2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk) - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I asked this on the Calman Home for LG thread and got no response so maybe I'll have better luck here.



What changes does the software such as Calman actually make to the C9 or other models. I know about contrast, brightness, OLED light, etc. but does it make changes to color, tint, etc.?


Are you referring to autocal or manual
Calibration ?



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post #1412 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzledyoungman View Post
Awesome! Thanks D-Nice. I'll try that out tonight with Calman Home. Should I use that custom white point for profiling the meter with a spectrometer as well? Or just calibration?
Just the calibration.
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post #1413 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Can that white point be used in Lightspace ? You said the 77” are fine at 6500 though ?


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Yes it can be used in LS. The 77" models don't need it. I'm still scratching my as to why.
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post #1414 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 05:39 PM
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2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Yes it can be used in LS. The 77" models don't need it. I'm still scratching my as to why.


That is strange hmmm thank you sir!


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post #1415 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 07:00 PM
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I found a place to rent an i1 Studio. Would this be good to profile?

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post #1416 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 07:47 PM
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2019 LG OLED Calibration and User Settings (No price talk)

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Originally Posted by EMINENT1 View Post
I found a place to rent an i1 Studio. Would this be good to profile?


It’s a Spectro so that is good but it has plastic filters that can degrade , I would be concerned about the accuracy unless it’s new.


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post #1417 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Yes it can be used in LS. The 77" models don't need it. I'm still scratching my as to why.
Have you tested with many units?
For my eyes D65 looks pretty same than with my previous 65C8.
I don´t have LCD/CRT where to compare and if I understood correctly it also depends by observer so there´s no one value which fit to all?!

With LightSpace after profiling you can convert it to whatever custom whitepoint without need to re-profile, great feature compared to CalMAN.
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post #1418 of 1459 Old 01-14-2020, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Have you tested with many units?
For my eyes D65 looks pretty same than with my previous 65C8.
I don´t have LCD/CRT where to compare and if I understood correctly it also depends by observer so there´s no one value which fit to all?!

With LightSpace after profiling you can convert it to whatever custom whitepoint without need to re-profile, great feature compared to CalMAN.


CalMAN supports re-targeting the 3D LUT to new target (white point, gamma , or gamut) using the .cpfx profile file.

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post #1419 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Are you referring to autocal or manual
Calibration ?

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Autocal

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post #1420 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
Autocal


Autocal adjusts white balance(1d lut) and color space 3D lut .


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post #1421 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
CalMAN supports re-targeting the 3D LUT to new target (white point, gamma , or gamut) using the .cpfx profile file.
How that happens with CalMAN Home for LG?

But since CalMAN 3D LUT (IR or fixed grid) causing such of problems what it does now, I can´t use it anyway.
PD support wrote few times that there´s nothing wrong with it, so I suppose I use LS also in future and no reason why I wouldn´t.
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post #1422 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
If you have a 55/65” model, x0.0309 y0.3290. Please note you will be stuck with D65 for DV on the LG because it is ‘hard coded’ to use it.



Hello D-Nice! Question: is x0.0309 actually the right coordinate? Should it actually be x0.3090/y0.3290? Since using that white point, Calman has been crashing during 3D LUT computation. Another user pointed out that "x0.0309/y0.3290 would put the target outside of CIE."


Thoughts?
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post #1423 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Have you tested with many units?
For my eyes D65 looks pretty same than with my previous 65C8.
I don´t have LCD/CRT where to compare and if I understood correctly it also depends by observer so there´s no one value which fit to all?!

With LightSpace after profiling you can convert it to whatever custom whitepoint without need to re-profile, great feature compared to CalMAN.
Yes I’ve tested this with many units.
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post #1424 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Yes I’ve tested this with many units.
Really interesting
Eeager to know why same coordinates of white looks different with 55/65 and 77 inches.
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post #1425 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzledyoungman View Post
Hello D-Nice! Question: is x0.0309 actually the right coordinate? Should it actually be x0.3090/y0.3290? Since using that white point, Calman has been crashing during 3D LUT computation. Another user pointed out that "x0.0309/y0.3290 would put the target outside of CIE."


