2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Although this is great as a comparison, let's see how Calman eventually shakes out.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] What's driving my interest is i want a calibration system that gives results similar to eeColor, for example, that pro and enthusiasts can use for a greater number of people in a reasonable amount of time.


After thinking about it, i can calibrate sets all day, every day, manually and get great results that most "pickey" users will find great but i would really like to see calibration technology improve so we can go beyond what we can do manually now and doesn't require special "boxes", etc.. to achieve it. Just think if Sony, along with LG and Samsung opened up their sets and the results were "good", not reference, but what i call "good enough" for an enthusiast type user in a home setting? That would be an evolutionary step towards getting to "Reference" some day without using external equipment. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Hi John, I’m sure all of us have the exact same desire: an automated software that requires just a few things from the human (we don’t wanna Skynet calibrating our TV’s, right? lol). But as it’s a machine to machine relationship I won’t be satisfied with a good results, I want the software to squeeze the best possible from the TV. Ok, I could be satisfied with a “only” good result in a beta version, but the final should aim for the best.
I’m still wondering why Panasonic don’t grant access to TV Lut’s on all its TV’s... Do they thing the mass is gonna buy the EZ1000/1002 instead?

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post #722 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 12:34 PM
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Question to the guys that have both calman and lightspace. As you saw calman when it runs patches it stores 3dluts in a directory as ted show in calibration thread so the question is just before you sent the calibration to tv from calman if you can replace this 3dluts with a good 3dlut from lightspace and then hit upload the calibration to the tv.
Does anyone tried that trick or it is not doable?
Hi, CalMAN 2018 with a connected LG 2018 OLED, it will give you the option from inside CM window to upload/browse for a LUT, so it will open you the folder where all the 3dl files are located, but when you will select one...even your original 3dl file, the one CalMAN creates for your own display... it will display to you an error, so its broken feature currently, BlackJoker reported that issue last week:

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@WiFi-Spy I found a LUT upload button inside the DDC interface but unfortunately it's not working. I tried to upload my 3D LUT from my last measurements. I get these errors:



Can we expect a way to upload the .3dl files again?

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post #723 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 12:37 PM
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Are we sure that it’s a bug? I don’t wanna be the mood breaker but I fear that key is gonna disappear in the next CalMAN release.

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post #724 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, CalMAN 2018 with a connected LG 2018 OLED, it will give you the option from inside CM window to upload/browse for a LUT, so it will open you the folder where all the 3dl files are located, but when you will select one...even your original 3dl file, the one CalMAN creates for your own display... it will display to you an error, so its broken feature currently, BlackJoker reported that issue last week:
No i didnt mean that. What i mean is not to open anything for upload from calman. You allready know where calman have this files so you do the measures from calman and you replace the idl MANUALY from windows explorer with the one from lightspace and then you tell to calman to upload the calibration.
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post #725 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
No i didnt mean that. What i mean is not to open anything for upload from calman. You allready know where calman have this files so you do the measures from calman and you replace the idl MANUALY from windows explorer with the one from lightspace and then you tell to calman to upload the calibration.
The 3D LUT will be uploaded to the TV automatically after the end of the 3D LUT measurement/procedure, so at this stage you can't replace anything (you don't even know which will be the file name also). The 3dl files seems that its stored for backup reasons to that folder, for the user to upload it to his TV when it will be required, but 1D LUT has to be saved also, if you need a compete backup, because these 2 files are working together. Currently there no way to backup/save the 1D LUT table values.

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post #726 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 12:49 PM
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Bummer... thx m8... it was just a thought
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The 3D LUT will be uploaded to the TV automatically after the end of the 3D LUT measurement/procedure, so at this stage you can't replace anything (you don't even know which will be the file name also). The 3dl files seems that its store for backup reasons to that folder, for the user to upload it to his TV when it will be required, but 1D LUT has to be saved also, if you need a compete backup, because these 2 files are working together. Currently there no way to backup/save the 1D LUT table values.
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post #727 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 02:58 PM
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i'm looking forward to a new/beta/fixed calman and 10 hours sessions of "clicking"
I'm pretty sure it works better if i don't mute it.


... right? i'm pretty sure that is science.

