2018 Vizio PQ65-F1 Calibration Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 424 Old 09-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I compared measurements from my enhanced i1pro 2 to my C6 HDR2000 using the different meter modes. The 2018 Samsung Quantum meter mode was closer to the i1pro 2 measurements than the Vizio RS Quantum. That is how I determined it.
OK, then your recommendation is valid, good test.
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post #32 of 424 Old 09-05-2018, 07:18 PM
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Here are my calibration settings. I have two ColorMunki and they were about 1% apart on color and matching on brightness. I use AVSHD from my Oppo player and HCFR 3.5.1.4. I calibrated to 2.4 gamma to be close to BT.1886.



My primary and secondary luminance are all a bit low and I will use the CMS to brighten them a bit next chance I get. That might move them a bit closer to REC709 targets.



Attached is my HCFR calibration file. Highest grayscale DeltaE is 0.5.



Auto Brightness Control OFF
Backlight 21
Brightness 50
Contrast 50
Color 50
Tint 0
Sharpness 0

Color Temp Normal
Black Detail OFF
Xtreme Black Engine Pro Low

Motion Control
Judder 3
Motion Blur 5
Clear Action OFF

Reduce Noise
Reduce Signal Noise OFF
Reduce Block Noise OFF

Game Low Latency OFF
Film Mode OFF (cable box) ON (BD)
Color Spare AUTO
Gamma 2.4
Enhanced View Angle OFF

Color Tuner
R G B C M Y
0 -1 0 -1 -1 0
0 1 0 5 0 2
0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0
0 0 0

11 Point Calibration
5% 10 0 1
10% 8 0 -4
20% 6 0 -9
30% 11 0 -12
40% 11 0 -14
50% 15 0 -16
60% 13 0 -22
70% 25 0 -24
80% 35 0 -22
90% 28 0 -30
100% 27 -5 -37
Attached Files
File Type: zip 9-2-2018.zip (30.3 KB, 117 views)
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post #33 of 424 Old 09-05-2018, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't mind posting a link to your settings on the OP, but I notice something you may want to look at.

Gain should be used to correct the overall white balance. It looks like you just used 11pt. If it works then great, but it is much easier to use gain first, then 11pt will require much less adjustments.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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post #34 of 424 Old 09-06-2018, 08:21 PM
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Does 11-point tuner work in HDR mode?
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post #35 of 424 Old 09-06-2018, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Does 11-point tuner work in HDR mode?
Yes
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post #36 of 424 Old 09-06-2018, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Yes
Strange, I was running HDR10 white balance windows and 11-point tuner had no effect on any of them...I tried both smart cast app and through TV menu, full uhd color was enabled.
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post #37 of 424 Old 09-06-2018, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Strange, I was running HDR10 white balance windows and 11-point tuner had no effect on any of them...I tried both smart cast app and through TV menu, full uhd color was enabled.
11pt works in HDR, but not like SDR. It tone maps to different points.

100=75-100
90=70
80=65
70=60
60=55
50=50
40=45
30=40
20=35
10=25
5=15

This is roughly what it translates. So if you are adjusting 70% pattern window, use the 90% adjustment, etc. Also it is not recommended to use the built in full field patterns for calibration. HDR is designed to be calibrated with 10% windows.
https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/index.html

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post #38 of 424 Old 09-06-2018, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
11pt works in HDR, but not like SDR. It tone maps to different points.

100=75-100
90=70
80=65
70=60
60=55
50=50
40=45
30=40
20=35
10=25
5=15

This is roughly what it translates. So if you are adjusting 70% pattern window, use the 90% adjustment, etc. Also it is not recommended to use the built in full field patterns for calibration. HDR is designed to be calibrated with 10% windows.
https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/index.html
Thanks, will try this out tomorrow and report back.
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post #39 of 424 Old 09-07-2018, 08:25 PM
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Well, I tried to get the gray scale straightened out and the 11-point did not have any effect after 40% or above on any gray window.
I was able to reign in 10% to 45% but after that, nothing made any difference.
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post #40 of 424 Old 09-07-2018, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post
Well, I tried to get the gray scale straightened out and the 11-point did not have any effect after 40% or above on any gray window.
I was able to reign in 10% to 45% but after that, nothing made any difference.
What pattern source are you using?
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post #41 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 05:45 AM
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So I’ve read a lot of P/PQ reviews that indicate calibrated is best for regular viewing with typical light levels. When I try this setting during regular viewing in my modestly lit room it appears to bright (colors are not deep enough / black levels to light). Calibrated dark and gamma of 2.4 seem to be the best to my eyes even with average ambient light. Am I missing something? I’m following the other typical picture setting recommendations

