2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
This diagnostic screen is going to confuse a lot of people (I was one too). Read back on the last page. There is a technical limit of HDMI that causes the TV to not always report the actual bit-depth.

Consult this chart to see what is possible depending on frame rates:

It occurs to me reading that chart - and the one in my sig - that for 4K resolution, if it's 4:2:2, then we know it MUST be 12bit :-) . This is because 8 and 10 bit are NOT supported and part of the HDMI standard at this particular resolution of 4K, so nothing should be sending 4:2:2 8 or 10 bit in the first place. Simple :-)

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post #1052 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
CalMAN also has drift compensation, in fact we had it back in the plasma days. But now that OLED has more drift issues that plasma did, which is mostly because these OLEDs can get much brighter, we have added more intelligence to the algorithm.
This is good news, thanks. I'm assuming this is completely separate to the "pattern insertion" options that people have been discussing since, but the drift compensation you mention here is that which is described here: https://kb.portrait.com/help/drift-compensation

Is it the case that the DC algorithm is still under review, or is the "enhanced" DC algorithm as now available in the current 2019 R2 software the result?
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post #1053 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Why do you constantly ask questions that you know the answer to? Of course you have seen lightspace drift tracking of LG panels at different luminance levels.
You two really love each other, don't you ?!

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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
CalMAN also has drift compensation, in fact we had it back in the plasma days. But now that OLED has more drift issues that plasma did, which is mostly because these OLEDs can get much brighter, we have added more intelligence to the algorithm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
This is good news, thanks. I'm assuming this is completely separate to the "pattern insertion" options that people have been discussing since, but the drift compensation you mention here is that which is described here: https://kb.portrait.com/help/drift-compensation
Thanks for all the valuable info! I wasn't even aware CalMAN has a drift compensation algorithm.

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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
As Tyler and Ted have pointed out at 250 nits, Expert Bright, the panel is going to drift so if you are using CM you need to shorten the insertion pattern, try 15,5,15 for both the 1D and 3D LUT and with the i1 although it will work well, you probably want to do a smaller LUT. Try 3,000 pts instead of 10,000. See what happens.
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Attached is typically what I get with CM on a LG OLED ISF Bright. For this set I did a 1,300 pt 3D LUT with my Klein K10A.
Thanks a lot John, these are good tips and I will definitely try them out as soon as I find the time. I'll let you know what the results were as soon as I have them.
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post #1054 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 02:52 PM
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I am looking for a TV where I can very precisely control brightness. Not in the usual blast our brains but rather, to dim the screen but still have a good picture. This is due to migraine.
I heard that OLED is better for “dark” and OLED is LG territory. The sets cost a thousand more than I can afford but, if I can actually dim it precisely, bring down the white point, but be able to watch dark, low light shows and movies (a lot of them now with digital cameras) — I am willing to get an OLED set for $1000 to $1400.
A) is what I am assuming right about OLED being right for those who want a detailed but much dimmer screen?
B) if so, what should I focus on in picking a set? Really good dimming and detail is what I would be after. Salesmen never hear this so, they are all clueless.
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post #1055 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
It occurs to me reading that chart - and the one in my sig - that for 4K resolution, if it's 4:2:2, then we know it MUST be 12bit :-) . This is because 8 and 10 bit are NOT supported and part of the HDMI standard, so nothing should be sending 4:2:2 8 or 10 bit in the first place. Simple :-)
True. Also I've found on the Oppo 203 it won't even let you output 8-bit for HDR. If you force 8-bit 4:4:4 output in the menu it still does 10-bit. And if you force 4:2:0 it still outputs 4:2:2. The player is outsmarting us.
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post #1056 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
It occurs to me reading that chart - and the one in my sig - that for 4K resolution, if it's 4:2:2, then we know it MUST be 12bit :-) . This is because 8 and 10 bit are NOT supported and part of the HDMI standard, so nothing should be sending 4:2:2 8 or 10 bit in the first place. Simple :-)
Its not 12-bit all the time, the TV is not able to recognize the bit-depth.

