2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 482 Old 05-14-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinion View Post
Hi guys, quick question. I'm planning to buy a C9 this year and see it has this built in cal if you have an external colorimeter. Would a Colormunki Display puck be suitable for doing this? My understanding is it's the same sensor and filters as the more expensive model just doesn't have the faster processing in it. I already own the Display and use it on my PC with DisplayCal so it would be nice to not have to buy new hardware for this.
Just to clarify, it does not have built-in calibration. It has a built-in pattern generator that can be controlled by calibration software running externally to the TV (or in theory, running in an App in the TV).
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post #362 of 482 Old 05-14-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Just to clarify, it does not have built-in calibration. It has a built-in pattern generator that can be controlled by calibration software running externally to the TV (or in theory, running in an App in the TV).

sorry if asked/answered:
what do I need to display built-in pattern generator on a C9?

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post #363 of 482 Old 05-14-2019, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
sorry if asked/answered:
what do I need to display built-in pattern generator on a C9?
Best I can tell because I haven't tested it, you access the internal test pattern generator from Calman. When you select the 2019 LG, the LG Autocal workflow will populated with the extras and one part if the workflow describes how to connect and use it. There are no user controls to access it.
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post #364 of 482 Old 05-14-2019, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
sorry if asked/answered:
what do I need to display built-in pattern generator on a C9?


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post #365 of 482 Old 05-18-2019, 02:10 PM
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Do I need a specific version of the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter or can I just buy one from ebay and use it with CalMAN Home for LG from the CalMAN website?

Since I live in Europe, buying the X-Rite OEM I1 Display from the US would mean customs and high shipping costs I'd like to avoid.
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post #366 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
Do I need a specific version of the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter or can I just buy one from ebay and use it with CalMAN Home for LG from the CalMAN website?

Since I live in Europe, buying the X-Rite OEM I1 Display from the US would mean customs and high shipping costs I'd like to avoid.
There are some distributors for SpectraCal over here. I got my kit from https://www.digitalgarage.tv/ and they were really good.

To answer the question, the SpectraCal branded version (https://app.spectracal.com/Documents...ctraCal-C6.pdf ) contains profiles for different displays. If you bought a standard version, you won't get these. Meaning the calibration won't be as accurate unless you also have a spectrophotometer (hideously expensive) to create an accurate profile yourself for your TV.

Even then, having the profiles is only an "average" of profiles which doesn't take into account panel variances. But it's a lot better than just using nothing. And, good luck working out which profile to use for which display! This is knowledge which seems to be very closely guarded and secret. I did appeal for a more descriptive list and better guidance on the SpectraCal forum, but that request was about as welcome as a turd in a hot-tub. And the forum has now been shut down
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post #367 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
Do I need a specific version of the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter or can I just buy one from ebay and use it with CalMAN Home for LG from the CalMAN website?

Since I live in Europe, buying the X-Rite OEM I1 Display from the US would mean customs and high shipping costs I'd like to avoid.
You can get the i1display pro oem from Ted, he sells it from europe.
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post #368 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
There are some distributors for SpectraCal over here. I got my kit from https://www.digitalgarage.tv/ and they were really good.

To answer the question, the SpectraCal branded version (https://app.spectracal.com/Documents...ctraCal-C6.pdf ) contains profiles for different displays. If you bought a standard version, you won't get these. Meaning the calibration won't be as accurate unless you also have a spectrophotometer (hideously expensive) to create an accurate profile yourself for your TV.

Even then, having the profiles is only an "average" of profiles which doesn't take into account panel variances. But it's a lot better than just using nothing. And, good luck working out which profile to use for which display! This is knowledge which seems to be very closely guarded and secret. I did appeal for a more descriptive list and better guidance on the SpectraCal forum, but that request was about as welcome as a turd in a hot-tub. And the forum has now been shut down
And here I thought it would be easy. So I cannot just buy and download CalMAN Home for LG from their website, I have to get their version of the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter since only this one will have the appropriate profiles to get the most accurate results? That's unfortunate.
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post #369 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
You can get the i1display pro oem from Ted, he sells it from europe.

Thanks - will this have the profiles to accurately calibrate with CalMAN Home for LG?
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post #370 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
And here I thought it would be easy. So I cannot just buy and download CalMAN Home for LG from their website, I have to get their version of the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter since only this one will have the appropriate profiles to get the most accurate results? That's unfortunate.
Yes, but not quite as you have phrased it.

Their profiles are for average results. Eg, the average LG OLED C9, the average LG OLED C8, etc. These will give you "very good results".

