Sony Master Series A9F Calibration and Settings - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 259 Old 09-05-2018, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Sony Master Series A9F Calibration and Settings

This thread is dedicated to the calibration and user settings for the Sony Master Series OLEDs, specifically the A9F.

The thread will focus on the following:
1) Manual calibration and Auto calibration using the new Calman Autocal process.
2) Gray Scale, CMS, LUT Verification, Color Volume, HDR Tone Mapping and Luminance accuracy to include 20%, 50%, 75% and 100% scans to see how the set performs overall.
3) Pros and cons of using alternate white points with this specific set.
4) Recommendations, tips, or other productive suggestions on how to properly calibrate this set and overcome any issues.
5) Near black detail, posterization and any other PQ pro's and con's specifically related to calibration.
6) Performance and user settings for SDR, HDR10, Dolby Vision, and HLG.
7) General discussion of CM Autocal on any new TVs as it relates to comparison with Sony's implementation.
8) This forum is not for sharing or posting calibration Gray Scale or CMS settings unless used to illustrate a problem.

The idea of this thread is to encourage contributions from Home Enthusiasts and the Professionals and build a calibration knowledge base with factual, useful information that all can learn from and use as we proceed through the model year.

This is going to be a very exciting model year with Sony's Ultimate processor and all of the picture processing improvements they have promised along with the new Calman Autocal calibration process. Also this will be the first time we will have access to Sony's CMS controls.
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post #2 of 259 Old 09-05-2018, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some initial high level calibration scans for the 55 A9F.
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John
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post #3 of 259 Old 09-05-2018, 11:47 PM
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It would be nice to have a LUT verification also.
As we all know, Sony introduced calibration controls in the new Master Series but not so deep as LG did, that doesn't mean that LG can get more accurate than Sony. Panasonic, for example, it's the more accurate set and it doesn't have custom LUT (except EZ1000 series). A LUT verification would better classify the accuracy of the new A9F (or AF9 in the old world). What do you think John?

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post #4 of 259 Old 09-06-2018, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure that's fine. I'll include it in the summary.

John
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post #5 of 259 Old 09-06-2018, 07:55 AM
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For volumetric verification, if anyone profiles with a large LightSpace characterisation patch set I'll plot the data as true volumetric information.

There are examples here: https://www.lightillusion.com/forums...ic=485#msg2817

From these plots it is very easy to see what really is happening with the display's volumetric colour space.
The graphs are generated using plotting software we have for display assessment within Light Illusion.

(I'll happily provide this service for any displays.)

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post #6 of 259 Old 09-09-2018, 10:47 PM
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Thank you Steve, I hope some LS user will buy this set and run the characterization.
Even if I'm not sure if there will be different/better results from what it's shown in the page you linked, it would be interesting to look into it anyway.

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post #7 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 01:35 AM
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Any update on AF9 calibration settings?
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post #8 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 05:56 AM
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@ John,would be nice if you could try rays hdr disc,the wrgbcmy clipping test pattern,does green still clips around 400 nits (my B6) ?

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post #9 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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So i'm trying to decompress from the Shootout and will post my thoughts and more scans on the A9F soon. I have a lot of info to share. I can also take a look at Ryan's disk as well.

For now if you want to see some preliminary scans, look at post #2 above.

The long and the short of the calibration is, it's still difficult to calibrate the Sony since the gray scale controls still have that disposition behavior but the new CMS controls work well. So now when you get a set where the CMS is a little "off" you can easily correct it.
I had a chance to use Autocal for the Sony and it also works really well. It's like the Samsung where Calman is manipulating the user controls but there is no cable. With the Sony you download an app from the Google play store, run it and the set is communicating with Calman. What i found interesting is whatever algorighm they are using, you can easily have Autocal quickly get the gray scale down to 0.2 deltaE then manually tweak it as long as you don't touch the 100%, of course. Same for the CMS. Unlike the LG you are not creating any LUTs but just manipulating the Sony LUT just like you would be doing by manually calibrating.

I've done several sets and i don't see any artifacts or any crazy adjustments in the gray scale or the CMS. I believe it will be generally available shortly.

