2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
LG Electronics with Dolby Laboratories published a study during SID's Display Week 2018, its available inside the SID Symposium Digest of Technical Papers - Volume 49, Issue 1 (May 2018) issue.

For that study, 'Correcting Metameric Failure of Wide Color Gamut Displays', using 13 reliable observers they performed a visual color matching trying to match a Reference Grade-1 CRT with the LG OLED (looks like they used 2018 panel) and they found that to perceptual match the Reference (CRT) White, a custom White Point with x: 0.308 y: 0.313 coordinates has to be used.

So its a better idea to that one....
Tried to start new calibration with custom whitepoint x: 0.308 y: 0.313 but it´s so much off and give wierd results that it makes me wonder if there is typo with y-coordinate
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post #572 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Tried to start new calibration with custom whitepoint x: 0.308 y: 0.313 but it´s so much off and give wierd results that it makes me wonder if there is typo with y-coordinate

There no typo.

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post #573 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
There no typo.
Okay, maby someone other is interested to see results with that whitepoint.

Here´s is picture just for compare:
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post #574 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Okay, maby someone other is interested to see results with that whitepoint.

Here´s is picture just for compare:
LG has performed the test and found that specific white point, so there nothing LG is asking for anyone to test, its results from their study with Dolby.

But even if you try this white point, you need to use similar spectro as the one Dolby/LG used to find that white point. (some thousand dollars)

Also when you are checking different white points, you have to create custom colorspace based to the custom white point coordinates, when you evaluate.

@ HCFR, tick change white, enter the new WP coordinates etc.

If you want perfection, you have to invest to a consumer spectro and if you still see issues with readings you will have with spectro (while meter say you are OK but your eyes see greenish etc.....because there differences from observer to observer) then you need to find out an old CRT or Plasma (or old LCD) to use it as reference and create a white point based to perceptual matching method:

https://www.lightillusion.com/percep...our_match.html

http://flandersscientific.com/index/...htSpaceCMS.pdf

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post #575 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:31 AM
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I´m happy to calibrated picture with D-Nice x=.3080 y=.3296 (2018 LG) white point, picture looks good enough and better than technicolor default (Warm 1).
Going to use that also at next time with today created matrix.
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post #576 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:35 AM
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I´m happy to calibrated picture with D-Nice x=.3080 y=.3296 (2018 LG) white point, picture looks good enough and better than technicolor default (Warm 1).
Going to use that also at next time with today created matrix.
The same applies for D-Nice custom WP, since he used Photo Research Spectro, users with PR spectro will get a better match of the custom WP D-Nice found.

When you use a different instrument (which not certified) then the results from meter-per-meter will be variable.

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post #577 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:44 AM
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I´m not expect perfection with cheap meter, never done, what I meant you have to do major adjustments with that x: 0.308 y: 0.313 and it´s pretty different compared what´s released at this forum.
If you would do it yourself you know what I mean, from picture you should get idea.
btw, factory defaults (white balance and CMS are pretty good with this set, had to do only pretty small adjustments to get it "calibrated" or maby better word for DIY-instruments is "adjusted"
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post #578 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 11:53 AM
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I´m not expect perfection with cheap meter, never done, what I meant you have to do major adjustments with that x: 0.308 y: 0.313 and it´s pretty different compared what´s released at this forum.
If you would do it yourself you know what I mean, from picture you should get idea.
btw, factory defaults (white balance and CMS are pretty good with this set, had to do only pretty small adjustments to get it "calibrated" or maby better word for DIY-instruments is "adjusted"
I know what you mean, since I have informed for perceptual matching and issues appear due to metameric failure from 2016: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post49309561

Just for your current meter one WP can look ok, if you get other meter sample, it will look better an another white point, since there unit-per-unit variations.

Also LG's with Dolby experiment was more complete in procedure from any other test available. This don't change the fact that a diff. WP can look better for your TV and your eyes.

