Sony Master Series A9F Calibration and Settings - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 278 Old 07-31-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
BTW LG Electronics with Dolby Laboratories have published an article during SID's Display Week 2018, its available inside the SID Symposium Digest of Technical Papers - Volume 49, Issue 1 (May 2018) issue.

For that study, 'Correcting Metameric Failure of Wide Color Gamut Displays', using 13 reliable observers they performed a visual color matching trying to match a Reference Grade-1 CRT with the LG OLED and they found that to perceptual match the Reference (CRT) White, a custom White Point with x: 0.308 y: 0.313 coordinates has to be used.

But its always better to use a reference spectro and a (CRT or Plasma) at home, to perform your own perceptual matching.
If there's a simpler way to go about this other than CalMAN, I'm open to it. I read the instructions in the posts you provided and 10 years ago, I spent more time staring at test patterns than watching movies in an attempt to arrive at the "perfect" result, but these days, close enough is good enough. That's why I went with CalMAN/AutoCal in the first place.

I'm happy with the results I've achieved with my i1 Display Pro on my other displays (Kuro 500M, Sony PVM CRT, and several desktop and laptop LCDs). If I can pick a target white point for the A9F that gets me most of the way there and then do a perceptual match with one of my other displays to help close the gap, I'm satisfied with that. It doesn't need to be perfect and I'm not interested in hiring someone to get that last 2% out of the display; I just want something better than the out-of-the-box calibration.

Maybe I'll give x: 0.308, y: 0.313 a shot followed by a perceptual match to one of my other displays.
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post #272 of 278 Old 08-02-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
BTW LG Electronics with Dolby Laboratories have published an article during SID's Display Week 2018, its available inside the SID Symposium Digest of Technical Papers - Volume 49, Issue 1 (May 2018) issue.

For that study, 'Correcting Metameric Failure of Wide Color Gamut Displays', using 13 reliable observers they performed a visual color matching trying to match a Reference Grade-1 CRT with the LG OLED and they found that to perceptual match the Reference (CRT) White, a custom White Point with x: 0.308 y: 0.313 coordinates has to be used.

But its always better to use a reference spectro and a (CRT or Plasma) at home, to perform your own perceptual matching.
Just wanted to follow up on this recommendation. Thank you! I performed a calibration last night using this white point and it's already a great match to what I see on my other displays, even without manual tweaks. I plan to do a side-by-side comparison sometime this weekend, but I can't imagine I'll need to touch the gains much at all to get it spot on.

The only odd thing—and maybe it's panel variance, I don't know—is that to achieve 120 nits on a 10% 100 IRE pattern, I ended up with Brightness at 22, which is much higher than what others have reported on the A9F. I can't really complain because I won the panel lottery in pretty much every other way (uniformity, dead pixels, etc.) and there are still enough nits in reserve to have a dedicated Day calibration if I want one.
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post #273 of 278 Old 08-02-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post
Just wanted to follow up on this recommendation. Thank you! I performed a calibration last night using this white point and it's already a great match to what I see on my other displays, even without manual tweaks. I plan to do a side-by-side comparison sometime this weekend, but I can't imagine I'll need to touch the gains much at all to get it spot on.

The only odd thing—and maybe it's panel variance, I don't know—is that to achieve 120 nits on a 10% 100 IRE pattern, I ended up with Brightness at 22, which is much higher than what others have reported on the A9F. I can't really complain because I won the panel lottery in pretty much every other way (uniformity, dead pixels, etc.) and there are still enough nits in reserve to have a dedicated Day calibration if I want one.
For your SDR calibration, turn to off the Peak Luminance. It will provide lower peak output but slightly less distortions when you will take volumetric measurements like the ones I have posted at past:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57100374

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57103058

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #274 of 278 Old 08-02-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
For your SDR calibration, turn to off the Peak Luminance. It will provide lower peak output but slightly less distortions when you will take volumetric measurements like the ones I have posted at past:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57100374

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57103058
Disable Peak Luminance just during calibration or disable it entirely?

Will it make a noticeable difference in actual content? I've run my display through so many AutoCAL sessions that I'm starting to get a bit nervous about the image retention caused by the window patterns.
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post #275 of 278 Old 08-02-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post
Disable Peak Luminance just during calibration or disable it entirely?

Will it make a noticeable difference in actual content? I've run my display through so many AutoCAL sessions that I'm starting to get a bit nervous about the image retention caused by the window patterns.
That setting affect how the W-subpixel will handle the peak output of the panel, so its a setting you preset during pre-calibration and never touch it again after calibration.

Disabling it for ever it will reduce a lot your peak output, but it will be better overall for the panel performance.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #276 of 278 Old 08-02-2019, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
That setting affect how the W-subpixel will handle the peak output of the panel, so its a setting you preset during pre-calibration and never touch it again after calibration.

