The cheap Test Pattern Generators accuracy thread - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 508 Old 11-16-2019, 12:07 PM
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Thanks for the info about the atv 4k problem.

I know the difference but I did only describe at which points both devices do framerate matching. The specific frequencies are additional details which are important if it generally works.

Do you have an example for 24hz on netflix?

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post #482 of 508 Old 11-16-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
You could do YCbCr manual calibrations for SDR with your OPPO and Ted's calibration disk. I would submit that your first priority should be to purchase a decent colorimeter such as the I1 Display Pro (I1D3), either Retail or OEM. Trust me, even with a good pattern generator, the I1 Pro and Pro 2 are S-L-O-W and don't read the dark end very well. With a colorimeter, you gain speed and the ability to read much better down low. You would use your Pro 2 to enhance the colorimeter's accuracy by profiling the I1D3 to it.
Thanks, but I would like to find something that Calman can drive so I can let it happen automatically.

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post #483 of 508 Old 11-16-2019, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post
Thanks, but I would like to find something that Calman can drive so I can let it happen automatically.
Then you are pretty much stuck with the more expensive spread, if you insist on YCbCr.

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post #484 of 508 Old 11-16-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Then you are pretty much stuck with the more expensive spread, if you insist on YCbCr.
Oh well. Maybe I will look into the disc since I have a Oppo 203.

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post #485 of 508 Old 11-17-2019, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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All 2018 LG OLEDs don’t perform very well with YCC patterns. That’s why I and all the guys I know use 16-255 RGB 8 bit patterns. Probably it’s the same with 2019 series. An RPi PGenerator is supported by all the most famous softwares and it’s bit perfect with RGB output. You can also use your laptop hdmi.

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post #486 of 508 Old 11-17-2019, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
All 2018 LG OLEDs don’t perform very well with YCC patterns. That’s why I and all the guys I know use 16-255 RGB 8 bit patterns. Probably it’s the same with 2019 series. An RPi PGenerator is supported by all the most famous softwares and it’s bit perfect with RGB output. You can also use your laptop hdmi.
I may try the laptop, but am always nervous about driver and Windows mucking things up. I may look into the RPi Generator. I do have an Oppo 203 so I read that Ted's Disc on the Oppo should be bit perfect for YCC.

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post #487 of 508 Old 11-17-2019, 07:59 AM
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laptop HDMI has proven to be very accurate.
See here (it is info for LightSpace, but is valid for any use really): https://www.lightillusion.com/direct_profiling.html
We use direct HDMI a lot, and have never had an issue.

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post #488 of 508 Old 11-17-2019, 01:15 PM
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Tested the firetv stick 4k with ted’s patterns and 1080p 8bit 24hz sdr output.

1-3 digital errors.

Ycbcr 4:4:4 8 bit was bit perfect.

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post #489 of 508 Old 11-17-2019, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Do you have an example for 24hz on netflix?
For recent Netflix originals it seems to be more "what isn't" than "what is"...

The following are all 24.0p.
If it's a new Netflix Original plan to either have glitches every 42s, or switch to 60p (59.94p) which minimizes the impact, or watch it on something else!

El Camino: A Breaking Bad Movie
Dolemite Is My Name
Bird Box
Triple Frontier
Murder Mystery
Dark
Shaft
Sand Castle
The Red Sea Diving Resort
Dark Tourist
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post #490 of 508 Old 11-24-2019, 03:39 AM
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As pattern generators are sending a static image for a considerable amount of time (in the order of seconds), why do they need to support 24 or 60 Hz if it's so expensive?
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post #491 of 508 Old 11-24-2019, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
As pattern generators are sending a static image for a considerable amount of time (in the order of seconds), why do they need to support 24 or 60 Hz if it's so expensive?
It's because the TV is doing a completely different thing, with different video pipelines, when it's displaying still image using its media player, to when it's playing video at 24Hz or 60Hz. They are chalk and cheese, and you want to calibrate the TV for when it's displaying video, not still images.
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post #492 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
PGenerator + HD Fury Device = HDR10 RGB-Video Patch Generation

For users who want to generate bit-perfect HDR10 patch generation for their HDR10 calibration, using PGenerator which is bit-perfect with RGB output combined with an HD Fury device (for metatadata/avi injection) can be used.