Generally to understand how a proper white should look, you should see who it look a white with a spectro and a CRT or plasma basically.

Now you are based more to what your eyes like more to see, not about how in reality has to look. For that reason I suggested the perceptual method (when is possible) than using diff. people WB, when proper meters are not available.

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post #579 of 1076 Old 09-07-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Ok, now I have the complete info to clear up every detail.

The EDR table for FSI WRGB (LG 2018 panel), as we know and I have posted from the first time that table announced, LightIllusion worked with Flanders Scientific (FSI) and X-Rite to create it.

So X-Rite requested some specific procedure data to be taken, these data transferred to X-Rite and X-Rite created that table.

Before that table added to LightSpace Installer, its been announced the availability of that EDR (as exciting news for i1Display PRO users) and provided download link (again to 2-3 forums Steve Shaw posted the link) for only that EDR file and instructions about how to manually enter it to LightSpace, some days later it came the official release of LightSpace which was including the FSI EDR to its installer, so no manual modification were required.

The reason that its not available to i1Profiler its because that EDR specifically created for LightIlusion and FSI, from X-Rite, but LightIllusion made available the data/info to all, at public.

X-Rite may add that table to the i1Profiler in a future update, but I don't think any i1Profiler user will use i1Profiler with FSI, since FSI has internal 1D/3D LUT's, as 2018 LG OLED's these LUT capabilities also.

So if CalMAN want to add it to their software, they can grab it from LightSpace folder, Steve Shaw (CEO of LightIllusion) has not problem with that and he has never restricted any data/usage.

So all users of CalMAN with i1Display PRO will take advantage, if CalMAN add it.

LightIllusion has never limit any capability of any hardware, even when companies offered software locked meters/pattern generators which can work only with LightSpace to be released, as capability for LightSpace users only.



Thanks for the info.



Is the file named FSI_XM55U_23Jan19.edr the one you are referring to that should be used for 2019 LG Oled instead of Raw XYZ?

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post #580 of 1076 Old 09-08-2019, 02:12 AM
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Thanks for the info.

Is the file named FSI_XM55U_23Jan19.edr the one you are referring to that should be used for 2019 LG Oled instead of Raw XYZ?
The FSI_XM55U_23Jan19.EDR file created based on LG 2018 Panel spectral data. Since there no other EDR based to LG 2019 Panel data, then use that one for 2019 also.

RAW XYZ is not EDR file, its selection which will not load any additional display specific spectral data, so its like saying to the meter, don't use any EDR spectral correction, just use the factory calibration sensor data only.

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post #581 of 1076 Old 09-08-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The FSI_XM55U_23Jan19.EDR file created based on LG 2018 Panel spectral data. Since there no other EDR based to LG 2019 Panel data, then use that one for 2019 also.

RAW XYZ is not EDR file, its selection which will not load any additional display specific spectral data, so its like saying to the meter, don't use any EDR spectral correction, just use the factory calibration sensor data only.
So after acquiring the file and putting it into the proper Calman folder with all the .edr's, I am not seeing it in the drop down for display type in Calman.

Also, is it true that the FSI edr only works for SDR and not HDR or DV?

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post #582 of 1076 Old 09-08-2019, 08:13 PM
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post #583 of 1076 Old 09-09-2019, 03:37 AM
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So after acquiring the file and putting it into the proper Calman folder with all the .edr's, I am not seeing it in the drop down for display type in Calman.
Its normal to not work with just a copy paste of any file to that folder, CalMAN has to add that capability, for any additional table for i1Display PRO.[/QUOTE]

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Also, is it true that the FSI edr only works for SDR and not HDR or DV?
It doesn't matter what colorspace you will use, REC2020 or P3 (not for consumer usage) or REC.709.
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post #584 of 1076 Old 09-09-2019, 07:36 PM
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Why would it not work for HDR/DV?