If you get a spectrophotometer you can create a profile for Siran77's exact LG OLED C9, or any other TV you have to calibrate. Only this way, will you get "the most accurate" results.

ps. It's not easy unfortunately. Just as you thought you'd got your spectro to get the best results for your exact panel, someone will rock up and point out that you have bought a "cheap" meter in the C6/X-Rite, , and that it's not as accurate as a professional meter, and you've been having fun playing at calibration but you don't actually have "the most accurate" at all. NB: they will never point this out before your spectro purchase, which you thought would be worth it; it may seem mendacious but it's not, the people here are generally great and I've learned a lot over a long time. But be ready for it to always happen just after your purchases. So just as in life, nothing worthwhile is easy
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post #371 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Yes, but not quite as you have phrased it.

Their profiles are for average results. Eg, the average LG OLED C9, the average LG OLED C8, etc. These will give you "very good results".

If you get a spectrophotometer you can create a profile for Siran77's exact LG OLED C9, or any other TV you have to calibrate. Only this way, will you get "the most accurate" results.

ps. It's not easy unfortunately. Just as you thought you'd got your spectro to get the best results for your panel, someone will rock up and point out that you have bought a "cheap" meter in the C6/X-Rite, , and that it's not as accurate as a professional meter, and you've been having fun playing at calibration but you don't actually have "the most accurate" at all. NB: they will not tell you this before your purchase, it may seem mendacious but it's not. But be ready for it to always happen just after your purchases. So just as in life, nothing worthwhile is easy
So if I understand you correctly it's either

1. a generic X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter without profile for least accurate results
2. the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter from SpectraCal/CalMAN with the standard LG 2019 OLED profile and have high shipping costs and customs
3. a hideously expensive spectrophotometer to get the most accurate results for my specific display.

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post #372 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
So if I understand you correctly it's either

1. a generic X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter without profile for least accurate results
2. the X-Rite OEM I1 Display colorimeter from SpectraCal/CalMAN with the standard LG 2019 OLED profile and have high shipping costs and customs
3. a hideously expensive spectrophotometer to get the most accurate results for my specific display.
Yes, also if you do (3) you don't need (2). A spectro is used to create the profile, and then you don't need it again, you use the profiled meter to do the actual calibration. Some people hire spectros out, so it might be possible for you to do that (no idea where from). See also https://app.spectracal.com/Documents...0Profiling.pdf

(2) isn't the OEM model, they call them C6 and C6HDR2000 etc to differentiate them from the OEM model. And again, you may be able to save on costs and customs if you can find a distributor. I contact SpectraCal at the time to find a distributor and they put me in touch with digital garage.

Cost wise it's
(1) cheapest
(2) more, but good enough for most
(3) + (1) more
(3) + (2) even more, and you could have saved money by buying an OEM meter, but it's not normally where beginners start.

I've got excellent results with (2) as my calibration hobby. It can be addictive and I can feel myself wanting a spectro though
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post #373 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 04:45 AM
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With the oem you can’t use the Profiles from Calman, they are only for the C6.

The cheapest thing is to buy the i1 display pro oem and rent a spectro or let it profile from other calibrators with spectros.
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post #374 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
There are some distributors for SpectraCal over here. I got my kit from https://www.digitalgarage.tv/ and they were really good.



To answer the question, the SpectraCal branded version (https://app.spectracal.com/Documents...ctraCal-C6.pdf ) contains profiles for different displays. If you bought a standard version, you won't get these. Meaning the calibration won't be as accurate unless you also have a spectrophotometer (hideously expensive) to create an accurate profile yourself for your TV.



Even then, having the profiles is only an "average" of profiles which doesn't take into account panel variances. But it's a lot better than just using nothing. And, good luck working out which profile to use for which display! This is knowledge which seems to be very closely guarded and secret. I did appeal for a more descriptive list and better guidance on the SpectraCal forum, but that request was about as welcome as a turd in a hot-tub. And the forum has now been shut down


Nothing is a closely guarded secret. It’s just that display manufactures never tell you what type of backlight technology they are using unless they can use it for marketing. Also each manufacturer has a ridiculous amount of models that they produce each year and some of the same models can have different display technologies in different sizes and sales regions.

Also the C6 profiles have nothing to do with an average of anything. They combine the individual meter spectral response of the filters in each individual meter with a spectrum of a known display technology, which has very very little variation from panel to panel of the same model.

Also, just because there is a panel to panel variability in things like uniformity and factory color calibration, does not mean there it is significant variation in the SPD of each panel.
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post #375 of 482 Old 05-19-2019, 04:23 PM
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Appreciate the corrections, as ever . I think my wording was clumsy. I certainly misunderstood the profiles thing, it seems.

