LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 223Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #361 of 396 Old 09-16-2019, 07:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gwgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
If Farthest Point patch sets really bring an improvement, we will add them to LightSpace.
Nothing to do with any other calibration system, as the concept is well know, and has been for years.
It's not FPS, it's OFPS - optimized in ways that (as far as I'm aware) has not been duplicated by anyone. It's one thing to talk about the concept, it's quite another to make something that works with an arbitrary number of samples, distributes them on the boundaries (rather than away from the boundaries), allows for existing fixed samples, works to optimize the distances in non-linearly related perceptual space, and (most importantly) balances distance and curvature metrics.
[ And while totally irrelevant for RGB displays, works with CMYK samples as well. ]

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter

Last edited by gwgill; 09-16-2019 at 07:24 PM.
gwgill is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 396 Old 09-16-2019, 11:01 PM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 3,258
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
That's interesting. By default targen will order display patches so as to minimize the change in color between the patches, so as to minimize any display settling time. This is probably opposite to an order that will minimize display auto power regulation effects. Unfortunately I don't have access to the types of displays that have this type of characteristic, so really haven't had the opportunity to develop algorithms to minimize such effects.

Sure - can you outline what your code attempts to do ? (Perhaps email me directly).
I'll ping you an email outside of here.
From what I can see this isn't auto-power regulation. All LEDs have the property that as they heat up both the amount of light they emit and the wavelength of that light changes, and this is what is happening here. So an ideal patch set would do two things:
1) Doesn't cause large swings in average power consumption of the display which will knock into relatively large swings of luminance and to a lesser extent colour shift.
2) mimic the average power consumption over time of the actual content the end user watches - if the patch sequence results in overly hot or cold screen area you'll end up correcting an image that doesn't match the real content's profile

I'm not attempting to address 2) but I'm surprised it hasn't actually got any attention from folk yet. I don't have an OLED display either but it is an obvious flaw when folk are scrabbling over half a dE, to also keep an eye on not profiling a false use case (unless you like watching patch sequences... some folk here do! )

For 1) I dealt with it in the script by:
1) Converting the patch values to estimate light output (more proportional to power) for a perfect gamma (2.2 was suggested to me as OLED starting point)
2) Making something up to estimate WRGB values from RGB. So I just assumed perfect mixing and that W is R + G + B. So W is (min (R,G,B) and R,G,B are now minus W. This leaves only 3 subpixels ever active (supposedly how these displays behave)
3) Working out for the patch sequence the average power
4) Taking each patch in the list, and trying to put it somewhere else in the list, looking for improvement in the rolling average of the list. (invented some metric for better).
5) Doing 3) until it seems the patch set doesn't get any better.

Anyway, the algo is basic as I understand the idea but my math / comp-sci fu is rusty.
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
bobof is offline  
post #363 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 12:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Yes, I shortened the name from "Farthest-Point Optimized Point Sets with Maximized Minimum Distance" to "Farthest Point".

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #364 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 12:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Quote:
Seems like it's a bit moot now that basICColor have gone under...
While the software side of BasiCColor has closed, the hardware side continues.
Delivery times are presently extended, but the DISCUS is still available.

https://www.lightillusion.com/discus.html

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #365 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 12:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
Anger.miki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonsocm View Post
One more question, it is curiosity.

I see the most of the calibration are SDR but those TVs (in theory) are designed for HDR. Is it technical problems?

I am thinking about buy the LG C9, Samsung Q90R or TCL X10 (8 in USA), I know it is a mess but the market looks a mess, actually. I want to be sure, I make the correct choice, I don't want to have to change the next year.

Thanks in advance.
Because HDR calibration will not get you anywhere near the reference with present LG OLED panels. You might get a decent grayscale, but colors will still be inaccurate. Probably even more inaccurate after calibration due to drift. I don't know about the other brand/model/tech you named but reference HDR black level is 0.005 and (AFAIK) no LCD is capable of that. Which brings us to the fact that consumer TVs are not real HDR capable. Let's say that they can display HDR contents.

I tried and the results weren't really near to what I would describe as a "profitable use of my time". That's why I'm not watching HDR/DV content. My eyes just refuse it.
fonsocm likes this.

TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | SintoAmp: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, Portrait Displays CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2018 R3, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: x-rite i1 Pro 2 - i1 Display Pro OEM B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG
Anger.miki is offline  
post #366 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 01:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Watch HDR on Panasonic Oled and you will like it. Looks natural and not unnatural like on LG Oleds.

Panasonic OLED55FZW 804
i1 Display Pro OEM 2018 profiled by Jeti 1501
i1 Pro 2, DVDo AVLab TPG, HD Fury Integral
Oppo UDP203
baller02 is offline  
post #367 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 03:56 AM
Member
 
fonsocm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by baller02 View Post
Watch HDR on Panasonic Oled and you will like it. Looks natural and not unnatural like on LG Oleds.

I had a Panasonic FZ800 OLED (not calibrated) and I prefered the content in 4K over 4K+HDR. The only benefit of HDR was more luminosity and I see the TV in a controlled environment with low lights.


