The cheap Test Pattern Generators accuracy thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 528 Old 12-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
I‘ve used MRMC Kodi to play Ted Patterns.
I‘ve tested in the past also vlc on the atv 4k and it was the same like kodi mrmc.
Thanks for that baller02. Although, I thought the ATV 4k was not good for any bit-perfect pattern generation. In any case, below is my plan of attack. Please let me know if my assumptions are incorrect.

Using a Fire TV Stick 4K and Calman Home for Sony:

1. Setup the FTV Stick to 1080 RGB output and use MobileForge to calibrate only grayscale with AutoCal. If I understand this thread correctly, I should be able to generate bit-perfect grayscale patterns using MF with the stick setup this way.

2. After completing step 1, configure the stick to now output 1080 YCbCr 4:4:4 and use VLC and Tedd's media files to manually calibrate grayscale to correct any RGB -> YCbCr conversion errors introduced by the TV.

3. Once step 2 is done, manually calibrate CMS using Tedd's files.

Thoughts?
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post #512 of 528 Old 12-08-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
I‘ve used MRMC Kodi to play Ted Patterns.
I‘ve tested in the past also vlc on the atv 4k and it was the same like kodi mrmc.
Thanks for that baller02. Although, I thought the ATV 4k was not good for any bit-perfect pattern generation. In any case, below is my plan of attack. Please let me know if my assumptions are incorrect.

Using a Fire TV Stick 4K and Calman Home for Sony:

1. Setup the FTV Stick to 1080 RGB output and use MobileForge to calibrate only grayscale with AutoCal. If I understand this thread correctly, I should be able to generate bit-perfect grayscale patterns using MF with the stick setup this way.

2. After completing step 1, configure the stick to now output 1080 YCbCr 4:4:4 and use VLC and Tedd's media files to manually calibrate grayscale to correct any RGB -> YCbCr conversion errors introduced by the TV.

3. Once step 2 is done, manually calibrate CMS using Tedd's files.

Thoughts?
Start at point 2 mobileforge is never bit perfect.

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post #513 of 528 Old 12-08-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Start at point 2 mobileforge is never bit perfect.
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When you will measure only Grayscale, with RGB Output, and after you will find which setting of CalMAN is correct (expand or not expand to PC levels), then it can be accurate the Grayscale.
I am confused. I thought Ted said MF on Fire Stick is bit-perfect but only for grayscale when configured with RGB output. Is this not correct anymore?
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post #514 of 528 Old 12-08-2019, 01:24 PM
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There you go: Model A1427. I added this info to the first post. Thanks Ivan.
Miki, what software did you use to Airplay Ted's patterns to the Apple TV gen 3? I just realized I had one of this lying around, so this could be my go-to TPG.
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post #515 of 528 Old 12-08-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Burrens View Post
I am confused. I thought Ted said MF on Fire Stick is bit-perfect but only for grayscale when configured with RGB output. Is this not correct anymore?
Stick with what Ted is telling you. He has more experience with this stuff than just about anyone else around here.
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post #516 of 528 Old 12-08-2019, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrens View Post
Miki, what software did you use to Airplay Ted's patterns to the Apple TV gen 3? I just realized I had one of this lying around, so this could be my go-to TPG.
If I remember correctly, I used Infuse from my iPhone 8 Plus.

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post #517 of 528 Old 12-09-2019, 12:53 PM
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If I remember correctly, I used Infuse from my iPhone 8 Plus.
Thanks. I’m planning on using Infuse 6 from my phone to airplay Ted’s files. If anybody has any tips on how to organize for Calman’s workflows, that would be great. So far I’ve put all the files on a Plex server running on my MacBook, but Plex doesn’t keep Ted’s organizational structure, so all the files are commingled. That’s slightly annoying.

I also bit the bullet and bought a RPi for PGenerator, to use with autocal.
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post #518 of 528 Old 12-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrens View Post
I am confused. I thought Ted said MF on Fire Stick is bit-perfect but only for grayscale when configured with RGB output. Is this not correct anymore?
Stick with what Ted is telling you. He has more experience with this stuff than just about anyone else around here.
Don’t trust people who own the device and measured the output with an analyzer like the dvdo. 😉

Waste your time with mobile forge...
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post #519 of 528 Old 12-17-2019, 01:13 PM
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Is there an easy way to see what PGenerator is outputting? For the life of me, I cant get my head around DeviceControl. It is definitely outputting 1080p/24 as that is what pops up when pressing the info button on the remote, but is it set to output RGB Full by default?
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post #520 of 528 Old 12-17-2019, 02:08 PM
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Yes, its set to output full RGB by default.

