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post #61 of 88 Old 07-19-2018, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Right so I turned "Rate Match" to yes instead of no & got this result:














Am I right in saying that these results are better?


I have no idea what rate match does but it seems better to me.
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post #62 of 88 Old 07-19-2018, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I went ahead & profiled the meter & had a go at calibrating the grayscale. Hopefully I am good on what the Lumagen is outputting as this work will be invalidated but here goes:























Only thing I am not happy with 100% red, everything else looks great to me.



No idea why its so far out, this will be my night mode so I tried my best to get as close to 100 nits but I at 105 nits so I hope this isn't to bright, I guess turning down the panel brightness down a notch will screw up my calibration?
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post #63 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Right so I turned "Rate Match" to yes instead of no & got this result:
Keep the 'Rate Match' enabled, so it will follow the same frame rate as the Lumagen see to its HDMI input (your player).
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post #64 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Well I went ahead & profiled the meter & had a go at calibrating the grayscale. Hopefully I am good on what the Lumagen is outputting as this work will be invalidated but here goes:

Only thing I am not happy with 100% red, everything else looks great to me.

No idea why its so far out, this will be my night mode so I tried my best to get as close to 100 nits but I at 105 nits so I hope this isn't to bright, I guess turning down the panel brightness down a notch will screw up my calibration?
Don't adjust peak output after the end of calibration, it will affect your results.

Perform the 9-Point Cube 3D LUT with Lumagen to improve your color gamut results.
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post #65 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Don't adjust peak output after the end of calibration, it will affect your results.

Perform the 9-Point Cube 3D LUT with Lumagen to improve your color gamut results.

Thanks for confirming everything is looking good.


I would love to use the 3D LUT in the Lumagen but being only HDMI 1.4 no HDR or P3/BT .2020 color space support
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post #66 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Keep the 'Rate Match' enabled, so it will follow the same frame rate as the Lumagen see to its HDMI input (your player).

I decided to re-profile my meter & am getting some difference in luminance between the two after the profile is applied, does this matter?


The chromaticity coordinates seem good but not luminance.



No matter what I do I cant get them to match, I have tried many exposure times, displaying the same warm up pattern before profiling & making sure the panel & meters are warmed up propperly.


I have tried about seven times & cant get the results I want.












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post #67 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 12:17 PM
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I would love to use the 3D LUT in the Lumagen but being only HDMI 1.4 no HDR or P3/BT .2020 color space support
3D LUT exist in SDR consumer world/content only, whatever display you have LED/OLED, even if you have Lumagen PRO, you can't perform 3D LUT for HDR10 with displays, I have explained this here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56234908

DCI-P3 don't exist as target colorspace in consumer world, we have REC.709 (SDR) and REC.2020 (HDR10/DV)
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post #68 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah would love a consumer 3D LUT that will support HDR10.


I will just use the built in controls on the TV for now.


Is my last profile any good? Should I ignore the luminance differences?
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post #69 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
I decided to re-profile my meter & am getting some difference in luminance between the two after the profile is applied, does this matter?

The chromaticity coordinates seem good but not luminance.

No matter what I do I cant get them to match, I have tried many exposure times, displaying the same warm up pattern before profiling & making sure the panel & meters are warmed up propperly.

I have tried about seven times & cant get the results I want.
Adam, your data show a very accurate meter profiling, NIST's accepted tolerances are below xy +-0.001 and +-1.5% Luminance when you will compare the 4 color (W,R,G,B) xyY chromaticity and luminance readings between the reference meter used (spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer) and profiled colorimeter (colorimeter with four color matrix correction loaded).

All your colors to your meter profile verification have tolerances below these numbers and you are profiling an WRGB panel which is more difficult to reach so tight results.

No need to spend more time, they are already very accurate result, you can start calibrating now
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post #70 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Adam, your data show a very accurate meter profiling, NIST's accepted tolerances are below xy +-0.001 and +-1.5% Luminance when you will compare the 4 color (W,R,G,B) xyY chromaticity and luminance readings between the reference meter used (spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer) and profiled colorimeter (colorimeter with four color matrix correction loaded).

All your colors to your meter profile verification have tolerances below these numbers and you are profiling an WRGB panel which is more difficult to reach so tight results.

