The cheap Test Pattern Generators accuracy thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 243 Old 03-13-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post
Hi,


the PGenerator output is full RGB by default (unless You have changed it with device control) and You obviously want to calibrate for video, so You have to set patch scale in LS to 16-235.


According to the first page of this thread FireStick output seems to be RGB limited, so You have to set patch scale to 0-255 for this device.
Thanks for the info, it's clear to me now. I wasn't sure if something else was happening since I moved over from Calman and it wants to include superwhite.
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post #212 of 243 Old 03-24-2019, 02:44 AM
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@Anger.miki thanks for conducting these invaluable tests, they are truly a massive help. Since there are 2 versions of the 3rd generation ATV, what was the model that you tested A1427 or A1469 - Rev A?
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post #213 of 243 Old 03-24-2019, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I’ll let you know as soon as l’ll be back home Tuesday evening (GMT+2).
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post #214 of 243 Old 03-24-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clifak View Post
Thanks for the info, it's clear to me now. I wasn't sure if something else was happening since I moved over from Calman and it wants to include superwhite.
PGenerator (at device settings) need to have RGB-Full all the time, no other setting is correct. RGB-Limited will compress the levels and the RGB triplet generation will be incorrect.

You just use RGB-Full (from device all the time, its the default setting) and you manage the levels from the software you will use.

For example in LightSpace (you have 3 options) you can set patch scale 16-235 (if you need RGB-Video) or 16-255 (if you need RGB-Video Extended) or 0-255 (for PC Levels).

With CalMAN It has 2 options, 16-235 or 0-255.

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post #215 of 243 Old 03-24-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egan View Post
@ConnecTEDDD Does it make much of a difference in calibration accuracy if your patterns are outputted in RGB or YCbCr? I've been using a PS4 and there's no RGB or YCbCr output setting (currently) and I don't know what it's outputting through HDMI. Calibration results with your patterns have been very good though regardless, I'd just like to know. Also, should my TV be set to HDMI limited range during calibration? Thanks Ted.
Hi, I missed that question. Since you will playback from PS4 the patterns and there no settings for colorspace output, you are measuring the whole video chain, you are counting any colorspace conversion to the patches which will be displayed to your screen.

RGB-Video or YCbCr, both are 16-235, so TV will have to except limited range.

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post #216 of 243 Old 03-24-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faiz View Post
Hi,

I have the firestick 4K with mobileforge and Calman , and am trying to calibrate my projector for dci , however I was informed that mobileforge can only do SDR and not dci P3
Just wanted to confirm if this is correct

Tdhanks
It can do RGB-Video SDR patch generation (but not bit-perfect).

The target colorspace is a software setting, when you will want to display 100% Saturation with 100% Stimulus level, software will send 235.16.16 RGB Triplet. It doesn't matter if you aim for P3 or REC.2020 or REC.709, the RGB triplet will be exact the same.

The RGB-Triplet is different only when you want to measure P3 inside a REC.2020 colorspace or REC.709 inside REC.2020 etc.

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post #217 of 243 Old 03-26-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
10/12 Bit BT.2020 HDR YCbCr testing results.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...mentid=2535806
I just ran same tests using Six-G and Accupell DGA-6000. It looks like Six-G is 10 bit accurate (i didn't test 12 bit but i trust your findings). The problem is that it's true ONLY FOR YCbCR 4:4:4!

When set to 4:2:2 it inaccurate like before.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...mentid=2544492
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post #218 of 243 Old 03-26-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoper View Post
I just ran same tests using Six-G and Accupell DGA-6000. It looks like Six-G is 10 bit accurate (i didn't test 12 bit but i trust your findings). The problem is that it's true ONLY FOR YCbCR 4:4:4!

When set to 4:2:2 it inaccurate like before.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...mentid=2544492
We only tested 10bit and 12bit YCBCR BT.2020 HDR, not SDR. I would send this data to Murideo.

I will verify the VFP for SDR 10 and 12 Bit BT.709.
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post #219 of 243 Old 03-26-2019, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan2011 View Post
@Anger.miki thanks for conducting these invaluable tests, they are truly a massive help. Since there are 2 versions of the 3rd generation ATV, what was the model that you tested A1427 or A1469 - Rev A?
There you go: Model A1427. I added this info to the first post. Thanks Ivan.
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post #220 of 243 Old 03-26-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We only tested 10bit and 12bit YCBCR BT.2020 HDR, not SDR. I would send this data to Murideo.

I will verify the VFP for SDR 10 and 12 Bit BT.709.
So you tested YCbCr 4:4:4 2160p24 HDR10 8/10/12bit?

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post #221 of 243 Old 03-26-2019, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We only tested 10bit and 12bit YCBCR BT.2020 HDR, not SDR. I would send this data to Murideo.

I will verify the VFP for SDR 10 and 12 Bit BT.709.
I sent the data to Murideo just in case. Matt's got it now.
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post #222 of 243 Old 03-26-2019, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoper View Post
I just ran same tests using Six-G and Accupell DGA-6000. It looks like Six-G is 10 bit accurate (i didn't test 12 bit but i trust your findings). The problem is that it's true ONLY FOR YCbCR 4:4:4!



When set to 4:2:2 it inaccurate like before.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...mentid=2544492
mkoper,


Thanks so much for the testing. I'm confused with the labelling. When requested HDR BT2020 the Murideo seems to be showing bit matching in YCbCr 4:4:4 but in 1080p SDR?

