in this screen, I see it is not grayed out?



My knowledge would definitely benefit from the video walkthroughs Tyler announced. Not clear to me what happens in HDR/DV workflows yet.

Thanks, Robert
L30Z3N likes this.

LG OLED C8
Calman 5 Home Enthusiast
i1Display (post 2017) profiled with i1Pro
VF HDMI, HDFury Integral, HDFury Linker
robbeh81 is offline  
post #406 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 06:17 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I think most of the problems that people are having are related to ABSL.

I highly recommend buying an LG service remote or programming a Harmony so you can shut it off during calibration.

ABSL Works by detecting APL changes. That is why I suggested 20% pattern insertion so it resets ABSL.

Also configuring your meter for a five second exposure for low light handler, probably causes a problem with the pattern insertion that is also set to 5 second interval.

Tyler
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
Hi,

based on your suggestions I now performed a new attempt to Autocal HDR10 on my C8. I reduced the pattern delay time, also reduced the intergration time of my meter, and I changed the pattern insertion amount to 0%. All this did not really help for me. But I found an other setting regarding my Linker, it was set to output RGB 16-235, I changed to RGB 0-255 and the odd patterns at and below 15% were gone...



Okay, one problem solved. Now I had success in 1D LUT calibration which went through flawlessly. But, as the post-cal verfication shows, the luminance seems off.



Additionally, 3D LUT (Matrix LUT as recommended in the workflow) oversaturated all colors.



My guess is, that the target colorspace might be wrong. Maybe I should choose D65,P3 instead? Additionally, is the target EOTF correct?



Thanks, Robert

Bravo! Now you have a full range output from your pattern generator and your linker that's right?

Another really important thing. I don't know Mobile VideoForge which kind of output signal it is, but in my pattern Generator is a "truly" RGB FULL (0-255) Then under CalMAN the triplets for example SDR mode are limited 16-235 properly set.

So make sure your generator is properly set on RGB full as well.

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310
L30Z3N is offline  
post #407 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 06:25 AM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.

LG OLED C8
Calman 5 Home Enthusiast
i1Display (post 2017) profiled with i1Pro
VF HDMI, HDFury Integral, HDFury Linker
robbeh81 is offline  
post #408 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 06:37 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.
Good... Now remain the "question" why those insane higher luminances and saturstion dE's to find out a solution. Really weird

Edit:

I forgot to ask you about which display profile did you use for create XYZ matrix corrections WRGB under HDR mode?

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310

Last edited by L30Z3N; 04-30-2018 at 06:40 AM.
L30Z3N is offline  
post #409 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 07:20 AM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
Good... Now remain the "question" why those insane higher luminances and saturstion dE's to find out a solution. Really weird

Edit:

I forgot to ask you about which display profile did you use for create XYZ matrix corrections WRGB under HDR mode?
Do you mean that I must profile my meter again for HDR? I just used the correction matrix I created w/ my i1Pro in SDR mode.
L30Z3N likes this.
robbeh81 is offline  
post #410 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 07:27 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
Good... Now remain the "question" why those insane higher luminances and saturstion dE's to find out a solution. Really weird

Edit:

I forgot to ask you about which display profile did you use for create XYZ matrix corrections WRGB under HDR mode?
Can you show us a simple readings of your HDR10 C8 without running Autocal? In few words the Technicolor at defaults settings...

This ones are mine from my B6 at defaults values:

The profile it was made under RAW ZYX display type.







P.S: Another question: which color gamut do you choose on your C8 Technicolor picture mode? It seems like your CalMAN 18 release are showing differents targets points too, in comparison with last 17 R2 version...
Tone mapping or dynamic tone mapping is also disable?

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310

Last edited by L30Z3N; 04-30-2018 at 07:59 AM.
L30Z3N is offline  
post #411 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 08:12 AM
Member
 
L30Z3N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
Do you mean that I must profile my meter again for HDR? I just used the correction matrix I created w/ my i1Pro in SDR mode.
Teorically yes because WRGB coordinates in HDR10 mode are a bit different vs SDR mode. Anyways there is something wrong in your CalMAN settings or somewhere else because those dE's are definitely wired.
Rolls-Royce likes this.

TV LG 55B6v SB Samsung F355 TV2-Monitor Samsung UE32C6510 ColorimeterX-Rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro (Rev B-02 Profiled by JETI 1211) Pattern Generator Raspberry Pi3 3DLUT BOX Truvue eeColor Router Netgear R7000+Open DD-WRT MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2009 SSD+HDD Console XboxOne S 1TB GoW4 Bundle Blu-ray Player Sony UBP-X800 - Panasonic DMP-UB310
L30Z3N is offline  
post #412 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 09:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 4,819
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1498 Post(s)
Liked: 1589
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.
If I remember correctly, the Linker can upscale resolution, but not change colorspace. It is merely sending info in the HDR infoframe that Bt.2020 is part of the signal so the TV maps the RGB triplets to 2020.

