2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by keyoctave View Post
Will Calman fix the issue so one can use an HD Fury Integral again, allowing the use of other pattern generators for HDR calibration?
You can still use an Integral by copying and pasting the metadata strings CalMAN produces into the Integral GUI. This really isn't as big a deal as it sounds, as once the strings were sent to the Integral (when CalMAN could control it), you had to disconnect from it in order to connect to the actual pattern generator. Not much of a difference, honestly.
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post #452 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 10:54 AM
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I just upgraded my older Videoforge HDMI pattern generator to a Videoforge Pro. I already have my TV calibrated with the internal test patterns and the C6 CalMan profile for the TV and am really happy with the results. I plan to create a profile myself with my i1 Pro 2 and C6. Does it matter if the TV is in SDR, HDR, or DV when creating the profile (this is my first time profiling a 4K TV with HDR and DV)? Will I have to create 3 profiles, one for each mode? Beyond that, should I still use the internal test patterns to calibrate the TV, then just use the Videoforge Pro to verify the results? Or, just use the Videoforge as the pattern generator to both calibrate and verify? Or, does it make any difference..even theoretically?
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post #453 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Barefoot Joe View Post
I just upgraded my older Videoforge HDMI pattern generator to a Videoforge Pro. I already have my TV calibrated with the internal test patterns and the C6 CalMan profile for the TV and am really happy with the results. I plan to create a profile myself with my i1 Pro 2 and C6. Does it matter if the TV is in SDR, HDR, or DV when creating the profile (this is my first time profiling a 4K TV with HDR and DV)? Will I have to create 3 profiles, one for each mode? Beyond that, should I still use the internal test patterns to calibrate the TV, then just use the Videoforge Pro to verify the results? Or, just use the Videoforge as the pattern generator to both calibrate and verify? Or, does it make any difference..even theoretically?
One profile should do. I'd make it with the display in its native or widest gamut. You should measure W,R,G, and B with both the CalMAN C-6 profile and the one you make yourself, before re-calibrating. Write down the x,y and Luminance for each color then repeat with the second profile. If you are within .001 for x and y and 4% (IIRC) for luminance, you won't see much of a difference by changing profiles.
You can do the whole shebang - calibration and verification - with the VFP.
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post #454 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
You can still use an Integral by copying and pasting the metadata strings CalMAN produces into the Integral GUI. This really isn't as big a deal as it sounds, as once the strings were sent to the Integral (when CalMAN could control it), you had to disconnect from it in order to connect to the actual pattern generator. Not much of a difference, honestly.
Well that’s good news! Thank you Royce.
I’ll so some searching and find out how to do this.

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post #455 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
One profile should do. I'd make it with the display in its native or widest gamut. You should measure W,R,G, and B with both the CalMAN C-6 profile and the one you make yourself, before re-calibrating. Write down the x,y and Luminance for each color then repeat with the second profile. If you are within .001 for x and y and 4% (IIRC) for luminance, you won't see much of a difference by changing profiles.
You can do the whole shebang - calibration and verification - with the VFP.
Thank you very much! This is the first time I've looked at my new toy (VFP), so excuse my questions if they sound naive. When you say "make it with the the display in its native or widest gamut", does that mean to set the VFP to 3840x2160 60Hz in the 4K menu? HDR set to OFF? Or, are you speaking of the color gamut? Should that be set to YCbCR 4:4:4 12, or some other value? Thanks again!
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post #456 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We will be publishing the tutorial videos for CalMAN Home for LG in the next two weeks. This includes separate video tutorials for SDR, HDR, and Dolby Vision.

Tyler
Question for WiFi Spy, please...

I was told by PD that my CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2019 License (or whatever its called these days) would allow me to do the LG C9 Autocal, but some of the posts in this forum seem to be saying that I might still need the new CalMAN Home for LG to do the autocal...which is correct??

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post #457 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
Question for WiFi Spy, please...

I was told by PD that my CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2019 License (or whatever its called these days) would allow me to do the LG C9 Autocal, but some of the posts in this forum seem to be saying that I might still need the new CalMAN Home for LG to do the autocal...which is correct??
CalMAN 2019 Enthusiast has the same LG AutoCal workflows as the professional versions of CalMAN. CalMAN Home for LG has a more simplified workflow.