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post #42 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
What pattern source are you using?
I had downloaded HDR10 from avsforum thread a couple of years back, similar to the free download found here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...-patterns.html

I will try the above link's patterns and see if they make any difference.
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post #43 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sirbrillo View Post
So I’ve read a lot of P/PQ reviews that indicate calibrated is best for regular viewing with typical light levels. When I try this setting during regular viewing in my modestly lit room it appears to bright (colors are not deep enough / black levels to light). Calibrated dark and gamma of 2.4 seem to be the best to my eyes even with average ambient light. Am I missing something? I’m following the other typical picture setting recommendations
That doesn't sound right at all. Gamma 2.2 produces deep blacks for my panel. I would contact Vizio. Just for reference, please post pictures.

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post #44 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post
I had downloaded HDR10 from avsforum thread a couple of years back, similar to the free download found here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...-patterns.html

I will try the above link's patterns and see if they make any difference.
Yah, I recommend purchasing the R.Masciola patterns. Well worth it.
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post #45 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 02:09 PM
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Yah, I recommend purchasing the R.Masciola patterns. Well worth it.
hmm, looks like i will be getting DVS UHD|HDR-10 & HLG-HDR Test Pattern Suite File Package Bundle (MP4/TS), price is reasonable.
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post #46 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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hmm, looks like i will be getting DVS UHD|HDR-10 & HLG-HDR Test Pattern Suite File Package Bundle (MP4/TS), price is reasonable.
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post #47 of 424 Old 09-08-2018, 07:41 PM
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So with keeping Calibrated settings at default, was able to tune gray scale, but to the following mapping:


My X-Rite i1Display Pro couldn't detect any changes or the TV at that light output couldn't make any adjustments.
*100=75-100
*90=70

These were the mappings for my TV.
80=75
70=70
60=70
50=65
40=55
30=50
20=35
10=30
5=15

Also, I had to reduce blue gain to -20 to bring 55% or higher grays to respond to the color tuner.

Bandings seem less intrusive but still significant. I only did the grayscale, that itself iimproves the picture significantly... not sure if calibrating the colors will make any differences in bandings/posterisation.
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post #48 of 424 Old 09-09-2018, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The tone mapping % is off. From my experience with multiple 2016-2018 Vizio models, tone mapping adjustments/targets are fairly universal. Use only the calibrated dark preset for calibration as the EOTF requires the TV gamma set to 2.2 during readings.
1. Did you put the patterns on a thumb drive? Connected to the TV?
2. What calibration software are you using? Workflow? Meter mode?
3. In what order did you perform calibration? Did you start with brightness/contrast? List every step.
4. When you perform any calibration please post the results with images/settings. This will help the critique.

Last edited by skschatzman; 09-09-2018 at 06:11 AM.
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post #49 of 424 Old 09-09-2018, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
The tone mapping % is off. From my experience with multiple 2016-2018 Vizio models, tone mapping adjustments/targets are fairly universal. Use only the calibrated dark preset for calibration as the EOTF requires the TV gamma set to 2.2 during readings.
1. Did you put the patterns on a thumb drive? Connected to the TV?
2. What calibration software are you using? Workflow? Meter mode?
3. In what order did you perform calibration? Did you start with brightness/contrast? List every step.
4. When you perform any calibration please post the results with images/settings. This will help the critique.
1. The files are on Shield TV, which is connected directly to the TV in 4:2:2 Rec.2020 settings
2. ColorHCFR
3. I skipped the brightness/contrast settings as it was having minimal to no effect on the brightness/contrast patterns. Started with 5% and up
4. I will post results in coming days.

Sorry for my ignorance regarding #2 's other questions: Workflow: Where can I get that? Meter mode: Where do I set that in ColorHCFR?

Thanks
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post #50 of 424 Old 09-09-2018, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post
1. The files are on Shield TV, which is connected directly to the TV in 4:2:2 Rec.2020 settings
2. ColorHCFR
3. I skipped the brightness/contrast settings as it was having minimal to no effect on the brightness/contrast patterns. Started with 5% and up
4. I will post results in coming days.

Sorry for my ignorance regarding #2 's other questions: Workflow: Where can I get that? Meter mode: Where do I set that in ColorHCFR?