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post #10 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
@ John,would be nice if you could try rays hdr disc,the wrgbcmy clipping test pattern,does green still clips around 400 nits (my B6) ?
Did you mean Ryan Masciola's HDR disc?
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post #11 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Here are some initial high level calibration scans for the 55 A9F.
Hey jrref,

thank you very much for opening this thread.

I don't yet have my AF9, but it's already ordered. ;-) Hopefully, next week it will arrive. (Europe is always a bit behind... USA is here quicker. ;-))

Can you give a high-level overview of what steps you took?
I have never used AutoCAL but am considering purchasing it to use it with the AF9, but I would like to have a better sense of what the process is before doing this.

Thank you very much in advance!

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post #12 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Did you mean Ryan Masciola's HDR disc?
Thats the one
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While I have the 75Z9F on order, I expect to get some pointers from this thread that will apply to calibrating my set as well. Sorry for asking again here, as I have in at least one other thread, but can we have some details about what is required for the Autocal, and a brief description of how it works? Specifically, which meter(s) are supported, which version of CalMAN is required, and if an external pattern generator is required (and if yes, which one is supported)?

Self-calibrating is important to me, and autoclibration is highly interesting. Thanks for any input.
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post #14 of 259 Old 09-25-2018, 04:07 PM
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According to Sony the CalMAN for Bravia app should now be available for download from the google play store on the TV.

A CalMAN beta that works with the Sony’s is coming very soon
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According to Sony the CalMAN for Bravia app should now be available for download from the google play store on the TV.

A CalMAN beta that works with the Sony’s is coming very soon
Good to see you here, Tyler. Did you see my post immediately above yours? I would really like to see a brief write-up describing exactly what is required to implement the autocalibration capability. I have heard that a C6 meter plus VideoForge Pro is required. The combined price of these two products exceeds $2K, which makes autocalibration seem to be out of reach for the typical amateur home calibrator like myself.

It would be great if you or someone else at Portrait Displays would create a data sheet describing the autocalibration requirements.
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If you want to auto calibrate the Sony all you need is Calman and a C6 or equivalent meter and a SDR pattern generator. (Tyler will MobileForge on an Amazon Fire Stick or equivalent work?.) With the Sony you only need to calibrate SDR and the set does the translations for HDR and DV. Without an HDR pattern generator like VideoForge or equivalent, you won't be able to verify the HDR calibration But I can tell you as long as the SDR calibration is good, I've never seen the HDR calibration have a problem. This process works for most people. If you are a perfectionist, you will want to calibrate a separate PM for HDR and you will need a HDR pattern generator But with this method you will have to manually switch between PMs depending on if you are watching SDR or HDR/DV for a specific input.

The Autocal work flow is quite different for the Sony than what you would expect so you need to read the instructions carefully. The other thing i learned from Tyler is when you autocalibrate, the workflow puts the set in gamma 2.2 and then you calibrate. Once done if you want gamma 2.4 all you need to do is select that on the Sony via the menu and the set does the math for gamma 2.4 At the end of the workflow there are a couple of layouts with gamma 2.4 validation scans in case you are skepticle as i was. You can force Autocal to calibrate in any gamma you want but you get the best results, so far as i can see, when you follow the instructions and calibrate with gamma 2.2.

At a high level, you can Autocalibrate the set and get a gray scale of 0.2 DeltaE in a matter of minutes and the same with the CMS. Then you can use the DDC controls to tweak the gray scale if you want as long as you don't touch ire 100%.

Because Autocal just manipulates the user calibration controls there is little to go wrong but sometimes Autocal will miss and you have to re-run it.

I was telling Tyler that it runs so fast that you can calibrate every time you turn on your TV but my wife would probably have a problem with all the calibration equipment always in our livingroom lol

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Thank you, John, for the detailed explanation. One missing piece of information is the CalMAN software version. I am using CalMAN Home Enthusiast—is that the version that will work? And I am looking forward to Tyler’s answer WRT whether MobileForge will work. I have used MobileForge before using Airplay through an AppleTV, and it works quite well.