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post #458 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
CalMAN 2019 Enthusiast has the same LG AutoCal workflows as the professional versions of CalMAN. CalMAN Home for LG has a more simplified workflow.
Great! Thanks!

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post #459 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by keyoctave View Post
Well that’s good news! Thank you Royce.
I’ll so some searching and find out how to do this.
Easy-peasy. Open up the Integral GUI (easier if you do that first), then CalMAN. For Source in CalMAN, select "AVTopController". When it pops up the connection dialog box, click "Connect" even if you don't have that software. CalMAN will open a source settings sheet. Select HDR or DV, and copy and paste the strings shown in the HDR Infoframe and AVI Infoframe fields to the correct fields in the Integral GUI.Send them to the Integral. Now disconnect from that source in CalMAN and select your pattern generator. Proceed as directed by CalMAN.

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post #460 of 1115 Old 06-10-2019, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Barefoot Joe View Post
Thank you very much! This is the first time I've looked at my new toy (VFP), so excuse my questions if they sound naive. When you say "make it with the the display in its native or widest gamut", does that mean to set the VFP to 3840x2160 60Hz in the 4K menu? HDR set to OFF? Or, are you speaking of the color gamut? Should that be set to YCbCR 4:4:4 12, or some other value? Thanks again!
I'm speaking of your TV's color gamut.
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post #461 of 1115 Old 06-11-2019, 07:23 AM
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Hi guys, would you just check for me in the hdr worflow that the color gamma target is correct on bt2020sdr? Shouldnt it be on bt2020hdr?
The gamma formula i assume is correct mapping the st2084 on the 2.2 of the c9 if i understand correctly?
Is this red error in the colorspace is normal?
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post #462 of 1115 Old 06-11-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi guys, would you just check for me in the hdr worflow that the color gamma target is correct on bt2020sdr? Shouldnt it be on bt2020hdr?
The gamma formula i assume is correct mapping the st2084 on the 2.2 of the c9 if i understand correctly?
Is this red error in the colorspace is normal?


All that is expected and normal.

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post #463 of 1115 Old 06-14-2019, 02:33 AM
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Hello can this version of the program: SpectraCal CalMAN Ultimate for Business v5 6 1

Can calibrate my LG OLED E9 65"?
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post #464 of 1115 Old 06-14-2019, 09:09 AM
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Hello can this version of the program: SpectraCal CalMAN Ultimate for Business v5 6 1

Can calibrate my LG OLED E9 65"?
That's quite an old version. For a manual calibration, yes. For an autocal, no. IIRC, the autocal routine for the 2019s didn't appear until CalMAN 2019 (5.10.xx). CalMAN 2018 was 5.9.xx.

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post #465 of 1115 Old 06-14-2019, 12:55 PM
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200 hours minimum hours before calibration.
Remember when we used to run changing color slides 24/7 to get plasma's broke-in for calibration.

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post #466 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 12:08 PM
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Any recommendation on how to set the set the custom tone mapping roll off point for 1000, 4000, 10000 nits?

I am really surprise to find very little information about this !
Vincent teoh mentionned that he prefer the custom tone mapping to the active tone mapping.

Looking at the picture the custom tone mapping is clipping detail in the clould but is perhaps more realistic, the active tone mapping make shadows in dark area over bright.

I really would like your opinions on this?
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post #467 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 12:38 PM
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I have a question on the Portrait Displays C6 meter.

I understand it has the profiles for the C9 OLED. What size panel do they use to make the profile?

My concern comes from the 77". I read a post somewhere that last years 77C8" actually used a C7 panel. I'm wondering if this years 77C9 is using a C8 panel?
If that's the case wouldn't the C6 meter have the wrong profile for a 77C9?

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post #468 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Any recommendation on how to set the set the custom tone mapping roll off point for 1000, 4000, 10000 nits?

I am really surprise to find very little information about this !
Vincent teoh mentionned that he prefer the custom tone mapping to the active tone mapping.

Looking at the picture the custom tone mapping is clipping detail in the clould but is perhaps more realistic, the active tone mapping make shadows in dark area over bright.

I really would like your opinions on this?
I don't have any recommendations, just comments. I left my tone mapping during calibration to the defaults. To my eye, the pictures that you uploaded demonstrate more detail and appear more real with dynamic contrast ON. I see the same on my TV and leave that setting on. I don't like the fact that it defeats custom tone mapping. I thought, and was hoping, that the custom tone maps would be better to my eye. Maybe as people get more experience and post some recommendations, that will be the case.