The Integral can send the same infoframe with the same result at the TV, and it is in no way, shape, or form a scaler.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #413 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 10:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,241
Mentioned: 282 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1960 Post(s)
Liked: 2562
2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.


Can we see your CalMAN source tab to see how you have the VF HDMI pattern generator configured?

I think there’s a levels Mismatch somewhere in your setup.

I will be making video tutorials this week starting with SDR.

The HDR calibration process on the 2018 LG’s is very similar to the Dolby Vision calibration process on the 2017 models. We are calibrating the panel in Gamma mode with the HDR mapping turned off.

I would also highly suggest buying the service remote to disable the ABSL During calibration and then re-enabling it after you’re done.

The remote is only $12 on Amazon or you can program a Harmony remote If you already have one. You need to access the command called “in start”

Tyler
Pwondrak32 likes this.

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - Portrait Displays/Calman
WiFi-Spy is online now  
post #414 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 10:39 AM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
If I remember correctly, the Linker can upscale resolution, but not change colorspace. It is merely sending info in the HDR infoframe that Bt.2020 is part of the signal so the TV maps the RGB triplets to 2020.

The Integral can send the same infoframe with the same result at the TV, and it is in no way, shape, or form a scaler.
As I wrote in here I was not able to switch my TV into HDR10/BT2020 mode properly using my integral, so I invested even more money in the linker which seems to work.
L30Z3N likes this.

LG OLED C8
Calman 5 Home Enthusiast
i1Display (post 2017) profiled with i1Pro
VF HDMI, HDFury Integral, HDFury Linker
robbeh81 is offline  
post #415 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 10:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 4,819
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1498 Post(s)
Liked: 1589
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
As I wrote in here I was not able to switch my TV into HDR10/BT2020 mode properly using my integral, so I invested even more money in the linker which seems to work.
I'm willing to bet that if you compared the AVI data that both the Integral and the Linker were actually sending in your setup, that you'd find there's a difference somewhere. In fact, if you look at the pictures you posted of the Integral GUI, below the box for "Custom AVI IF", there is an example of what data must be sent to force the TV into the BT2020 Color Space. It isn't what is in the box itself.

As I mentioned, the Linker cannot change the color space - that info is straight from the folks at HDFury. That capability requires additional hardware and processing that the Linker simply doesn't have.
L30Z3N likes this.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931

Last edited by Rolls-Royce; 04-30-2018 at 11:11 AM.
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #416 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 11:01 AM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Can we see your CalMAN source tab to see how you have the VF HDMI pattern generator configured?

I think there’s a levels Mismatch somewhere in your setup.

I will be making video tutorials this week starting with SDR.

The HDR calibration process on the 2018 LG’s is very similar to the Dolby Vision calibration process on the 2017 models. We are calibrating the panel in Gamma mode with the HDR mapping turned off.

I would also highly suggest buying the service remote to disable the ABSL During calibration and then re-enabling it after you’re done.

The remote is only $12 on Amazon or you can program a Harmony remote If you already have one. You need to access the command called “in start”

Tyler
Please refer to the settings I posted here: post56109714 with modifications posted here: post56113240

BTW I just ordered the remote. I think its remarkable that one would need a hidden menu setting to properly utilize an officially advertised feature ... and does using it void my warranty?
Additionally, many of the problems could be solved if each workflow in Calman would automatically suggest valid settings like gamma target, color space, pattern settings, ... and regarding LG autocal, I think LG/SpectraCal missed the chance to provide a built-in pattern generator, some kind of Calman Client app built into the TV, automatically switching the set into the right mode (including ABSL) and showing the desired patterns. To be honest, I start to regret spending so much money as I do not have so much time fiddling around with TV calibration ... but I am still willing to learn and keep on my try and error research. And thanks for all the input so far..

Robert
ebr9999 and L30Z3N like this.

LG OLED C8
Calman 5 Home Enthusiast
i1Display (post 2017) profiled with i1Pro
VF HDMI, HDFury Integral, HDFury Linker

Last edited by robbeh81; 04-30-2018 at 11:20 AM.
robbeh81 is offline  
post #417 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 12:13 PM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I'm willing to bet that if you compared the AVI data that both the Integral and the Linker were actually sending in your setup, that you'd find there's a difference somewhere. In fact, if you look at the pictures you posted of the Integral GUI, below the box for "Custom AVI IF", there is an example of what data must be sent to force the TV into the BT2020 Color Space. It isn't what is in the box itself.

As I mentioned, the Linker cannot change the color space - that info is straight from the folks at HDFury. That capability requires additional hardware and processing that the Linker simply doesn't have.
There are two approaches to control the integral, in the post you are referring to, I used the Calman direct control. So in the moment I turn on HDR10 in Calman the Integral should send the right Regardless what is written in the box. At least the guide Spectracal provides does not mention that one must change this box.
The other approach is to use AvTopController and copy/paste the IF and metadata Calman generates to the integral GUI. I tried both with no success.
Now it seems to turn out that the linker simply cannot output the right colorspace, although the TV switches to it. I cannot justify spending so much money on the VideoForge Pro, not to me, nor to my wife. Getting more and more frustated.

