2018 Vizio PQ65-F1 Calibration Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 452 Old 03-24-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
You can get Calman to put the vizo PQ into DV? Odd as I can get my 2017 Vizio P into DV, but no settings will get my PQ into DV from my laptop...
Yeah, I can. The same exact way I did before as well. Now I don't know if you know but you won't always see a checkmark next to the DV Selection on the DV page. Mine never does bit when I engage it my screen goes blank and then comes back to DV.

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post #362 of 452 Old 03-24-2019, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
Yeah, I can. The same exact way I did before as well. Now I don't know if you know but you won't always see a checkmark next to the DV Selection on the DV page. Mine never does bit when I engage it my screen goes blank and then comes back to DV.

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Yah I'm aware of the sequence, but my PQ won't. My 2017 P will with no settings changes. May be another issue with my unit.
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post #363 of 452 Old 03-25-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
You can get Calman to put the vizo PQ into DV? Odd as I can get my 2017 Vizio P into DV, but no settings will get my PQ into DV from my laptop...
Is Calman supposed to be able to trigger DV mode directly from the laptop/PC, or is a HDFury or other type of device needed?
I'm looking for what I'll need to do to calibrate my set - P75-F1 in my case.

Thanks,
Carl

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post #364 of 452 Old 03-25-2019, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CFC View Post
Is Calman supposed to be able to trigger DV mode directly from the laptop/PC, or is a HDFury or other type of device needed?

I'm looking for what I'll need to do to calibrate my set - P75-F1 in my case.



Thanks,

Carl
Calman is supposed to be able to trigger DV as Calman is the only licensed calibration software authorized to do so. Dolby and Calman work together to create the standard. Only an HDMI(1.4 or newer) connection is required. HDFury is not necessary.
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post #365 of 452 Old 03-25-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Calman is supposed to be able to trigger DV as Calman is the only licensed calibration software authorized to do so. Dolby and Calman work together to create the standard. Only an HDMI(1.4 or newer) connection is required. HDFury is not necessary.
Thanks!
I wasn't aware of that. I assumed it would require some for of external pattern generator. I couldn't find much info on the Calman site.
Do you know what the minimum requirement on the video card is?

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post #366 of 452 Old 03-27-2019, 11:05 PM
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I'm using skschatzman's global settings but still finding the picture a bit milky looking. Is there a tweak that will mitigate some of that perceived haze? I've tried upping the gamma but it's not quite enough.
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post #367 of 452 Old 03-28-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CFC View Post
Thanks!
I wasn't aware of that. I assumed it would require some for of external pattern generator. I couldn't find much info on the Calman site.
Do you know what the minimum requirement on the video card is?

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Hi, you have to see if the upcoming CalMAN Home, will have support for Vizio and workflow for Vizio DV calibration first.

CalMAN Enthusiast had that, but its not available for sale anymore.

CalMAN software pattern generation to be able to output correct DV patterns, it will require a bit-perfect 1080p60 RGB-PC Levels signal HDMI output, because these patterns contain some special pixels encoded, for TV to understand them.

You will need an Intel or Nvidia (not Quadro) GPU based notebook, with proper configuration it may work but there some issues with drivers, so even if you have Intel GPU, it may not work accurately, see there, there no specific list of notebook that it will work, you need to personally test it: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56571308

To trigger DV, CalMAN software generator will send initially this image: https://displaycalibrations.com/imag...st_Pattern.png

HD Fury is not required for Vizio and DV, since Vizio don't require injection of a vendor infoframe (Dolby Vision VSIF), to forge the TV to enter its DV mode. (something that LG 2017/2018 will require)