Thanks
1. Put the files on a thumb drive and connect to the TV USB. Calibrate the TV this way and then you can verify the results on other devices after calibration. Not all devices output the same way and sometimes are incorrect.
2. I don't use HCFR, but there should be a way in the settings to change the meter mode profile. Ask in the HFCR thread. If there is an option for 2018 Samsung QLED, use it. Every display technology has different ouput properties that the meter will read differently. In order to get the most accurate readings, the meter mode needs to be accurate. If you want even more accuracy, use a spectrometer to create an offset profile.
3. That isn't good if brightness/contrast adjustments aren't working. After testing the patterns on the TV, see if the results change. With Grayscale always start with 100% and work down.
4.
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post #51 of 424 Old 09-09-2018, 11:27 AM
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Well, this is turning out to be a rabbit hole, I bought my i1 Display Pro in 2014 and apparently it may not be able to work with HDR peak brightness.

Still looking at other things.
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post #52 of 424 Old 09-09-2018, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post
Well, this is turning out to be a rabbit hole, I bought my i1 Display Pro in 2014 and apparently it may not be able to work with HDR peak brightness.

Still looking at other things.
The new ones are rated to read accurately up to 2000nits
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post #53 of 424 Old 09-09-2018, 01:26 PM
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Here are my calibration settings. I have two ColorMunki and they were about 1% apart on color and matching on brightness. I use AVSHD from my Oppo player and HCFR 3.5.1.4. I calibrated to 2.4 gamma to be close to BT.1886.
Before starting the grayscale adjustments, take a 21-Point Grayscale run measuring all display available gamma presets, then view the reports and choose to work with the one that you see that is measures closer to your target gamma (so you save time from less adjustments which will be required to fix the issues later).

Do the same test with colorspace preset (taking 4-Point Saturation sweeps....choose the one that has better tracking of REC.709) and do the same with Color Temp preset (taking 21-Point Grayscale....choose the one that has less RGB errors in average, to see which mode is closer to D65).

BTE, to the HCFR. fo to HCFR Preferences -> Advanced -> change the Grayscale handling to ''Absolute Y w/gamma'', to include to the dE calculation the gamma errors also. (Color Difference Formula from Recommend to CIE2000)

Look at each % Grey data the meter reports, there is a Y (which shows to you the measured luminance) and the Y target (which show the target luminance), and re-adjust your settings to fix gamma errors also.

When you will find all these, you will do contrast/brightness/color clipping check via patterns and after that you will start to calibrate your grayscale. Start with 2-Point RGB balance and do 100% White with RGB-Gain and 30% Gray with RGB-Offeset controls, when you will do many back/forth until you have stable readings, you will move to 10-Point RGB balance, after your are ready with grayscale you will move to CMS calibration.

When you will start with 100% White, keep one of the R or G or B at zero position and reduce values from other 2 controls, while to handle your luminance output (nits) you will use the backlight (not the RGB balance controls).

If you have 10-Point RGB balance controls, its better idea to use 21-Point Grayscale patterns, its better for detecting un-align of calibration controls adjustments with displayed xx% patterns.

Also a good approach is to not perform static pattern real-time (with TV menus active, that can affect your measurements), but to run a complete grayscale sweep and then look your charts and apply at once all the settings per each control you believe that will fix (reduce) the errors, then run a new grayscale sweep and you will see that your errors will be lower now, then repeat-repeat until the results will be good.

After the end of grayscale you will move to CMS calibration, after the end of CMS cal, re-check grayscale again.

For SDR REC.709 calibration you have to use patterns designed for REC.709 and compatible with HCFR color engine.

For example, the AVSHD you are using, it has a mismatch to grayscale patterns (see more details reading the ''3'' here), this can be fixed from inside HCFR with a software offset, see here what you can do to fix the issue: LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

Also the 4-Point Saturation of AVSHD is not compatible with HCFR (and there no fix about this), for example:

AVSHD 50% Red Saturation Pattern has RGB Triplet 190.95.95 but HCFR's Color Engine needs/calculates errors from RGB Triplet 191.96.96, it's 0.42 dE2000 error.

AVSHD 75% Magenta Saturation Pattern has RGB Triplet 203.100.203 but HCFR's Color Engine needs/calculates errors from RGB Triplet 202.99.202, it's 0.36 dE2000 error.

Quote:
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. It looks like you just used 11pt. If it works then great, but it is much easier to use gain first, then 11pt will require much less adjustments.
+1
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post #54 of 424 Old 09-10-2018, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I posted SDR calibration results for my PQ65-F1. It is being replaced soon for other defects, but the calibration is valid and improves picture detail/quality.
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I posted SDR calibration results for my PQ65-F1. It is being replaced soon for other defects, but the calibration is valid and improves picture detail/quality.