For example if you send your signal to the AccuPel DGA-6000 generator/analyzer, it can count and report the actual bit-depth being used by a YCbCr 4:2:2 signal.

You have see the whole expiation reading Greg Rogers (Video Engineer of Accupel Generators) here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post51797281

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post #1057 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
True. Also I've found on the Oppo 203 it won't even let you output 8-bit for HDR. If you force 8-bit 4:4:4 output in the menu it still does 10-bit. And if you force 4:2:0 it still outputs 4:2:2. The player is outsmarting us.
If you press and hold 'Info' on the OPPO's remote during video playback, the extended information screen will be displayed and you will see the actual content + video output info.

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post #1058 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
If you press and hold 'Info' on the OPPO's remote during video playback, the extended information screen will be displayed and you will see the actual content + video output info.
Yes and it confirms my findings. If you choose a combination that is not allowed the player will automatically override your choice.
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post #1059 of 1121 Old 11-06-2019, 06:45 PM
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Is the elevated black issue after CalMAN AutoCAL a recent issue or its been known for a while. I had my calibrated before 04.70.05 or it doesn't matter?

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post #1060 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Because of the place of the pattern generator in the video pipeline you need to use external brightness and contrast patterns, For example from the Spears and Munsil line of test discs.
Thanks for this Tyler,

I did try to PM you but because I'm new I can only send to admins

Post calibration I set brightness and contrast (both ISF dark and bright) using AVS709 test patterns from a USB stick. I'm having to set crazy values, though. Contrast is presently 95 and brightness 60 on dark and both values a bit higher on the bright one. Apparently I should only have to adjust these by a click or two from the default settings post calibration. I have peak brightness off for SDR - is there anything I should be trying or does this sound ok? I know another forum member suggested the panel might be out of spec.

Thanks in advance
Simon
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post #1061 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyingsi77 View Post
Thanks for this Tyler,

I did try to PM you but because I'm new I can only send to admins

Post calibration I set brightness and contrast (both ISF dark and bright) using AVS709 test patterns from a USB stick. I'm having to set crazy values, though. Contrast is presently 95 and brightness 60 on dark and both values a bit higher on the bright one. Apparently I should only have to adjust these by a click or two from the default settings post calibration. I have peak brightness off for SDR - is there anything I should be trying or does this sound ok? I know another forum member suggested the panel might be out of spec.

Thanks in advance
Simon
You shouldn't have to change the contrast or the brightness especially to 60. I don't use the iTPG so if you want a quick answer it's best to send an email to CalMan support or scan through the CalMAN Home for LG thread for some guidance since I remember this being discussed a while back.

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post #1062 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is the elevated black issue after CalMAN AutoCAL a recent issue or its been known for a while. I had my calibrated before 04.70.05 or it doesn't matter?
We don't know because we don't know what's causing the problem. We do know LG is working on it so it should be fixed soon.
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post #1063 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is the elevated black issue after CalMAN AutoCAL a recent issue or its been known for a while. I had my calibrated before 04.70.05 or it doesn't matter?
The first time I noticed the problem was in early September (see here) with firmware v03.60.05.
And I still have the problem with HDR calibrations and the latest (EU) firmware version v04.70.05.

So the answer depends on how you define "a while"
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post #1064 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 12:06 PM
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Bought i1 Display Pro OEM rev.B from Ted (ConnecTEDDD) and it arrived at today.
https://displaycalibrations.com/x-ri...ons_order.html
Manufactured 10/2019 so it´s not become old at any warehouse.

Going to make some re-measurements (CalMAN Home for LG and HCFR) with that new meter if old one (i1 Display Pro from 11/2013) had any problems.
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post #1065 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Bought i1 Display Pro OEM rev.B from Ted (ConnecTEDDD) and it arrived at today.
https://displaycalibrations.com/x-ri...ons_order.html
Manufactured 10/2019 so it´s not become old at any warehouse.

