2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 465 Old 04-05-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
So just to clarify, 101 points is the maximum number of 8-bit RGB triplets that can be used to profile for 1D LUT, meaning a maximum of one point every ~2.3-2.5% or 2 to 3 video levels, right? Even if you wanted to spend the time to profile every 219 or 255 RGB triplet, that is not possible, correct?

Does the CVS customization allow you to decide specifically which RGB triplets you'd like to use (up to 101 max)? More specifically, can you use CVS customization to profile every RGB triplet from 0-5% (video levels 16 to 27) and the assign the remaining 90 video levels at lower granularity throughout the remainder of the range?
As I said above, the maximum number of points is 101. You can use whatever 8-bit values or spacing you like. Even if it was possible to measure 219 points, the results will be not better from less points, since you have to count that the OLED's are not stable and your data will have a lot of variable data collection. So it will not help at all, even if it was possible, it should be useless.

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What precision are LGs 1D LUT values stored in, 12 bit? I assume Lightspace is using higher precision to calculate 1D LUT values from the profiled data and then rounding down to the bit-depth LGs 1D LUT requires, correct?
10bit (1024) entry 1D LUT with 15bit precision values and 33-Point Cube with 12bit precision values.

LightSpace calculate the correction with 16bit precision.

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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
- what assumption is made about zero point (16,16,16) and what does LS do to generate LUT values below the lowest profile readpoint?

The LUT''s of LG don't contain data below 16, internal LUT is 0-1023 with the video black '64' mapped to '0' of the LUT.

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-are the 1D LUT values which have been generated readable by the user and can they be changed manually prior to download?
If you open the DeviceControl 1D LUT file via notepad (for example), then you can change the values manually.

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post #302 of 465 Old 04-05-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
As I said above, the maximum number of points is 101. You can use whatever 8-bit values or spacing you like. Even if it was possible to measure 219 points, the results will be not better from less points, since you have to count that the OLED's are not stable and your data will have a lot of variable data collection. So it will not help at all, even if it was possible, it should be useless.
Understood. Thanks.


Quote:
10bit (1024) entry 1D LUT with 15bit precision values and 33-Point Cube with 12bit precision values.

LightSpace calculate the correction with 16bit precision.
Perfect - thanks.


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The LUT''s of LG don't contain data below 16, internal LUT is 0-1023 with the video black '64' mapped to '0' of the LUT.
Apologies, my question was not clear.

Understand that LUT entry 0 contains video 'black' entry of 64.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that profiling 5% was the lowest-IRE profile point which should correspond closely to LUT entry 51 or 52 (assuming LUT entry 1023 corresponds to 100% IRE).

My question is not about how the 5% LUT entry at 51 (or 52) is computed but how the LUT entries below 51 (or 52) are computed.

Is interpolation between the 5% reading and the idealized black entry of '64' at LUT entry 0 used or are the profile points read at 5% and 10% (or whatever the next-higher profile point is) extrapolated down below LUT entry 51 (or 52) and used to calculate the entries from 1 to 50 (or 1 to 51)?

I'm trying to understand what approach is used to calculate/estimate the 1D LUT entries below the LUT entry which is just below the lowest-IRE profile point (5% in this example).


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If you open the DeviceControl 1D LUT file via notepad (for example), then you can change the values manually.
Fantastic - that provides all the flexibility one could ask for.
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post #303 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Understand that LUT entry 0 contains video 'black' entry of 64.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that profiling 5% was the lowest-IRE profile point which should correspond closely to LUT entry 51 or 52 (assuming LUT entry 1023 corresponds to 100% IRE).

My question is not about how the 5% LUT entry at 51 (or 52) is computed but how the LUT entries below 51 (or 52) are computed.

Is interpolation between the 5% reading and the idealized black entry of '64' at LUT entry 0 used or are the profile points read at 5% and 10% (or whatever the next-higher profile point is) extrapolated down below LUT entry 51 (or 52) and used to calculate the entries from 1 to 50 (or 1 to 51)?

I'm trying to understand what approach is used to calculate/estimate the 1D LUT entries below the LUT entry which is just below the lowest-IRE profile point (5% in this example).
First of all, IRE (as stupidity LG is continuing to name the controls the last 15+ years....amazing!)......is coming from analog world (CRT years), but LG TV's they are still use IRE...they say 10-IRE , 20-IRE etc.....so wrong and ridiculous.......IRE (voltage of the signal) is term for analog signal world...the levels are different...7.5IRE is the reference black in analog term. They have to say 10% Gray etc.