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post #728 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Although this is great as a comparison, let's see how Calman eventually shakes out. What's driving my interest is i want a calibration system that gives results similar to eeColor, for example, that pro and enthusiasts can use for a greater number of people in a reasonable amount of time.
eeColor is a container for a LUT. Nothing more than that. However, it is a 65^3 container compared to the 33^3 LUT of the 2018 LGs. The LUT engine matters when it comes to creating a LUT, not the container. Unfortunately I’m not as optimistic as you that CalMan can ever match the LUT engine of LS.


Quote:
After thinking about it, i can calibrate sets all day, every day, manually and get great results that most "pickey" users will find great but i would really like to see calibration technology improve so we can go beyond what we can do manually now and doesn't require special "boxes", etc.. to achieve it. Just think if Sony, along with LG and Samsung opened up their sets and the results were "good", not reference, but what i call "good enough" for an enthusiast type user in a home setting? That would be an evolutionary step towards getting to "Reference" some day without using external equipment.
Long ways away from this and if manufacturers attempt to limit access to said LUT via exclusive agreements, it will definitely fail. Case and point.... BD bundling with certain TVs a few years ago.
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post #729 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
eeColor is a container for a LUT. Nothing more than that. However, it is a 65^3 container compared to the 33^3 LUT of the 2018 LGs. The LUT engine matters when it comes to creating a LUT, not the container. Unfortunately I’m not as optimistic as you that CalMan can ever match the LUT engine of LS..

The LG built-in LUT supports 4K, HDR, and DV is reporting for duty
I hope Calman gets there before the summer/fall timeframe when the C7 pricing gets real.


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post #730 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Are we sure that it’s a bug? I don’t wanna be the mood breaker but that I fear that key is gonna disappear in the next CalMAN release.


There is not a bug. If it isn’t loading then the header data or LUT file format is not matching. Nothing proprietary is going on here. If someone makes a .3dl LUT file that is compatible with the ones that CalMAN creates, it will work. This has been in CalMAN for years, Nothing has changed recently.
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post #731 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
The LG built-in LUT supports 4K, HDR, and DV is reporting for duty
I hope Calman gets there before the summer/fall timeframe when the C7 pricing gets real.


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You might want to look at the results for HDR/DV LUTs that have been discuss for the last two months. Anything beyond a 3x3 Matrix for colors is a complete no go. 42 point grayscale adjustments and 3x3 matrix color measuments does not equal a 3DLUT. Not even the Panasonic’s can do a real 3DLUT for HDR properly.
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post #732 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
eeColor is a container for a LUT. Nothing more than that. However, it is a 65^3 container compared to the 33^3 LUT of the 2018 LGs. The LUT engine matters when it comes to creating a LUT, not the container. Unfortunately I’m not as optimistic as you that CalMan can ever match the LUT engine of LS.



Long ways away from this and if manufacturers attempt to limit access to said LUT via exclusive agreements, it will definitely fail. Case and point.... BD bundling with certain TVs a few years ago.
Well you should know by now that i'm an optimist lol I understand the skepticism and the years of experience behind it but in all my time developing software all you need is one very bright individual to join your staff and sometimes the unachievable becomes achievable!

You never know and I guess we will just have to wait and see.
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post #733 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Well you should know by now that i'm an optimist lol I understand the skepticism and the years of experience behind it but in all my time developing software all you need is one very bright individual to join your staff and sometimes the unachievable becomes achievable!

You never know and I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Agreed and I hope it happens because it is dearly needed.
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post #734 of 3131 Old 05-22-2018, 05:37 PM
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Well you should know by now that i'm an optimist lol I understand the skepticism and the years of experience behind it but in all my time developing software all you need is one very bright individual to join your staff and sometimes the unachievable becomes achievable!

You never know and I guess we will just have to wait and see.
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post #735 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is not a bug. If it isn’t loading then the header data or LUT file format is not matching. Nothing proprietary is going on here. If someone makes a .3dl LUT file that is compatible with the ones that CalMAN creates, it will work. This has been in CalMAN for years, Nothing has changed recently.
Thanks for this confirmation @WiFi-Spy and for your openness.

@BlackJoker Fabio, are you sure you were trying to upload the right 3dl file? If yes, then something is missing or blocked TV side.

