2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 74 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2191 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Here are my scans. I did the 20 pt gray scale and a matrix CMS for HDR on my 55C8 with the new Beta.


Impressive you got your set up to 803nit! I think mine caps around 720


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post #2192 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I was looking at your results and one thing that is important is you have to make sure your input patch format is correct meaning RGB 10 bit or you will get results similar to what you got. When something is wrong, usually you can see the CMS is "off". After that discussion on the TPGs I've been experimenting and as everyone has discovered, you need to make sure your patches are or close as possible to bit perfect.
Hmm. Well the Raspberry Pi is only outputting SDR RGB (8bit I presume). We're told it is bit perfect. The HDFury is setting the HDR infoframe further downstream from it.

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post #2193 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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It's interesting, Tyler explained that HDR peak luminance can be higher after autocal because it does the grayscale to your specific panel's native 2.2 gamma similar to what's done with DV calibration. I've noticed this benefit on a couple of panels I've calibrated at the store's showroom since we are not autocal'ing any customer sets.

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post #2194 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
It's interesting, Tyler explained that HDR peak luminance can be higher after autocal because it does the grayscale to your specific panel's native 2.2 gamma similar to what's done with DV calibration. I've noticed this benefit on a couple of panels I've calibrated at the store's showroom since we are not autocal'ing any customer sets.


Maybe I'll give hdr autocal another try. Probably a reason why mines caps at 720-730 because I'm just working the 2pt controls


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post #2195 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 11:08 AM
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@JOHN ,what resolution settinsg are you using on the murideo for sdr?

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post #2196 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
@JOHN ,what resolution settinsg are you using on the murideo for sdr?
SDR, RGB limited, 1080, 23.97, 8 bit
HDR, RGB limited, 3840x2160, 23.97, 10 bit
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post #2197 of 3727 Old 10-28-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Hmm. Well the Raspberry Pi is only outputting SDR RGB (8bit I presume). We're told it is bit perfect. The HDFury is setting the HDR infoframe further downstream from it.
Right. Well from my later reading, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Main_specifications) the HDMI 1.4b output that the Pi has does support 10bit 1080p24 output. However there's no way to engage 10bit mode using the DirectControl app which configures it.

Separately, HDMI 1.4b doesn't support rec2020 colourspace according to the wiki table.

I'm now thinking that I can only calibrate HDR with Narrow colour gamut?

I had (wrongly?) thought that having my bit-perfect SDR pattern generator, the HDFury Integral would sort me out. It would inject the metadata to switch the TV into HDR mode, but I must have missed all the pages of discussion about the colourspace . Has the HDFury been an expensive purchase for no reason?

If the Pi is outputting an RGB signal with full red, full green, full blue, black and white (which is all that the Matrix LUT uses), surely it only needs to send a bunch of 255's?

[edit to add:] After a power cycle I'm now seeing the white balance controls greyed out in the picture menu for HDR Cinema mode (which was the mode I was calibrating). But CMS controls aren't greyed out.

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post #2198 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiQiCE View Post
I've been playing with HDR10 Autocal using an HDFury Vertex and the RPI PGenerator

I'm curious what kind of results I should expect?
[...]
I'm not sure if there are any settings I need to change? With the HDFury Vertex, I am using a custom HDR IF with SMPTE ST 2084 for EOTF, DCI P3 for the Primaries, D65 White Point, 1000 Max Luminance, 0.005 Min Lum, MaxCLL 1000, MaxFALL 400. My Custom AVI Infoframe is: 82:02:0d:ae:00:e8:64:10:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00

The RPI Pgenerator is outputting 1080p60 RGB 8bit (148Mhz) per the HDFury Vertex, and the HDFury Vertex is outputting 1080p60 RGB BT2020 12bit (223Mhz)

I've also tried it simply as 1080p60 RGB 8bit as the output and had similar results.
Ah. @LiQiCE did you ever fix this?

I've been re-reading these older posts because I had the same results yesterday (posted).

After your post, Tyler replied in this post saying
Quote:
It looks the the TV isn’t going into BT.2020 mode correctly. It is most likely an AVI info frame issue.
Next other info frames were suggested, but you confirmed in this post that it was the same as the info frame you had already been using.