From the Calman Home for LG thread I have attached the screenshot below what i'm referencing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Its normal to not work with just a copy paste of any file to that folder, CalMAN has to add that capability, for any additional table for i1Display PRO.


It doesn't matter what colorspace you will use, REC2020 or P3 (not for consumer usage) or REC.709.[/QUOTE]


So what you are saying is it isn't possible to manually add it to Calman and i'm chasing a 6 legged goat?


Is it even worth chasing the difference? Let's say I purchase a C6 instead and be done, since there is an OLED profile for it in Calman? How much better can using a spectro to profile be? 20% better, 50%?
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post #585 of 1076 Old 09-09-2019, 11:50 PM
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From the Calman Home for LG thread I have attached the screenshot below what i'm referencing.






It doesn't matter what colorspace you will use, REC2020 or P3 (not for consumer usage) or REC.709.

So what you are saying is it isn't possible to manually add it to Calman and i'm chasing a 6 legged goat?


Is it even worth chasing the difference? Let's say I purchase a C6 instead and be done, since there is an OLED profile for it in Calman? How much better can using a spectro to profile be? 20% better, 50%?[/QUOTE]



In theory you could just rename the EDR to an existing name that is supported, And then replace that one with the renamed file.
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post #586 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
So what you are saying is it isn't possible to manually add it to Calman and i'm chasing a 6 legged goat?


Is it even worth chasing the difference? Let's say I purchase a C6 instead and be done, since there is an OLED profile for it in Calman? How much better can using a spectro to profile be? 20% better, 50%?


In theory you could just rename the EDR to an existing name that is supported, And then replace that one with the renamed file.[/QUOTE]

Or, maybe you can edit the I1D3Mapping.txt after putting the edr file in folder.

3,CCFLFamily_07Feb11.edr
6,WGCCFLFamily_07Feb11.edr
9,WLEDFamily_07Feb11.edr
12,RGBLEDFamily_07Feb11.edr
15,OLEDFamily_20Jul12.edr
17,PlasmaFamily_20Jul12.edr
18,RG_Phosphor_Family_25Jul12.edr
22,ProjectorFamily_07Feb11.edr
24,FSI_XM55U_23Jan19.edr
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post #587 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by EMINENT1 View Post
So what you are saying is it isn't possible to manually add it to Calman and i'm chasing a 6 legged goat?

Is it even worth chasing the difference? Let's say I purchase a C6 instead and be done, since there is an OLED profile for it in Calman? How much better can using a spectro to profile be? 20% better, 50%?
I don't know how to add that EDR from LightSpace to CalMAN, if there no way to add it, you can still use meter profiling procedure, using LightSpace ZRO as reference and creating meter correction for CalMAN.

The procedure is explained to another user who asked about how to use a ChromaPure's PRO table from CalMAN, for not posting the same procedure (by replacing the word 'ChromaPure' with 'LightSpace ZRO') with the same instructions, you can see them there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58369748

After you will import and create the table for your meter to CalMAN, you can continue using CalMAN for your calibration, but you will have better results from RAW XYZ selection.

So you download and use LightSpace ZRO with WRGB OLED EDR table as active and you get the 4x xyY numbers from there, which will use as reference to import them to CalMAN's Four Color Matrix Tool.

As the i1Display PRO is a consumer low-cost device which; while for the money costs is amazing deal... we will not expect to have superior level of color accuracy even if X-Rite or SpectraCAL create a specifically spectral correction table using your exact TV sample you have to your place....because the EDR spectral correction tables are combined with factory calibration table to provide you the total correction offset, so since X-Rite manufacture the meters with +-0.004 xy and +-4% Y deviation specs, it can happen randomly one meter to be better from the other, but you can't expect more for that money, X-Rite has done the best job to offer that such good meter to such low price for all people to be able to invest for calibration starting from that i1Display PRO as fist step and adding as further step a spectro (like i1PRO2) to improve more the color accuracy of i1Display PRO readings.