No need to spend more time, they are already very accurate result, you can start calibrating now

Thanks for the speedy reply Ted & all your help & time. I will go ahead & start, wish me luck.
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post #71 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 12:40 PM
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Yeah would love a consumer 3D LUT that will support HDR10.
As explained very detailed to this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post56201380 the WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, this distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WOLEDs can never be calibrated for HDR... ...but can be calibrated with 3D LUT in SDR mode, the recommendation is up 105-110 nits, there will be to ABL limiting and displays are more stable overs the time at these nits levels.

Panasonic EZ1000 support already internal HDR10 3D LUT from 2017 but its not possible get valid results. The SDR internal 3D LUT via LightSpace is super fine.
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post #72 of 88 Old 07-20-2018, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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As explained very detailed to this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post56201380 the WRGB OLEDs due to the introduction of the 'white' sub-pixel, this distorts the standard RGB color channel relationship - excessively at HDR brightness levels. (if you sum the Y of 100% patch of R+G+B primaries you get 400nits while the same time if you display a 100% White patch you get 800nit...so your color gamut is limited to 400 nits... this means that WOLEDs can never be calibrated for HDR... ...but can be calibrated with 3D LUT in SDR mode, the recommendation is up 105-110 nits, there will be to ABL limiting and displays are more stable overs the time at these nits levels.

Panasonic EZ1000 support already internal HDR10 3D LUT from 2017 but its not possible get valid results. The SDR internal 3D LUT via LightSpace is super fine.

Very interesting info Ted, I did not know that about WOLED's & HDR. I would love to use the Lumagen but I also have a projector & inserting it into the chain will be an big job as I would have to have some sort of splitter or two source devices so I can separate 1080p from 4K.


I could use my HD Fury Integral to do this I suppose but then having to select specific picture modes at every source device change is very laborious & for the gain in accuracy it may not be worth it for me.


As you can tell I do not know a lot about calibration so would probably not be able to tell the difference in picture quality unlike yourself which it would probably look like a night & day difference.



Here is my night mode calibration & I dont think its too bad considering I have no CMS controls & the grayscale is dis-positioned from point 6 to 10 with the inbuilt controls.














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post #73 of 88 Old 07-21-2018, 01:48 AM
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Very interesting info Ted, I did not know that about WOLED's & HDR. I would love to use the Lumagen but I also have a projector & inserting it into the chain will be an big job as I would have to have some sort of splitter or two source devices so I can separate 1080p from 4K.

I could use my HD Fury Integral to do this I suppose but then having to select specific picture modes at every source device change is very laborious & for the gain in accuracy it may not be worth it for me.

As you can tell I do not know a lot about calibration so would probably not be able to tell the difference in picture quality unlike yourself which it would probably look like a night & day difference.

Here is my night mode calibration & I don't think its too bad considering I have no CMS controls & the grayscale is dis-positioned from point 6 to 10 with the inbuilt controls.
About your manual cal, its typical end results of manual calibration, only check 21-Point grayscale and a grayscale ramp also to see if all gradations are fine.

About the HD Fury Intergral, you can use it as splitter, so to send 2 HDMI tables to your TV, one to go directly to TV (for HDR10/DV) and the other throu Lumagen for SDR. There no need to change any preset since you will have only to change the HDMI Input of the TV only.

See at the end of that post for more details: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54676260
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post #74 of 88 Old 06-18-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Very interesting info Ted, I did not know that about WOLED's & HDR. I would love to use the Lumagen but I also have a projector & inserting it into the chain will be an big job as I would have to have some sort of splitter or two source devices so I can separate 1080p from 4K.

I could use my HD Fury Integral to do this I suppose but then having to select specific picture modes at every source device change is very laborious & for the gain in accuracy it may not be worth it for me.

As you can tell I do not know a lot about calibration so would probably not be able to tell the difference in picture quality unlike yourself which it would probably look like a night & day difference.

Here is my night mode calibration & I don't think its too bad considering I have no CMS controls & the grayscale is dis-positioned from point 6 to 10 with the inbuilt controls.
About your manual cal, its typical end results of manual calibration, only check 21-Point grayscale and a grayscale ramp also to see if all gradations are fine.

About the HD Fury Intergral, you can use it as splitter, so to send 2 HDMI tables to your TV, one to go directly to TV (for HDR10/DV) and the other throu Lumagen for SDR. There no need to change any preset since you will have only to change the HDMI Input of the TV only.