As far as I can make out, there was no progress on the info-frame idea as being the cause?

Then you moved onto using a FireTV, and then a pro signal generator - so I think I'm stuck with the same Rpi issue you had

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post #2199 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
In doing a 3D LUT I noticed that Calman is updating for about a minute leaving a yellow patch up on the screen. I wonder if that could be causing that anomaly in the yellow area of the LUT? When it's updating the tables it shouldn't leave a patch up or it will heat up the screen. Anyone notice this? If so, then maybe it's an oversight because the rest of the updates are not leaving a patch up.


I noticed it as well. I would like to see Calman put up a 25% field while it does its long calculations.


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post #2200 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
I reported and suggested that as well
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post #2201 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
I noticed it as well. I would like to see Calman put up a 25% field while it does its long calculations.
Also, in the LG HDR workflow when you finished the 1DLUT and move to the 3DLUT, it immediately blasts out a 100% then 109% pattern to the screen and takes readings while you have the Autocal dialogue up. If you then set a "delay before start", the 109% pattern is left up on the screen for the whole duration of the delay.

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post #2202 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Ah. @LiQiCE did you ever fix this?

I've been re-reading these older posts because I had the same results yesterday (posted).

After your post, Tyler replied in this post saying


Next other info frames were suggested, but you confirmed in this post that it was the same as the info frame you had already been using.

As far as I can make out, there was no progress on the info-frame idea as being the cause?

Then you moved onto using a FireTV, and then a pro signal generator - so I think I'm stuck with the same Rpi issue you had
Unfortunately I never fixed it with the RPI Generator. I got significantly better results using my 1st generation FireTV stick and MobileForge, but of course only calibrating 16-235 (although from reading recent posts, it seems as though 16-235 really is sufficient for watching most video sources). I verified the results from the FireTV Stick + MobileForge with R.Masciola's patterns on USB Stick played from my LG UBK90 4K Blu-Ray player and the results were very close. (although in some cases, there were some differences, don't remember exactly where the variances were though).

Since then I bought a VideoForge Pro although honestly, I think the FireTV Stick + MobileForge + HDFury results for HDR10 were actually pretty good.

BTW- There were some AVI InfoFrame issues that I had with the HDFury, I went to the HDFury Discord channel and they were able to help me with the correct InfoFrame. It needs to be a lot longer (there are headers before hand) than the ones that I've seen posted here.

Code:
HDR InfoFrame
87:01:17:5c:02:00:d0:84:80:3e:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:05:00:00
AVI InfoFrame
82:02:0d:ae:00:e8:64:10:00:00:00 <-- This is for 1080p60. Originally it was wrong and the HDFury support was able to help fix it.
I originally had (based on posts here) - 00:e8:64:10:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00 as my AVI InfoFrame. This is for 1080p60.
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post #2203 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 05:52 PM
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Thankyou! I'll certainly try that longer infoframe - I was using the shorter versions.

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post #2204 of 3727 Old 10-29-2018, 08:05 PM
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BTW- In case you're curious @mrtickleuk here are the results of my last HDR10 Autocal with the HDFury -

HDR10 ColorChecker verification with R.Masciola's patterns:



HDR10 ColorChecker (using HDFury, FireTV Stick and MobileForge):



Grayscale:



Saturation Sweeps:



For comparison, here are my VideoForge Pro HDR10 autocal calibration results. I won't directly post the images here, but will post links instead:

ColorChecker:
https://i.imgur.com/Fa3ekty.png

Grayscale:
https://i.imgur.com/3aBbDcq.png

Saturation sweeps:
https://i.imgur.com/m2bxlNB.png

Even with the VF Pro, it still is certainly not perfect, but I'm not sure if I can do much better with Autocal currently. Perhaps the new Beta of Calman will be better once it is stable?
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post #2205 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 05:18 AM
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So I ran a successful hdr10 calibration using autocal last night. Had really good results too for once. However, when I went to copy inputs they wouldn't copy over


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post #2206 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
I noticed it as well. I would like to see Calman put up a 25% field while it does its long calculations.