From external pattern generation solutions, Murideo Six-G or VideoForge PRO will work.
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post #368 of 452 Old 03-28-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffcdo View Post
I'm using skschatzman's global settings but still finding the picture a bit milky looking. Is there a tweak that will mitigate some of that perceived haze? I've tried upping the gamma but it's not quite enough.
What do you mean by milky? Are you referring to SDR content? HDR? Are you watching content in a dark room or with light?
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post #369 of 452 Old 03-28-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
What do you mean by milky? Are you referring to SDR content? HDR? Are you watching content in a dark room or with light?
Both SDR and HDR content, it appears that the blacks are slightly lifted. The picture appears a little white overall. Watching in a dark room. Upping the gamma seems to take it in the right direction but it's not quite enough - mostly just darkening the picture overall which I then have to compensate for with the backlight setting.
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post #370 of 452 Old 03-28-2019, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffcdo View Post
Both SDR and HDR content, it appears that the blacks are slightly lifted. The picture appears a little white overall. Watching in a dark room. Upping the gamma seems to take it in the right direction but it's not quite enough - mostly just darkening the picture overall which I then have to compensate for with the backlight setting.
Elevated blacks with HDR in a dark room is quite normal. HDR is intended to be viewed in a room with low ambient lighting. The ambient lighting helps reduce the visibility of raised blacks and also helps your eyes adjust better to large contrasting scenes.

For SDR in a dark room, make sure FALD is set to low. Adjust backlight to 2. Be aware that during a full black image there will be a feint glow as the backlights don't completely turn off.

I recommend using gamma 2.2 or lower. There should be no need to use gamma 2.4 with these sets as the local dimming is too strong and shadow detail will be lost.
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post #371 of 452 Old 04-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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It's known that there is much content that is pushed 240 and 250 now so it's good to have that headroom.

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I would like to get some feedback on this. When I push contrast down to 44 ... I can see all the bars ... and scenes with clouds seem more detailed. So which bar should be clipped? Looking for guidance.
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post #372 of 452 Old 04-24-2019, 12:03 PM
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I would like to get some feedback on this. When I push contrast down to 44 ... I can see all the bars ... and scenes with clouds seem more detailed. So which bar should be clipped? Looking for guidance.
If Vizio did indeed separate the contrast setting for all 3 modes....(SDR, DV and HDR10) Then I would definitely lower contrast to clip at 250.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #373 of 452 Old 04-24-2019, 12:38 PM
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If Vizio did indeed separate the contrast setting for all 3 modes....(SDR, DV and HDR10) Then I would definitely lower contrast to clip at 250.
I wonder what the nit hit would be? Maybe peak drops to 1700.

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post #374 of 452 Old 04-30-2019, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I am now finally able to put the Vizio PQ65 into Dolby Vision from my laptop using Calman Enthusiast. From what I can see there is either something seriously wrong with the DVGR or a setting I'm using. The DVGR EOFT targets a peak luminance of 1300nits and my colorimeter reads 100% white as over 2500nits. I'm at a loss and have no clue what the deal is. Is there a specific configuration I am supposed to use or window size? I am asking here before I start the tediously long process of contacting Vizio. If anyone has found the data for this would be great.
Maybe @ConnecTEDDD
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post #375 of 452 Old 04-30-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I am now finally able to put the Vizio PQ65 into Dolby Vision from my laptop using Calman Enthusiast. From what I can see there is either something seriously wrong with the DVGR or a setting I'm using. The DVGR EOFT targets a peak luminance of 1300nits and my colorimeter reads 100% white as over 2500nits. I'm at a loss and have no clue what the deal is. Is there a specific configuration I am supposed to use or window size? I am asking here before I start the tediously long process of contacting Vizio. If anyone has found the data for this would be great.
Maybe @ConnecTEDDD
My target DVGR target is 2000 and my 100% white reads around 2100 or 2200 and is really not bad ootb except for the low end.

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post #376 of 452 Old 04-30-2019, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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My target DVGR target is 2000 and my 100% white reads around 2100 or 2200 and is really not bad ootb except for the low end.

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Wtf. That is so wierd. I downloaded the DVGR last night. I may have to do a clean install of Calman.
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post #377 of 452 Old 04-30-2019, 10:15 AM
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Wtf. That is so wierd. I downloaded the DVGR last night. I may have to do a clean install of Calman.
Yeah, idk. Those problems you are describing are very weird indeed. Hopefully you can get it figured out. I'm sure you didn't download the standard P Series one which would be closer to what you are seeing but that's the only thing I could think.....even then, I think that one targets 1000. Super weird.