See at the end of that post for more details: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54676260
Hi ted, i am trying to profile my i1display pro with my reference spectro i1pro2 rev b to calibrate my new lg c9
I did 3 different profile and obtain different result.
Are those result correct?
Would my calibration will be accurate using one of those profile?
I warm up tv, spectro, colorimeter for 1 hours.
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post #75 of 88 Old 06-18-2019, 09:40 AM
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Hi ted, i am trying to profile my i1display pro with my reference spectro i1pro2 rev b to calibrate my new lg c9
I did 3 different profile and obtain different result.
Are those result correct?
Would my calibration will be accurate using one of those profile?
I warm up tv, spectro, colorimeter for 1 hours.


You are only showing the results for blue, You have to click on the other colors to show their values.

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post #76 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi ted, i am trying to profile my i1display pro with my reference spectro i1pro2 rev b to calibrate my new lg c9
I did 3 different profile and obtain different result.
Are those result correct?
Would my calibration will be accurate using one of those profile?
I warm up tv, spectro, colorimeter for 1 hours.
Hi, when you will run the meter profiling procedure, you need to have your CMS settings to default values (no internal CMS processing adjustments has to be active) and your TV colorspace to native gamut (wide gamut called to your LG).

Be sure also that all color enhancements and power saving features are disable, then check your contrast and color clipping to be sure that there no clipping to your white/colors.

Adjust your OLED light using the i1PRO2 to have about 100 nits @ your 100% White and then measure with i1PRO2 to keep these 4 readings (WRGB) as reference, then start the meter profiling and at the end compare the readings per color to see what kind of deviation you have.

You can read the 5 initial pre-calibration steps to provide the most accurate meter profile creation and calibration measurements here.

NIST's accepted tolerances are below xy +-0.001 and +-1.5% Luminance when you will compare the 4 color (W,R,G,B) xyY chromaticity and luminance readings between the reference meter used (spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer) and profiled colorimeter (colorimeter with four color matrix correction loaded).

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post #77 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi ted, i am trying to profile my i1display pro with my reference spectro i1pro2 rev b to calibrate my new lg c9
I did 3 different profile and obtain different result.
Are those result correct?
Would my calibration will be accurate using one of those profile?
I warm up tv, spectro, colorimeter for 1 hours.
Hi, when you will run the meter profiling procedure, you need to have your CMS settings to default values (no internal CMS processing adjustments has to be active) and your TV colorspace to native gamut (wide gamut called to your LG).

Be sure also that all color enhancements and power saving features are disable, then check your contrast and color clipping to be sure that there no clipping to your white/colors.

Adjust your OLED light using the i1PRO2 to have about 100 nits @ your 100% White and then measure with i1PRO2 to keep these 4 readings (WRGB) as reference, then start the meter profiling and at the end compare the readings per color to see what kind of deviation you have.

You can read the 5 initial pre-calibration steps to provide the most accurate meter profile creation and calibration measurements here.

NIST's accepted tolerances are below xy +-0.001 and +-1.5% Luminance when you will compare the 4 color (W,R,G,B) xyY chromaticity and luminance readings between the reference meter used (spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer) and profiled colorimeter (colorimeter with four color matrix correction loaded).
Hi Ted, thank for your explanation, hiw does this look to you.
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post #78 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 05:37 PM
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Hi Ted, thank for your explanation, hiw does this look to you.
Something is looking very impossible for OLED and your measurements, its unreal too good your 8 xyY numbers and I'm 100% sure that for all these measurements only your i1Display PRO measured all these 8 patches.

Your numbers are so good, its impossible to be i1PRO2 and profiled i1Display PRO these numbers.

Take a look again what is happening.

The workflow also don't display correctly the bars/charts, its displaying data for one meter, I mean you are not looking bars/ dots @ CIE chart for both meters, look to my workflow for meter profiling how data are displayed: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post48645705

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post #79 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Ted, thank for your explanation, hiw does this look to you.
Something is looking very impossible for OLED and your measurements, its unreal too good your 8 xyY numbers and I'm 100% sure that for all these measurements only your i1Display PRO measured all these 8 patches.

Your numbers are so good, its impossible to be i1PRO2 and profiled i1Display PRO these numbers.

Take a look again what is happening.