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I play content between sweeps for manual calibration but I think a snow pattern (like TV tuning no channel) would probably work well.


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post #2207 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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So I ran a successful hdr10 calibration using autocal last night. Had really good results too for once. However, when I went to copy inputs they wouldn't copy over


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So I thought once you disconnect from the TV that the calibration settings automatically copy to all inputs?

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post #2208 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I play content between sweeps for manual calibration but I think a snow pattern (like TV tuning no channel) would probably work well.


- Rich
The other thing you can do is if your TPG lets you store a pattern then you can throw up a 10% or 15% full screen gray patch. This works the best since it's consistent.
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post #2209 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So I thought once you disconnect from the TV that the calibration settings automatically copy to all inputs?


For sdr that seems like the case. But for hdr10 I calibrated hdr cinema on input 1. Tried to copy to all inputs and on input 2, cinema is completely out of whack. Horrible elevated black level and still have the option to change white balance


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That may be a bug that was missed. E-mail that to Spectracal support so they look into it and fix it.

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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
The other thing you can do is if your TPG lets you store a pattern then you can throw up a 10% or 15% full screen gray patch. This works the best since it's consistent.

Those work well if the LG has ASBL disabled. Moving patterns are required if it is not disabled. I am not sure that Calman disabled this for the 7 series.
Does it disable it for the 8 series?


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Those work well if the LG has ABSL disabled. Moving patterns are required if it is not disabled. I am not sure that Calman disabled this for the 7 series.
Does it disable it for the 8 series?


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Calman has a pattern insertion feature that you can set to throw up a full screen gray patch at any intensity and interval. If you don't disable ASBL with the service remote while calibrating, this will work. But if you want to get consistent readings, you really should disable ASBL in the service menu as well.
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
That may be a bug that was missed. E-mail that to Spectracal support so they look into it and fix it.


Curious if it's a calman bug or a lg bug


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Curious if it's a calman bug or a lg bug


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Either way, report it and they will figure it out.

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2018 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
For sdr that seems like the case. But for hdr10 I calibrated hdr cinema on input 1. Tried to copy to all inputs and on input 2, cinema is completely out of whack. Horrible elevated black level and still have the option to change white balance


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There is only 1 3D LUT and 1D LUT slot for the HDR Cinema mode globally. The copy to the other inputs Should only apply to all the other settings like motion interpolation brightness contrast etc.

Not sure what is going on in your situation, I would try hard power cycling the TV by unplugging it from the wall and forcing it to fully reboot.

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post #2216 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
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Curious if it's a calman bug or a lg bug


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I will have to double check, but I dont think I had this issue when autocal'ing HDR10 for my C8.

I also had issues with dimming even with pattern insertion turned on (using the default settings) - I noticed when the patterns were up if I pressed a key on the remote, it would brighten the screen. I had to disable ABSL via the service menu when calibrating, results were better with it disabled.
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post #2217 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I will have to double check, but I dont think I had this issue when autocal'ing HDR10 for my C8.

I also had issues with dimming even with pattern insertion turned on (using the default settings) - I noticed when the patterns were up if I pressed a key on the remote, it would brighten the screen. I had to disable ABSL via the service menu when calibrating, results were better with it disabled.
From experience, I know it's not a good idea to encourage going into the Service Menu but for you guys who are experienced, it's really the only way to eliminate the ABSL. You still need pattern insertion because that also helps with the panel heating up so use both.

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post #2218 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is only 1 3D LUT and 1D LUT slot for the HDR Cinema mode globally. The copy to the other inputs Should only apply to all the other settings like motion interpolation brightness contrast etc.

Not sure what is going on in your situation, I would try hard power cycling the TV by unplugging it from the wall and forcing it to fully reboot.

Tyler


I'll give that a whirl. Otherwise I will try directly calibrating from hdmi input 2


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post #2219 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There is only 1 3D LUT and 1D LUT slot for the HDR Cinema mode globally. The copy to the other inputs Should only apply to all the other settings like motion interpolation brightness contrast etc.

Not sure what is going on in your situation, I would try hard power cycling the TV by unplugging it from the wall and forcing it to fully reboot.