Not to cloud the issue/setting, but can anyone confirm that the custom tone maps set during calibration are ignored with dynamic tone mapping turned ON? To see any benefit of custom tone mapping, dynamic tone mapping setting would have to be OFF? It is my understanding that is the case.
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post #469 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Any recommendation on how to set the set the custom tone mapping roll off point for 1000, 4000, 10000 nits?

I am really surprise to find very little information about this !
Vincent teoh mentionned that he prefer the custom tone mapping to the active tone mapping.

Looking at the picture the custom tone mapping is clipping detail in the clould but is perhaps more realistic, the active tone mapping make shadows in dark area over bright.

I really would like your opinions on this?
I don't have any recommendations, just comments. I left my tone mapping during calibration to the defaults. To my eye, the pictures that you uploaded demonstrate more detail and appear more real with dynamic contrast ON. I see the same on my TV and leave that setting on. I don't like the fact that it defeats custom tone mapping. I thought, and was hoping, that the custom tone maps would be better to my eye. Maybe as people get more experience and post some recommendations, that will be the case.

Not to cloud the issue/setting, but can anyone confirm that the custom tone maps set during calibration are ignored with dynamic tone mapping turned ON? To see any benefit of custom tone mapping, dynamic tone mapping setting would have to be OFF? It is my understanding that is the case.
I completely agree with you, it would be great to have some recommendation from some pro.

Custom tone mapping is activated by having dynamic tone mapping off, i think Tyler has confirmed this already.
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post #470 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 02:47 PM
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When you calculate the peak luminance on the 10% windows for hdr do you guys take more than 1 reading?
I notice that if take 1 reading i usually get 720 nits but taking a few more reading i can get up to 750_760 nits.

If you change the peak luminance on the custom tone mapping menu from 700 to for example 730, would that also reflect on the dynamic tone mapping?
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post #471 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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When you calculate the peak luminance on the 10% windows for hdr do you guys take more than 1 reading?
I notice that if take 1 reading i usually get 720 nits but taking a few more reading i can get up to 750_760 nits.

If you change the peak luminance on the custom tone mapping menu from 700 to for example 730, would that also reflect on the dynamic tone mapping?
Your HDR peak luminance is always going to fluctuate because the panel heats up. Best to take a couple of readings a minute apart but these variances are small and you won't be able to detect them.
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post #472 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
When you calculate the peak luminance on the 10% windows for hdr do you guys take more than 1 reading?
I notice that if take 1 reading i usually get 720 nits but taking a few more reading i can get up to 750_760 nits.

If you change the peak luminance on the custom tone mapping menu from 700 to for example 730, would that also reflect on the dynamic tone mapping?
Your HDR peak luminance is always going to fluctuate because the panel heats up. Best to take a couple of readings a minute apart but these variances are small and you won't be able to detect them.
Thanks Jrref, the Hdr on the c9 is amazing this year and i truly enjoy learning how to calibrate my tv, shame we can't verify the calibration for hdr and dolby vision without spending thousands.

What is your take on the custom mapping Vs Dynamic tone mapping?
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post #473 of 1115 Old 06-17-2019, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Thanks Jrref, the Hdr on the c9 is amazing this year and i truly enjoy learning how to calibrate my tv, shame we can't verify the calibration for hdr and dolby vision without spending thousands.

What is your take on the custom mapping Vs Dynamic tone mapping?
I verify HDR all the time and it's accurate. DV it looks the same to my eye when sitting next to a calibrated LG so I have to assume it's accurate.

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post #474 of 1115 Old 06-18-2019, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Thanks Jrref, the Hdr on the c9 is amazing this year and i truly enjoy learning how to calibrate my tv, shame we can't verify the calibration for hdr and dolby vision without spending thousands.