(Also, if you have to ask for that..
Do a 10 point greyscale reading. Look at the brightness graph. Switch the setting on your TV. Repeat. Look at the brightness graph. Chances are, you can even do it in one set of readings. )

In your calibration software use 16-235 colors, they will get auto converted afair (but it has been close too a year that I used it last - so please correct me if I'm wrong (small chance )).
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Last edited by harlekin; 12-17-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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post #521 of 528 Old 12-17-2019, 10:17 PM
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Yes, its set to output full RGB by default.

(Also, if you have to ask for that..
Do a 10 point greyscale reading. Look at the brightness graph. Switch the setting on your TV. Repeat. Look at the brightness graph. Chances are, you can even do it in one set of readings. )

In your calibration software use 16-235 colors, they will get auto converted afair (but it has been close too a year that I used it last - so please correct me if I'm wrong (small chance )).
Thanks. The only reason I ask is that I swear when I first started using it, when booting the Pi it would present a test pattern window whereas the latest version boots to a black screen, which threw me for a bit. Haven't had a chance to dig any deeper, but of course it would have been obvious just changing the TV settings as well. Doh.
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post #522 of 528 Old 12-17-2019, 11:58 PM
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Don't worry, just pointing out, that that is a fairly simple way to check it in general.
If I'm doing measurements, thats one of the first checks I do in the process to see if I've forgotten to set up the signal chain correctly. Its less rigorous than to go through checklists, so its easier to simply keep it as a step in there. Its also less tedious than going for video black bar patterns, if you know what you are looking for.


All of that is - its easy, if you know what color ranges to feed the signal generator in the first place - or if you own an OLED, which makes it fairly trivial to understand what black and 16 IRE grey is.

So for Pi PGenerator:
- Input signal range (of your calibration software) should be limited (it will do the signal conversion on its own)
- Output is always RGB Full by default
- So your TV has to be set to expect full signal range ("High black level" in LGs wording)
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Last edited by harlekin; 12-18-2019 at 02:01 AM.
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post #523 of 528 Old 12-18-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by harlekin View Post
Don't worry, just pointing out, that that is a fairly simple way to check it in general.
If I'm doing measurements, thats one of the first checks I do in the process to see if I've forgotten to set up the signal chain correctly. Its less rigorous than to go through checklists, so its easier to simply keep it as a step in there. Its also less tedious than going for video black bar patterns, if you know what you are looking for.


All of that is - its easy, if you know what color ranges to feed the signal generator in the first place - or if you own an OLED, which makes it fairly trivial to understand what black and 16 IRE grey is.

So for Pi PGenerator:
- Input signal range (of your calibration software) should be limited (it will do the signal conversion on its own)
- Output is always RGB Full by default
- So your TV has to be set to expect full signal range ("High black level" in LGs wording)
Thanks. The odd thing is I had no issues calibrating using the same set-up a few months back, and the only thing that has changed is I updated PGenerator. I'm wondering now if there is an issue with my meter.
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post #524 of 528 Old 12-18-2019, 10:15 AM
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I doubt it. (If you are using a colorimeter, those are usually pretty stable. (within reason)) Describe the issue.

Welcome to calibration, btw. (Potential error source everywhere. )
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post #525 of 528 Old 01-06-2020, 03:37 PM
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Is there a thread that covers how to get a PGenerator box up and running and it's details? Do you have to build your own? Can it produce an HDR10 signal?
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post #526 of 528 Old 01-07-2020, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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HERE and for HDR10 HERE

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post #527 of 528 Old 01-07-2020, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Thank you!

Two more questions:
1) what's the cheapest HD Fury device that can inject metadata? There's a $80 Dr. HDMI device, but can that inject HDR metadata?
2) I'm just getting started with display calibration for my home TV sets as an enthusiast. Probably going to start with an HCFR + X-Rite i1 Display Pro + Tim's Ted's Disc Media Files setup. Will AppleTV 4K's signal processing errors you've identified truly render a calibration with that setup ineffective? Or is the point of bit-perfect only for professionals and/or calibrating the colorimeter?

Last edited by Rschmitt; 01-07-2020 at 09:52 AM.
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post #528 of 528 Old 01-07-2020, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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You are welcome.

1) HD Linker
2) Who's Tim? . IMHO, accuracy has no levels. You have it or you don't, ATV4K is not bit accurate or at least that is what DVDO Analyzer told me, still if someone with better/more capable hardware could test it, I'd be glad. RPi PGenerator is the best cheap solution so far.

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