The cheap Test Pattern Generators accuracy thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 573 Old 03-02-2020, 09:29 AM
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I'm very computer literate, but I need a little help...

I downloaded and installed the PGenerator image and got it running on a Pi3. I also installed Device Control and got it working. I also successfully used the PuTTY interface to update the image (even though I had just downloaded it, there were updates).

My problem is that the only way I have been able to connect to the PGenerator is by using it's WiFi Access Point mode. I cannot get it to connect to my network, either by WiFi (which I understand has to be enabled somehow) or by wired Ethernet. I cannot find any instructions to tell me how to make the necessary configuration changes, don't know if this is due to a lot of the documentation being in Italian?

(Using a regular Debian boot disk in the Pi 3, it connects to the router just as it should, so it's not the hardware.)

Not sure if this is the right forum to ask this question, but any help pointing me to more PGenerator / Device Control resources and documentation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

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post #542 of 573 Old 03-02-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
I'm very computer literate, but I need a little help...

I downloaded and installed the PGenerator image and got it running on a Pi3. I also installed Device Control and got it working. I also successfully used the PuTTY interface to update the image (even though I had just downloaded it, there were updates).

My problem is that the only way I have been able to connect to the PGenerator is by using it's WiFi Access Point mode. I cannot get it to connect to my network, either by WiFi (which I understand has to be enabled somehow) or by wired Ethernet. I cannot find any instructions to tell me how to make the necessary configuration changes, don't know if this is due to a lot of the documentation being in Italian?

(Using a regular Debian boot disk in the Pi 3, it connects to the router just as it should, so it's not the hardware.)

Not sure if this is the right forum to ask this question, but any help pointing me to more PGenerator / Device Control resources and documentation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #543 of 573 Old 03-04-2020, 05:53 AM
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Thanks for your quick reply, but no amount of searching forums has told me what I need to know, i.e. how to get the PGenerator out of WiFi Access Point mode into WiFi Client mode. I've been able to connect via ethernet, bluetooth, and wifi (with the PGenerator as an AP), but I can't find how to get it to change modes to connect to a WiFi network as a client. I've gotten so far as to get my SSID and Password loaded, but I can't get it to connect, presumably because it thinks it's still in AP mode. Any suggestions? Thanks!

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post #544 of 573 Old 03-04-2020, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
Thanks for your quick reply, but no amount of searching forums has told me what I need to know, i.e. how to get the PGenerator out of WiFi Access Point mode into WiFi Client mode. I've been able to connect via ethernet, bluetooth, and wifi (with the PGenerator as an AP), but I can't find how to get it to change modes to connect to a WiFi network as a client. I've gotten so far as to get my SSID and Password loaded, but I can't get it to connect, presumably because it thinks it's still in AP mode. Any suggestions? Thanks!
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post #545 of 573 Old 03-04-2020, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
Thanks for your quick reply, but no amount of searching forums has told me what I need to know, i.e. how to get the PGenerator out of WiFi Access Point mode into WiFi Client mode. I've been able to connect via ethernet, bluetooth, and wifi (with the PGenerator as an AP), but I can't find how to get it to change modes to connect to a WiFi network as a client. I've gotten so far as to get my SSID and Password loaded, but I can't get it to connect, presumably because it thinks it's still in AP mode. Any suggestions? Thanks!
I saw that Riccardo - the author of PGenerator - has been helping you over there. #Make73 's thread there on the issues he was having might also be useful to you.

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post #546 of 573 Old 03-04-2020, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
Thanks for your quick reply, but no amount of searching forums has told me what I need to know, i.e. how to get the PGenerator out of WiFi Access Point mode into WiFi Client mode. I've been able to connect via ethernet, bluetooth, and wifi (with the PGenerator as an AP), but I can't find how to get it to change modes to connect to a WiFi network as a client. I've gotten so far as to get my SSID and Password loaded, but I can't get it to connect, presumably because it thinks it's still in AP mode. Any suggestions? Thanks!
If your SSID and Password are loaded, is your router assigning an ip address for the RPi and does it show as connected within Device Control (see first screenshot). Even though I had successfully managed to enter my SSID and Password I could never connect withing software until I modified the device in Device Control. Once I did, it connects automatically every time, even though I have since modified the device back to the default Bluetooth ip address in Device Control.

