2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I’ve just completed a 17 Point Fixed grid with the latest release. Initial impressions, using LightSpace Cube viewer confirm there are there are no “Shark Fins” present for me.
Post Cal Colour Checker scans report “reasonable results”, although not as good as you would wish for.
Currently running a 1000 point verification profile, and will report my findings later.
Are you using the LG iTPG?

Also from my testing, with CM you need to find a "reasonable" pattern insertion formula to keep the panel from drifting which will give you better results. Also a better meter like a Klein will read faster, especially in the dark ire's helping this problem with the OLEDs. You can get great results with a C6 or a i1D3 but I'm getting noticeably better results with my Klein when comparing so some of the improvement is probably due to the speed when reading the patches since they are on the screen for less time.

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post #1232 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Are you using the LG iTPG?

Also from my testing, with CM you need to find a "reasonable" pattern insertion formula to keep the panel from drifting which will give you better results. Also a better meter like a Klein will read faster, especially in the dark ire's helping this problem with the OLEDs. You can get great results with a C6 or a i1D3 but I'm getting noticeably better results with my Klein when comparing so some of the improvement is probably due to the speed when reading the patches since they are on the screen for less time.
I’m using an i1d3 OEM profiled to an i1 Pro 2. I am also using The RPi PGenerator and not the Internal Pattern Generator, for reasons I will explain later. Also, I am not using the default pattern insertion, I am using a 0% patch for 5 seconds inserted every 15 seconds. 17 point fixed grid took over 4 hours using this equipment with those settings.
I will report in more detail later once the verification is complete and my 2 year old grandson stops hanging off of my ankles and goes home.
Leon
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post #1233 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did testing yesterday and am going to test RC1 this morning. RC1 has bug fixes.

[...]
2) Make sure you turn off pixel shift and that image retention setting below it, (i forget the name right now) to OFF in the advance panel settings for the PM you are calibrating and if you can go into the service menu, turn off the ABL, OLED/#13 set to OFF during the calibration.
Great that RC1 has some fixes. May give it a try if Xmas chaos allows.

I have never turned off "pixel shift" for any calibration. That doesn't affect luminance surely.

Turn off ASBL and Logo Luminance Adjustment yes, turn off Dynamic Contrast and all the processing-y settings sure.

But Pixel Shift?! It moves the picture, nothing else.

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post #1234 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Personally, this is what I think may be happening in your case:
1) Make sure you are using a relatively short pattern insertion, try 15 or 30/5/15, it will take longer with your meter to complete the process but it's possible your panel is drifting.
2) Make sure you turn off pixel shift and that image retention setting below it, (i forget the name right now) to OFF in the advance panel settings for the PM you are calibrating and if you can go into the service menu, turn off the ABL, OLED/#13 set to OFF during the calibration.
3) Use Raw XYZ with your meter.
4) Use your meter in contact mode for a test if you are not already doing this. I'm not sure of the environment you are calibrating in but try calibrating in dark or near dark and if this can't be done make sure you aren't getting room reflections hitting the screen. You can use black cloth to cover the screen if you calibrate during the day in a lit room.
1) Those last two Fixed Grid measurements done as liberator72 wrote, 0% patch for 5 seconds inserted every 15 seconds.
2) All off and also ASBL turned off
3) Maby try that next time
4) Contact yes without USB-extension, no anykind of reflections

Those "shark fins" (which seem to be new term for calibrating community ) was there also with my prev meter, i1 Display Pro retail.

I´m going now to get my Raspberry for PGenerator, so maby when I have some time I could also try it with CM instead of iTPG.

Now I´m going to take some more learning with LS and try to make first 3D LUT run with it.

And about customer support...yes I understand it´s possible that they don´t know what´s wrong but it would be fair to say it or at least give some suggestions to try play with settings, software and TV.
Giving moneys back is not best solution, however that´s also nice offer.
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post #1235 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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@Make73 , good to hear so in order to test correctly, once you get your PGenerator working, do a run with CM then with LS and without doing any LUT manipulation in LS, see what they both look like. It will be interesting. Then of course do the due diligence to make it perfect then you will be done and can start watching your TV.
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post #1236 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Great that RC1 has some fixes. May give it a try if Xmas chaos allows.

I have never turned off "pixel shift" for any calibration. That doesn't affect luminance surely.

Turn off ASBL and Logo Luminance Adjustment yes, turn off Dynamic Contrast and all the processing-y settings sure.