Using the HD Fury GUI, the user has to add to custom HDR10 Metadata (Tick always to send REC.2020 flag):

Custom Metadata (0.005 Black / 1000 nits Peak): 87:01:1a:74:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:32:00:e8:03:90:01

or

Custom Metadata (0.005 Black / 4000 nits Peak): 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

About AVI InfoFrame, usually users get the code for AVI from AVTopController panel of CalMAN but the problem with latest display models is that they require the complete header to able to provide the correct color output.

Since there no selection in CalMAN for AVTopController for the output resolution/frame rate the user will use (its not complete code with header also), for that reason you have to modify the AVI Infoframe according to the resolution you will use:

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:10:00:00:00 for 1080p60 RGB (VIC 16 is the decimal code for 1080p60)

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:20:00:00:00 for 1080p24 RGB (VIC 32 is the decimal code for 1080p24)

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:5D:00:00:00 for 2160p24 RGB (VIC 93 is the decimal code for 2160p24)

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:51:00:00:00 for 2160p60 RGB (VIC 97 is the decimal code for 2160p60)

If the user will use the 'short AVI code' without header which CalMAN generates, while the patterns will be HDR10, the gamut readings will be totally wrong with high under-saturation of colors.
Thanks for posting this Ted.

I managed to pick up a pre-owned Linker for what I think is cheap and wanted to not only make sure it works as it should but, also fancy having a go at calibrating for the HDR sources on my Panasonic. As such, I just wanted to confirm a few points.


TPG will be an RPi initially used with Lightspace.


1. What EDID do I use?
2. Where do I enter the custom metadata? I'm assuming: HDR / AVI > CUSTOM HDR INJECTION and tick 'Enable custom HDR'.
3. Where do I enter the AVI Infoframe code? I'm assuming: HDR / AVI > CUSTOM AVI and tick 'Enable custom AVI'.
4. HDR / AVI is also where I tick the 'Forced On' box for BT.2020 OUT?
5. Do I select 'SCALING MODE' 'UP'?
6. Do I still need to set Lightspace to output a limited RGB range?
7. I believe 1 through 5 will be the same when using the Linker with a AVFoundry VideoForge Classic and/ or CalMAN Home for Panasonic?


Thanks in advance,

Paul
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post #493 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngsyp View Post
1. What EDID do I use?
2. Where do I enter the custom metadata? I'm assuming: HDR / AVI > CUSTOM HDR INJECTION and tick 'Enable custom HDR'.
3. Where do I enter the AVI Infoframe code? I'm assuming: HDR / AVI > CUSTOM AVI and tick 'Enable custom AVI'.
4. HDR / AVI is also where I tick the 'Forced On' box for BT.2020 OUT?
5. Do I select 'SCALING MODE' 'UP'?
6. Do I still need to set Lightspace to output a limited RGB range?
7. I believe 1 through 5 will be the same when using the Linker with a AVFoundry VideoForge Classic and/ or CalMAN Home for Panasonic?
Hi Paul,

1: Not required to change EDID.
2,3,4: Yes
5: You don't want any scalling, as PGenerator will send 2160p24 directly.
6: Patchscale 16-235 @ LightSpace Options.
7: Yes, only RGB signal from any generation (not use YCbCr)
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post #494 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Paul,

1: Not required to change EDID. So just leave this on 'FIXED EDID?'
2,3,4: Yes
5: You don't want any scalling, as PGenerator will send 2160p24 directly. I take it that I need to set up PGenerator to do this? Like I did to get it to send 1080p50?
6: Patchscale 16-235 @ LightSpace Options.
7: Yes, only RGB signal from any generation (not use YCbCr)
Ted, thank you, much appreciated as ever.

Paul
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post #495 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngsyp View Post
Ted, thank you, much appreciated as ever.

Paul
AUTOMIX.

You set the resolution you like from generator, not from Fury and then you paste the correct per resolution custom AVI.

There no need to send 1080p50 for HDR10, send 1080p24 from PGenerator or VF.
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post #496 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
AUTOMIX.

You set the resolution you like from generator, not from Fury and then you paste the correct per resolution custom AVI.