Going to make some re-measurements (CalMAN Home for LG and HCFR) with that new meter if old one (i1 Display Pro from 2012) had any problems.
Snap! I had one delivered yesterday too via Ted, I think it took less than a week to arrive in the UK, direct from X-rite US. Also October 2019 meter. Initial impressions very good - it is much, much closer to my Jeti spectro than my old Rev A OEM i1d3 meter without any probe matching. Reading very well from the projector lens at close to 2000 nits with diffuser down, which should allow me to make very fast 3DLUT profiles with high numbers of points. Great little meter, very pleased.
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post #1066 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Bought i1 Display Pro OEM rev.B from Ted (ConnecTEDDD) and it arrived at today.
https://displaycalibrations.com/x-ri...ons_order.html
Manufactured 10/2019 so it´s not become old at any warehouse.

Going to make some re-measurements (CalMAN Home for LG and HCFR) with that new meter if old one (i1 Display Pro from 2012) had any problems.
You should use Ted's profiling verification work flow for CM to compare the two meters and post what you see. Should be interesting.

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post #1067 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 01:02 PM
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- Calibrated (CM autocal) with old Retail revA
- Measured that with new OEM revB (Pre)
- Calibrated (CM autocal) with new (Post)

That don´t tell much but enough that I already sold old one.
I don´t have reference where to compare so can´t say anything about accuracy.

ChromaPure have measured that there is some differences also between unit to unit:
http://www.chromapure.com/newgear_i1...20Accuracy.asp
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post #1068 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Its not 12-bit all the time, the TV is not able to recognize the bit-depth.

For example if you send your signal to the AccuPel DGA-6000 generator/analyzer, it can count and report the actual bit-depth being used by a YCbCr 4:2:2 signal.

You have see the whole expiation reading Greg Rogers (Video Engineer of Accupel Generators) here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post51797281
That is nothing to do with what I wrote, Ted, and I already understand why YCbCr 4:2:2 doesn't allow the TV to know the bit-depth, the link is not necessary to what I wrote.

You have seen my whole post above that HDMI 2.0 does not allow 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit or 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit. It's on the HDMI.org website and the table posted above. Only talking about 4K resolution. If you send 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 that is 10bit or 8bit, it's not legal. No proper device would send it, because it's not legal, so it is perfectly ok for human viewers looking at the screen to assume that 99% of the time it is going to be the HDMI legal 12bit value. That's ALL that I said!
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post #1069 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:07 PM
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That is nothing to do with what I wrote, Ted, and I already understand why YCbCr 4:2:2 doesn't allow the TV to know the bit-depth, the link is not necessary to what I wrote.

You have seen my whole post above that HDMI 2.0 does not allow 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit or 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit. It's on the HDMI.org website and the table posted above. Only talking about 4K resolution. If you send 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 that is 10bit or 8bit, it's not legal. No proper device would send it, because it's not legal, so it is perfectly ok for human viewers looking at the screen to assume that 99% of the time it is going to be the HDMI legal 12bit value. That's ALL that I said!
You can send 8/10/12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 no problem, take a look: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/19...UC_C369579.pdf

The TV will not understand what bit-depth you send. If you have Accupel 6000 it can count and tell your if its 8/10/12.

You can use a pattern generator and see, read what Greg says. If you send with Accupel 5000 8 or 10 4:2:2, the Accupel 6000 will report the bit-depth.





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post #1070 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
That is nothing to do with what I wrote, Ted, and I already understand why YCbCr 4:2:2 doesn't allow the TV to know the bit-depth, the link is not necessary to what I wrote.