See the second screenshot attached for the options to modify. Where you see the default BT ip address in the third screenshot, change that to the DHCP assigned ip address from your router (you can also click the opposing arrows and will search an assigned ip address) and click the "Write" icon (the pencil). See if you can then connect to the RPi via Device Control, and if you can you should be able to connect via WiFi within software too. It should also then connect to Wifi automatically every time.

For what it is worth, Bluetooth is the recommended way to connect to RPi anyway if you can and is my own preferred choice. Although it is an extra step to connect to BT via the Personal Area Network in Windows, it is the most stable connection according to R. Biasi.
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post #547 of 573 Old 03-04-2020, 02:04 PM
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PGenerator / wireless connection

Thanks, all! I finally got this working, just by poking around.

Problem was that on the Device Control page where the "Available Wireless SSID" is shown, I had to select my desired network SSID from a drop-down box, even though the box already contained the correct SSID! Then the "Connect" function worked! What a head-scratcher that was!

I have now used both wifi methods (AP and Client) and wired, still need to spend some time trying to get the Bluetooth path working. I've found Bluetooth pretty flaky in the past, but I can see the advantage...although as long as I'm in my own home, wifi is probably my method of choice.

My main TV is the LG C9 OLED with iTPG, so I don't need the PGenerator for that, but should come in handy for my other TVs. Have used Mobile Forge via AppleTV in the past, but had a couple of RPis lying around doing nothing!
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post #548 of 573 Old 03-04-2020, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
Thanks, all! I finally got this working, just by poking around.

Problem was that on the Device Control page where the "Available Wireless SSID" is shown, I had to select my desired network SSID from a drop-down box, even though the box already contained the correct SSID! Then the "Connect" function worked! What a head-scratcher that was!

I have now used both wifi methods (AP and Client) and wired, still need to spend some time trying to get the Bluetooth path working. I've found Bluetooth pretty flaky in the past, but I can see the advantage...although as long as I'm in my own home, wifi is probably my method of choice.

My main TV is the LG C9 OLED with iTPG, so I don't need the PGenerator for that, but should come in handy for my other TVs. Have used Mobile Forge via AppleTV in the past, but had a couple of RPis lying around doing nothing!
Good to see you have figured it out.

With regards to connection methods, for just standard calibration then WiFi will most likely be perfectly fine. It is when you come to calibrating with larger cube based profiles that Bluetooth can have it's benefits. All it takes is a moment of interference on your home network to create a sync read error, and you won't even know it happened unless you look to measurement data in LightSpace and see spikey results all over the place which shouldn't be there. It has happened to me twice despite having a pretty decent home network setup, so I always use BT now. Riccardo has himself also told me that BT is the most stable connection in this use case. This does not affect manual calibration or smaller cube based profiles though.

Anyway, now you have your WiFi Client method worked out, you have a choice

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post #549 of 573 Old 03-14-2020, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Here we go, again. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

02.28.2020 UPDATE

it'll be a quick update! I did some testing on an Apple TV FullHD (4th Generation) and an Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K:

- Apple TV Full HD is bit accurate only with RGB output. YCC is not accurate with YCC content or if used as TPG.

- Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K has YCC output bit accurate but can't be used as TPG because I tried with LS Connect and I didn't get bit accurate results.

So, we can use Apple TV Full HD as TPG only with RGB output, while Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K can't be used as an accurate TPG at all.

First post has been updated too.
First off I’m not doubting your findings, I’m just curious if that is the case why CalMAN made MobileForge which uses the Apple TV in YCbCr.
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post #550 of 573 Old 03-15-2020, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I think I didn’t get your message. Sorry.

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post #551 of 573 Old 03-15-2020, 05:31 PM
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First off I’m not doubting your findings, I’m just curious if that is the case why CalMAN made MobileForge which uses the Apple TV in YCbCr.
I don't have an Apple TV of any flavor, but you should be able to select RGB within CalMAN in the Source tab...

