2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 473Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 09:18 AM
Senior Member
 
bjaurelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
As posted elsewhere, the C6 is exactly the same as an i1D3 OEM, just in drag.
The real difference is it just costs a lot more.

When using with Calman there are alternate EDR files available.
But, as most users will match to a Spectro that is of little benefit.
(Especially with displays that suffer metameric failure, and require Perceptual matching anyway.)

Steve
I'm a bit surprised by the answers. Perhaps my error is coming from an audio background. I understand both are the same hardware. I thought getting an iDisplay Pro was like getting an uncalibrated mic and the C6 was like getting a mic with a calibration file. I guess that's not the case. What do you mean by the EDR table and factory calibration of the C6 with CalMan? Are these available with the OEM meter?
bjaurelio is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 09:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
EDR files are not held within the probe.
They are held within the associated software.

For example, LightSpace has the EDR files shown here: https://www.lightillusion.com/i1_display_pro.html
And many of those are not available with Calman.
(We just added the WOLED to LightSpace for example.)

So the hardware is actually irrelevant.
Calman could make the EDR files they use available to any i1D3...
As we do, with the C6, when it is used with LightSpace.

But, for true accuracy, using a Spectro to define an offset for your specific display is always better.
Except that displays with metameric failure require a Perceptual approach.
https://www.lightillusion.com/percep...our_match.html

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #93 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 10:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,823
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1545 Post(s)
Liked: 2143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
EDR files are not held within the probe.

They are held within the associated software.



For example, LightSpace has the EDR files shown here: https://www.lightillusion.com/i1_display_pro.html

And many of those are not available with Calman.

(We just added the WOLED to LightSpace for example.)



So the hardware is actually irrelevant.

Calman could make the EDR files they use available to any i1D3...

As we do, with the C6, when it is used with LightSpace.



But, for true accuracy, using a Spectro to define an offset for your specific display is always better.

Except that displays with metameric failure require a Perceptual approach.

https://www.lightillusion.com/percep...our_match.html



Steve

So you reversed engineered another thing huh? (EDRs)

Why don’t you make a new thread about this? this completely off topic for this thread.

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - for CalMAN

10 Bit Gradient Test Patterns (HEVC) - Free Download
WiFi-Spy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #94 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 10:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,823
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1545 Post(s)
Liked: 2143
2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
As posted elsewhere, the C6 is exactly the same as an i1D3 OEM, just in drag.

The real difference is it just costs a lot more.



When using with Calman there are alternate EDR files available.

But, as most users will match to a Spectro that is of little benefit.

(Especially with displays that suffer metameric failure, and require Perceptual matching anyway.)



Steve


Each one of our C6HDR2000’s are individually verified by us against a PR-740 and are NIST traceable.

Our devices include over 25 exclusive EDR’s including laser phosphor, Xenon, and WOLED.

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - for CalMAN

10 Bit Gradient Test Patterns (HEVC) - Free Download
WiFi-Spy is online now  
post #95 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 11:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
So you reversed engineered another thing huh? (EDRs)
What?
Had you bothered to do any research you would see this EDR was generated in partnership with X-Rite and FSI.
(Really should check things before making wild accusations...)

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION


Last edited by Light Illusion; 03-20-2019 at 12:36 PM.
Light Illusion is offline  
post #96 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,823
Mentioned: 232 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1545 Post(s)
Liked: 2143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
What?

Had you bothered to do any research you would see this EDR was generated in partnership with X-Rite and FSI.

(Really should check things before making wild accusations...)



Steve


Did you mention to them that you are distributing a hacked driver that unlocks all their meters?

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - for CalMAN

10 Bit Gradient Test Patterns (HEVC) - Free Download
WiFi-Spy is online now  
post #97 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 03:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Did you mention to them that you are distributing a hacked driver that unlocks all their meters?
Again, had you bothered to do any research you would know we are not distributing anything...

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #98 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 03:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Did you mention to them that you are distributing a hacked driver that unlocks all their meters?
People which have already bought an i1Display PRO (Retail/or branded OEM) will be able to use their colorimter with LightSpace, so basically LightIllussion loose money from not selling them new OEM meters.

But users are happy with that, to be able to use any meter they already own, without need to re-buy the same meter with different cover or sticker. They can save money for a spectro.

Sure you are against anything which makes peoples calibration life better... (without spending extra $$)

Basically C6-HDR2000 works faster in LightSpace than from CalMAN, when you will use the X-Rite AIO sync mode which CalMAN is not using.

The same is happening with K-10A, Discus, and with JETI also, they work much faster with LightSpace.

