Recommendations for Consumer Level Calibration Tool for around $300 or Less?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 9 Old 08-20-2018, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Recommendations for Consumer Level Calibration Tool for around $300 or Less??

Can you recommend a sub $300 calibration tool for a DLP front projector (W1070)?



I had a Spyder and I think an i1 years ago and both seemed to be useless after a month or so due to drift ... Hoping the industry has improved a little bit since then .


Any current calibration tools you'd recommend?
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post #2 of 9 Old 08-20-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tangled Cable View Post
Can you recommend a sub $300 calibration tool for a DLP front projector (W1070)?

I had a Spyder and I think an i1 years ago and both seemed to be useless after a month or so due to drift ... Hoping the industry has improved a little bit since then .

Any current calibration tools you'd recommend?
Hi, It's better idea to think about replacing your old meters (Spyder/i1display2 propably) with X-Rite i1Display PRO colorimeter, which is much faster, better low light measurement and sealed filter design, so this prevent drifting over the time, while Spyder has exposed filters where the degradation is faster. There a lot of info to read about i1Display PRO here.

You can see a comparison between Spyder meters vs. i1Display PRO here.

About calibration software there free solutions, you can download:

1) HCFR from here with support forum topic: HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

2) The Free DPS version of LightSpace CMS can be used also with an i1Display PRO meter, there available to read various guides on the Light Illusion website.

The specific guide for use with LightSpace DPS is here.

But there is a lot of potentially useful/interesting info in the various guides on the website also.

Support forum topic: Free LightSpace DPS - Manual Display Calibration

There is a HCFR tutorial from a forum member here: The certainly not complete user guide to get to know and calibrate your TV

After selecting your calibration software, you have to find a calibration disk which had been created specifically for each software because there differences between calibration disk that can affect the final result when you will use not proper patterns for each measurement run.

You will playback the calibration disk from the source you use to playback your movies, to include to the adjustments you will make any player internal processing/colorspace conversions inaccuracies, to have your full video chain calibrated.

For improve your calibration knowledge, here are some useful links generally for calibration:

http://www.tlvexp.ca/

Video Calibration From The Inside - Volume I - 2nd Edition-1

http://chromapure.com/demos.asp

http://chromapure.com/ChromaPureManual.pdf

http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...n%20How-To.pdf

http://calman.spectracal.com/user-guides.html

http://calman.spectracal.com/webinars.html

https://www.youtube.com/user/SpectraCal

http://lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html

http://lightillusion.com/delta-e.html

http://lightillusion.com/manual_cali...ots_guide.html

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #3 of 9 Old 09-19-2018, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, It's better idea to think about replacing your old meters (Spyder/i1display2 propably) with X-Rite i1Display PRO colorimeter, which is much faster, better low light measurement and sealed filter design, so this prevent drifting over the time, while Spyder has exposed filters where the degradation is faster. There a lot of info to read about i1Display PRO here.

You can see a comparison between Spyder meters vs. i1Display PRO here.

About calibration software there free solutions, you can download:

1) HCFR from here with support forum topic: HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

2) The Free DPS version of LightSpace CMS can be used also with an i1Display PRO meter, there available to read various guides on the Light Illusion website.

The specific guide for use with LightSpace DPS is here.

But there is a lot of potentially useful/interesting info in the various guides on the website also.

Support forum topic: Free LightSpace DPS - Manual Display Calibration

There is a HCFR tutorial from a forum member here: The certainly not complete user guide to get to know and calibrate your TV

After selecting your calibration software, you have to find a calibration disk which had been created specifically for each software because there differences between calibration disk that can affect the final result when you will use not proper patterns for each measurement run.

You will playback the calibration disk from the source you use to playback your movies, to include to the adjustments you will make any player internal processing/colorspace conversions inaccuracies, to have your full video chain calibrated.

