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post #1 of 45 Old 04-24-2018, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Videoforge HDMI + HDFury Integral + HDR10

Hi,

recently I bought a Videoforge HDMI which is utilized for Calman SDR calibration of an LG OLED TV (C8), including Autocal. For HDR calibration I bought a HDFury Integral. Thanks to the thread here I was able to calibrate Dolby Vision with some success, though I am sill learning.
Now I want to calibrate HDR10 on my LG. I followed the explanations Spectracal provided on their homepage, using the Integral API, not the AVTopController approach. I set everything up and in SDR mode I can see the pattern generated by the Videoforge, see picture.



But when I choose HDR from the HDFury Source menu in order to switch my TV into HDR/BT2020 mode, it does so, but the pattern is not seen anymore. Instead the screen remains black until I switch to SDR again.



I have photographs of the HDFury/Calman settings attached. Also, I played around with different settings with no success at all. Does anyone have hints for me?





Thanks, Robert
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post #2 of 45 Old 04-24-2018, 08:46 AM
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Try this: while HDFury is connected as a Source in CalMAN select HDR10 in the HDR field, then disconnect the HDFury and connect VideoForge. Obviously VideoForge should be connected to the upper input port of the HDFury and the TV to the upper output port. Let me know.

EDIT: I think the HDFury Integral should be on FIXED EDID and HDR/HLG selected.

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post #3 of 45 Old 04-24-2018, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

thanks for your input. I tried out what you suggested, unfortunatly with no success. Does anyone have more ideas?

Thanks

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post #4 of 45 Old 04-24-2018, 12:49 PM
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As soon as possible I'll try on my set.
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post #5 of 45 Old 04-24-2018, 11:16 PM
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The Integral GUI shows that you're allowing YCbCr. Do make sure you're sending RGB, not YCbCr. Only 1 pattern generator can currently do YCbCr for HDR (the math is completely different from SDR), and it isn't the VideoForge. Even the Integral won't change this.

Also, don't use the GUI AND CalMAN to control the Integral. Use one or the other, not both. I highly suggest you search the CalMAN site for guides on HDR calibration for more information - your settings are wrong somewhere.

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post #6 of 45 Old 04-25-2018, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. I tried with „Allow YCbCr“ disabled with no success, I am still getting a black screen, where the pattern should be. To make sure my Videoforge outputs RGB I switched it to RGB_8.
Actually, during my attemts, I do not use Calman and the GUI in parallel, this was just for showing my settings. I agree, my settings must be wrong, but I habe no idea which one(s).

Any suggestion? Thanks. Robert
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post #7 of 45 Old 04-26-2018, 09:46 PM
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Have you already followed these instructions?
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post #8 of 45 Old 04-26-2018, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
[...]I followed the explanations Spectracal provided on their homepage, [...]
Yes, I followed these instuctions.
Robert
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post #9 of 45 Old 04-27-2018, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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...okay, got the linker today and it worked out of the box. Don´t know, what´s the issue with my integral ...

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post #10 of 45 Old 04-29-2018, 09:17 AM
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Mmm strange thing... i don’t remember if you were running your tv at 1920x1080 while feeding it with 1080p patterns

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post #11 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 08:06 AM
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It is just that your CUSTOM AVI string is wrong ! if you read the manual, it's written, that users must be careful playing with CUSTOM AVI, since wrong values = black screen.
The default CUSTOM AVI value for latest firmware (and since a while) is: 60:c8:60:61:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00
Which is exactly provided as an example on the Windows GUI as you can see from your screenshot, now check the value you have there... so simply correct it to correct value and no more blackscreen.


PS: And use custom EDID 2, so you do not limit anything at source side. Custom EDID 2 = Full Video / Full Audio.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
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post #12 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
It is just that your CUSTOM AVI string is wrong ! if you read the manual, it's written, that users must be careful playing with CUSTOM AVI, since wrong values = black screen.
The default CUSTOM AVI value for latest firmware (and since a while) is: 60:c8:60:61:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00
Which is exactly provided as an example on the Windows GUI as you can see from your screenshot, now check the value you have there... so simply correct it to correct value and no more blackscreen.