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post #552 of 573 Old 03-25-2020, 02:28 PM
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Question form an noob,
When using RPI with calman home samsung for the Q9FN is this bit accurate?
Yeah have been reading the first page and several post but im confused.

65QE9FN
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post #553 of 573 Old 03-25-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by saint964 View Post
Question form an noob,
When using RPI with calman home samsung for the Q9FN is this bit accurate?
Yeah have been reading the first page and several post but im confused.
The RPi is currently only bit-accurate in RGB Full.

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post #554 of 573 Old 03-25-2020, 04:11 PM
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The RPi is currently only bit-accurate in RGB Full.
This is correct but not the entire story. To explain something that's confused me in the past in case others reading had the same misunderstanding - this means you set the Raspberry Pi to "RGB Full" mode using the DeviceControl PC software/web gui. (I think "Full" is the default, but I could be wrong.). That covers only one end of things.

What's important is that with that done, you then should set Calman's levels to video/limited (16-235 or 16-255), and NOT "full" or the 0-255 options in Calman. Just because the Raspberry Pi is set to full does not mean you should also do the same in Calman. Only ever do this if you intend to calibrate say for PC mode RGB with 0-255 levels.

The 16-235 patterns are requested by Calman during the calibration and the Raspberry Pi outputs them correctly, within its Full (0-255) container and it's all correct.
Check two things:
(1) Do not use the "expand to PC levels" option in Calman.
(2) Check the TV is in "RGB limited" (Black level=LOW) mode, this must be done manually the TV might "guess" the black level wrongly.

HTH
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post #555 of 573 Old 03-25-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This is correct but not the entire story. To explain something that's confused me in the past in case others reading had the same misunderstanding - this means you set the Raspberry Pi to "RGB Full" mode using the DeviceControl PC software/web gui. (I think "Full" is the default, but I could be wrong.). That covers only one end of things.

What's important is that with that done, you then should set Calman's levels to video/limited (16-235 or 16-255), and NOT "full" or the 0-255 options in Calman. Just because the Raspberry Pi is set to full does not mean you should also do the same in Calman. Only ever do this if you intend to calibrate say for PC mode RGB with 0-255 levels.

The 16-235 patterns are requested by Calman during the calibration and the Raspberry Pi outputs them correctly, within its Full (0-255) container and it's all correct.
Check two things:
(1) Do not use the "expand to PC levels" option in Calman.
(2) Check the TV is in "RGB limited" (Black level=LOW) mode, this must be done manually the TV might "guess" the black level wrongly.

HTH
Yep, Full is the default.
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Last edited by Rolls-Royce; 03-25-2020 at 04:22 PM.
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post #556 of 573 Old 03-26-2020, 02:20 PM
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oke thnx all for the conformation, made an calibration without expand to PC levels.
the harsh thing i keep getting an out of scale when calibrating cms red is of like 4.1.

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post #557 of 573 Old 03-26-2020, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by saint964 View Post
Question form an noob,
When using RPI with calman home samsung for the Q9FN is this bit accurate?
Yeah have been reading the first page and several post but im confused.
It's bit accurate in RGB but the Samsung conversion of RGB to YCbCr etc is pants and introduces errors so your calibration when viewing Bluray will not be accurate.

I have given up on using PGenerator (sadly) and sticking to Ted's (SDR) and Ryan's (HDR) disks.

PS i posted the RGB vs YCbCr comparisions for Q9FN somewhere here a while back.
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post #558 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 12:32 AM
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ah oke I will look into it, got Teds Disk allso, so will make an new calibration not with calman then but with HFCR.

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post #559 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post
It's bit accurate in RGB but the Samsung conversion of RGB to YCbCr etc is pants and introduces errors so your calibration when viewing Bluray will not be accurate.

I have given up on using PGenerator (sadly) and sticking to Ted's (SDR) and Ryan's (HDR) disks.

PS i posted the RGB vs YCbCr comparisions for Q9FN somewhere here a while back.