As you can see below, X-Rite don't recommend for anyone to use these specs (for that reason there no specs also to X-Rite page) because as the meters are not shipped certified and its a low cost meter, the deviations to end product will be larger from these. So even if you use the best EDR, this will not fix these meter tolerances from meter-to-meter variations.



The exact some tolerances use the C6 meters also, since only X-Rite can calibrate the sensor, we have discussed about this here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58386280

(read from that post till the end, I have other data to post just I'm waiting if Tyler will even reply to the many current questions first.)
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post #588 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 07:40 AM
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In theory you could just rename the EDR to an existing name that is supported, And then replace that one with the renamed file.
In theory... I would like to know facts, does it work or not?
I´m thinking to puchase CalMAN Home for LG but not just because there´s is "theory".
I would like to get some direct answers please.
I contacted also portrait displays support (since this isn´t official support for CalMAN products or is it?!) and made same questions than in this forum, no aswers.
Don´t know your tactic how to play with potential customers or is it better just be quiet.
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post #589 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 07:47 AM
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2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
In theory... I would like to know facts, does it work or not?
I´m thinking to puchase CalMAN Home for LG but not just because there´s is "theory".
I would like to get some direct answers please.
I contacted also portrait displays support (since this isn´t official support for CalMAN products or is it?!) and made same questions than in this forum, no aswers.
Don´t know your tactic how to play with potential customers or is it better just be quiet.

The WOLED EDR is not supported in CalMAN because it is not a part of the official X-rite SDK.

I suggested a possible workaround.

I would suggest having somebody in the CalNAN Home for LG thread test the workaround.
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post #590 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 07:53 AM
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I would suggest having somebody in the CalNAN Home for LG thread test the workaround.
I would like that also, waiting for results
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post #591 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:02 AM
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The WOLED EDR is not supported in CalMAN because it is not a part of the official X-rite SDK.
1) The official X-Rite SDK has updated the RGB OLED table @ Aug 2018 but CalMAN still using the older X-Rite RGB OLED (July 2012), see below if you haven't been informed for that detail:



Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi4Vision View Post
Here's a list of EDR files that come with CalMAN Home (v5.10.0.50):



Located in: C:\ProgramData\Portrait Displays\CalMAN 5 Home\Data\i1D3

2) CalMAN is not using the official SDK DLL file to operate the X-Rite instrument. As its not supporting AIO mode, the reason X-Rite changed completely the meter firmware (from Rev. A -> Rev. B) to add that meter mode capability, which CalMAN don't use it.

You need a file called i1d3SDK.dll to operate the meter with official X-Rite way, this file is not available inside CalMAN/Common folder. If you look its available inside to LightSpace and ChromaPure installation folders, as both LightSpace and ChromaPure use completely and official SDK to operate the meters.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58525250

3) As that FSI EDR file was a special job from FSI with LightIllusion and X-Rite, Steve Shaw (CEO of LightSpace) has approved and has not problem to take that EDR file from LightSpace folder and add it properly to CalMAN, for the CalMAN users not to do all these workarounds.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58525408

But you can do whatever you like with your product, just from LightSpace side, there no problem from that file to be used from any other software. I have informed Tom from ChromaPure, DisplayCAL and ArgyllCMS developers also for that detail, so all people with i1Display PRO will get advantage from that file, if its been added officially to other software solutions.
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post #592 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:09 AM
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"So if CalMAN want to add it to their software, they can grab it from LightSpace folder, Steve Shaw (CEO of LightIllusion) has not problem with that and he has never restricted any data/usage.

So all users of CalMAN with i1Display PRO will take advantage, if CalMAN add it."

I just wonder why they don´t add it?
You would get lots of new customers, i1 Display Pro users.
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post #593 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:12 AM
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I would like that also, waiting for results
Tested:
1. I tried to edit the id3remap.txt with fsi....edr

Started Calm and treid to select WOLED without luck. It does not appear in the dropdownlist.