You can try the LightSpace DPS free version where you can use any meter LightSpace supports for free, and experience the speed difference immediately.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #99 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 04:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Each one of our C6HDR2000’s are individually verified by us against a PR-740 and are NIST traceable.
How many C6-HDR2000 (aka i1Display PRO Branded OEM Rev.B) which has been verified ever fail to pass that verification?

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #100 of 733 Old 03-20-2019, 04:29 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4876
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I don’t recommend using that feature for SDR unless you think 260-280 nits is too dim for your Day mode. That feature enables the “white boost” HDR panel mode for SDR. It will make the display become non-additive.
Are you sayng this because with Peak Luminance OFF, in SDR mode the White Subpixel is deactivated and the WOLED panel is effectively operating like an RGB OLED?

My simple math says that when cranked up to peak white levels of ~900 Nits (10% window), about half the lumens are making it through the White subpixel, the other half coming through the combination of Red, Green and blue Subpixels.

So deactivating the white suboixel ought to reduce 10% peak white in HDR mode by half to ~450 Nits.

In SDR, ABL limits peak white to ~350 Nits (10% window) so the same logic would say you'd only get ~175 Nits with the white subpixels deactivated.

Full-field is a little trickier (and also probably less important): the ~150 Nits the C8 delivers full-field is presumably being limited to that level due to power consumption limitations (and heat). When deactivating the white subpixels, lumens drops to ~75 Nits but power consumption also drops by ~25%, so in theory, the RGB subpixels could be driven ~33% harder to deliver ~100 Nits at equivalent power consumption as the 450 Nits being delivered with the white subpixels.

Has anyone measured full-field sustained peak brightness with Peak Luminance OFF?

I'm curious to understand whether Peak Luminance OFF transforms a 2019 WOLED into an RGB OLED able to deliver plasma-like color accuracy at plasma-like brightness levels of 120-150 Nits...
fafrd is online now  
post #101 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 12:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Unfortunately, the white pixel is never 'off'.
It is just not 'boosted' as much.

Steve
jrref likes this.

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #102 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 02:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Full-field is a little trickier (and also probably less important): the ~150 Nits the C8 delivers full-field is presumably being limited to that level due to power consumption limitations (and heat). When deactivating the white subpixels, lumens drops to ~75 Nits but power consumption also drops by ~25%, so in theory, the RGB subpixels could be driven ~33% harder to deliver ~100 Nits at equivalent power consumption as the 450 Nits being delivered with the white subpixels.

Has anyone measured full-field sustained peak brightness with Peak Luminance OFF?

I'm curious to understand whether Peak Luminance OFF transforms a 2019 WOLED into an RGB OLED able to deliver plasma-like color accuracy at plasma-like brightness levels of 120-150 Nits...
The W-subpixel can't be turned off, this is not only affecting the color volume, but the resolution also:


Viewing content with 4K RGB panel will always look more detailed compared to 4K WRGB panel.

For 150 nits in SDR mode, it will not have any ABL peak output limiter, for sure you will be able to get 150 nits in full field, this is happening already with 2017/2018 models.

Its been measured from LG @ CES 2019 with Klein K-10A the peak output with W-Boost setting @ OFF, and the panel measured a calibrated 100% White patch with 400-450 nits.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #103 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 02:19 AM
Senior Member
 
venkatesh_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The W-subpixel can't be turned off, this is not only affecting the color volume, but the resolution also:

Viewing content with 4K RGB panel will always look more detailed compared to 4K WRGB panel.

For 150 nits in SDR mode, it will not have any ABL peak output limiter, for sure you will be able to get 150 nits in full field, this is happening already with 2017/2018 models.

Its been measured from LG @ CES 2019 with Klein K-10A the peak output with W-Boost setting @ OFF, and the panel measured a calibrated 100% White patch with 400-450 nits.
Does this mean that for 2019 LG panels you can actually fully turn off the white subpixel in the user menu?

Sent from my ALP-L29 using Tapatalk
venkatesh_m is offline  
post #104 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 02:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
BlackJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 520
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
Liked: 399
Just read carefully like already said the only thing which can be disabled is the boost of the white subpixel for HDR mode. The panel will always be WRGB and even with the white subpixel boost "off" the picture contains a white subpixel. The panel is and always be a non addititive
venkatesh_m, jrref and Menarini like this.

TV: LG OLED 65C8 Sources: Apple TV 4K, OPPO UDP-203 Video Processor: TruVue eeColor
Probe: Klein K10-A, i1 Display Pro OEM Rev.B (2018), i1Pro2 OEM Rev.E Software: Lightspace HTP, Calman 2019 Ultimate
BlackJoker is offline  
post #105 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 02:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
Does this mean that for 2019 LG panels you can actually fully turn off the white subpixel in the user menu?
No, you can't disable the entire W-subpixel, you can only control how much its will boost the peak output.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57772318

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57772486

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
Just read carefully like already said the only thing which can be disabled is the boost of the white subpixel for HDR mode. The panel will always be WRGB and even with the white subpixel boost "off" the picture contains a white subpixel. The panel is and always be a non addititive
Completely correct.
venkatesh_m and BlackJoker like this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #106 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 02:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 69
The panel is non addititive, so you can’t create different gamma lut from one measure, like some are telling here.