But Pixel Shift?! It moves the picture, nothing else.
I never used to turn it off but as I said, I like to remove as many variables as possible. I have no idea what might happen if a shift occurs simultaneously with a read.
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post #1237 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
@Make73 , good to hear so in order to test correctly, once you get your PGenerator working, do a run with CM then with LS and without doing any LUT manipulation in LS, see what they both look like. It will be interesting. Then of course do the due diligence to make it perfect then you will be done and can start watching your TV.
FYI. LUT manipulation is not possible in LightSpace HTL, unless something has changed recently
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post #1238 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 01:56 PM
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After trying and failing to calibrate with CalMan Home for LG using the new 17 Point Fixed Grid method that was introduced in the last Beta, with the release of the latest R3 RC1, I thought I'd try again.

Coincidentally, the panel on my LG OLED65C9MLB (UK Model) reached 300 hours usage time yesterday (replacement TV, appox a month ago), and because of this, I had just finished performing a new 3D LUT generation using LightSpace early this morning (UK GMT) when I noticed that the new R3 RC1 had been released. So it was a great time to do a run with CalMan and compare the two and see how they hold up to each other. Interstingly, I haven't suffered from any of the issues reported by some recently. The only issue I had last week was during the Beta when the LUT actually failed to generate, which I reported to Portrait and which seems to have been fixed quickly. Beta testing and feedback working as intended, so props for that!

As a LightSpace user, I have to say in all honesty, I much prefer to use that software personally, and I will continue to do so. But the following is a completely unbiased opinion from, what I would describe myself as being, a novice calibrator. I want to say now though, this is not a CalMan bashing post. Actually far from it!

Quick spoiler. The LUT generated by LightSpace (as expected) is better than that of CalMan. BUT That doesn't mean the CalMan LUT is bad. Initial comparissons show little difference, although I am yet to view proper gradient patterns and a substantial amount of real content. I have noticed some subtle differences between the two where LightSpace definitely seems to come out on top. But whether the average viewer would notice without looking for them is debatable.

As I had just finished performing a profile/LUT from LightSpace, my meters/generator were still set-up and connected. So you can be sure that meter placement, enviroment, settings, and anything else you could think of was exactly the same for both profiles. I even used the Four Color Matrix Tool from the Portrait installation folder to import the exact same Probe Match profile from LightSpace to CalMan (which I had already verified was a good correction) so as to replicate the way patches were read as closely as possible. I used RPi PGenerator for patch generation for both profiles, with patch scales replicated across both software, and for pattern insertion I had to use a compromise to match between the two. LightSpace uses a full black patch between colour patches, CalMan uses a time based insertion. For LightSpace I use 0.35 seconds insertion between patches (recommended value for OLED), with is 1/3 a second (approx). For CalMan I used a 0% black, for 5 seconds inserted every 15 seconds (which again is 1/3 value). My meter is iDisplay Pro OEM, matched to an i1 Pro 2. My meter is mounted on a boom mic stand and is used in non contact mode and hadn't been moved, so the exact same placement for both runs. The Service Menu White Balance GAIN was pre calibrated with OLED Light 27 to D65 @ 123 nits with a 255.255.255 109% White.


For the LightSpace profile I had used ISF Dark Room, so I matched setting across to ISF Bright Room for the CalMan run as these two Picture Modes are identical except the are pre-set differently for dark/bright enviroments.

Basically, anything and everything was replicated to ensure as fair a comparisson as could be. One caveat is the fact that I haven't tried this by using the LG iTPG. All things being equal, there shouldn't be any difference using the LG internal patterns, but I guess it could produce differt results. I have no technical understanding of how the iTPG works, that will be for others far more knowledgable than I to decide or debate.

The screencaptures attached below show the 1D LUT completion screen, the 3D LUT completion screen and the Pre/Post Calibration screen from CalMan. The rest of the screens are from LightSpace. 3D LUT Cube Viewer screens for both the LS, and CM generated LUT's, and it will be fairly obvious which is which when viewing these. There is then a series of comparison screens using a CIE chart with filters applied to show dE ranges from 0-0.5/0.5-1.0/1.0-1.5/1.5-2.0/2.0-2.5. The final screen shows a data comparisson of the the two LUT's, with LS on the left and CM on the right.