What is your take on the custom mapping Vs Dynamic tone mapping?
I verify HDR all the time and it's accurate. DV it looks the same to my eye when sitting next to a calibrated LG so I have to assume it's accurate.
Could you guys tell me if i have profile my i1display pro retail properly with my reference i1pro2 and if my calibration will be accurate?
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post #475 of 1115 Old 06-18-2019, 08:57 AM
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I verify HDR all the time and it's accurate. DV it looks the same to my eye when sitting next to a calibrated LG so I have to assume it's accurate.
Interesting. When you say "DV it looks the same to my eye" are you referring to Dolby Vision or the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting? If it's the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting you are referring to, would you please do an A/B comparison by turning that setting On/Off on a calibrated TV via the TV menu. I would be interested to hear your thoughts about any differences (or not). Thanks!
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post #476 of 1115 Old 06-18-2019, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. When you say "DV it looks the same to my eye" are you referring to Dolby Vision or the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting? If it's the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting you are referring to, would you please do an A/B comparison by turning that setting On/Off on a calibrated TV via the TV menu. I would be interested to hear your thoughts about any differences (or not). Thanks!
I was talking about comparing Sony DV Dark PM to LG DV Dark PM which I know is correct. As far as HDR Dynamic Tone mapping ON or OFF, I prefer it OFF when the set is calibrated Using the new CalMAN HDR calibration process. Read the first couple of posts in this thread.

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post #477 of 1115 Old 06-18-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jrref, the Hdr on the c9 is amazing this year and i truly enjoy learning how to calibrate my tv, shame we can't verify the calibration for hdr and dolby vision without spending thousands.

What is your take on the custom mapping Vs Dynamic tone mapping?
So a couple of things.

It's very rare if you do a correct SDR calibration that the Sony HDR will be incorrect since the offsets are calculated for both HDR and DV from the SDR calibration. I agree I don't understand why calibration equipment is so expensive. Maybe it's because it's not mass produced? But it is what it is. At least if you have a C9 you can use CalMAN to generate the test patterns but you can't verify HDR and DV but for an enthusiast that's probably fine. If you are a pro or an expert then you need to spend the money.

When the sets first come out and these calibration threads are created, myself, other pro's and enthusiasts usually discuss the calibration and post results and talk about the user controls, etc.. Unfortunately not everyone spends the time to scan the beginning of the thread and lot's of questions are asked over and over. That said if you don't get an immediate response, the reason is the answer is in the beginning of the thread Many of us are really busy these days calibrating and just don't have the time to discuss every question.
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John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified

Last edited by jrref; 06-18-2019 at 01:44 PM.
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post #478 of 1115 Old 06-18-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Could you guys tell me if i have profile my i1display pro retail properly with my reference i1pro2 and if my calibration will be accurate?


Your screenshot shows only the result of the blue color. Your measurements of your profiled meter can have +/- 0.001 tolerance for xy readings and +/- 1.5% for Y compared to the reference to have a valid meter profile.

TV: LG OLED 65C8 Sources: Apple TV 4K, OPPO UDP-203 Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: Klein K10-A, i1 Display Pro OEM Rev.B (2018), i1Pro2 OEM Rev.E Software: Lightspace HTP, Calman 2019 Ultimate
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post #479 of 1115 Old 06-18-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I was talking about comparing Sony DV Dark PM to LG DV Dark PM which I know is correct. As far as HDR Dynamic Tone mapping ON or OFF, I prefer it OFF when the set is calibrated Using the new CalMAN HDR calibration process. Read the first couple of posts in this thread.
Ha...I completely misunderstood what you were comparing. Thanks for explaining. I have read (and re-read) this thread from square 1. Yes, I agree with you, and other pros, that the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting should be OFF for calibration. What I am interested to know is others' opinion of how Dynamic Tone Mapping looks On versus Off with real time material on a calibrated TV. I know this is likely subjective. What bugs me a little is that I prefer (quite a bit) Dynamic Tone Mapping ON rather than OFF on a calibrated TV with custom tone mapping curves done during the calibration. With all the talk of custom tone mapping as a new feature, I was expecting to like that engaged (DTM OFF) better than dynamic tone mapping (DTM ON) on real time/reference material. Don't get me wrong...the C9's picture is phenomenal. I'm just nit picking and asking for opinions on the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting once the TV is calibrated.
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Last edited by Barefoot Joe; 06-18-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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post #480 of 1115 Old 06-21-2019, 12:45 PM
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I know about the Cnet and Rtings settings pages here:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled/settings
https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussi...and-hdr-notes/

Is there anything else I need to be doing besides these settings?

10 years ago, I remember going through a AVS HD 709 Disc with different patterns for PQ settings. Does that still apply?

If I am in a light controlled basement that is ambient dark all the time, would ISF Dark give me the best results? Are there any thread posts that you all know about that covers these settings?

Thanks for any direction going forward, it's been a while...
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