The workflow also don't display correctly the bars/charts, its displaying data for one meter, I mean you are not looking bars/ dots @ CIE chart for both meters, look to my workflow for meter profiling how data are displayed: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post48645705
Hi Ted, i an using calman home for Lg, i follow the worflow as described and i am sure i havent made any mistake.
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post #80 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Ted, thank for your explanation, hiw does this look to you.
Something is looking very impossible for OLED and your measurements, its unreal too good your 8 xyY numbers and I'm 100% sure that for all these measurements only your i1Display PRO measured all these 8 patches.

Your numbers are so good, its impossible to be i1PRO2 and profiled i1Display PRO these numbers.

Take a look again what is happening.

The workflow also don't display correctly the bars/charts, its displaying data for one meter, I mean you are not looking bars/ dots @ CIE chart for both meters, look to my workflow for meter profiling how data are displayed: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post48645705
Hi Ted, i an using calman home for Lg, i follow the worflow as described and i am sure i havent made any mistake.
Any Suggestion?
I took another reading 10 minute ago have a look if you can.
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post #81 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 06:01 PM
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Any Suggestion?
I took another reading 10 minute ago have a look if you can.
Yes its unreal.

Close workflow, open it, measure with i1PRO2, take screenshot, then close workflow, re-open it, measure with i1Display PRO profiled, then post the pictures.

You will see the problem with that method.

To your new screenshots, bars/CIE chart is showing one meter, not both.

This brings some questions if the workflow is not problematic by design.

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post #82 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Any Suggestion?
I took another reading 10 minute ago have a look if you can.
Yes its unreal.

Close workflow, open it, measure with i1PRO2, take screenshot, then close workflow, re-open it, measure with i1Display PRO profiled, then post the pictures.

You will see the problem with that method.

To your new screenshots, bars/CIE chart is showing one meter, not both.

This brings some questions if the workflow is not problematic by design.
Thanks Tedd, i will take some pics.
May be Tyler can explain the issue as i follow the workflow as describe.
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post #83 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Any Suggestion?
I took another reading 10 minute ago have a look if you can.
Yes its unreal.

Close workflow, open it, measure with i1PRO2, take screenshot, then close workflow, re-open it, measure with i1Display PRO profiled, then post the pictures.

You will see the problem with that method.

To your new screenshots, bars/CIE chart is showing one meter, not both.

This brings some questions if the workflow is not problematic by design.
Thanks Tedd, i will take some pics.
May be Tyler can explain the issue as i follow the workflow as describe.
Hi Ted, here you go, the result seems very similar?
What do you think?
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post #84 of 88 Old 06-19-2019, 10:45 PM
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Hi Ted, here you go, the result seems very similar?
What do you think?
Now comparison deviation look normal for WRGB LG OLED.

But you have to re-profile using the wide gamut with all other recommendations: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58200544

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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post #85 of 88 Old 06-20-2019, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Ted, here you go, the result seems very similar?
What do you think?
Now comparison deviation look normal for WRGB LG OLED.

But you have to re-profile using the wide gamut with all other recommendations: http://https://www.avsforum.com/foru...#115;t58200544
I use the calibrated dark mode and reset the cms before that.
When calibrated the color gamut is lock on wide.
Would that be the correct procedure Ted?
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post #86 of 88 Old 06-20-2019, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Ted, here you go, the result seems very similar?
What do you think?
Now comparison deviation look normal for WRGB LG OLED.

But you have to re-profile using the wide gamut with all other recommendations: http://https://www.avsforum.com/foru...#115;t58200544
Also when i calibrated the dark mode using autocal i find a large error in 100% blue more than 10 is that normal ted as you seen in the picture when i took reading with the i1pro 2 i also find large error in blue.
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post #87 of 88 Old 06-20-2019, 07:11 PM
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Hi ted, i am trying to profile my i1display pro with my reference spectro i1pro2 rev b to calibrate my new lg c9
I did 3 different profile and obtain different result.
Are those result correct?
Would my calibration will be accurate using one of those profile?
I warm up tv, spectro, colorimeter for 1 hours.


You are only showing the results for blue, You have to click on the other colors to show their values.
Do you guys know why i got this large error on 100% blue?
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post #88 of 88 Old 06-25-2019, 04:29 AM
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Hey Ted,

as per our offline convo's, I profiled my meter using Custom CS on my Samsung QLED. But this thread (and others) say use Native so a bit confused.

My profiled meter using Custom CS is very good but wondering if i should re-profile using Native?
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