Both Picture Modes, ISF Dark/Bright have all image processing off, and OLED Light 27. The difference in luminance, I guess, is due to the fact that with the LightSpace method, you skip the 1D LUT entirely and everything is corrected within the 3D LUT. CalMan does both a 1D & 3D LUT.

As you will see, CalMan results are more than acceptable. Are they as good as LightSpace? Not at all. Time will tell as to whether I can actually see this is content over time, and I will be checking.

Bearing in mind that I am only using consumer level home enthusiast equipment, LightSpace gives outstanding results that are repeatable time and again, and this has confirmed that it will remain the software of choice for me to do SDR 3D LUT's. But CalMan Home for LG, in my unscientific test with what can be described as budget meters, gives pretty decent results that should be acceptable to most.

Pro's with High end gear may well be able to squeeze more out of CalMan. I don't think I would be able to though.

I've tried to be as unbiased as possible, and hope some of this info helps others.

Leon
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post #1239 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 03:21 PM
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Thankyou for that, and for going to such length to match the conditions for each!

Good to see that there are no traces at all of any "shark fins" or other anomalies on either cubes.

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post #1240 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Thankyou for that, and for going to such length to match the conditions for each!

Good to see that there are no traces at all of any "shark fins" or other anomalies on either cubes.
To be honest, I am always extremely meticulous during set-up anyway. Meter positioning patterns, tape measures, and my boom mic stand adapter for my meter has a level bubble built in, etc. It was just convienient that just as I had finished the LS LUT upload, I noticed the new R3 RC1 had been released, so everything was already set-up exactly as it was anyway. The most effort I had to go to was to import the meter correction, as it involves a bit of copy/pasting. The rest was just making sure settings in CalMan matched those from LightSpace as close as possible.
I've tried a couple gradient patterns now, and a couple of potential "problem scenes". I do see some issues in these real scenes but I've played them because I know they will show problems. There is some slight banding and posterization in shadows and dark detail. Gradient patterns do show some minor banding issues. Neither of these are enough to throw my toys out of the pram about though.
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post #1241 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
To be honest, I am always extremely meticulous during set-up anyway. Meter positioning patterns, tape measures, and my boom mic stand adapter for my meter has a level bubble built in, etc. It was just convienient that just as I had finished the LS LUT upload, I noticed the new R3 RC1 had been released, so everything was already set-up exactly as it was anyway. The most effort I had to go to was to import the meter correction, as it involves a bit of copy/pasting. The rest was just making sure settings in CalMan matched those from LightSpace as close as possible.
I've tried a couple gradient patterns now, and a couple of potential "problem scenes". I do see some issues in these real scenes but I've played them because I know they will show problems. There is some slight banding and posterization in shadows and dark detail. Gradient patterns do show some minor banding issues. Neither of these are enough to throw my toys out of the pram about though.
Yes, setup is extremely important. It takes me no less than 30 mins here to setup 1 meter. OCD and proud
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post #1242 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
I really hoped that 4913 Fixed Grid, removing USB extension and using safe pattern insertion times could help to produce properly 3D LUT, but when looked more real content and test patterns I can notice artifacts (just like Ted´s analyse shows) what are not there when used Lightning LUT.

Tylers words " "I saw nothing like this with my testing. There has to be some configuration issue here. We inspected the LUTs in MatLab in 3D point clouds."
did not give more hope for my case.
I posted also earlier my 3dl and cpfx files for them to examine if there could be something wrong with my settings etc.
Only answer was that I should use Lighning LUT, so if they would like to solve this it would be nice to hear something like..."You could try change your setting to xxx and try again, and if that not help maby you could try xxx..."
Instead of that they said there is problems with OLEDs but that don´t mean software is not ready, they may just improve it in future.

145$ is not so much of money but when expected to get as accurate 3D LUT what with amateur equipments can produce, somehow I feel little cheated. I readed all text on PD webpage before lauch order button.

It´s not late to fix things, but what I heard these problems didn´t appeared in last months, those been there however CalMAN Post measure look like it just superb, like with my case.

I´m sorry if I sound rude, there´s no mean to be impolite but by closing eyes do not give better results either.
Talking straight without pink glasses (and brown tongue) is how I used to do


We found the problem with your set up based on your profile file. You were using APL 25 test patterns. We only recommend 10% non-APL test patterns. All the CalMAN Home workflows default to that for LG.