Tyler


Also for hdr10, are we suppose to use deictcp 240? No longer see just ictcp in drop down


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post #2220 of 3727 Old 10-30-2018, 01:10 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiQiCE View Post
BTW- In case you're curious @mrtickleuk here are the results of my last HDR10 Autocal with the HDFury -
[...]
Even with the VF Pro, it still is certainly not perfect, but I'm not sure if I can do much better with Autocal currently. Perhaps the new Beta of Calman will be better once it is stable?
Many thanks for those.

I've been scouring the Info frame details with a fine tooth-comb today. I believe I've found at least one problem with what I was doing. Also, kudos to the community for not spoon-feeding me the answer. I've got some satisfaction from the learning.

With the help of some HDMI spec PDFs that somehow are freely available on the net, and this excellent page: http://www.edidreader.com/infoframes/avi/, I think I've unpacked enough about the Infoframe to check every byte (as long as I don't have to create a checksum! Luckily the HDFury Integral's PC app tells you to paste in the values without the header or checksum).

From your earlier posts you used this infoframe represented textually (82:02:0d:ae:00:e8:64:10:00:00:00 on line 1)
Code:
Header  |Packet                          |
 0: 1: 2| 0 .   1  :   2 : 3   : 4 :  5  | 
  :  :  |CRC.RGB or: Col.:Ext. :VIC: YCC | 
  :  :  |   . YCbCr:     :Col./:   :Quan.| 
  :  :  |   .      :Ratio:Quan.:   :     | 
  :  :  |   .      :     :     :   :     | 
82:02:0d|ae .  00  :  E8 : 64  : 10:  00 | RGB / 16:9, Extended Colorimetry / BT.2020 RGB *Limited* / 1080p60 / YCbCr Limited
 ": ": "|   .  00  :  E8 : 64  : 20:  00 | RGB / 16:9, Extended Colorimetry / BT.2020 RGB *Limited* / 1080p24 / YCbCr Limited
Line 2 is the one I used - for 1080p24 instead of 1080p60.

The extra zeros on the end aren't used. In fact there are more bytes from Packet Byte 6-13 which will all be zero.

I set my Pi to output RGB FULL, so that I could calibrate SDR with full white and the 109% levels.

But those Info frames are for RGB Limited! And I definitely set the Pi to output RGB FULL.

So my choices are
(a) keep switching the Pi's config from Full to Limited and back, depending on whether I'm calibrating SDR or HDR.
(b) use an "RGB Full" infoframe, which I believe will be:

Code:
Header  |Packet                          |
 0: 1: 2| 0 .   1  :   2 : 3   : 4 :  5  | 
  :  :  |CRC.RGB or: Col.:Ext. :VIC: YCC | 
  :  :  |   . YCbCr:     :Col./:   :Quan.| 
  :  :  |   .      :Ratio:Quan.:   :     | 
  :  :  |   .      :     :     :   :     | 
 ": ": "|   .  00  :  E8 : 68  : 20:  40 | RGB / 16:9, Extended Colorimetry / BT.2020 RGB *FULL*    / 1080p24 / YCbCr Full
This gives an AVI Infoframe of
00:E8:68:20:40

To check, I can enter "82,02,0d,ff,00,E8,68,20,40" (give it a rubbish checksum just so that it can parse) into the excellent AVI Infoframe reader website, and it says

Quote:
Type: 0x82
Version: 0x2
Length: 0xD
Checksum: 0xFF
Scan Information: No Data
Bar Data: None
Active Format Present: FALSE
Color Space: RGB
Active Portion Aspect Ratio: Same as Coded Frame
Coded Frame Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Colorimetry: Extended
Non-Uniform Scaling Picture: No Known Non-Uniform Scaling
RGB Quantization: Full Range
Extended Colorimetry:
IT Content: FALSE
VIC: 32
Pixel Repetition: 1x
IT Content Type: Graphics
YCC Quantization Range: Full Range
End of Top Bar (ETB): 0
Start of Bottom Bar (SBB): 0
End of Left Bar (ELB): 0
Start of Right Bar (SRB): 0
Hope this helps others!
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Last edited by mrtickleuk; 10-30-2018 at 01:15 PM.
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