The correction calculated from profiling data, based to the target colorspace/gamma target, nothing else...
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post #304 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 02:55 AM
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That's a very nice graphic, Tedd. Should it say "analogue" on the left hand side?

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post #305 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
That's a very nice graphic, Tedd. Should it say "analogue" on the left hand side?
It has 4 columns of information about levels.

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post #306 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 03:53 AM
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It has 4 columns of information about levels.
Aha! Thankyou! Now I see. Sometimes my brain needs a nudge.
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post #307 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 06:19 AM
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That is a 0-235 videoscale, isn’t it? Which is strange, at least for me.

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post #308 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 06:59 AM
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I noticed that the Peak Brightness setting is not available in all PQ modes. It’s locked in game mode. I was hoping to experiment with the setting. Any idea if it will be unlocked in the future.


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post #309 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
That is a 0-235 videoscale, isn’t it? Which is strange, at least for me.
It's 16-235.

Shows headroom to 255 as well as footroom to 0 but 0% to 100% spans 16-255...

Ted, I never realized that 0% was 7.5IRE (and not 0IRE) to thanks for this explanation - I'll stop making that mistake (or even referring to IRE at all ).
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post #310 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
It's 16-235.

Shows headroom to 255 as well as footroom to 0 but 0% to 100% spans 16-255...
? I think it shows 0% to 100% spanning 16-235, no? and 235-255 will be 100% to 109%.

Quote:
Ted, I never realized that 0% was 7.5IRE (and not 0IRE) to thanks for this explanation - I'll stop making that mistake (or even referring to IRE at all ).
Agreed, me too! I can understand Tedd's frustration with LG for using that term, and now I share it.

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post #311 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
It's 16-235.

Shows headroom to 255 as well as footroom to 0 but 0% to 100% spans 16-255...

Ted, I never realized that 0% was 7.5IRE (and not 0IRE) to thanks for this explanation - I'll stop making that mistake (or even referring to IRE at all ).
If 16 is 7,5% and 235 is 100% then there’s something I do not understand.

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post #312 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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If 16 is 7,5% and 235 is 100% then there’s something I do not understand.
It's not 7.5%, it's 7.5 IRE. All explained in the graphic!
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post #313 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 01:27 PM
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? I think it shows 0% to 100% spanning 16-235, no? and 235-255 will be 100% to 109%.
Precisely (as well as 0-16 spanning -7% to 0% .


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Agreed, me too! I can understand Tedd's frustration with LG for using that term, and now I share it.
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post #314 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 01:30 PM
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Help
Anybody having trouble accessing the Spectra Cal / Calman website? I keep getting certificate error and site not safe warnings and can't get past them. Using Microsoft Edge, Explorer, Chrome ect.

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post #315 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 02:17 PM
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They missed to update the ssl certificate, which is expired or does use the wrong name.

They are pointing to the portrait site now and the ssl certificate does not contain the spectral calman domains.
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post #316 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
If 16 is 7,5% and 235 is 100% then there’s something I do not understand.
Miki, it isn't that 16 is 7.5%, it's 7.5 IRE, the voltage "floor" for analog video black. Note that as you go up the brightness scale, the difference diminishes until it's equal at 100 IRE/100%.
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post #317 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 04:01 PM
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Thanks mate! I misread it. Now it’s all clear.
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post #318 of 465 Old 04-06-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
They missed to update the ssl certificate, which is expired or does use the wrong name.

They are pointing to the portrait site now and the ssl certificate does not contain the spectral calman domains.


We are transitioning everything to our new website at http://www.Portrait.com

Everything should be moved over by the end of the weekend.
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post #319 of 465 Old 04-07-2019, 02:53 AM
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Portrait should consider to use https as default and redirect to it if someone opens an port 80 http link.

Most browsers show sites without https as unsecure.
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post #320 of 465 Old 04-15-2019, 01:10 PM
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Question! Is Calman home still available? I don't see it on the website anymore...
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post #321 of 465 Old 04-15-2019, 01:57 PM
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Question! Is Calman home still available? I don't see it on the website anymore...
There are new, less-capable versions coming. But the old Home Enthusiast is no more...