Thoughts?
Typo. x0.309 y0.3290
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post #1426 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
so I suppose I use LS also in future and no reason why I wouldn´t.
Yes, and that's all fine, and we know you now use LS. I think it's because you said "you can convert it to whatever custom whitepoint without need to re-profile, great feature compared to CalMAN.", which implied that Calman did not have the same feature when actually, it does.

It's completely fair and acceptable for that to be corrected, and to help other Calman users who didn't know about it.

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post #1427 of 1459 Old 01-15-2020, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Yes, and that's all fine, and we know you now use LS. I think it's because you said "you can convert it to whatever custom whitepoint without need to re-profile, great feature compared to CalMAN.", which implied that Calman did not have the same feature when actually, it does.

It's completely fair and acceptable for that to be corrected, and to help other Calman users who didn't know about it.
Maby you could also tell how that happens with CalMAN Home for LG, that would be useful post.
Asked that already above but usually Tyler do not answer?
But yes if I was wrong, good to correct it.

Talking about weaknesses and bugs of CalMAN is also useful for all CalMAN users, but seems it´s somekind tabu here.
ConnecTEDDD even banned form CalMAN threads and that´s one reason why he is not here anymore.
He didn´t tell lies with his excellent and helpful posts.
Just to remind, I have quiet fresh license of CalMAN so I´m also paid customer and except somekind of customers service for faulty software.
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post #1428 of 1459 Old 01-16-2020, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
Maby you could also tell how that happens with CalMAN Home for LG, that would be useful post.
In the DisplayControl window, click "retarget 3DLUT from profile".



Important: I don't have "Calman Home for LG", I have the Enthusiast edition, so it might not be exactly the same. But I haven't heard anything about that feature being removed.

Quote:
Asked that already above but usually Tyler do not answer?
But yes if I was wrong, good to correct it.
All good
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post #1429 of 1459 Old 01-18-2020, 03:17 PM
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I just got my LG C9, this is my first time calibrating a tv so i have some questions:
do you guys think a i1d3 pro will be enough for gamma/3DLUT calibration?,
Is using the service menu for white balance pre calibration better than the user menu?

Does the 3DLUT also take care of correcting gamma, and also what's the most correct EDR/spectral correction file, i heard that the one in HFCR/lightspace was taken with Rec709 gamut emulation mode, or is that outdated info?


I tried to measure the whitepoint of warm2 using displaycal, and the WOLED correction but I'm unsure what observer i should use, if i use the juss vodd one then it reports 6100k 0.3dE in warm2, but even if it's closest to D65, to my eyes it looks greenish, and not really neutral, do i need to target a alternate whitepoint, i do have a PC monitor that has been used with a Spectraval 1511 CCSS correction file, so would visually matching the whitepoint be better?


Also for last i kinda want to try out lightspace software to create a 3DLUT with gamma correction but without white-point correction as most likely visually matching the whitepoint to my refernce monitor will be better in my case, what's usually the best configuration/settings in that case?


For the gamma calibration there's not really much i need to do, there's only that spike in near black that's at 2.5 gamma, and maybe bring the RGB balance even closer if possible.


The TV is relatively very new with probably less than 20 hours real screen time with most being a black background, i kinda want to have it professionally calibrated but i heard that the TV should be broken in to around 200-300 hours with actual content playing on it, so i thought i could probably do a DIY calibration before that.


The other thing is when calibrating what colorspace should i do it in, or does that not matter as depending if it's in pc mode, or if I'm sending RGB Full/limited, or ycbcr limited, i get more, or less banding with RGB full being the worst, and ycbcr limited 8 bit being the best (for some reason sending 4:2:2 10-12 bit has excessive banding).
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post #1430 of 1459 Old 01-19-2020, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanekiu View Post
I just got my LG C9, this is my first time calibrating a tv so i have some questions:
do you guys think a i1d3 pro will be enough for gamma/3DLUT calibration?,
Is using the service menu for white balance pre calibration better than the user menu?

Does the 3DLUT also take care of correcting gamma, and also what's the most correct EDR/spectral correction file, i heard that the one in HFCR/lightspace was taken with Rec709 gamut emulation mode, or is that outdated info?


I tried to measure the whitepoint of warm2 using displaycal, and the WOLED correction but I'm unsure what observer i should use, if i use the juss vodd one then it reports 6100k 0.3dE in warm2, but even if it's closest to D65, to my eyes it looks greenish, and not really neutral, do i need to target a alternate whitepoint, i do have a PC monitor that has been used with a Spectraval 1511 CCSS correction file, so would visually matching the whitepoint be better?