Panasonic OLED55FZW 804
i1 Display Pro OEM 2018 profiled by Jeti 1501
i1 Pro 2, DVDo AVLab TPG, HD Fury Integral
Oppo UDP203
baller02 is online now  
post #107 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 03:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
The panel is non addititive, so you can’t create different gamma lut from one measure, like some are telling here.
With LightSpace you can indeed generate different gamma LUTs from a single profile set, even though the TV is non-additive - so long as you do not change the TV's preset.

The profile set will need to be a full volumetric data set, not just grey scale.
And as said, you must not adjust the TVs presets - peak white for example.

We are actually working hard on new profiling options that will (should!) work better on displays such as WOLEDs, with smaller profile sets.

This development is in partnership with FSI, who make the only viable professional WOLED displays.

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #108 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 03:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
The panel is non addititive, so you can’t create different gamma lut from one measure, like some are telling here.
Incorrect (you are taking about that post as reference), there some thousand users which are using LG WRGB via 3D LUT SDR (using external LUT Box) from 2015 models till now with success, from one measurement run, you can generate as much different gamut/white point/gamma values you like.

When you measure for 1D LUT generation, using internal LUT capabilities, you are measuring native panel 10000K color temp 2.2 gamma based, there no option to measure different color temp, since all menu's settings are bypassed (about color temp/gamma/RGB Balance adjustments). So based to these measurements you can generate whatever gamma target exponent value (or custom white point) you want, talking for procedure about 2018 OLED's using LightSpace.

CalMAN is not doing this, since it's performing manual cal in automated way (AutoCAL of 1D LUT) one point at a time, real-time, using guesswork, so to have different target gamma/white point, you have to start a new AutoCAL again.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #109 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 04:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 69
You can do it but if you measure the gamma it will be not on target like creating lut for each gamma with own measurings.

Panasonic OLED55FZW 804
i1 Display Pro OEM 2018 profiled by Jeti 1501
i1 Pro 2, DVDo AVLab TPG, HD Fury Integral
Oppo UDP203

Last edited by baller02; 03-21-2019 at 04:39 AM.
baller02 is online now  
post #110 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 04:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
You can do it but if you measure the gamma it will be not on target like creating lut for each gamma with own measurings.
1) You don't have 2018 LG OLED.

2) You don't have Device Control with LG Template to test.

Its pointless without all these to talk.

See there the procedure: https://www.lightillusion.com/devicecontrol_manual.html

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 03-21-2019 at 04:48 AM.
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #111 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 05:27 AM
Newbie
 
Ger Teunis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 2
@jrref would you be able to make a macro shot of the subpixels? Wondering if the "new" subpixel structure made it in the production versions. Larger red subpixel was reported before.
Ger Teunis is offline  
post #112 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 05:37 AM
Newbie
 
Ger Teunis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ger Teunis View Post
@jrref would you be able to make a macro shot of the subpixels? Wondering if the "new" subpixel structure made it in the production versions. Larger red subpixel was reported before.
Source: https://www.lesnumeriques.com/tv-tel...ed-n82391.html
(Google translate: https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...ed-n82391.html)
Ger Teunis is offline  
post #113 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 06:08 AM
Senior Member
 
bjaurelio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 90
I think I am coming to understand a little more about display calibration. I am trying to find out what I would need to be able to calibrate my own C9 that I plan to purchase this summer. Accurately measuring color from a display appears to be a much more complex process than measuring frequency response from a speaker.

1) colorimeters come with a calibration at the factory loaded into the memory of the device iteself
2) that calibration loses its accuracy over time because colorimeters experience drift over time
3) EDRs are not calibration, but separate adjustment tables for different display types required to be used with the device's calibration for a colorimeter to have an accurate reading
4) EDRs are part of the calibration software. Depending on the software, its EDRs may be available only to specific colorimeters
5) the best way to ensure your colorimeter readings are accurate is to ignore EDRs and use a spectrophotometer to create a separate table that is valid for your colorimeter and that display only.
6) based on 5, a spectrophotometer must be more accurate than a colorimeter and not experience drift over time
7) if 6 is true, why not use a spectrophotometer for the calibration instead of a colorimeter?
bjaurelio is offline  
post #114 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 06:15 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 11,415
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3836 Post(s)
Liked: 3774
2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
I think I am coming to understand a little more about display calibration. I am trying to find out what I would need to be able to calibrate my own C9 that I plan to purchase this summer. Accurately measuring color from a display appears to be a much more complex process than measuring frequency response from a speaker.