That was the cause of your shark fins.
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post #1243 of 1531 Old 12-20-2019, 11:57 PM
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We found the problem with your set up based on your profile file. You were using APL 25 test patterns. We only recommend 10% non-APL test patterns. All the CalMAN Home workflows default to that for LG.

That was the cause of your shark fins.
Thanks for your reply and that you really examined my files

Really
I followed your quide exactly and every time set it to 10% as your walkthrough and video says.

Do I have to change pattern from CalMAN settings because I never have changed those, so if those are wrong it´s by default.

But it´s just great thing if you found solution, however I feel real stupid if that´s the case

I bought LS and Raspberry for PGenerator because of that problem...well, I think there´s room for both.

I´m going to do some (re-)calibrations today and tomorrow, first one is going to be with LS, after that check again with CM.

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post #1244 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 12:58 AM
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Hi Leon,
thanks for sharing your experiences with us. Below you can see the results summary of my Excel spreadsheet:

Your CALMAN 3DLUT:


Your LIGHTSPACE 3DLUT:


I cannot really see any consistent improvement in CalMAN 3DLUT engine, but it has to be said that those BIG issues that afflicted it from the beginning (finally) look solved. It still lacks of accuracy (lots of colors above dE 1.5+) and smoothness (there’s still presence of artifacts and banding). LightSpace and DisplayCal are still superior.

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post #1245 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
@Make73 , good to hear so in order to test correctly, once you get your PGenerator working, do a run with CM then with LS and without doing any LUT manipulation in LS, see what they both look like. It will be interesting. Then of course do the due diligence to make it perfect then you will be done and can start watching your TV.
John, what do you mean exactly with LUT manipulation?

Anyway, I confirm that LightSpace HTL has no “LUT manipulation” features and there’s no need to use any. It’s already perfect.
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T.U.C. Master | TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | AV Receiver: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, CM Enthusiast, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: Klein K10-A, Jeti spectraval 1501, X-Rite i1 Pro 2 OEM, X-Rite i1 Display Pro OEM Rev. B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG

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post #1246 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Hi Leon,
thanks for sharing your experiences with us. Below you can see the results summary of my Excel spreadsheet:

Your CALMAN 3DLUT:


Your LIGHTSPACE 3DLUT:


I cannot really see any consistent improvement in CalMAN 3DLUT engine, but it has to be said that those BIG issues that afflicted it from the beginning (finally) look solved. It still lacks of accuracy (lots of colors above dE 1.5+) and smoothness (there’s still presence of artifacts and banding). LightSpace and DisplayCal are still superior.
Miki,

Thank you for putting the results through your analysis tool, it really is quite brilliant!!

Yes as you say, presence of artifacts and banding are visible in the CM LUT, and this is confirmed when viewing relevant patterns and some content. Using the Picture mode with the LS LUT, none of these are visible at all.

The LS is indeed far superior, and in my opinion and with my admittedly limited knowledge on the subject, I can only sumise that this is down to both the flexibility of LS, and the method with which you guys came up with to profile these OLED's.

All in all though, from what I can tell, if you want to use AutoCal to calibrate and get a fairly accurate picture on your TV. CalMan is going to work reasonably well provided you ensure you set everything up right and don't just plug your meter in, click next and hope for the best.

But if you crave accuracy and are willing to put a little time into learning at least the fundamental basics behind calibration, then LightSpace is indeed far superior and this is undenyable.

Leon
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post #1247 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We found the problem with your set up based on your profile file. You were using APL 25 test patterns. We only recommend 10% non-APL test patterns. All the CalMAN Home workflows default to that for LG.

That was the cause of your shark fins.
I started with CalMAN.

I feel stupid, however those APL patterns are set by default to LG AutoCal workflow.
When you correct workflow, could you also add Pattern Insertion setup to workflow window like it was at last year?

Just re-calibrated Fixed Grid with 729p, SDR 100nits.
Everything else was like before, just corrected 10% non-APL size for patterns. Also used Cinema preset instead of isf Dark.
Used Pattern Insertion 0% for 5 seconds at every 30 seconds.
Also upgraded to latest R3 RC1 before calibration.
Files are included so maby You could check those again.

Fixed workflow (.cwfx) file: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmJitHy1KlXgjHUhgN1yPuL_T552?e=N2p2hb







So not any better than before.
I think it´s time to try what LightSpace can do for my set...
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post #1248 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 03:55 AM
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The only difference between you're and other setups is the TPG. So it seems that the iTPG causing those stra he anomaly for the cube.