LG OLED C8
Calman 5 Home Enthusiast
i1Display (post 2017) profiled with i1Pro
VF HDMI, HDFury Integral, HDFury Linker
robbeh81 is offline  
post #418 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 12:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 4,819
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1498 Post(s)
Liked: 1589
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
There are two approaches to control the integral, in the post you are referring to, I used the Calman direct control. So in the moment I turn on HDR10 in Calman the Integral should send the right Regardless what is written in the box. At least the guide Spectracal provides does not mention that one must change this box.
The other approach is to use AvTopController and copy/paste the IF and metadata Calman generates to the integral GUI. I tried both with no success.
Now it seems to turn out that the linker simply cannot output the right colorspace, although the TV switches to it. I cannot justify spending so much money on the VideoForge Pro, not to me, nor to my wife. Getting more and more frustated.
I understand that you are frustrated. Calibration - even with an autocal routine - can be complicated even on sets that only can do SDR. Add in HDR and the peculiarities of OLED, and it's even worse.

I still believe you had issues with your initial setup of the Integral, or perhaps you got a defective one (try posting on the Integral thread in the Video Processors section about your issue). I own the Integral, Linker, and Vertex, and have successfully used both the Integral - with the GUI, with AVTop Controller software, and within CalMAN - and Linker for HDR calibration of my Samsung KS. All 3 will send the correct metadata to put a TV into HDR mode if properly set up. I don't have an LG 8-series OLED, so cannot see for myself what CalMAN's routine automatically sets the Integral to. It's doubtful that it does, since every pattern generator source I've used with CalMAN has to be set by the user for certain things (resolution, bit depth, etc.). But anything you change or improperly set in the dropdown menus will be reflected in what is sent to the TV.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #419 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 01:38 PM
Member
 
robbeh81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I understand that you are frustrated. Calibration - even with an autocal routine - can be complicated even on sets that only can do SDR. Add in HDR and the peculiarities of OLED, and it's even worse.

I still believe you had issues with your initial setup of the Integral, or perhaps you got a defective one (try posting on the Integral thread in the Video Processors section about your issue). I own the Integral, Linker, and Vertex, and have successfully used both the Integral - with the GUI, with AVTop Controller software, and within CalMAN - and Linker for HDR calibration of my Samsung KS. All 3 will send the correct metadata to put a TV into HDR mode if properly set up. I don't have an LG 8-series OLED, so cannot see for myself what CalMAN's routine automatically sets the Integral to. It's doubtful that it does, since every pattern generator source I've used with CalMAN has to be set by the user for certain things (resolution, bit depth, etc.). But anything you change or improperly set in the dropdown menus will be reflected in what is sent to the TV.
My frustation is not your fault, nor is it the fault of the other forum members, of course. I posted screenshots of all my settings previously and I am willing to set things by hand (although Autocal suggests you wouldˋt have to), I know my settings must be wrong but I cannot figure out which ones. Calman and especially LG Autocal workflows lack of documentation and background information to enable new users like me to perform proper calibration after some reading.
zielin and mrtickleuk like this.

LG OLED C8
Calman 5 Home Enthusiast
i1Display (post 2017) profiled with i1Pro
VF HDMI, HDFury Integral, HDFury Linker

Last edited by robbeh81; 04-30-2018 at 01:45 PM.
robbeh81 is offline  
post #420 of 3757 Old 04-30-2018, 06:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,241
Mentioned: 282 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1960 Post(s)
Liked: 2562
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
My frustation is not your fault, nor is it the fault of the other forum members, of course. I posted screenshots of all my settings previously and I am willing to set things by hand (although Autocal suggests you wouldˋt have to), I know my settings must be wrong but I cannot figure out which ones. Calman and especially LG Autocal workflows lack of documentation and background information to enable new users like me to perform proper calibration after some reading.
I apologize for the lack of documentation. We are currently working on it and working on tutorial videos for the LG integration with CalMAN. We tried to be as explicit as possible in the LG workflows themselves, however we understand everyone doesn't have the same calibration equipment, which can cause the configuration needed to be different.

Most of the issues seem to be ABSL related. in SDR the pattern insertion is used to defeat the ABSL algorithm, in HDR it needs to keep the panel cool, and defeat the ABSL algorithm. It seems like the recommend configuration isn't working for everyone, so that will need to be revised, but for the time being, the easiest thing for people to eliminate that as the cause of their issues, would be to temporarily disable ABSL in the service menu during calibration (something that most pro calibrators have been doing for years on LG OLEDs). Then to re-enable it after calibration.

I will try to replicate your exact setup - VF HDMI + HDFURY Integral (I only have an Integral and Vertex) + i1 Display Pro - and see if I can figure out what is going wrong.

Tyler
L30Z3N likes this.

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - Portrait Displays/Calman
WiFi-Spy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off