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post #378 of 452 Old 04-30-2019, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
Yeah, idk. Those problems you are describing are very weird indeed. Hopefully you can get it figured out. I'm sure you didn't download the standard P Series one which would be closer to what you are seeing but that's the only thing I could think.....even then, I think that one targets 1000. Super weird.

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I'm more than positive as I double checked after I saw the issue and the DVGR was labeled with PQ65.

Edit: I performed a complete wipe and clean install of Calman. Now the DVGR loaded correctly and my peak luminance target shows 2000nits.

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post #379 of 452 Old 05-01-2019, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated my SDR calibration. Also I remade the offset matrix and used the BenQ V2 profile as it was closer to my i1 Pro2 readings than the Samsung profile.
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post #380 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 09:12 AM
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Updated my SDR calibration. Also I remade the offset matrix and used the BenQ V2 profile as it was closer to my i1 Pro2 readings than the Samsung profile.
skschatzman,

What was the target luminance for your SDR calibration? Have you noticed any black crush, post calibration?

My PQ65 recently updated to the 2.1.7.1 firmware, so I too ran an SDR calibration last night. I targeted REC709, BT1886 EOTF @ 120nits. After the calibration I was generally happy with the results except that I noticed black crush which I don't remember seeing before. I started my calibration by turning off all of the processing settings, changing picture mode to Calibrated Dark and Gamma to 2.2. My backlight is set to 6 to achieve 120nits at 100% white. I then used the RGB Gain controls to balance the RGB levels @ 100% white. After that I went through a Greyscale and color calibration.

My post calibration settings are:

Color Tuner: R,G,B,C,M,Y
Hue: -3,-6,2,1,-1,3
Saturation: 2,0,6,-6,5,3
Brightness: -8,2,0,1,-2,0

White Balance: R,G,B
Offset: 0,0,0
Gain: 12,-18,-26

``5%: 33,33,40
`10%: 9,11,16
`20%: 2,5,2
`30%: 3,6,3
`40%: 0,7,5
`50%: 0,9,6
`60%: -14,-3,-7
`70%: -19,-4,-7
`80%: -18,-11,-7
`90%: -10,-4,-3
100%: 0,5,5

Compared to your set mine must be deficient in Red, so I had to increase the Red gain and decrease the Green gain. I also notice that my 5% gains are significantly higher than yours.
Could this indicate some problem which is causing the black crush?
It looks like your set has a dip from 20%-50% while mine has a peak from 60%-90%.

I finished the calibration late last night so I didn't get a lot of time to check out the results but I did go through a couple of dark scenes to test the black performance and look for banding.

In Game of Thrones Season 8 Epsiode 3 (the latest) I see black crush in Thyion Lanister's cloak in the opening sequence as the camera focuses on him just after Sam Tarly leaves the scene.

In the last episode of season two of Stranger Things, when eleven and the Sheriff are in the stairwell helping the injured scientist I notice significant banding on the wall behind eleven.

Other than these dark issues, I'm happy with what I'm seeing. Do you have any suggestion about what I could do differently in my calibration to eliminate the black crush? Should I use a Log Gamma 2.2 target for EOTF rather than BT.1886?

Thanks,
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post #381 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I do not recommend targeting BT.1886 with these sets. The local dimming does a good job with dark scenes. I found that targeting BT.1886 will cause black crush. I suggest targeting Power Gamma 2.2.
Use calibrated dark.
Factory reset before calibrating.
What meter(s) and preset matrix are you using?
What is your pattern source?
Can you upload an image of your pre and post calibration?

Season 2 of Stranger Things is Dolby Vision so it is not good for testing SDR calibration.

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post #382 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I do not recommend targeting BT.1886 with these sets. The local dimming does a good job with dark scenes. I found that targeting BT.1886 will cause black crush. I suggest targeting Power Gamma 2.2.
Use calibrated dark.
Factory reset before calibrating.
What meter(s) and preset matrix are you using?
What is your pattern source?
Can you upload an image of your pre and post calibration?
I guess that depends on how you calibrate as well. If you calibrate with Local Dimming Off then you would actually have less crush then 2.2 Gamma even. Obviously with LD On and a 10% Window it would be 2.4.

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post #383 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
I guess that depends on how you calibrate as well. If you calibrate with Local Dimming Off then you would actually have less crush then 2.2 Gamma even. Obviously with LD On and a 10% Window it would be 2.4.