Also for last i kinda want to try out lightspace software to create a 3DLUT with gamma correction but without white-point correction as most likely visually matching the whitepoint to my refernce monitor will be better in my case, what's usually the best configuration/settings in that case?


For the gamma calibration there's not really much i need to do, there's only that spike in near black that's at 2.5 gamma, and maybe bring the RGB balance even closer if possible.


The TV is relatively very new with probably less than 20 hours real screen time with most being a black background, i kinda want to have it professionally calibrated but i heard that the TV should be broken in to around 200-300 hours with actual content playing on it, so i thought i could probably do a DIY calibration before that.


The other thing is when calibrating what colorspace should i do it in, or does that not matter as depending if it's in pc mode, or if I'm sending RGB Full/limited, or ycbcr limited, i get more, or less banding with RGB full being the worst, and ycbcr limited 8 bit being the best (for some reason sending 4:2:2 10-12 bit has excessive banding).
To be honest, if you really are planning on having it professionally calibrated at some point in the near future, then selecting one of the ISF modes, setting your OLED light to your preferred output and disabling all processing is going to give you a pretty good and fairly accurate image straight out of the box.

But based on your questions, hopefully some of the following will help.

The i1d3 is perfectly fine for calibrating OLED's. The WRGB OLED EDR that is currently floating around and being discussed a lot recently was created specifically for LightSpace but does apparently work across all the other software. I'm not sure if that is the one that has been added to HCFR, but it was created by X-Rite themselves using data supplied by FSI & Light Illusion. You can be assured that they would have done this correctly and anyone saying otherwise is spreading misinformation. If using it gives you a green tint to your whites then you may be better visually matching to achieve an alternate white point and measuring it's coordinates with the EDR in place. Or you could try the alternate white point that D-Nice has provided in these threads. You only have to look in the last 2 pages to find that, and with D-Nice being one of the most respected calibrators around, you can be certain that any advice he gives on the matter is true and accurate.

If you are determined to give it a go yourself first, although this is technically the 2019 LG OLED Calibration thread, it is primarily focused around using CalMAN software for calibrations. So if using CalMAN (with CalMAN Home being the cheapest license level), the Service Menu White Balance doesn't make any difference as during AutoCal the Full DDC Reset bypasses SM WB values during 1D LUT creation. You can use any alternate white point you like in setting the parameters at the beginning of the workflow.

Using LightSpace, there is some benefit to doing the SM WB first if you are skipping the 1D LUT, but it is not a requirement and I personally wouldn't recommend it to first time users anyway. I recently saw another post in the C9 thread of a user poking around in the SM where he accidentally changed something and screwed up the sound on his TV. You can use your alternate white point in generation of the LUT prior to upload to the TV, but for further LightSpace recommendations you'd be better served checking out this thread for more instructions. Be aware that you'd need a paid license there too for LUT generation. LightSpace HTL would fit your needs.

You could also use DisplayCAL for LUT creation, but I have never used that software so could not advise on how to proceed there.

All methods to calibrate will correct for White Balance, Gamma and Colour. The question of RGB Full/Limited vs YCbCr etc. is really dependant on what you will be using for pattern generation. Using the C9 iTPG this becomes a non issue as the patterns are generated internally and you set your pattern range within the software. Using the RPi PGenerator for example, you have to use RGB Full and use parameters in the software to decide the pattern range.

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post #1431 of 1459 Old 01-19-2020, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Yes it can be used in LS. The 77" models don't need it. I'm still scratching my as to why.
Wrong
All Narrow Bandwidth LED light based tvs today needs an custom white point to come close to reference white.
Reference here is Plasma tvs as you probably know already.
Thats the only tvs that can display correct looking 6500K Whites. (to the eye)

But for Narrow Bandwidth displays today they cant be calibrated to look exactly like an reference tv.
You need infrared light to get those deep saturated REDs and also those lifelike skintones.
What you are doing here is just to style an pig.

What you need to know here is that Natural light gives natural colors.
LED light is not an natural light source so why even bother with it when you only comes close to reference?

it seems that you should start to learn more how light works and how it affects colors as we sees them.
How the spectro sees the light is not important here.