1) colorimeters come with a calibration at the factory loaded into the memory of the device iteself

2) that calibration loses its accuracy over time because colorimeters experience drift over time

3) EDRs are not calibration, but separate adjustment tables for different display types required to be used with the device's calibration for a colorimeter to have an accurate reading

4) EDRs are part of the calibration software. Depending on the software, its EDRs may be available only to specific colorimeters

5) the best way to ensure your colorimeter readings are accurate is to ignore EDRs and use a spectrophotometer to create a separate table that is valid for your colorimeter and that display only.

6) based on 5, a spectrophotometer must be more accurate than a colorimeter and not experience drift over time

7) if 6 is true, why not use a spectrophotometer for the calibration instead of a colorimeter?


Spectros are generally slower and are not accurate for darker measurements. So the ideal solution is to profile a colorimeter with a spectro so you have accuracy and speed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jrref likes this.

LG 77C8
LG 55B7A
DirectTV/ ATV4k/Panasonic UB820/Sony Z9F Soundbar
Calman Enthusiast, Lightspace, C6 HDR 2000 I1Pro2
chunon is online now  
post #115 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 09:06 AM
Member
 
grizzledyoungman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 12
This thread is amazing. Looking forward to the C9. Question: are there useful guides or starting points for calibrating an i1D3 OEM with an i1Pro2 spectrometer? Perhaps someone in the NYC Metro area who offers this as a service? Calman + AutoCal + a profiled i1D3 OEM sounds like the solution for me - just wondering how to get the latter profiled cost effectively.
grizzledyoungman is offline  
post #116 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 5,426
Mentioned: 193 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4469 Post(s)
Liked: 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzledyoungman View Post
This thread is amazing. Looking forward to the C9. Question: are there useful guides or starting points for calibrating an i1D3 OEM with an i1Pro2 spectrometer? Perhaps someone in the NYC Metro area who offers this as a service? Calman + AutoCal + a profiled i1D3 OEM sounds like the solution for me - just wondering how to get the latter profiled cost effectively.
Depending on where you are in the NYC area I can provide the profiling service. PM me.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is online now  
post #117 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 11:52 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4876
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The W-subpixel can't be turned off, this is not only affecting the color volume, but the resolution also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfIn5O-4hJU

Viewing content with 4K RGB panel will always look more detailed compared to 4K WRGB panel.
No questions about resolution. Understand.


Quote:
For 150 nits in SDR mode, it will not have any ABL peak output limiter, for sure you will be able to get 150 nits in full field, this is happening already with 2017/2018 models.

Its been measured from LG @ CES 2019 with Klein K-10A the peak output with W-Boost setting @ OFF, and the panel measured a calibrated 100% White patch with 400-450 nits.
Assuming ABL limits are established to limit power consumption and heat, 400-450 Nits of full-field white is not possible without the white subpixel (as you've been stating).

If we assume sustained full-field white is using all 4 subpixels near max, 1/2 the output lumens and 1/4 of the power consumption is through the white subpixel, while 1/6th the output lumens and 1/4 of the power consumption is through each of the 3 colored subpixels.

If you cut off the white subpixel, power consumption drops by 25% but light output drops by half. Since you are 25% below the power consumption limit that was intended to trigger ABL, you should be able to increase output of each of the colored subpixels by 33% to get the same power consumption you had when the white subpixel was active to achieve slightly increased output levels of 67% instead of 50% (without any contribution from the white subpixel).

But that means full-field peak white output cannot exceed 100 Nits if the white subpixel is innactve (without overheating).

Once we have these 2019 WOLEDs in the wild, it would be interesting for someone to measure peak output levels and take subpixel macros at the various Whiteboost settings...
mrtickleuk likes this.
fafrd is online now  
post #118 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 03:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
So you reversed engineered another thing huh? (EDRs)
You can see some roots of reverse engineering there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57783820

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #119 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 04:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,362
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3239 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Assuming ABL limits are established to limit power consumption and heat, 400-450 Nits of full-field white is not possible without the white subpixel (as you've been stating).
400-450 nits were possible with calibrated to D65 100% White window patch with 10% Window size, not full field.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #120 of 733 Old 03-21-2019, 09:01 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 4876
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
400-450 nits were possible with calibrated to D65 100% White window patch with 10% Window size, not full field.
That makes sense. 10% window measures ~900 nits with white suboixel on, so shutting white subpixels off cuts lumens in half and power by 25%, meaning 450 cd/m2. In fact, if LG wanted to be aggressive, they could have used that power savings to drive the colored subpixels 33% harder to deliver ~600 nits in RGB mode...
fafrd is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off