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post #322 of 465 Old 04-15-2019, 02:01 PM
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Ah, got it. I've been trying to do HDR calibration with HCFR and basically losing my mind. Part of which could be because my current set (a TCL P607) doesn't really support HDR calibration well.


Back to the topic at hand, a large part of the reason why I'm considering upgrading to the C9 is because of the potential for a comprehensive, cost effective (meaning less expensive than the display) at-home calibration solution.
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post #323 of 465 Old 04-15-2019, 02:40 PM
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Ah, got it. I've been trying to do HDR calibration with HCFR and basically losing my mind. Part of which could be because my current set (a TCL P607) doesn't really support HDR calibration well.


Back to the topic at hand, a large part of the reason why I'm considering upgrading to the C9 is because of the potential for a comprehensive, cost effective (meaning less expensive than the display) at-home calibration solution.
At this point in time, the vast majority of displays cannot be fully calibrated for HDR, as they can be for SDR. For one thing, gamma as understood in SDR does not exist in HDR. In addition, the luminance expected at each point is fixed - 100% white is always specified to be 10K nits - and TVs are just beginning to approach 2K nits. Nor can most displays yet attain 100% coverage of the BT2020 gamut specified for HDR. Unless you have one of the few that allow you to calibrate the base display parameters that the HDR mode and tone mapping are overlaid on, about all you can realistically do is gray scale and color/tint.
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post #324 of 465 Old 04-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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At this point in time, the vast majority of displays cannot be fully calibrated for HDR, as they can be for SDR. For one thing, gamma as understood in SDR does not exist in HDR. In addition, the luminance expected at each point is fixed - 100% white is always specified to be 10K nits - and TVs are just beginning to approach 2K nits. Nor can most displays yet attain 100% coverage of the BT2020 gamut specified for HDR. Unless you have one of the few that allow you to calibrate the base display parameters that the HDR mode and tone mapping are overlaid on, about all you can realistically do is gray scale and color/tint.
2019 LGs do support calibrating the base panel response for HDR/DV. Also includes end user customizable HDR10 tone mapping.

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post #325 of 465 Old 04-16-2019, 01:44 PM
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2019 LGs do support calibrating the base panel response for HDR/DV. Also includes end user customizable HDR10 tone mapping.


Is the latest CalMAN available to support all the new 2019 LG HDR features?

I have about 60 hours on my C9. When I hit 150-200 I would like t get a pro calibration but I’ll wait if I have to for the full HDR features.


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post #326 of 465 Old 04-17-2019, 09:25 AM
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Is the latest CalMAN available to support all the new 2019 LG HDR features?

I have about 60 hours on my C9. When I hit 150-200 I would like t get a pro calibration but I’ll wait if I have to for the full HDR features.


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Coming very soon.
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post #327 of 465 Old 04-19-2019, 12:29 PM
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Coming very soon.

I think I've read there are going to be multiple, feature graduated versions of the previously announced "Home" edition. Is this true and if so, will identifying need be easy? I'm asking because like the previous poster, I got an LG C9 Wednesday and I'm holding off professional calibration at this time.


Thanks in advance,


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I own an LG 65" C9. I'm thrilled with it.
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post #328 of 465 Old 04-26-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aflscott View Post
I think I've read there are going to be multiple, feature graduated versions of the previously announced "Home" edition. Is this true and if so, will identifying need be easy? I'm asking because like the previous poster, I got an LG C9 Wednesday and I'm holding off professional calibration at this time.


Thanks in advance,


Scott

I got my LG C9 professionally calibrated. I'm still interested in the software, but the need is not anywhere as urgent, now.

I own an LG 65" C9. I'm thrilled with it.
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post #329 of 465 Old 04-26-2019, 04:53 PM
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Mine is coming on monday
but i want to calibrate it since i have 1idisplay pro
but i have no idea what im doing
the hcpr or whatever software isn't telling me and there aren't any real tutorial for latest OLED TV or videos for that matter that use the software very annoying
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LG 65 C9 OLED Display
Oppo UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray Player (49-XXXX MODIFIED )
Home Theater 7.1.4 with yamaha RX3070
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post #330 of 465 Old 05-02-2019, 06:12 PM
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Sorry if this has been asked before but has the Alpha 9 Gen II processor fixed the posterization issues when using the CMS or auto calibration?
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