Last edited by Bejas; 01-19-2020 at 10:54 AM.
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post #1432 of 1459 Old 01-19-2020, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Bejas View Post
Wrong
All Narrow Bandwidth LED light based tvs today needs an custom white point to come close to reference white.
Reference here is Plasma tvs as you probably know already.
Thats the only tvs that can display correct looking 6500K Whites. (to the eye)

But for Narrow Bandwidth displays today they cant be calibrated to look exactly like an reference tv.
You need infrared light to get those deep saturated REDs and also those lifelike skintones.
What you are doing here is just to style an pig.

What you need to know here is that Natural light gives natural colors.
LED light is not an natural light source so why even bother with it when you only comes close to reference?

it seems that you should start to learn more how light works and how it affects colors as we sees them.
How the spectro sees the light is not important here.
Learn how to use my 5nm PR670??? Are you kidding me. You know nothing about what I have nor what I do when it comes to visually matching any of my OLEDs to any of my Kuros. In other words ST*U.
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post #1433 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
If you have a 55/65” model, x0.309 y0.3290. Please note you will be stuck with D65 for DV on the LG because it is ‘hard coded’ to use it.
Is that the whitepoint I should use for when using the WRGB OLED EDR with i1D3? (If it's relevant, I have a 16.B Rev. B-02, 05/2016.)
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post #1434 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSP View Post
Is that the whitepoint I should use for when using the WRGB OLED EDR with i1D3? (If it's relevant, I have a 16.B Rev. B-02, 05/2016.)
The whitepoint can be used regardless of meter..... just like D65
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post #1435 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
lol

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post #1436 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
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The whitepoint can be used regardless of meter..... just like D65
I think you're right, but surely we all need to wait for Bejas to confirm it

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post #1437 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
i think you're right, but surely we all need to wait for bejas to confirm it
lmao
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post #1438 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 10:39 PM
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Did I say something funny? I have previously seen mentions that there are differences between different revisions, so I wanted to be safe. (Also, someone might have said "oh, you can't use that device, you'll get wrong results all across the board when calibrating a 2019 OLED", which would have been very useful information to have.)

In any case, the focus of my question was the use of the EDR. I couldn't find any info about whether that whitepoint is valid when using the WOLED EDR (from LightSpace), when using raw XYZ, or when using a spectro. So again: Is that whitepoint valid for use with the LightSpace WOLED EDR?
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post #1439 of 1459 Old 01-20-2020, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MiSP View Post
Did I say something funny? I have previously seen mentions that there are differences between different revisions, so I wanted to be safe. (Also, someone might have said "oh, you can't use that device, you'll get wrong results all across the board when calibrating a 2019 OLED", which would have been very useful information to have.)

In any case, the focus of my question was the use of the EDR. I couldn't find any info about whether that whitepoint is valid when using the WOLED EDR (from LightSpace), when using raw XYZ, or when using a spectro. So again: Is that whitepoint valid for use with the LightSpace WOLED EDR?
The EDR you speak of is perfectly fine to use with your probe, and the alternate white point can be used with any probe. Without a Spectro you'll have no way of knowing out accurately your specific probe is reading to that white point (or any other for that matter), with or without the EDR in place. So if you don't have a Spectro, you can either try and visually match yourself to find your own white point while the using the EDR, or try the one provided and see how it looks to you.

The follow up posts weren't directed at you, more toward the user that had the audacity to call out D-Nice and, of out of all the people on AVS, basically accuse him of not knowing what he was doing. That's not just funny, it's hilarious!!!
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post #1440 of 1459 Old 01-21-2020, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSP View Post
Did I say something funny? I have previously seen mentions that there are differences between different revisions, so I wanted to be safe. (Also, someone might have said "oh, you can't use that device, you'll get wrong results all across the board when calibrating a 2019 OLED", which would have been very useful information to have.)

In any case, the focus of my question was the use of the EDR. I couldn't find any info about whether that whitepoint is valid when using the WOLED EDR (from LightSpace), when using raw XYZ, or when using a spectro. So again: Is that whitepoint valid for use with the LightSpace WOLED EDR?
To amplify what @liberator72 has said, the white point is independent of meter type or EDR.
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