DVDO, VFP or RPI are not causing these shark fins.
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post #1249 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 04:02 AM
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The only difference between you're and other setups is the TPG. So it seems that the iTPG causing those stra he anomaly for the cube.

DVDO, VFP or RPI are not causing these shark fins.
Can I use PGenerator with CalMAN Home for LG?
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post #1250 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 04:03 AM
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Yes that should work.
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post #1251 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 04:06 AM
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Yes that should work.
I´ll try it later today or tomorrow.
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post #1252 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 04:34 AM
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The only difference between you're and other setups is the TPG. So it seems that the iTPG causing those stra he anomaly for the cube.

DVDO, VFP or RPI are not causing these shark fins.
I did wonder about this???

Whilst I am not prepared at this moment to waste another 4 1/2 hours to perform a 17 Point Fixed Grid profile, if anyone is interested and if it is off help to some, then I could run the smaller 9 Point Grid with the iTPG to see if these "Shark Fins" appear for me. As can be seen in my posts from yesterday, nothing else in the way I set up, and with the equipment I use is causing them for me. So could that help to narrow things down?

Leon
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post #1253 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 05:18 AM
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Thanks Leon, but I guess it would be much more useful if someone with a 2019 LG OLED could run a 17p with the iTPG. You are the best candidate Leon, as you already ran the same calibration with an external TPG. But if you don’t have the time right now I sincerely understand you. I’ll wait. Surely that would be helpful for LG to eventually correct any iTPG related issue or for other users to better tune their settings if you won’t have some modern art cube
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post #1254 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 05:36 AM
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Thanks Leon, but I guess it would be much more useful if someone with a 2019 LG OLED could run a 17p with the iTPG. You are the best candidate Leon, as you already ran the same calibration with an external TPG. But if you don’t have the time right now I sincerely understand you. I’ll wait. Surely that would be helpful for LG to eventually correct any iTPG related issue or for other users to better tune their settings if you won’t have some modern art cube
Well, considering you asked so nicely, I guess I could make some time over the next couple days to give it a go

It is the least I can do considering the amount of testing some of you guys did with the LightSpace method

I currently have the following:

LightSpace 3D LUT loaded to ISF Dark Room

CalMan AutoCal and 3D LUT loaded to ISF Bright Room (with all settings from Dark Room applied)

So, if I ensure that all the relevant settings are applied in Cinema mode, am I safe to assume that all other processing should be the same, or as close as can be to the two ISF modes? This way I can have all three calibrations loaded at the same time and will thus make it easier to do any necessary comparisons.

Any feedback or advice you or any others can give before I proceed would be welcome.

Leon
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post #1255 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 06:08 AM
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I would load it to the Picture mode just before ISF bright, which is Technicolor expert for the C8.

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post #1256 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 06:15 AM
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I would load it to the Picture mode just before ISF bright, which is Technicolor expert for the C8.
Roger that....

If I can make some time this evening I will do it then, otherwise I will be able to do it tomorrow. Once complete I shall report back here

Leon
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post #1257 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I did wonder about this???

Whilst I am not prepared at this moment to waste another 4 1/2 hours to perform a 17 Point Fixed Grid profile, if anyone is interested and if it is off help to some, then I could run the smaller 9 Point Grid with the iTPG to see if these "Shark Fins" appear for me. As can be seen in my posts from yesterday, nothing else in the way I set up, and with the equipment I use is causing them for me. So could that help to narrow things down?

Leon
Leon, first I want to say, in addition to your posts, conversations with you show that you are a very quick learner and very objective in evaluating what you see. Hopefully you will be a "regular" on these forum. As D-Nice points out you need to be meticulous when calibrating to get consistent good results and you have got that special skill.

I ran a 9 point fixed grid 3D LUT yesterday on an E9 in the showroom with the latest LG firmware at the store and although I had to shoot through the plastic screen protector, my CM 3D LUT looks a little cleaner and less noisy on the edges than your 17 pt. using the LS cube viewer. I only see a small spike in yellow that we have seen in the past but much reduced with the new LUT. After our discussions, i'm wondering if LS "compensates" or their process is better in some way to overcome the limitations of the "consumer" meters vs pro meters. I'm not sure but I wasn't doing anything different than you except taking less readings. I'll try to post my LUT, just very busy and I would like to take a LUT without shooting through plastic in my normal controlled environment. From my limited testing with CM RC1, I can get a little better results in half the time using with the Fixed Grid LUT vs doing a comparably larger irp 3D LUT. So for example, I can do a 9 pt fixed grid in about half the time vs a 1,300 irp LUT and the fixed grid gives me a little better result but not perfect. The other thing that's puzzling, is after our discussion yesterday, I spent time critically evaluating content on the E9 I calibrated looking for near black issues and artifacts. Although I don't have a LS calibrated set to compare to, I'm not seeing any visible issues. Using Ted's color ramps I can still see some banding in the dark blue but it's "less" than before. "Less" meaning very difficult to see unless you are right up at the panel looking for it.