For improve your calibration knowledge, here are some useful links generally for calibration:

http://www.tlvexp.ca/

Video Calibration From The Inside - Volume I - 2nd Edition-1

http://chromapure.com/demos.asp

http://chromapure.com/ChromaPureManual.pdf

http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...n%20How-To.pdf

http://calman.spectracal.com/user-guides.html

http://calman.spectracal.com/webinars.html

https://www.youtube.com/user/SpectraCal

http://lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html

http://lightillusion.com/delta-e.html

http://lightillusion.com/manual_cali...ots_guide.html
Sorry I'm so late in responding, but I want to say a belated thanks for this great, very thoughtful and supremely informative post! Tons of good info and links to boot. I really appreciate it!
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post #4 of 9 Old 09-22-2018, 03:19 PM
 
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@ConnecTEDDD I'm also looking for an affordable meter for some of my own prototypes, do you know if the i1Display Pro will work for narrow bandwidth RGB laser projectors? Or anything that will?

I find sites that don't mention their list prices kind of suspicious, when it makes you contact them first. So I'm skeptical the price is going to be cheaper than the more well-known brands and an actual response to the OP's under 300$ price query, but it's still worth my time to jump through these hoops if it saves me a few hundred on software afterward.
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post #5 of 9 Old 09-23-2018, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
@ConnecTEDDD I'm also looking for an affordable meter for some of my own prototypes, do you know if the i1Display Pro will work for narrow bandwidth RGB laser projectors? Or anything that will?

I find sites that don't mention their list prices kind of suspicious, when it makes you contact them first. So I'm skeptical the price is going to be cheaper than the more well-known brands and an actual response to the OP's under 300$ price query, but it's still worth my time to jump through these hoops if it saves me a few hundred on software afterward.
Hi,

i1Display PRO is an amazing meter for it's money (for the price range you are searching, below $300), but as any colorimeter, it's performance good when it will measure a display/projector SPD which will be close to the tables is coming from the factory.

A tristimulus colorimeter uses filters to separate light out into color components, and then fits those to matching curves based on the human eye, to produce color values in one or another three-value color space (XYZ, xyY, etc.) based on what the human eye would see.

The goal of any tristimulus colorimeter is to measure a display with responses matching the three CIE color-matching functions. In order to do this the colorimeter typically employs some form of filter/detector combination.

Filtering detector response to match the CIE color-matching functions is difficult. In fact, most commercial tristimulus colorimeters, have significant detector/filter errors.

Measurement results can be reasonably accurate when the colors are broadband because colorimeters are typically calibrated against NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) traceable and spectrally broadband CIE Illuminant A source of light having a correlated color temperature (CCT) of 2856 K to represent typical, domestic, tungsten-filament lighting. Some colorimeters are being calibrated against a reference state-of-the-art grade one LCD monitor.

Because the three primary colors (red, green, blue) that comprise the color gamut of LCD, LED or OLED displays are usually other than broadband; deviations from the desired color-matching-function responsivities can occur that will result in significant errors in color and luminance measurements whenever the spectra of the colors are no longer broadband; when measuring the primary colors of a display, or any mix of them.

Due to imperfect spectral matching of the three channels to the color matching functions (CMF) measurement errors occur, which rise with increasing spectral difference between calibration source and test source.

For that reason, i1Display PRO is coming with additional (from default Generic CMF) spectral corrections for each display technology (CCFL, Wide Gamut CCFL, White LED, RGB LED, OLED, Plasma, RG Phosphor, Projection) because different display technology can have very different spectral power distributions; these additional tables helps to reduce the chromaticity/luminance errors.

i1Display PRO colorimeter initially designed mainly as the ideal tool for web-designer/photographer and post-production market; while it became very popular to the consumer TV/Projector market also; so the models of the displays used from X-Rite to measure and create each display technology spectral characterization correction (at 1 nm internals using a Konica-Minolta CS-1000 spectroradiometer) was selected from a list of popular displays from these markets.