As a Owner of a Q70R Samsung, I shouldn't be using a Bit Accurate Source, instead a Disc would be more reliable from a Bluray Player? I watch a lot of content from my Zidoo, I'm not sure if it's outputting in RGB, have to check!
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post #560 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 11:41 AM
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As a Owner of a Q70R Samsung, I shouldn't be using a Bit Accurate Source, instead a Disc would be more reliable from a Bluray Player? I watch a lot of content from my Zidoo, I'm not sure if it's outputting in RGB, have to check!
He didn't say you shouldn't be using a bit-accurate source. Not at all. What he said was that the internal conversion done by the Samsung from RGB to YCbCr is screwed up. The reason you might consider using a good test disc from a Blu-Ray player is that most of them properly output YCbCr...
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post #561 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 12:52 PM
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Did anybody ever test PS4 for Bit Accuracy regarding Bluray Discs? That's the only Disc Source I have access to right now.
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post #562 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I've sold my DVDO AvLab TPG to @liberator72 , so I won't be able to test anything anymore.

I hope that Leon and @baller02 (Manuel) will take my legacy and become the new "cheap things" testers!

It has been a pleasure assisting all of you!

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post #563 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
I've sold my DVDO AvLab TPG to @liberator72 , so I won't be able to test anything anymore.

I hope that Leon and @baller02 (Manuel) will take my legacy and become the new "cheap things" testers!

It has been a pleasure assisting all of you!
You only did it because you're a lazy Italian and just couldn't be bothered anymore

I for one would like to formally and personally thank you for everything you have done in this thread. It has been of great benefit to everyone in this community and if I can expand on what you have done in the future then I will be happy to. That is if the DVDO ever gets here. Apparently it is coming via snail mail!!
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post #564 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 01:42 PM
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You only did it because you're a lazy Italian and just couldn't be bothered anymore

I for one would like to formally and personally thank you for everything you have done in this thread. It has been of great benefit to everyone in this community and if I can expand on what you have done in the future then I will be happy to. That is if the DVDO ever gets here. Apparently it is coming via snail mail!!
Deliveries are slow here in the US as well. What used to take 2 or 3 days now takes 4, 5 or more...

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post #565 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Deliveries are slow here in the US as well. What used to take 2 or 3 days now takes 4, 5 or more...
I guess we should be grateful that deliveries are still happening at all. And that extra gratitude should go out to those that are willing to brave the current conditions to make those deliveries. Worrying times for all right now, so wishing everyone out there all the best.
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post #566 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I guess we should be grateful that deliveries are still happening at all. And that extra gratitude should go out to those that are willing to brave the current conditions to make those deliveries. Worrying times for all right now, so wishing everyone out there all the best.
Indeed. There are a lot of people at grocers, delivery services, and the like, who never expected to be in "the front lines", but now are. We owe them a debt of gratitude! And @Anger.miki and our other friends on the Continent, please stay safe.
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post #567 of 573 Old 03-27-2020, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Royce, I’m doing all I can to stay safe and keep my family safe. Please guys, stay at home. At least, now we have the chance to calibrate and to experiment!

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post #568 of 573 Old 03-28-2020, 03:53 PM
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Thank you! Hope the best for all of you in Italy!


Regarding Samsung. Zidoo offeer output in RGB and YCbCr4:4:4. The latter should be the best option for a Samsung TV?
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post #569 of 573 Old Yesterday, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
He didn't say you shouldn't be using a bit-accurate source. Not at all. What he said was that the internal conversion done by the Samsung from RGB to YCbCr is screwed up. The reason you might consider using a good test disc from a Blu-Ray player is that most of them properly output YCbCr...
Correct. Have to use a bit accurate source regardless of whether its RGB or YCbCr. Ted's patterns are bit accurate for YCbCr sources like BluRay players. I use them through my LG BluRay and from my Odroid N2 running Kodi and my Oppo based M9702 streamer using Ted's digital files. Same goes for Ryan's patterns for HDR. All sources are bit perfect in YCbCr,
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post #570 of 573 Old Yesterday, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post
Thank you! Hope the best for all of you in Italy!


Regarding Samsung. Zidoo offeer output in RGB and YCbCr4:4:4. The latter should be the best option for a Samsung TV?
Correct.
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