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I don't recommend turning off LD for calibration as the results after turning it back on show obvious issues.

I target 2.2 with LD on using 10% windows. 2.4 + LD algorithm visually crushes blacks on these sets.
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post #384 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 10:44 AM
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I don't recommend turning off LD for calibration as the results after turning it back on show obvious issues.

I target 2.2 with LD on using 10% windows. 2.4 + LD algorithm visually crushes blacks on these sets.
I hear ya, I'm usually back and forth between On with 10% and Off. Why does it say on the first post of the P Quantum thread under calibration notes that Vizio recommends calibrating with LD Off or using APL Patterns? Where is that source from? @Noydcom ?

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post #385 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I hear ya, I'm usually back and forth between On with 10% and Off. Why does it say on the first post of the P Quantum thread under calibration notes that Vizio recommends calibrating with LD Off or using APL Patterns? Where is that source from? @Noydcom ?

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The OP put that in there. It is not something Vizio has ever stated.
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The OP put that in there. It is not something Vizio has ever stated.
OP got it from this though. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...php?p=56524754

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The OP put that in there. It is not something Vizio has ever stated.
Also, how much does Noydcom know about their Calibration process and sorts? He seemed pretty involved and knew what was going on with the calibration process of the 2016/2017 sets so was just curious if he still is. Either way I could see the argument for both. If if have the LD on Off, Low, Medium, or High they will all have different end results in regard to calibration. Medium actually gave me the lowest average DeltaE to begin with followed by Off and then Low.

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post #388 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
Also, how much does Noydcom know about their Calibration process and sorts? He seemed pretty involved and knew what was going on with the calibration process of the 2016/2017 sets so was just curious if he still is. Either way I could see the argument for both. If if have the LD on Off, Low, Medium, or High they will all have different end results in regard to calibration. Medium actually gave me the lowest average DeltaE to begin with followed by Off and then Low.

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OP got it from this though. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...php?p=56524754

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Noydcom no longer has an active presense in these forums. Looking over that post I can see a number of incorrect or not so accurate information. I don't believe this was information derived from Vizio, but rather from another source. There are many calibrators that recommend turning off FALD for calibration, but I just don't see how that can be accurate when the FALD has a direct impact on the output.

Also note that he doesn't specify only turning it off for SDR calibration. The FALD should be on for DV/HDR calibration as it is needed for tone mapping.
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post #389 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 12:04 PM
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I do not recommend targeting BT.1886 with these sets. The local dimming does a good job with dark scenes. I found that targeting BT.1886 will cause black crush. I suggest targeting Power Gamma 2.2.
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Use calibrated dark.
Factory reset before calibrating.
I did both of those before calibrating.
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What meter(s) and preset matrix are you using?
What is your pattern source?
Can you upload an image of your pre and post calibration?
Using an i1Display Pro OEM (2000 nit version) and HCFR. I'm using the non-refresh display setting.
Pattern source is visca blaugrana's Gamut Calibration Disc streamed from a NAS via Oppo UDP-203.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Season 2 of Stranger Things is Dolby Vision so it is not good for testing SDR calibration.
After seeing some of the banding on HDR sources with my PQ65 I haven't made the investment in the top tier Netflix, so I'm only getting the SDR source. Maybe if this firmware fixes HDR processing I'll pony up the extra $2.

-phil

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post #390 of 452 Old 05-02-2019, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
Will do.



I did both of those before calibrating.



Using an i1Display Pro OEM (2000 nit version) and HCFR. I'm using the non-refresh display setting.

Pattern source is visca blaugrana's Gamut Calibration Disc streamed from a NAS via Oppo UDP-203.



After seeing some of the banding on HDR sources with my PQ65 I haven't made the investment in the top tier Netflix, so I'm only getting the SDR source. Maybe if this firmware fixes HDR processing I'll pony up the extra $2.



-phil
Banding was reduced with the latest firmware.

I don't believe that is the correct meter matrix profile. You may want to check that or invest in a spectrometer or pay a local calibrator to create a profile for you.

Try putting the patterns on a thumb drive connected directly to the display USB.
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