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post #736 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is not a bug. If it isn’t loading then the header data or LUT file format is not matching. Nothing proprietary is going on here. If someone makes a .3dl LUT file that is compatible with the ones that CalMAN creates, it will work. This has been in CalMAN for years, Nothing has changed recently.
Did you ever used the program before? It's NOT possible to upload a 3.dl LUT which was created via CalMAN through this function I tried it many times and the result could be seen above if necessary I can also upload a Video showing this behavior. Maybe you can show us how this works in one of the instroductions videos you wanted to release where are they?. None of my CalMAN LUTs could be uploaded into the C8. But you and your team missed also the 107% gamut coverage bug the whole time so I advice you to test much better before you promise something which isn't workin at all.

I would like to share also deeper results from my LUT which I created with LightSpace compared to the one of CalMAN.

In CalMAN the 1D LUT was previously calibrated so to get a 0.2dE average you need 400-600 reads and 30-50 minutes with a C6 depending on the meter settings. In my opinion the 3D LUT job supposed to be a much smoother and easier job. I mean yes you hit the AutoCAL button but afterwards I have to manually adjust the top end so I see no benefit and it's time consuming.

For LightSpace I only set 2p high controls @ 100 IRE that's all and it only took 2 minutes.

The cube itself that CalMAN and the LG offering have a size of 33^3 (35937) while the eeColor offers 65^3 (274625) so much more points.

There is also a peak drop which I already mentioned in my previous post during the 3D LUT calibration with CalMAN which is quite nasty. So I adjust the peak output to ~120 nits to end up with ~100 nits at the end of the run. With LightSpace I adjust to display to 100 nits and at the end of the cube I have the excat same peak light output.

I compared my CalMAN LUT with the on from LightSpace it's normal to see lower gradation from the original files, since you see data reduction from original file so less digital levels mean less smooth gradation, the purpose of this test is to look for anomalies to the gradation and to spot issues a 3D LUT generation can provide. I think these animations speaks for them self. You need Firefox to see the animations.

For all of you who don't want to read all of this here are the key facts quick and dirty like the CM LUT:

- upload function in CalMAN not working
- oversaturation @ 100% saturation which ends in gamut coverage of 107%
- 1D LUT AutoCAL calibration and manual adjustmens afterwards necessary
- small cube size 33^3
- peak drop of 20% after 1D / 3D LUT
- artifacts, banding and desortions after 3D LUT see files attached


So everyone who want a accurate picture need two things: a eeColor and LightSpace!
Maybe someone is satisfied with the results that CalMAN is offering but this should not be the standard a seriously calibrator has.














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post #737 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 01:37 AM
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FYI: Your image animations also work with the chrome browser. Might have to click on the image first to get the animation started. Nothing shambolic about your images.
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post #738 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 02:02 AM
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You forgot to mention that the internal HDFury Integral support is broken for 2018 TVs. No backup function. Additionally, I am trying to calibrate my iMac screen with Calman and run into issues again. I will not elaborate on that...
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post #739 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 02:13 AM
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Cannot believe how bad the CalMan LUT is near black. Destroys it completely...

CalMan HAS to change the LUT engine, otherwise I doubt anybody who knows his stuff will ever use it on the LG TV´s/eecolor/LUT-holder...... But first they have to admit that the engine is f**** up, LightSpace and even the free displaycal are miles better when it comes to LUT-profiling. Denying the obvious problems will never help anybody, CalMan would benefit the most if they listen to their customers - or let me say it better, to the real enthusiasts and professionals.

I think nobody here would not use CalMan anymore if they admit that they were wrong. THIS would be a sign of customer care and that would be awesome, a lot of users here are ready to provide the data to get CalMan much better.

But hey, just my 2 cents
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post #740 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 02:50 AM
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CalMan HAS to change the LUT engine, otherwise I doubt anybody who knows his stuff will ever use it on the LG TV´s/eecolor/LUT-holder...... But first they have to admit that the engine is f**** up, LightSpace and even the free displaycal are miles better when it comes to LUT-profiling.
I don't think they have to admit that their 3D Lut engine is not accurate like other softwares. They did their best and if there's someone who did better that's not their fault, it's life. But surely, since the HT technology and market are finally moving fast on the 3D Lut, they MUST do something quick if they want to stay in business. It's not a easy task for them.

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Denying the obvious problems will never help anybody, CalMan would benefit the most if they listen to their customers - or let me say it better, to the real enthusiasts and professionals.
I'm totally with you here.