PS: And use custom EDID 2, so you do not limit anything at source side. Custom EDID 2 = Full Video / Full Audio.
Thanks for the answer. The AVI string I use is the one Calman provides in order to prepare the TV for calibration of HDR10. So I do not just play but follow the instructions Calman provides. As far as I know, my pattern source must output RGB in order to enable Calman to to its job. I already tested the one you provide but it does not work with RGB as the colors are wrong (as expected):

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post #13 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
Thanks for the answer. The AVI string I use is the one Calman provides in order to prepare the TV for calibration of HDR10. So I do not just play but follow the instructions Calman provides. As far as I know, my pattern source must output RGB in order to enable Calman to to its job. I already tested the one you provide but it does not work with RGB as the colors are wrong (as expected):
I'm not sure I'm following and unfortunately i don't know much about calman requirements or tricks to "prepare the tv".
But I know that if you want BT2020 for HDR10 content, then AVI string must match.
I'm not sure how a display could enter HDR mode if you don't send BT2020 colorspace.


If you give me a link to this guide I can prolly find out.
Because on that link: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf
There is no where recommended to put integral custom AVI as RGB, actually, the screenshot on this guide show the default BT2020 value as I pointed previously.


Now may be you are trying to do something with Dolby Vision ? then it's a whole different story and have nothing to do with classic HDR.

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
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post #14 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 10:46 AM
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I have to say that I have exactly the same problem now with my LG C8 The AVI infoframes CalMAN provided for my LG E6 worked well and now I have a black screen.

These are the infoframes CalMAN created for my TPG which is running in RGB Mode


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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I'm not sure I'm following and unfortunately i don't know much about calman requirements or tricks to "prepare the tv".
But I know that if you want BT2020 for HDR10 content, then AVI string must match.
I'm not sure how a display could enter HDR mode if you don't send BT2020 colorspace.


If you give me a link to this guide I can prolly find out.
Because on that link: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf
There is no where recommended to put integral custom AVI as RGB, actually, the screenshot on this guide show the default BT2020 value as I pointed previously.


Now may be you are trying to do something with Dolby Vision ? then it's a whole different story and have nothing to do with classic HDR.
When I follow the guide you referred to here, in which Calman uses the HDFury API to directly control the Fury. I am getting the black screen too. So I followed the second approach Calman describes here: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf Within this workflow, Calman requires to copy the AVI IF I mentioned earlier into the Integral GUI. When I send it, the TV goes to BT.2020 but is black, too. So I think both approaches end the Fury and the TV beeing in the same state. I donˋt do anything regarding DV ATM, but I know how this works thanks to this forum here.

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post #16 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 11:04 AM
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Videoforge HDMI + HDFury Integral + HDR10

When I uncheck replace Avi I can see the pattern but I'm not sending BT2020 which is a big problem for me

I can get the TV into HDR BT2020 but then I get only black display.
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post #17 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
I have to say that I have exactly the same problem now with my LG C8 The AVI infoframes CalMAN provided for my LG E6 worked well and now I have a black screen.

These are the infoframes CalMAN created for my TPG which is running in RGB Mode

You are describing exactly the problem I have. Puh.

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Hey guys,

Are you using the latest firmware (10 April 2018) for Integral?

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Hey guys,

Are you using the latest firmware (10 April 2018) for Integral?
I can confirm that it does not work with the latest firmware and nor for the firmware level before. Also the latest C8-Firmware does not fix the problem.

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Videoforge HDMI + HDFury Integral + HDR10

So we just need the correct AVI Infoframes but I don't know how.

Yes I'm using the latest firmware.

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The same AVI Info Frame (00:E8:64:5D:00) puts my Samsung KS8000 into HDR mode just fine using my Integral. This should be a standard setting for HDR across the board. Perhaps something is jacked in the latest LG firmware?