So, if all I will need is the C6 meter, that puts it within what I am willing to spend for what looks like an interesting capability.
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@ John,is the cms H-S-L touchable without creating any artifacts,Ted`s patterns is a nice test for this.
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post #19 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 02:18 AM
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Is anybody able to post recommended post calibration settings on the thread? For those who don’t have access to calibration equipment.
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post #20 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Is anybody able to post recommended post calibration settings on the thread? For those who don’t have access to calibration equipment.
That's not permitted in this thread.
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post #21 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thank you, John, for the detailed explanation. One missing piece of information is the CalMAN software version. I am using CalMAN Home Enthusiast—is that the version that will work? And I am looking forward to Tyler’s answer WRT whether MobileForge will work. I have used MobileForge before using Airplay through an AppleTV, and it works quite well.

So, if all I will need is the C6 meter, that puts it within what I am willing to spend for what looks like an interesting capability.
Calman Enthusiast will have the Autocal capability but you need to wait for R3 which should be available shortly according to Tyler. In the mean time get some hours on your set and when Calman is ready you will be ready to calibrate

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post #22 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
@ John,is the cms H-S-L touchable without creating any artifacts,Ted`s patterns is a nice test for this.
Thanks, I purchased Ted's patterns and use this one but again since you are just manipulating the existing Sony LUT, so far these patterns look fine.
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post #23 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thank you, John, for the detailed explanation. One missing piece of information is the CalMAN software version. I am using CalMAN Home Enthusiast—is that the version that will work? And I am looking forward to Tyler’s answer WRT whether MobileForge will work. I have used MobileForge before using Airplay through an AppleTV, and it works quite well.

So, if all I will need is the C6 meter, that puts it within what I am willing to spend for what looks like an interesting capability.
MobileForge should work for SDR, with the caveat that you will need to verify the levels coming out of whatever player hardware you are using it with.

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post #24 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thank you, John, for the detailed explanation. One missing piece of information is the CalMAN software version. I am using CalMAN Home Enthusiast—is that the version that will work? And I am looking forward to Tyler’s answer WRT whether MobileForge will work. I have used MobileForge before using Airplay through an AppleTV, and it works quite well.

So, if all I will need is the C6 meter, that puts it within what I am willing to spend for what looks like an interesting capability.
Hi there,
for what I and others have tested, MobileForge is bit perfect only with Amazon Fire TV. In regards of the meters to use, I warmly suggest to buy also a Spectrometer or you'll end to have a final result worst than using OOTB PM. Colorimeters have large dE compared to a reference Spectrometer (Jeti, Minolta). It depends on your possibilities but xrite i1 Pro 2 is the only "cheap" solution. For the colorimeter I'd also consider the xrite i1 Display Pro OEM (same hardware and spec of the C6 HDR2000) which is cheaper than its rebranded brothers.

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post #25 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 05:32 AM
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Why? I thoughts that’s what this thread is for?
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post #26 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Read the first post in this thread.

John
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post #27 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 06:49 AM
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Do you or anybody know where I can find the best picture settings for my Sony AF9 please. I can’t Afford to get it professionally calibrated? Thank you
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post #28 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 07:25 AM
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Do you or anybody know where I can find the best picture settings for my Sony AF9 please. I can’t Afford to get it professionally calibrated? Thank you
Look for an owner's thread in the OLED Flat Panels area of this forum, and you might find some that people have developed. This thread is about calibrating via 3D LUT, not user settings. They are apples and oranges. You honestly cannot share 3D LUT info, because a 3D LUT has to be loaded via some utility into the display or standalone external LUT box, and the TV must be set up correctly to work with it.

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post #29 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 07:29 AM
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If you want to auto calibrate the Sony all you need is Calman and a C6 or equivalent meter and a SDR pattern generator.
Would an X-rite i1 meter work?
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post #30 of 259 Old 09-26-2018, 07:35 AM
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Would an X-rite i1 meter work?
There are many different meters that X-Rite has labeled "I1". Which specific one do you mean?

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