For example, X-Rite used a Sony PVM-2541 RGB OLED Monitor to create the OLED spectral correction for i1Display PRO which can be useful when you will measure the Sony or FSI (Flanders Scientific Inc.) RGB OLED Broadcasting Monitors and not a consumer LG WRGB OLED or the following brands which are using LG's WRGB OLED panel also: Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Loewe, Philips, Skyworth, Metz, Grundig, Vestel, Arçelik and Bang & Olufsen.

For RG Phosphor they used the Dell Ultrasharp U2413 and AU Optronics B156HW01 Monitors, not a popular Vizio RG Phosphor consumer display.

For LCD-CCFL IPS (EIZO/HP LP2465), for Wide Gamut LCD-CCFL (NEC 241/271/PA271W), for Projection (Marantz/HP/Panasonic), for CCFL-LED IPS (Eizo/HP), for RGB-LED (HP/SOYO) and for White-LED IPS (LG/Samsung SyncMaster/AU Optronics B156HW01).

The only exception was for Plasma where they used a consumer Panasonic Plasma TV.

The best choice to achieve the most color accurate results by measuring any display/projector technology will require to have both a spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer and a colorimeter.

Meter profiling is a process for improving the accuracy of a filter-based colorimeter, for a specific display/projector. Profiling creates a calibration profile for the colorimeter, for the display currently being measured, based on display measurement data from a reference spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer.

When you profile a colorimeter, you measure the unique spectral characteristics of a display with a spectrophotometer/spectroradiometer and basically you transfer that accuracy to your colorimeter, for that display/projector.

The process is known as the Four-Color Matrix Method (FCMM) for Correction of Tristimulus Colorimeter developed by Ohno and Hardis at NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology).

When you have a such ultra narrow SPD of Blue Laser projector (or RGB laser), profiling your colorimeter (any brand/model) using an i1PRO1/2, you will see an improvement, but errors can be reduced more when you use a 5nm Spectroradiometer.

For example see below some SPD graphs coming from different blue laser projectors (see peak shape but weighting also):

JVC DLA-Z1



Epson EH-LS10000



Optoma UHZ65



The spike of blue of laser is ultra narrow to be characterized properly by the coarser read bandwidth of the i1PRO2 because it does not have enough spectral resolutions (i1PRO2 has 128 sensors binned into 41 10nm increments).

A higher resolution (2 - 2.5nm) spectroradiometer can increase more the accuracy but it's required when you will measure an RGB laser source, with Blue laser with 5nm is enough.

But with 5nm spectro with RGB laser source you will see significant difference over 10nm (i1PRO).

For that reason the best idea is to get a colorimeter for you (i1Display PRO) and then see if you can rent a high-end spectro or hire a pro (for meter profiling only service) with a 5nm spectro, like JETI/PhotoResearch/Colorimetry Research/Minolta...a 5mn spectro or lower which is required for such narrow band light sources, you will able to do create a more accurate meter profiling for your i1Display PRO.

For more details about i1Display PRO or i1PRO2 and generally how stuff works, about meter profiling, certification of meters or other details, you can see them all collected there: http://www.displaycalibrations.com/x...ions_info.html

JETI has available in interesting PDF to take a look, talking for measurements of RGB laser projectors: JETI - Selected problems of display and projection color measurement.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #6 of 9 Old 09-23-2018, 08:43 AM
 
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Thanks for the detailed response.

Since laser wavelengths are typically known a priori, can't I just plug those wavelengths +/- 5nm into the calibration profile of the i1Display PRO? And, when I do my display calibration, then just make sure I'm only sampling those light courses, nothing else (like random stray light or reflected light which is broad spectrum).

I suppose I need the FWHM values for each laser but I'm sure I can get those. I don't need to solve for arbitrary / unknown lasers, just known values.

I'll do some more reading of all the links mentioned in this thread, thanks!