You have seen my whole post above that HDMI 2.0 does not allow 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit or 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit. It's on the HDMI.org website and the table posted above. Only talking about 4K resolution. If you send 4K YCbCr 4:2:2 that is 10bit or 8bit, it's not legal. No proper device would send it, because it's not legal, so it is perfectly ok for human viewers looking at the screen to assume that 99% of the time it is going to be the HDMI legal 12bit value. That's ALL that I said!
Not wanting to get in the middle here, but it seems like you guys may be at crossed purposes?
Yes, the transport that is valid is 12 bits for YCrCb 4:2:2 at 4k per the HDMI 2.0 standard.
However, just because the pipe is 12 bits doesn't mean that all those bits are in use.

It is quite possible for a device to be sending 12 bits, where the 2 or 4 least significant bits are zeros (an 8 or 10 bit pipeline hooked up to a 12 bit output without additional dither, just padded to fill 12 bits with zeros). So to all intents and purposes it is an 8 or 10 bit signal in a 12 bit wrapper.

The bandwidth requirements over HDMI are of course the same because you have to allow for all 12 bits to be used (even if they're not actively used), but the end result may not be; hence why to be certain what is being sent within the 12 bit wrapper you need a device that can watch the pixel values and work out is the 2 or 4 LSBs are ever active. If they are not then you have either an 8 or 10 bit signal within a 12 bit wrapper.
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post #1071 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:15 PM
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Not wanting to get in the middle here, but it seems like you guys may be at crossed purposes?
Yes, the transport that is valid is 12 bits for YCrCb 4:2:2 at 4k per the HDMI 2.0 standard.
However, just because the pipe is 12 bits doesn't mean that all those bits are in use.
Please do, otherwise every time I clarify it he'll pick apart a different word so that he can reply (only joking Ted!)

Yes, I'm talking about which wrapper signals are legal and valid for 4K60 4:2:2. The only valid one is 12bit. It's in their graphic. Why is that so hard to understand? And yes you don't have to fill all 12 bits (the PS4 pro does this, for example).

I'm also saying that if you send 8/10 bit 4:2:2 (not tunnelled inside a 12bit wrapper) they are illegal. All I really meant, and I'll say a third time in case it needs clarifying but by now all I am doing is repeating myself, is that we know that the "wrapper" mode, the actual HDMI mode being used, is 12bit in these circumstances because the 8/10bit modes are not legal in HDMI2.0.
As ever, I end up wishing that my helpful idea (remembering that only 12bit is legal) is something I had kept quiet. Just too much hassle to post anything sometimes.
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post #1072 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:25 PM
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You can send 8/10/12bit YCbCr 4:2:2 no problem, take a look: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/19...UC_C369579.pdf
No. I didn't ask that. I'm talking about what HDMI2.0 allows. I am not talking about what is "possible" or what "works". (You are, but I am not, and I never was.) Please stop mixing up two different things.

You need to wait until HDMI.org change their graphic to look like this:
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post #1073 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:44 PM
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I think it is a fine line between correct definitions and what is the actual useful information. If you took the example of a water pipe that could take 12 litres / minute and just stuck 8 litres / minute down it - you wouldn't say you were outputting 12 litres per minute, and that it could take 12 litres per minute isn't so useful to know at that point (unless you >might< put 12l down it). That's why devices exist to check what pixel values are and how many bits are actually in use, as that is the information that matters (how many litres did I actually get, not could have got).

I've been involved in the design of a consumer DAC product with Windows drivers. Same issue - playback of CD media would often light the 24 bit light even if the media was 16 bit CD audio, because the data was wrapped in 24 bit samples, padded with zeros in the 8 LSB. Solution was for the FPGA to watch the LSB for activity and report bit depth appropriately based on the number of bits actually in use, rather than the transport width which wouldn't change.
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post #1074 of 1121 Old 11-07-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
No. I didn't ask that. I'm talking about what HDMI2.0 allows. I am not talking about what is "possible" or what "works". (You are, but I am not, and I never was.) Please stop mixing up two different things.
You are not getting it, the SiliconImage chip manual I send you talking and has charts where it says about 4:2:2, use search and read. Its one of the very popular HDMI 2.0 transmitter players/AVR's/ PC VGA's are using.