2. I deleted the old oled.edr and copied in the fsi.edr and renamed it to the old oled file.

So I started Calman Home and selected Oled as Meter Profile.

So until this point it is working. Now i have to calibrate once with xyz and once withe oled to see the difference.

Will try later when the dawn arrives. :-)
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post #594 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirk Pajonk View Post
Tested:
1. I tried to edit the id3remap.txt with fsi....edr

Started Calm and treid to select WOLED without luck. It does not appear in the dropdownlist.

2. I deleted the old oled.edr and copied in the fsi.edr and renamed it to the old oled file.

So I started Calman Home and selected Oled as Meter Profile.

So until this point it is working. Now i have to calibrate once with xyz and once withe oled to see the difference.

Will try later when the dawn arrives. :-)
To see if it really works, take measurements with XYZ RAW, then with normal OLED and then with modified OLED.

If there difference between normal vs. modified OLED and the same time modified OLED is not the same as RAW XYZ, then it works!.

Alternative way to to see if just a 100% White reading from LightSpace ZRO with that WRGB table has the same reading with mod. OLED from inside CalMAN and 100% reading also.
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post #595 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:32 AM
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In theory you could just rename the EDR to an existing name that is supported, And then replace that one with the renamed file.
The funny is that when I provide unofficial solutions for users to use instruments not supported by LightSpace, you are always there to mention that CalMAN is using only official ways not provide 'hacked' solutions: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58422632

....but now you provide instructions about how a CalMAN user to use unofficially a different EDR lol (while as I posted, there no problem the EDR to being added officially, as even if a method will be found by the users here to AVS to use that EDR, the CalMAN guide will still say to select RAW XYZ (and videos also), so the people they will have to find that post here to AVS to be informed about that capability....and these specific posts, after 1 month they will be 20 forum pages 'old').

Its better idea to provide a complete solution which will help all users, including the ones will not visit AVS and search 200 other posts until to locate that info.

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post #596 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:43 AM
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To see if it really works, take measurements with XYZ RAW, then with normal OLED and then with modified OLED.

If there difference between normal vs. modified OLED and the same time modified OLED is not the same as RAW XYZ, then it works!.

Alternative way to to see if just a 100% White reading from LightSpace ZRO with that WRGB table has the same reading with mod. OLED from inside CalMAN and 100% reading also.
Ok, so I have to rename another edr instead Oled to try both.
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post #597 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:46 AM
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Ok, so I have to rename another edr instead Oled to try both.
Measure with normal OLED (the original one) and with RAW XYZ....then close CalMAN, replace the OLED with the file from LightSpace EDR FSI, then start calman and measure OLED, then compare 3 reports.

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post #598 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 08:55 AM
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CalMAN Home for LG, there is not option to take readings manually?
So you would just take those three sets of measures (WRGB) and write them up to compare?


btw, Anyone knows is there any place to get i1 Display Pro rev.B OEM version from Europe?
You can get rev.B retail from Germany (ebay) about for 220eur

Last edited by Make73; 09-10-2019 at 09:07 AM.
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post #599 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 09:14 AM
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CalMAN Home for LG, there is not option to take readings manually?
So you would just take those three different sets of measures (WRGB) and write them up to compare?
Use a workflow layout page where it will be at bottom right a 'play' icon, which take a single reading: https://kb.portrait.com/help/calman-action-buttons

If you enable keyboard shortcuts, then F5 key will measure single color, while F10 key will measure all page.

When you will be in a Grayscale layout page, if you press Alt+F10 keys, it will read 100% grayscale.

Shortcut keys info are not documented (there 24 keyboard shortcuts I know).

Only reading 100% White only it will show the difference, no need to take further measurements, unless you want to take a full grayscale reading.
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post #600 of 1076 Old 09-10-2019, 11:19 AM
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Ok, fist 5 posts to send images :-)
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