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post #376 of 482 Old 05-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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I try calman home for lg today.
I cant find the pattern for set up the brightness and contrast when calman ask to click on it.
Please help
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post #377 of 482 Old 05-20-2019, 02:54 PM
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Some pattern generator solutions won't/can't produce the brightness and contrast patterns CalMAN calls for.

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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Some inexpensive pattern generator solutions won't/can't produce the brightness and contrast patterns CalMAN calls for.
I thought that was included with the Lg C9 .
I also thought that brightness and contrast should be left 50 and 85.
Which type of calivration should i use matrix lut, lighting lut.
Please help 🙂
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post #379 of 482 Old 05-20-2019, 03:54 PM
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You'd have to ask LG or @WiFi-Spy about what patterns the built-in generator supports.

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post #380 of 482 Old 05-22-2019, 01:29 PM
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I've been getting hours on my panel before calibrating, but I'm wondering in advance if for calibrating HDR10 if Dynamic Tone Mapping needs to be left Off or On for calibrating and taking advantage of specific HDR10 Tone Curve meta data.

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post #381 of 482 Old 05-22-2019, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been getting hours on my panel before calibrating, but I'm wondering in advance if for calibrating HDR10 if Dynamic Tone Mapping needs to be left Off or On for calibrating and taking advantage of specific HDR10 Tone Curve meta data.
Off even though I've tried it both ways with very little or no difference when calibrating.
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Off even though I've tried it both ways with very little or no difference when calibrating.
Thanks for the response.

I assume you leave it off after calibration then too, as in it's not necessary to be enabled for the TV to read/react to the different meta data?

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Thanks for the response.

I assume you leave it off after calibration then too, as in it's not necessary to be enabled for the TV to read/react to the different meta data?
Correct.
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post #384 of 482 Old 05-25-2019, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some SDR scans for a LG 65E9 I did yesterday using Calman 2019 and LG Autocal
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What the thinking manual vs auto calibration ? I just watched Vincent’s excellent review of the C9. Vincent stated there’s posterization from the 3D Lut calculations. He did like the custom tone curves better than dynamic tone mapping.


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post #386 of 482 Old 05-25-2019, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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What the thinking manual vs auto calibration ? I just watched Vincent’s excellent review of the C9. Vincent stated there’s posterization from the 3D Lut calculations. He did like the custom tone curves better than dynamic tone mapping.


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Here is another way to look at this ->https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post58097202
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post #387 of 482 Old 05-27-2019, 04:58 AM
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I have a couple of questions about calibration workflow ( I think I know the answers). Once calibration via internal test patterns/CalMan and the 1D and 3D LUTs are uploaded to the TV, say for HDR cinema, can one just jump back in the workflow and calibrate for HDR ISF dark without running another grayscale? Or, should each picture mode be started from scratch/step 1 in the workflow? Also, once HDR calibration is complete, is there anyway to use that same 1D and 3D LUT to calibrate Dolby Vision, even though the workflow is different? Thanks!
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post #388 of 482 Old 05-27-2019, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Barefoot Joe View Post
I have a couple of questions about calibration workflow ( I think I know the answers). Once calibration via internal test patterns/CalMan and the 1D and 3D LUTs are uploaded to the TV, say for HDR cinema, can one just jump back in the workflow and calibrate for HDR ISF dark without running another grayscale? Or, should each picture mode be started from scratch/step 1 in the workflow? Also, once HDR calibration is complete, is there anyway to use that same 1D and 3D LUT to calibrate Dolby Vision, even though the workflow is different? Thanks!
This would be really nice right? Once you calibrated HDR in the panel's native mode you would thing you could use the same data for the DV calibration. But no you can't. You need to start from step1 for each picture mode you want to calibrate. You can stay connected to the display while switching through the workflows.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
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Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G
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post #389 of 482 Old 05-27-2019, 06:10 AM
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This is a bit of a noob question but is it possible to calibrate the C9 with DTM on so it tracks the EOTF closely.
The general consensus is while it can show more highlight detail it can brighten or darken a scene too much. Is Sony’s implementation that much better on the A9F? I’d like to hear what the Pro calibrators (John & D Nice) thoughts please.


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post #390 of 482 Old 05-27-2019, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
This would be really nice right? Once you calibrated HDR in the panel's native mode you would thing you could use the same data for the DV calibration. But no you can't. You need to start from step1 for each picture mode you want to calibrate. You can stay connected to the display while switching through the workflows.
That's what I thought (and did). So, SDR/HDR/DV all need to be started from step 1 of the workflow. How about, for example, in the HDR workflow, jumping back in the workflow to calibrate Cinema, isf dark, isf light, etc. without starting from scratch? Or, is there any reason to do that once HDR is calibrated for one of the picture modes?
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