The price seems fine, it's just I can't justify ordering this until I know 100% for sure I can use it for my application, and if I have to make my own laser profiles to do so, how much will that cost me. It would really be ideal if you had some way to just plug in the laser parameters by hand and generate a spectral profile that way. I know that seems unscientific but I'm sure those values can be given by the laser diode manufacturer or, at worse, use an approximation for the FWHM since the central wavelength is definitely known.
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post #7 of 9 Old 09-23-2018, 09:04 AM
 
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I'm fairly sure I can get access to a high end spectro-radiometer at the lab at my nearest university, if that helps.

But I don't necessarily need the most precision right off, just something that basically handles RGB lasers tuned to rec 709, DCI P3, and Rec 2020 wavelengths, ideally.

If you can get default profiles for those three scenarios added to your meter, that'd be great.
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post #8 of 9 Old 09-23-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
Thanks for the detailed response.

Since laser wavelengths are typically known a priori, can't I just plug those wavelengths +/- 5nm into the calibration profile of the i1Display PRO? And, when I do my display calibration, then just make sure I'm only sampling those light courses, nothing else (like random stray light or reflected light which is broad spectrum).

I suppose I need the FWHM values for each laser but I'm sure I can get those. I don't need to solve for arbitrary / unknown lasers, just known values.

I'll do some more reading of all the links mentioned in this thread, thanks!

The price seems fine, it's just I can't justify ordering this until I know 100% for sure I can use it for my application, and if I have to make my own laser profiles to do so, how much will that cost me. It would really be ideal if you had some way to just plug in the laser parameters by hand and generate a spectral profile that way. I know that seems unscientific but I'm sure those values can be given by the laser diode manufacturer or, at worse, use an approximation for the FWHM since the central wavelength is definitely known.
Hi, using a colorimeter (X-Rite i1Display PRO), and a reference spectroradiometer (like JETI/Colorimetry Research/Minolta/PhotoResearch....ideally.... all these brands have 5nm or lower optical resolution) or a spectrophotometer (X-Rite i1PRO2, 10nm), you can create four color matrix table for each if your RGB laser source which will be saved to the software you are going to use (LightSpace/CalMAN/HCFR/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS/ChromaPure)

These tables using the 4-color matrix method specified by NIST, see more details here: https://displaycalibrations.com/x-ri...ions_info.html

ArgyllCMS additionally has the capability to create spectral correction for the i1Display PRO, using that utility: https://www.argyllcms.com/doc/ccxxmake.html

(It will work with i1PRO2 or JETI), then you can use HCFR or DisplayCAL or ArgyllCMS with these spectral corrections with the i1Display PRO.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #9 of 9 Old 09-23-2018, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The spike of blue of laser is ultra narrow to be characterized properly by the coarser read bandwidth of the i1PRO2 because it does not have enough spectral resolutions (i1PRO2 has 128 sensors binned into 41 10nm increments).
Whether a spectrometer will be less accurate with narrow light sources, depends on both its spectral resolution and where the sharp transitions in the light source occur. If those sharp transitions occur where the observer curves are relatively flat (i.e. near the peak L,M,S cone sensitivities), then the spectrometer resolution is less critical. If those transitions occur where the observer curves have a high slope, then a higher resolution spectrometer will have an accuracy advantage. [ Wide gamut will tend to put narrow primaries at points of high slope on observer curves though. This is why wide gamut will also have more observer variability, because this is also where observer to observer differences are most evident. ]

There is also a kind of "sample aliasing" effect. Say you have a light source with a narrow blue primary, but it happens to land at a symmetric point in the spectrometer sampling (i.e. right in the middle of a bin, or right at the boundary of two bins), then accuracy should still be good, because the energy vs. wavelength of the source is still accurately represented.

So in summary:
  • Narrow source with high resolution spectrometer = high confidence of accurate color values.
  • Narrow source with medium resolution spectrometer = less confidence of accurate color values, but not all color values will have noticeable errors.
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