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I think nobody here would not use CalMan anymore if they admit that they were wrong. THIS would be a sign of customer care and that would be awesome, a lot of users here are ready to provide the data to get CalMan much better.
Once again, IMO, it's not a "hey I'm not good like others" admission that we need and, by the way, they already showed a sign, read HERE.

For my work experience, I would not be in their shoes. It's a bad situation when you do not yet have the resources to answer to the market and, even worse, you deny the evidence as a husband caught in bed with another woman ... "It's not like it seems! We were just doing gymnastics! What woman?!? The spoon does not exist!"
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post #741 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 09:07 AM
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But why nobody from portrait display showing a reaction in this thread? And don't count Tyler he didn't answered even one question and the users here need help and support and still nothing happened. No it's not their fault that even a free software like display cal is offering much better results but it's 107% their fault to leave us the paying customers unanswered back.
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post #742 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 10:55 AM
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But why nobody from portrait display showing a reaction in this thread? And don't count Tyler he didn't answered even one question and the users here need help and support and still nothing happened. No it's not their fault that even a free software like display cal is offering much better results but it's 107% their fault to leave us the paying customers unanswered back.


We are working on a fix. When a new beta version is ready we will post it to our forums, and I will link to it on here.
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post #743 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 02:47 PM
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I don't think anyone denies the fact that the eeColor box works really well. D-Nice posted his results many times. The problem is no HDR or DV
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The LG built-in LUT supports 4K, HDR, and DV is reporting for duty
Hi guys,

3D LUT for HDR doesn't exist in the world of consumer WRGB OLED's. You can't perform any kind of 3D LUT for HDR for many reasons.

Basically 3D LUT for Dolby Vision I don't think its possible, even Lumagen PRO can't pass Dolby Vision signal (passthrou is not possible also), if a company will try to release 3D LUT Box for DV, Dolby is not providing so easy the required license, for example Accupel DVG-6000 is waiting for months for that approval.

Since the processing is performed inside to the TV (for Dolby Vision), the TV has to be equipped for that 3D LUT capability, I don't see possible to apply 3D LUT before signal will enter to the TV, using external 3D LUT Box (unless Dolby release their own boxes for that job).

LG 2018 OLED's are supporting 3D LUT for SDR mode only, not for HDR10 or DV. You can't perform HDR10/DV 3D LUT with any kind of external 3D LUT Box with these WRGB OLED's.

Why you can't perform 3D LUT for HDR10 with WRGB OLED's

1) As explained very detailed to this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post56201380 the WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, this distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WOLEDs can never be calibrated for HDR... ...but can be calibrated with 3D LUT in SDR mode, the recommendation is up 105-110 nits, there will be to ABL limiting and displays are more stable overs the time at these nits levels.

2) OLED's are very unstable to their HDR mode, so this makes any size of cube profiling impossible.

Here I have posted Drift Plots using LightSpace of Panasonic EZ1000 (LG WRGB panel) with 3 different SDR peak levels and for HDR, to see how unstable the panels become once you are going higher from 110 nits.

Below you wiil see the drift plot of EZ1000 taking a cube profiling with normal patch sequence (without black frame insertion for stabilization, which can prevent increase of panel heat to the pattern area, more details about Stabilization has been posted here, seems that its improving OLED's stability during large cube profilings, as you can see checking some data coming from LG's C8 here)

3) Baked Tone/Gamut mapping can't be disabled... If you want to perform a 3D LUT for HDR10, the display need to have gamma based tracking (not PQ), to be able to provide you the max output possible (700-800 nits) with gamma 2.2-2.4, and don't have enabled any kind of tone/gamut mapping.

The generated 3D LUT table will have target PQ and REC.2020 ColorSpace and the kind of tone mapping you will want (hard clip, soft clip, when the roll-off with start etc...) all these details its something the software will calculate, LightSpace has all these tools at least 2-3 years for 3D LUT for HDR:



So the display will have a fixed output, it will not care about any HDR10 Static Metadata Info of each movie.

BTW the Panasonic EZ1000 supports 66-Point Cube 3D LUT for HDR10, and there is a trick to disable the tone mapping, but because the panel is so unstable, its useless....