What do you mean by Game Dark? Does that just mean Dark Calibrated with Game mode on? I wonder if that has the same input lag as just straight game mode.
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post #56 of 424 Old 09-10-2018, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you mean by Game Dark? Does that just mean Dark Calibrated with Game mode on? I wonder if that has the same input lag as just straight game mode.
I created a new picture profile from Game and named it Game Dark. It shares the exact same properties, but instead uses a backlight of 6 for SDR gaming in the dark.
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post #57 of 424 Old 09-10-2018, 08:41 AM
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I created a new picture profile from Game and named it Game Dark. It shares the exact same properties, but instead uses a backlight of 6 for SDR gaming in the dark.
Gotcha... just to make sure I understand how it works as I am new to the world of calibration... You start your xbox or ps4 select game or game dark, depending on environmental lighting, which has your SDR settings, then when you insert a HDR source it will switch to that profile raising the backlight and Local Dimming from Low to Medium. If you want to make any changes to the color calibration for HDR or DV vs what you had set on SDR you will have to make sure that you have an HDR/DV source displayed first then you can input those values.
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post #58 of 424 Old 09-10-2018, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Keabrown79 View Post
Gotcha... just to make sure I understand how it works as I am new to the world of calibration... You start your xbox or ps4 select game or game dark, depending on environmental lighting, which has your SDR settings, then when you insert a HDR source it will switch to that profile raising the backlight and Local Dimming from Low to Medium. If you want to make any changes to the color calibration for HDR or DV vs what you had set on SDR you will have to make sure that you have an HDR/DV source displayed first then you can input those values.
Correct SDR is the base settings. HDR/DV settings automatically load when content is being watched.
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post #59 of 424 Old 09-12-2018, 09:12 AM
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Gotcha... just to make sure I understand how it works as I am new to the world of calibration... You start your xbox or ps4 select game or game dark, depending on environmental lighting, which has your SDR settings, then when you insert a HDR source it will switch to that profile raising the backlight and Local Dimming from Low to Medium. If you want to make any changes to the color calibration for HDR or DV vs what you had set on SDR you will have to make sure that you have an HDR/DV source displayed first then you can input those values.
If you're HDR source is a game then yes, all is good. If you're watching Netflix, 4K Blu-Ray, etc. you'll want to switch to Calibrated/Calibrated Dark since you don't want GLL and other game-specific settings on when watching a movie/TV show.

Just picked mine up from Best Buy last night, so haven't had a lot of time to play with it. Coming from a 2016 P65-C1.

@skschatzman I found the same thing you did with Xtreme Black Engine needing to be set to Low for SDR content. The pause icon and slider bar in Netflix was blooming bad with it set to Medium watching an SDR show, went away when I switched to Low. Medium for DV so far is great.

One odd thing I noticed, and maybe someone else has as well, is it seems there are some backend differences between Calibrated and Calibrated Dark that weren't present on my P65-C1. On that TV if I set all the setting identical for both modes and switched between them there was no change in the picture, which made sense. Now when watching Daredevil as a test yesterday if I set everything identical (including Gamma) the picture was noticeably brighter with Calibrated vs. Calibrated Dark. I tried setting both to 2.1 Gamma and 2.2 Gamma with the same effect. Any thoughts on this? Are there now backend differences between the modes, as opposed to the only differences being what you specify in the settings?
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post #60 of 424 Old 09-12-2018, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by football751 View Post
@skschatzman I found the same thing you did with Xtreme Black Engine needing to be set to Low for SDR content. The pause icon and slider bar in Netflix was blooming bad with it set to Medium watching an SDR show, went away when I switched to Low. Medium for DV so far is great.

One odd thing I noticed, and maybe someone else has as well, is it seems there are some backend differences between Calibrated and Calibrated Dark that weren't present on my P65-C1. On that TV if I set all the setting identical for both modes and switched between them there was no change in the picture, which made sense. Now when watching Daredevil as a test yesterday if I set everything identical (including Gamma) the picture was noticeably brighter with Calibrated vs. Calibrated Dark. I tried setting both to 2.1 Gamma and 2.2 Gamma with the same effect. Any thoughts on this? Are there now backend differences between the modes, as opposed to the only differences being what you specify in the settings?
Vizio hasn't released the Dolby Vision Golden Reference(DVGR) files required for calibration, so I haven't even looked at graphs yet. If calibrated/calibrated dark are configured identical, there should be no difference with image output between them. I'll test it tonight.

On a side note, my replacement TV is in my area. Just have to wait til Saturday for the delivery company.
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