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post #22 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 12:37 PM
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Who can fix this issue? HD Fury? LG or spectracal? So for me the Integral is useless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
Who can fix this issue? HD Fury? LG or spectracal? So for me the Integral is useless

The AVI info frame for bt.2020 needs to match the pixel color encoding.

RGB           00:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 444  40:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 422  20:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 420  60:E8:64:5D:00

These are the avi info frames we use for the integral, I know the Vertex uses a different format, which I discovered what they were, by capturing the info frame output of a VF Pro using the Vertex.

I am on a business trip right now, but will be back on Friday, so I can post the AVI info frames for the Vertex, which I am hoping will work with the Linker too.

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post #24 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
The AVI info frame for bt.2020 needs to match the pixel color encoding.

RGB           00:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 444  40:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 422  20:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 420  60:E8:64:5D:00

These are the avi info frames we use for the integral, I know the Vertex uses a different format, which I discovered what they were, by capturing the info frame output of a VF Pro using the Vertex.

I am on a business trip right now, but will be back on Friday, so I can post the AVI info frames for the Vertex, which I am hoping will work with the Linker too.

Tyler
Yeah, but these donˋt work on the LG C8 any more.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
The AVI info frame for bt.2020 needs to match the pixel color encoding.

RGB           00:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 444  40:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 422  20:E8:64:5D:00
ycbcr 420  60:E8:64:5D:00

These are the avi info frames we use for the integral, I know the Vertex uses a different format, which I discovered what they were, by capturing the info frame output of a VF Pro using the Vertex.

I am on a business trip right now, but will be back on Friday, so I can post the AVI info frames for the Vertex, which I am hoping will work with the Linker too.

Tyler

Let's hope that they will work thanks in advance.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeh81 View Post
...okay, got the linker today and it worked out of the box. Don´t know, what´s the issue with my integral ...
So with Linker and C8, there no problem with Integral for HDR10 with RGB AVI InfoFrame?

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Just asked devs some inputs (it also give some relief to my previous answer, not exactly correct, please correct with below info):

It is a bit confusing because just by changing Avi does not change display to any hdr mode ever.
The only thing is to send the hdr infoframe metadata.
Then in order to send 4k yet even more infoframes is needed - hdmi vendor specific If.
Furthermore it is not always necessary to be in bt2020 for hdr to work or not.
The image quality or characteristics won’t be the exact correct in 709 but it would still enable the hdr mode
Also looks like in the suggested avi the video format is 5d which should be 4k24 if memory serves.
If the source is sending 1080p then that would create an issue. Maybe try with 1080p Vic which is hex 10 (decimal 16, but you put 10 in avi)

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.

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post #28 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
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If the source is sending 1080p then that would create an issue. Maybe try with 1080p Vic which is 10
Hi, for 1080p60, the VIC code is 16.

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post #29 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, for 1080p60, the VIC code is 16.
Yes decimal 16 and hex 10 and you put 10 in AVI (I'm trying to make it easy for people to follow)
That’s for 60 hz and 24 hz would be hex 20 decimal 32

Use Automix/SINK mode for DV support on AVR-Key/Integral. Linker does NOT support all DV.
Want to get DD+ and ATMOS sound from TV streaming Apps back to an AVR via HDMI since it fails via ARC or S/PDIF?
Show interest by posting your TV and AVR brand/model. We might select you in the future for some beta test.

Last edited by HDfury; 05-01-2018 at 02:24 PM.
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post #30 of 45 Old 05-01-2018, 08:15 PM
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Okay I will give it a try and let you know if its worked thanks.

TV: LG OLED 65C8 Sources: Apple TV 4K, OPPO UDP-203 Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: C6-HDR, i1 Display Pro OEM Rev.B (2018), i1Pro2 OEM Rev.E Software: Lightspace HTL, Calman 2018 Enthusiast
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