We talked about identification problem due to CTA/CEA/HDMI limitation from sink.

As you see people with LG here have reported here that 4:2:2 identified as 8-bit (what your HDMI picture has to say about this? lol).

For that reason I started describing the reason behind this. Don't you see the 2 pictures of Accupel which say 4:2:2 10-bit or 4:2:2 8-bit above?

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I think it is a fine line between correct definitions and what is the actual useful information. If you took the example of a water pipe that could take 12 litres / minute and just stuck 8 litres / minute down it - you wouldn't say you were outputting 12 litres per minute, and that it could take 12 litres per minute isn't so useful to know at that point (unless you >might< put 12l down it). That's why devices exist to check what pixel values are and how many bits are actually in use, as that is the information that matters (how many litres did I actually get, not could have got).
Indeed, I agree. That's why I mentioned that the PS4 does this. But I, just me, I, was only talking about the wrapper mode. I'm sure I will be told that I'm lying and I wasn't talking about the wrapper mode, but I hope everyone else will believe me, I was. Stopping now for sanity's sake.
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post #1076 of 1121 Old 11-11-2019, 10:42 AM
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Use the EZ-ADJ button of Service Remote to access the LG OLED TV Service Menu, it will ask for a password, type '0413', navigate to '12. White Balance', and select the color temperature you want to adjust.

If you want to adjust for example the 'Medium' of Service Menu, start by setting the default 192 value to R-Gain, G-Gain and B-Gain and 64 value to R-Cut, G-Cut and B-Cut controls.



When R/G/B gain in the OSD is at 192 value, it means that the panel works at its Full Dynamic Range. In order to prevent saturation of Full Dynamic range and data, one of R/G/B channels need to be fixed at 192 value, for pre-calibrating the White Balance, lower only the other two channels.

To this menu, don't press the RESET button, it will delete the factory value stored to main board and it will display some letters with red letters to the main SM screen. (it will not harm the TV, just if you send the TV for repair, they can see that you deleted the factory values, where its used automated software and patch generation/meter to pre-cal the WB).

I have plan to update with picture about this, I will post a link.
For the LG OLED users (all models) who perform White Balance using Service Menu calibration controls (procedure explained here), to the White Balance Menu, don't press the RESET button:



During the factory Quality Control process, they will calibrate the White Balance of the TV using an LG software automatically probably which communicate with TV via RS-232, so when this be performed, it will send a flag that the White Balance calibration has been performed, so the adjusted values will be stored to the 3 color temp modes the TV has available for calibration of White Balance.



LG's QC technician will see that White Balance was been performed when he will look the initial service menu screen, see the left side of the following picture where it says ''Adjust White Balance: OK''



If you press 'RESET' to the white balance menu, it will delete the calibration values its stored from the factory for that specific panel so there will be a warning with red letters (right side of above picture) which will say ''Adjust White Balance: NG'' (aka NOT GOOD).

If you press RESET, it will not harm the TV, as with your own meters you can calibrate each color temp and save the settings, but you will always see these red letters are warning as you have reset the factory values the automated white balance calibration has send to the TV.

The problem is that if you TV will go for a repair, they may see that someone has reset the factory values, looking that warning there.

This is the reason I have to inform about this, as if you perform a custom white balance calibration without pressing any REST of WB values, it can't be noticed that TV's service menu has been used by the user.

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post #1077 of 1121 Old 11-12-2019, 02:12 AM
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CalMAN also has drift compensation, in fact we had it back in the plasma days. But now that OLED has more drift issues that plasma did, which is mostly because these OLEDs can get much brighter, we have added more intelligence to the algorithm.
All software have drift compensation capability, basically ArgyllCMS had it first, for more details: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56296158

See for example a user with a KURO Plasma here which is comparing how-stuff-in-real-world-works between software solutions, using IR Profiling with eeColor LUT Box as 3D LUT holder.