There no need to send 1080p50 for HDR10, send 2160p24 from PGenerator or 1080p24 from VF.
Thanks again Ted.

Paul
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post #497 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 02:31 PM
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PGenerator Update has been released @ 28 November 2019

For update process information see: PGenerator Update
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post #498 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
AUTOMIX.

You set the resolution you like from generator, not from Fury and then you paste the correct per resolution custom AVI.

There no need to send 1080p50 for HDR10, send 2160p24 from PGenerator or 1080p24 from VF.
Thanks for all the tips and help. Ted. But, is the above a typo or does the PGenerator send 2160p24? I thought it only sent 1080p24.
Thanks
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post #499 of 508 Old 11-28-2019, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishwa Somayaji View Post
Thanks for all the tips and help. Ted. But, is the above a typo
Thanks, its 1080p24 max, the RP4 will have 2160p24 but its unknown when it will supported from PGenerator.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
PGenerator Update has been released @ 28 November 2019

For update process information see: PGenerator Update
Just finished the update. For a small box like the RPI, it was a long update! Took over 30 minutes. I was watching off and on. There were a lot of elements to the update. I would like to thank Riccardo Biasi for his excellent selfless work.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishwa Somayaji View Post
Just finished the update. For a small box like the RPI, it was a long update! Took over 30 minutes. I was watching off and on. There were a lot of elements to the update. I would like to thank Riccardo Biasi for his excellent selfless work.
I agree, he is a hero for sure!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
PGenerator + HD Fury Device = HDR10 RGB-Video Patch Generation

For users who want to generate bit-perfect HDR10 patch generation for their HDR10 calibration, using PGenerator which is bit-perfect with RGB output combined with an HD Fury device (for metatadata/avi injection) can be used.

Using the HD Fury GUI, the user has to add to custom HDR10 Metadata (Tick always to send REC.2020 flag):

Custom Metadata (0.005 Black / 1000 nits Peak): 87:01:1a:74:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:32:00:e8:03:90:01

or

Custom Metadata (0.005 Black / 4000 nits Peak): 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01

About AVI InfoFrame, usually users get the code for AVI from AVTopController panel of CalMAN but the problem with latest display models is that they require the complete header to able to provide the correct color output.

Since there no selection in CalMAN for AVTopController for the output resolution/frame rate the user will use (its not complete code with header also), for that reason you have to modify the AVI Infoframe according to the resolution you will use:

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:10:00:00:00 for 1080p60 RGB (VIC 16 is the decimal code for 1080p60)

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:20:00:00:00 for 1080p24 RGB (VIC 32 is the decimal code for 1080p24)

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:5D:00:00:00 for 2160p24 RGB (VIC 93 is the decimal code for 2160p24)

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:51:00:00:00 for 2160p60 RGB (VIC 97 is the decimal code for 2160p60)

If the user will use the 'short AVI code' without header which CalMAN generates, while the patterns will be HDR10, the gamut readings will be totally wrong with high under-saturation of colors.
Ted,
As always very helpful. I did my SDR calibration of my sony xbr940d a while ago but have not done HDR 4k (kept putting it off!). I use calman with a DVDO AVlab TPG and have an HDFury Linker too. Will these codes work for me and are there step by step instructions somewhere? I know calman has an hdr 10 workflow, I mean more of getting the patterns working with what step in the workflow.


Thanks,
BJBBJB
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post #503 of 508 Old 11-30-2019, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
Ted,
As always very helpful. I did my SDR calibration of my sony xbr940d a while ago but have not done HDR 4k (kept putting it off!). I use calman with a DVDO AVlab TPG and have an HDFury Linker too. Will these codes work for me and are there step by step instructions somewhere? I know calman has an hdr 10 workflow, I mean more of getting the patterns working with what step in the workflow.

Thanks,
BJBBJB
Hi, for DVDO AVLab TPG, set the output to 2160p24 8bit.

From CalMAN select RGB-Video, 10% Windows.