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post #223 of 243 Old 03-27-2019, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
mkoper,

Thanks so much for the testing. I'm confused with the labelling. When requested HDR BT2020 the Murideo seems to be showing bit matching in YCbCr 4:4:4 but in 1080p SDR?
No problem with that, resolution/framerate are not related with RGB triplet or YCbCr triplet generation.

The BT.2020 radio box from Murideo settings of CalMAN will make the difference in YCbCr, between YCbCr REC.709 and YCbCr REC.2020

The only difference between SDR REC.2020 and HDR10 REC.2020 is the metadata only, when you ask to generate the same triplets.
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post #224 of 243 Old 04-04-2019, 08:17 AM
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i spent time building the Pi kit.
creating the generator microcard
installing control device
connected
found the control csv in the cloud.

in my initial learning curve it seemed like some kind of web service?

curious things i found, didn;t find.


whether i send YCbCr or RGB the tv goes into Progressive scan?
this is curious because Ycbcr from a laptop always went into interlace?

2 choices in Pi for Ycbcr where 444 full and 444 limited?
another curious thing. i ASSUME that meant 0-255 and 16-235?
I didn't know Ycbcr had 0-255? a search of the internet had 1 story saying it
can be 0-255 but also went on to say UHD mandated PROGRESSIVE scan?

i tested the output with a fury integral and it did report the;
refresh
colorspace
resolution
Progressive scan
and BT-709 signal.

looking at the control memories from the cloud
they look like a type of HTML csv files which i guess they are?

shouldn't i be able to set scan type?
and ycbcr 422 420?

anywhere i can find proper syntax to add the modes to the memories?

also on a tangent/
seems after some reading here when calibrating HDR RGB Full is recommended?


thanks for all the info

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post #225 of 243 Old 04-04-2019, 01:25 PM
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looking at the EDID info in the Raspberry "memory" info it does not
list interlaced on the extensive modes available on the tv .

so it will always be in progressive scan mode. 1080P60
it is curious why PiGen doesn't see edid modes i know are there.
i don't know if this contributes the bit accuracy issues.
I do know i have seen some tvs change measurements from a simple
frequency change like 1080i30


was a time when some tvs treated rgb inputs different than ycbcr
because of the conversions from input colorspace to the final rgb the panel
displays.

since my settop box is outputting 1080i60 ycbcr 444
i am anal about feeding my tv ycbcr when i calibrate.

having used rgb limited on a cal at 2.2-2.18 gamma and another one with ycbcr at 2.3-2.34 gamma
on 2 different tvs i set up side by side
they APPEAR to have the same gamma?
could be other things i know.












.

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post #226 of 243 Old 04-05-2019, 06:45 AM
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I thought I read somewhere that the new ATV 4k updates fixes the color errors?

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post #230 of 243 Old 04-23-2019, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I’ll check as soon as possible. Thanks for the info.

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post #231 of 243 Old 04-23-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We only tested 10bit and 12bit YCBCR BT.2020 HDR, not SDR. I would send this data to Murideo.

I will verify the VFP for SDR 10 and 12 Bit BT.709.
Any updates Tyler?

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post #233 of 243 Old 04-23-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
I’ll check as soon as possible. Thanks for the info.
Thank you sir. It might have been in one of the betas.
Have you checked the 4k fire stick lately too?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I thought I read somewhere that the new ATV 4k updates fixes the color errors?
The green push with ycbcr or the processing with floating output?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I thought I read somewhere that the new ATV 4k updates fixes the color errors?
The green push with ycbcr or the processing with floating output?
I didn't know of any green push. The chart in this thread doesn't show that. 🏼

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post #236 of 243 Old 04-24-2019, 02:36 PM
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You see it when you calibrate with a bit perfect pattern generator and measure afterwards the atv 4k with ycbcr and bit perfect patterns ( ted‘s patterns for example). RGB high is more accurate but atv 4k is switching to ycbcr for 50hz and hdr for example (also when you set it to rgb).

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post #237 of 243 Old 04-24-2019, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
You see it when you calibrate with a bit perfect pattern generator and measure afterwards the atv 4k with ycbcr and bit perfect patterns ( ted‘s patterns for example). RGB high is more accurate but atv 4k is switching to ycbcr for 50hz and hdr for example (also when you set it to rgb).
Going by the output tests in the OP it doesn't show the ATV4K being off by much.

Are you testing it using files or using the mobile forge app?

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Tested with ted patterns and dvdo av lab tpg.

For the atv 4k where do you see ycbcr results in this thread measured with LS connect or ted patterns?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
The green push with ycbcr or the processing with floating output?
Green push, 12.3 beta 2.

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post #240 of 243 Old 04-24-2019, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Going by the output tests in the OP it doesn't show the ATV4K being off by much.
Those are two different topics, I spotted and discussed the YCbCr bug in the ATV 4K thread. Here I focused the attention on ATV 4K as a patter generator and “discovered” the floating triplet numbers which won’t find any fix because it’s directly related to how the ATV video chip/hdmi works, in my opinion. But I really hope I’m wrong.

TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | SintoAmp: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, Portrait Displays CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2018 R3, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: x-rite i1 Pro 2 - i1 Display Pro OEM B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG
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