Look what is happening to HDR mode using 2% patterns (trying to not trigger ABL and load) this is the LightSpace's drift plot of White patch measured every 30 seconds (axis are +-3 nits), when Klein K-10A used for measurements of 17-Point Cube for HDR Mode with Peak output 796 nits:


The best possible scenario, which has been tested, is to use 9 seconds of Black frame insertion before each measured patch, so it took 26H to complete the 21-Point Cube profiling, in a very cold room, with fan aiming the panel also to cool it down... (while it takes about 2H normally with K-10A without black frame inserction for 21-Point Cube measurements with Klein K-10A and LightSpace).

So with 9 seconds of black frame before each meter read, the Drift Plot improved as you can see:




...but is still unstable, and it was impossible to get a valid 3D LUT for HDR because the panel's unstable performance and the issue with W sub-pixel which is reducing a lot the gamut color volume.

This is a proof that 3D LUT with WRGB (with disabled tone mapping and with display which has 3D LUT for HDR capability) is not working.

Maciej Koper (mkoper - hdtvpolska.com), popular and very expert calibrator/TV reviewer from Poland, performed a lot of testing for dates to find out the best number for stabilization time and helped for these data.

For there reasons, there no problem that eeColor is for 3D LUT for SDR only, since it's impossible to calibrate 3D LUT for HDR10/DV, we will wait to see how RGB OLED's will perform about stability in the future (to prevent at least the 1st issue, with W sub-pixel).

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post #744 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 02:48 PM
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But why nobody from portrait display showing a reaction in this thread? And don't count Tyler he didn't answered even one question
That's not correct.

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post #745 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi guys,

3D LUT for HDR doesn't exist in the world of consumer WRGB OLED's. You can't perform any kind of 3D LUT for HDR for many reasons.

Basically 3D LUT for Dolby Vision I don't think its possible, even Lumagen PRO can't pass Dolby Vision signal (passthrou is not possible also), if a company will try to release 3D LUT Box for DV, Dolby is not providing so easy the required license, for example Accupel DVG-6000 is waiting for months for that approval.

Since the processing is performed inside to the TV (for Dolby Vision), the TV has to be equipped for that 3D LUT capability, I don't see possible to apply 3D LUT before signal will enter to the TV, using external 3D LUT Box (unless Dolby release their own boxes for that job).

LG 2018 OLED's are supporting 3D LUT for SDR mode only, not for HDR10 or DV. You can't perform HDR10/DV 3D LUT with any kind of external 3D LUT Box with these WRGB OLED's.

Why you can't perform 3D LUT for HDR10 with WRGB OLED's

1) As explained very detailed to this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post56201380 the WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, this distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WOLEDs can never be calibrated for HDR... ...but can be calibrated with 3D LUT in SDR mode, the recommendation is up 105-110 nits, there will be to ABL limiting and displays are more stable overs the time at these nits levels.

2) OLED's are very unstable to their HDR mode, so this makes any size of cube profiling impossible.

Here I have posted Drift Plots using LightSpace of Panasonic EZ1000 (LG WRGB panel) with 3 different SDR peak levels and for HDR, to see how unstable the panels become once you are going higher from 110 nits.

Below you wiil see the drift plot of EZ1000 taking a cube profiling with normal patch sequence (without black frame insertion for stabilization, which can prevent increase of panel heat to the pattern area, more details about Stabilization has been posted here, seems that its improving OLED's stability during large cube profilings, as you can see checking some data coming from LG's C8 here)

3) Baked Tone/Gamut mapping can't be disabled... If you want to perform a 3D LUT for HDR10, the display need to have gamma based tracking (not PQ), to be able to provide you the max output possible (700-800 nits) with gamma 2.2-2.4, and don't have enabled any kind of tone/gamut mapping.
1. Shouldn't it then be possible to remainaccurate to 400 nits? This limitation also extends to professional calibration.

2. My C7 is unstable for hand-tuning thecalibration. I display Live TV between sweeps. Perhaps, a snow pattern ratherthan gray or black pattern would produce better results during long calibrationsessions.

3. Perhaps, Calman can address this with LG. Thereought to be a way to disable tone-mapping temporarily (not surviving apower-cycle) during auto-cal.

I think many of the enthusiasts here want toautocal to get close to a professional calibration for SDR, DV, and HDR modes.


Calman seems to working toward that end.


- Rich
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post #746 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
1. Shouldn't it then be possible to remainaccurate to 400 nits? This limitation also extends to professional calibration.