Using the HD Fury GUI, add that custom HDR10 Metadata (Tick always to send REC.2020 flag):

87:01:1a:74:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:32:00:e8:03:90:01 (P3 Primaries / 0.005 Black / 1000 nits Peak / 1000 MaxCLL / 400 MaxFALL)

About custom AVI InfoFrame:

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:5D:00:00:00 (2160p24 RGB-Video)

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post #504 of 508 Old 11-30-2019, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post
I may try the laptop, but am always nervous about driver and Windows mucking things up. I may look into the RPi Generator. I do have an Oppo 203 so I read that Ted's Disc on the Oppo should be bit perfect for YCC.
Hi, About OPPO 203/205 with YCbCr output from HDMI or from USB Input it has bit-perfect output using Ted's disk or Media Files for that testing.

Below its the digital level analysis results using ColorChecker Classic and Primary/Secondary Colors:


Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #505 of 508 Old 11-30-2019, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Tested the firetv stick 4k with ted’s patterns and 1080p 8bit 24hz sdr output.

1-3 digital errors.

Ycbcr 4:4:4 8 bit was bit perfect.
This confirms that for playback of SDR content is bit-perfect with YCbCr output.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #506 of 508 Old 11-30-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
Ted,
As always very helpful. I did my SDR calibration of my sony xbr940d a while ago but have not done HDR 4k (kept putting it off!). I use calman with a DVDO AVlab TPG and have an HDFury Linker too. Will these codes work for me and are there step by step instructions somewhere? I know calman has an hdr 10 workflow, I mean more of getting the patterns working with what step in the workflow.

Thanks,
BJBBJB
Hi, for DVDO AVLab TPG, set the output to 2160p24 8bit.

From CalMAN select RGB-Video, 10% Windows.

Using the HD Fury GUI, add that custom HDR10 Metadata (Tick always to send REC.2020 flag):

87:01:1a:74:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80 :3e:13:3d:42:40:e8:03:32:00:e8:03:90:01 (P3 Primaries / 0.005 Black / 1000 nits Peak / 1000 MaxCLL / 400 MaxFALL)

About custom AVI InfoFrame:

82:02:0D:AE:00:E8:64:5D:00:00:00 (2160p24 RGB-Video)
Ted,

Thanks! To help remind me how to enter all of this, I re-located this document. I assume other than the input strings themselves the rest applies. Hopefully this helps someone.

https://kb.portrait.com/help/hdfury-integral-4k60

There is a pdf somewhere too.

It says updated this year. Hopefully works with Linker vs. just original.
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post #507 of 508 Old 11-30-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
Ted,

Thanks! To help remind me how to enter all of this, I re-located this document. I assume other than the input strings themselves the rest applies. Hopefully this helps someone.

https://kb.portrait.com/help/hdfury-integral-4k60

There is a pdf somewhere too.

It says updated this year. Hopefully works with Linker vs. just original.
BJBBJB
All the custom metadata you will insert it using HD Fury GUI, not CalMAN.

With CalMAN it was not wolking the Integral 1 only with specific version of CalMAN until 2017.

Integration is broken after a software update.

HD Linker of any other newer HD Fury was never supported from CalMAN.

The AVTOP codes which CalMAN is generating for custom AVI are incomplete, they are not asking you for what resolution you will use and they don't contain the full header, so the colors will be a lot of under-saturated if you use CalMAN codes.

The codes I provided for custom AVI are full and accurate per each resolution
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #508 of 508 Old 11-30-2019, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJBBJB View Post
Ted,

Thanks! To help remind me how to enter all of this, I re-located this document. I assume other than the input strings themselves the rest applies. Hopefully this helps someone.

https://kb.portrait.com/help/hdfury-integral-4k60

There is a pdf somewhere too.

It says updated this year. Hopefully works with Linker vs. just original.
BJBBJB
All the custom metadata you will insert it using HD Fury GUI, not CalMAN.

With CalMAN it was not wolking the Integral 1 only with specific version of CalMAN until 2017.

Integration is broken after a software update.

HD Linker of any other newer HD Fury was never supported from CalMAN.

The AVTOP codes which CalMAN is generating for custom AVI are incomplete, they are not asking you for what resolution you will use and they don't contain the full header, so the colors will be a lot of under-saturated if you use CalMAN codes.

The codes I provided for custom AVI are full and accurate per each resolution [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Got it. Will install HDFury software and.enter strings there only. Calman to talk to TPG only.

Thanks,
BJBBJB
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