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post #1078 of 1121 Old 11-12-2019, 12:52 PM
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LG OLED 3D LUT Profiling for SDR with High Peak Output

Usually LG users perform SDR 3D LUT profiling using CalMAN or LightSpace for 100 nits, since its the peak output levels the SDR movies has been mastered.

As we know the LG's 2018/2019 models don't have ABL for up to ~150 nits peak output, so when you are profiling for 100 nits, there will be no problem during any SDR movie content playback related to frame APL which can enable the ABL limiter.

When you profile for higher nits, 250 nits for example, while during patch measurements when you will use 10% Windows it will not enable the ABL function, it can happen in movie content frames with high APL levels the ABL limiter to be enabled.

Since for having an accurate/reference level picture we don't want to have enabled any local dimming/dynamic function or any ABL limiter; ase these functions can deviate from the calibration it has been performed to any display, its better idea when maximum accuracy required to profile the display to the nits level which will not enable any of these functions, as we talking for LG's, maximum peak is safe to be up to 150 nits.

There some theories that LG's are not stable with high peak output from Tyler and that i1Display PRO is not recommended meter for large profiling due to drift from John:

WiFi-Spy: ''The panel is much less stable at 250 nits vs 100 nits. I usually do lightning LUT for Day mode and larger iRP for night mode.''

jrref: ''I do these sets every day and I never have a problem. Best to use ISF Bright with default settings, if you want the brightest picture make sure gamma is set to 0 and you can set the OLED light to 100, then set the screen insertion to 15/5/15, do a 1D LUT then a 3,000 pt 3D LUT and see how the results look. Your deltaE should be below 0.5 for grayscale and the CMS should be in the range of around DeltaE of 1ish.

MY guess is your panel is drifting trying to do a 10,000 pt LUT especially with an i1Display Pro. One thing to remember, although you can do large LUTs with lower cost meters, you really need a fast meter like a Klein to reliably do these large LUTs or set you screen insertion to a very short interval to help keep the panel from drifting.
''

I asked both of them if they have any data to provide to see how they have find out that panels are drifting at 250 nits before some days, so its was time to bring some real data to see how these panels actually drift with high brightness and if its possible to perform a successful profiling also.

There two users in AVSForum with LG OLED's which are both using i1Display PRO colorimeter for their 3D LUT profiling and they have performed a normal ~100 nits but a high-brightness profiling with ~250 nits also, so I will use these two data.

For reference, we have the user ''HiFi4Vision'' which have posted his results from using IR Profiling with CalMAN (100 nits and 250 nits) with his i1Display PRO here, and the user ''ebr9999'' which have performed display characterization using LightSpace with his i1Display PRO (100 nits here and 277 nits here)

User ''HiFi4Vision'' has verified his 100 nits IR Profiling performed by CalMAN using ColorChecker Classic measurements (24 patches only for verification) and he had average 0.6 dE2000 with max 0.9dE2000 with 100 nits IR Profiling, while for his 250 nits IR Profiling he had average 1.1dE2000 and max 2.2dE2000.

The user ''ebr9999'' has verified his 129 nits 3D LUT profiling performed by LightSpace using 10-Point Cube measurements (1000 color patches...which is the perfect way to evaluate a display performance volumetrically) and he had average 0.29dE2000 with max 0.9dE2000 while for his 277 nits profiling he had average of 0.37de2000 and max 1.31 dE2000.

According to Tyler, the OLED panels is not so stable at 250 nits but for that reason CalMAN has added more intelligence to their drift compensation algorithm, to prevent and count any drifting during the measurements time.

The problem with CalMAN is that the patchset when you are using IR Profiling is dynamically adjusted, in other words, if you perform 5x IR Profilings with CalMAN to the same display with the same pre-cal settings, the patchsets used per each time it will not be exact the same, this is not helping the user to see if different meter or patch generation setting he used, how the are helping or not. For example to find out how different values of patch delay before meter read or how the black frame insertion settings affect the end results.