2. My C7 is unstable for hand-tuning thecalibration. I display Live TV between sweeps. Perhaps, a snow pattern ratherthan gray or black pattern would produce better results during long calibrationsessions.

3. Perhaps, Calman can address this with LG. Thereought to be a way to disable tone-mapping temporarily (not surviving apower-cycle) during auto-cal.

I think many of the enthusiasts here want toautocal to get close to a professional calibration for SDR, DV, and HDR modes.

Calman seems to working toward that end.

- Rich
1) See Drift Plot Graphs I have posted, for up to 100-110 nits the panels are stable only.

2) When you perform 3D LUT, if you pause procedure (its possible with LightSpace, it has pause button...to display your own stuff like you say) ...you will have step-changes in the profile data. The LUT will therefore ‘correct’ those errors, even though they are invalid. The result will always be inaccurate...

3) Re-read my post, the example I posted with EZ1000 which has internal 3D LUT for HDR10 and disabled tone mapping, its not working. Why to ask from LG to disable the tone-mapping since its not capable to upload HDR10 3D LUT table?

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post #747 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
1) See Drift Plot Graphs I have posted, for up to 100-110 nits the panels are stable only.

2) When you perform 3D LUT, if you pause procedure (its possible with LightSpace, it has pause button...to display your own stuff like you say) ...you will have step-changes in the profile data. The LUT will therefore ‘correct’ those errors, even though they are invalid. The result will always be inaccurate...

3) Re-read my post, the example I posted with EZ1000 which has internal 3D LUT for HDR10 and disabled tone mapping, its not working. Why to ask from LG to disable the tone-mapping since its not capable to upload HDR10 3D LUT table?
1. I see that and am not disputing the finding. However, that is not a root cause analysis.
2. Perhaps, I am just not technical enough to follow this statement. There is drift even when manually calibrating. Whatever procedures are used by calibrators, moving patterns (ChadB used one at my house), or something else should be replicable with automation.
3. So Panasonic LUT calibration is not working, that does not mean LG's cannot work.


My sentiments mirror @jrref , Calman is working on it, so let's see what can be done to improve it.


- Rich
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post #748 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
3. So Panasonic LUT calibration is not working, that does not mean LG's cannot work.
I'm talking about 3D LUT for HDR10 with Panasonic that is not working. The display comes from the factory with 3D LUT upload for HDR and SDR. For 3D LUT for SDR is working great with LightSpace, from 2017.

LG don't have 3D LUT for HDR10, it has for SDR only.
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post #749 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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At a high level:
For DV on the LG, calibrating manually or with autocal, Calman sends specific messaging to the LG via your pattern generator such as the Murideo, for example, to put the set in Relative mode and you calibrate the native panel with gamma 2.2. There is no tone mapping in this phase of the calibration. Once done, a new config file is generated and loaded. The set is then put back into Absolute mode and "does whatever process" to generate the EOTF parameters for DV picture mode.

For HDR, with autocal, except for the config file, the set is calibrated in Native mode similar to how it's done with DV and then the set generates the EOTF parameters for HDR picture mode.
For HDR calibrating manually, the tone mapping is enabled which is why they are using the code values to calibrate. Basically on the LG all you really need to do is the 2 pt to set the white point and the HDR lines up pretty well.

Again this is a description given to me at a high level. Tyler will have to add any of the details of how and why this works.

To me this is similar to how the Sony works where you calibrate the SDR vs calibrating the LG in "native" mode, and the set interpolates the settings for HDR and DV.


As for the 3D LUTs for DV and HDR, Tyler will have to explain with autocal or maybe D-Nice can shed some light on this as well.
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post #750 of 3131 Old 05-23-2018, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
1. I see that and am not disputing the finding. However, that is not a root cause analysis.
2. Perhaps, I am just not technical enough to follow this statement. There is drift even when manually calibrating. Whatever procedures are used by calibrators, moving patterns (ChadB used one at my house), or something else should be replicable with automation.
3. So Panasonic LUT calibration is not working, that does not mean LG's cannot work.


My sentiments mirror @jrref , Calman is working on it, so let's see what can be done to improve it.


- Rich
There is and has been a lot of testing going on that you are not privy to the results. 3DLUT calibration of HDR10 outside of the 1DLUT and 3x3 Matrix is not possible. That isn’t going to change.
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