Disabling it for ever it will reduce a lot your peak output, but it will be better overall for the panel performance.
Right, that was my understanding. I was confused because I thought you were recommending disabling it during calibration only for some reason. Thanks for clarifying.

Given my SDR nit target, I suppose I could disable Peak Brightness in that scenario and not lose much punch, but wouldn't disabling it in HDR pretty much ruin HDR? Or are you recommending disabling it in SDR for accuracy, but leaving it on for HDR?
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post #277 of 278 Old 08-02-2019, 04:44 PM
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Right, that was my understanding. I was confused because I thought you were recommending disabling it during calibration only for some reason. Thanks for clarifying.

Given my SDR nit target, I suppose I could disable Peak Brightness in that scenario and not lose much punch, but wouldn't disabling it in HDR pretty much ruin HDR? Or are you recommending disabling it in SDR for accuracy, but leaving it on for HDR?
For HDR10, use Peak Brightness High, since you need the maximum W-Subpixel boosting to be able to reach high luminance levels.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #278 of 278 Old 08-03-2019, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post
Just wanted to follow up on this recommendation. Thank you! I performed a calibration last night using this white point and it's already a great match to what I see on my other displays, even without manual tweaks. I plan to do a side-by-side comparison sometime this weekend, but I can't imagine I'll need to touch the gains much at all to get it spot on.
You can see below why the initial custom co-ordinate you used didn't worked well and the custom co-ordinate I suggested you to use has better visual match, lets see the reason below....

Color Matching Functions & Metamerism

The CIE 1931 color matching functions (CMFs) are the basis of all colorimetric measurement systems.

Earlier studies intended to correct historical imperfections in the original data used as the basis of the CIE 1931 CMFs, but like the CIE 1964 Supplementary Standard Observer, have never found widespread favor, because they result in different numbers across the whole colorspace.

Color scientists attempted to define a more accurate CMF but they resulted in a set of CMFs which can solve the metamerism issue for discrete populations of individuals but this would probably not be practical in an operational environment.

These inaccuracies were not a problem when all display devices were CRTs with color reproduction based on very similar phosphors.

With the introduction of LCD displays with LED backlights, and now OLED displays, it has become apparent that these errors result in displays where the white points match when measured may look different, and when matched visually may measure differently.

For Matching Displays that use Different Illumination Technologies, the Perceptual White Point Matching method can be used.

Using a custom coordinate White Point, it may be a practical compromise such that the display may meet both the requirements of written standards, and enable the visual match that is so important in the television production environment.

LG Electronics with Dolby Laboratories have published an article during SID's Display Week 2018, its available inside to SID Symposium Digest of Technical Papers - Volume 49, Issue 1 (May 2018) issue.

For that study, 'Correcting Metameric Failure of Wide Color Gamut Displays', using 13 reliable observers they performed a visual color matching method trying to match a Reference Grade-1 CRT with the LG OLED and they found that to perceptual match the Reference White of CRT, a custom White Point with x: 0.308 y: 0.313 coordinates has to be used for the LG OLED.

Also LG has worked closely with Technicolor to incorporate Technicolor's in-house D65 perceptual match White Point target, by adding a custom target white point with co-ordinates of x: 0.300 y: 0.327.

But these coordinates are not really working, because Technicolor tried to match a Xenon DCI Cinema Projector as reference (with DCI primaries and D65 White Point), so these coordinates are only helpful for those which are working in post-production and use LG OLED's as client view monitors, for the commercial cinema release of the movie.

For home video release of a movie, a projector as reference is never being used, only with monitors its been performed the mastering of SDR home release of the movies, so there no point for anyone to use a Technicolor custom White Point (for home viewing).

Each colorspace (REC.709 for home release or DCI-P3 for commercial cinema release) while they use exact the same xy coordinates to create the D65 White Point, each colorspace is using different mixture of primary colors luminance to archive that, while both have 6504K color temperature.

When you use the RGB Balance Chart of a calibration software and see the three (R/G/B) Channels Bars at exact 100% = 0 dE; doesn't mean that it has been used equal percentage of luminance per each color channel.

The calibration software it's doing the normalizing the luminance ratio per primary color internally according to the selected colorspace target options to provide to the user interface a more calibration friendly chart.



REC.709 Colorspace D65 White Point (x: 0.3127 y: 0.329, 6504K) is using Red 21.27%, Green 71.52% and Blue 7.22% luminance per each color channel.

DCI-P3 Colorspace D65 White Point (x: 0.3127 y: 0.329, 6504K) is using Red 22.9%, Green 69.17% and Blue 7.93% luminance per each color channel.

REC.2020 Colorspace D65 White Point (x: 0.3127 y: 0.329, 6504K) is using 26.27%, Green 67.80% and Blue 5.93% luminance per each color channel.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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