It will be good for all CalMAN users it if can be added a drift plot chart; as the drift comp is active to all IR profilings and there no way to disable it; this will help the users to understand how different settings affect the panel stability etc.

The LightSpace user for example used the same meter/patch generation settings and the same patchset (so fixed patch order with fixed patch RGB triplets), so its easy looking his drift plot data to understand how the panel is drifting between 129 / 277 nits.

Lets start with Drift Plot of 129 nits:

The axis of luminance deviations is +-3 nits, the RGB lines show the chromaticity changes over the 5000 patch measurements, since LightSpace took one white patch sample after 50 other measurements patches (the user selected per 50, as there capability to set whatever values you like..like 100, 30 etc.)

He is the plot of 277 nits:


If you exclude the initial drop, because the user seems that he hadn't used a pre-roll patchset before running the actual profiling, there no significant changes to affect the profiling so much, such kind of drift deviations generally are small.

Since the CalMAN user had posted his CalMAN files and I had also the LightSpace user files also, I have import them all to LightSpace to evaluate using LightSpace Tools what is happening with Cube Viewer / 1D LUT Viewer and LUT Preview.

Starting from Cube viewer, lets compare using animated PNG files the generated cube's between LightSpace - CalMAN, while both users had i1Display PRO:












Looking the 1D LUT Viewer, as usual, the known problem witb CalMAN, is the reduced peak output visible if you look the right top corner.

The RGB lines look closer with CalMAN as the user had already pre-calibrated the 100% White before performed IR Profiling.

The LightSpace lines have a spacing because panel was more uncalibrated, so the red line for example is lower compared to other 2 lines as display had more red to its 100% White, so red channel reduced more to fix RGB balance.



Now looking the LUT Preview, 2 reference images are loaded and the 2 LUTs are applyed to these images, the will be pop-up the clipping to blue for example:

(The ''SOFS7_SE'' is the LightSpace file, while the ''SDR Expert Bright IR 10000'' is the CalMAN file)



..or the yellow + blue clipping more noticed:





Now lets compare the 4 files, CalMAN 100 nits, LightSpace 129 nits, CalMAN 250 nits and LightSpace 277 nits.










The summary of that test is that i1Display PRO and the LG OLED has no problem to be profiled for 277 nits, with no visible issues to cube data evaluation, something it can be informed by the 1000 points post-verification the user performed.
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post #1079 of 1121 Old 11-12-2019, 01:19 PM
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Nice analysis again Ted!

I´m sure all this is fixed when R3 arrives, before end of the year like Tyler wrote
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post #1080 of 1121 Old 11-12-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
According to Tyler, the OLED panels is not so stable at 250 nits but for that reason CalMAN has added more intelligence to their drift compensation algorithm, to prevent and count any drifting during the measurements time.

The problem with CalMAN is that the patchset when you are using IR Profiling is dynamically adjusted, in other words, if you perform 5x IR Profilings with CalMAN to the same display with the same pre-cal settings, the patchsets used per each time it will not be exact the same, this is not helping the user to see if different meter or patch generation setting he used, how the are helping or not. For example to find out how different values of patch delay before meter read or how the black frame insertion settings affect the end results.
I didn't know Calman dynamically adjusted the patch set. Unless this is done with a substantial amount of intelligence it sounds like a great recipe for huge amounts of display drift.

Has anyone captured a long patch sequence for one of these Calman profile runs? I do have some tools that I used for analysing patch sets to try and see whether a patch set would result in stable or slow moving drift vs nasty spikey drift that is very hard to correct; it would be really interesting to put the patch sets generated by this process through the tool and chart an estimate of what the patch set looks like for "driftiness". If someone sends me a list or RGB values that Calman would use for a big profile I can plot it.
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