I guess it's a good year that LS is now coming out with CS and CM is improving. As you said and I always say, everyone has their own requirements, expectations, investment time, and budget so now there are solutions for everyone.
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post #1258 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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John, what do you mean exactly with LUT manipulation?

Anyway, I confirm that LightSpace HTL has no “LUT manipulation” features and there’s no need to use any. It’s already perfect.
Miki, I thought there was way in LS to manipulate the LUT to make corrections. I've seen on occasion it's possible to get a "mis-reading" from the meter for many reasons and I incorrectly thought there was a way to make a correction without re-taking the LUT.

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post #1259 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 07:53 AM
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Sure there are a lot of awesome choices in LS to get closer to the desired goal. Nothing that will make a cube look good when it’s not though. Anyway, LightSpace HTL, which is the enthusiast level version, doesn’t have those tools. Steve, generously, added the video scale - sub-black which is the only tool that could be useful for the few LG OLED owners who are forced to measure with 16-235 and CR85. But that’s not really a manipulation, just a level scaler. Just to get it easier for you to understand, it interpolates (not measured) points from 235 to 255 (940 - 1023). That’s all.
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post #1260 of 1531 Old 12-21-2019, 09:06 AM
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Leon, first I want to say, in addition to your posts, conversations with you show that you are a very quick learner and very objective in evaluating what you see.
Yeah, I’m a regular smart arse

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I ran a 9 point fixed grid 3D LUT yesterday on an E9 in the showroom with the latest LG firmware at the store and although I had to shoot through the plastic screen protector, my CM 3D LUT looks a little cleaner and less noisy on the edges than your 17 pt. using the LS cube viewer. I only see a small spike in yellow that we have seen in the past but much reduced with the new LUT. After our discussions, i'm wondering if LS "compensates" or their process is better in some way to overcome the limitations of the "consumer" meters vs pro meters. I'm not sure but I wasn't doing anything different than you except taking less readings. I'll try to post my LUT, just very busy and I would like to take a LUT without shooting through plastic in my normal controlled environment. From my limited testing with CM RC1, I can get a little better results in half the time using with the Fixed Grid LUT vs doing a comparably larger irp 3D LUT. So for example, I can do a 9 pt fixed grid in about half the time vs a 1,300 irp LUT and the fixed grid gives me a little better result but not perfect. The other thing that's puzzling, is after our discussion yesterday, I spent time critically evaluating content on the E9 I calibrated looking for near black issues and artifacts. Although I don't have a LS calibrated set to compare to, I'm not seeing any visible issues. Using Ted's color ramps I can still see some banding in the dark blue but it's "less" than before. "Less" meaning very difficult to see unless you are right up at the panel looking for it.
Since our discussion yesterday, I have indeed had more time to evaluate. In all honesty, I can see visible artifacts and banding. Both in evaluation patterns (Ted’s colour ramps, colour tunnels) mainly in blue, green areas but others too. In content, artifacts and banding are also visible when looking for it, but again I stress, not something I believe someone should be throwing their toys out of the pram about.

Let me stress, I am not on a CalMan bashing mission here, if anything, what I have posted until now has actually been of benefit to CalMan users as I have none of the issues others are complaining about. The CM vs LS LUT quality debate is for far more qualified persons than I.

Again, consumer level meter limitations apply to both sets of software.

I am currently running a 17 Point Fixed Grid using the iTPG as Miki has requested. Considering the amount of time and effort he (and others) have put into coming up with the ideal method using LightSpace, the least I could do to show my gratitude for their work is to free up some time and do this as he requested. Considering I have managed to achieve repeatable results with the equipment I have (which most other users here have also) time and again, then running the exact same setup with the only change being the iTPG should clarify once and for all whether using it is an issue.

Leon
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