One of the reasons about ask the calibration of HDR was the "disillusion" of FZ800 and the majority of the content comes with HDR: UHD, Netflix, Prime Video, ...


And it looks there is not a "good" HDR TV.


I am worried, very worried.
fonsocm is offline  
post #368 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 07:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
Anger.miki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 414
With an AppleTV 4K you can choose what dynamic range you like to use SDR/HDR. You can also use an AppleTV 4th gen or an Amazon Fire TV Stick 2K, those are not HDR at all.

TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | SintoAmp: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, Portrait Displays CalMAN Home Enthusiast 2018 R3, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: x-rite i1 Pro 2 - i1 Display Pro OEM B-02, basICColor DISCUS | Test Pattern Generator: DVDO AVLab TPG
Anger.miki is offline  
post #369 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 04:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
After hours of testing and uncountable profile sessions I created with the help of our Calibration group a final version of a OFPS based patchset which contains 33p grayscale points such as 33p RGBCMY on top 16p RGBCMY saturation and edge points. This set is non grid based like the screens show and it's working very good.

The LightSpace engine seems to like this set as you can see on the final results. I've never achieved better near black performance and color accuracy before. I also run a 56p grayscale and 5% Sweeps run and on top of that the 1000p profile verification. There is nothing you can do further I guess. I used CalMAN afterwards for cross verification for the LUT creation I used LightSpace.
It looks stunning. If you have time please could you post the results of Tedd's "6-point near black" page from https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56503386 ?

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #370 of 396 Old 09-17-2019, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gwgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
While the software side of BasiCColor has closed, the hardware side continues.
Delivery times are presently extended, but the DISCUS is still available.
The basiCColor website shows no information on, or availability of the DISCUS. So it's not exactly reassuring for a potential buyer that the manufacture appears to have gone out of business, and only distributors have stock.
Anger.miki likes this.

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter
gwgill is offline  
post #371 of 396 Old 09-18-2019, 12:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 779 Post(s)
Liked: 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
The basiCColor website shows no information on, or availability of the DISCUS. So it's not exactly reassuring for a potential buyer that the manufacture appears to have gone out of business, and only distributors have stock.
Why do you not contact the company directly for information, if you do not believe me?

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #372 of 396 Old 09-18-2019, 02:14 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
- WOLED optimized 10^3 patchset was used for pre-roll.


Can I get this somewhere?



I'm new to the forum, and have basic calibration knowledge but am not new to color. I'm a professional colorist and have an LG OLED C8 at home I'm trying to calibrate (for my own satisfaction) with results nowhere near what you guys are getting. I matched all the settings in the above post, warmed up the panel and the probe, etc but when converting to 709 color space I can't get anything better than about 75% within that color gamut. I feel the panel should do much better than that shouldn't it?


I've run calibration a couple of times a couple of different ways and just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'd appreciate any help.


I'm using Lightspace CMS and the i1 Display Pro OEM probe.


thanks
Chris Tomberlin is offline  
post #373 of 396 Old 09-18-2019, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Tomberlin View Post
- WOLED optimized 10^3 patchset was used for pre-roll.

Can I get this somewhere?

I'm new to the forum, and have basic calibration knowledge but am not new to color. I'm a professional colorist and have an LG OLED C8 at home I'm trying to calibrate (for my own satisfaction) with results nowhere near what you guys are getting. I matched all the settings in the above post, warmed up the panel and the probe, etc but when converting to 709 color space I can't get anything better than about 75% within that color gamut. I feel the panel should do much better than that shouldn't it?

I've run calibration a couple of times a couple of different ways and just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'd appreciate any help.

I'm using Lightspace CMS and the i1 Display Pro OEM probe.

thanks
Hi Chris,

Upload your profile data file (Manage Colour Spaces -> Export) using wetransfer.com for example and post the link, to take a look and see where is the problem.

Or contact me here, where I have upload file capability.

Post some more details about how you generate patterns and what levels are you using for patch generation, meter settings etc.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #374 of 396 Old 09-19-2019, 02:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Tomberlin View Post

I'm new to the forum, and have basic calibration knowledge but am not new to color. I'm a professional colorist and have an LG OLED C8 at home I'm trying to calibrate (for my own satisfaction) with results nowhere near what you guys are getting. I matched all the settings in the above post, warmed up the panel and the probe, etc but when converting to 709 color space I can't get anything better than about 75% within that color gamut. I feel the panel should do much better than that shouldn't it?

I've run calibration a couple of times a couple of different ways and just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'd appreciate any help.
Hi Chris,

There were syncing problems with your profile (and probably a level issue), these will be resolved by adding more extra delay time to the patch generation and by testing the levels to see if you will need patch scale to apply.





As those issues exist to the profile data, it will not able to provide any valid 3D LUT correction file generation.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #375 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 08:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by sat4all View Post
The guys behind this work didn't stop there, but they kept chasing perfection... the results are piece of art.

Profiling Steps:
- Before Profiling you should warm up your TV for at least 1 hour with normal content.
- Set TV Gamma to 2.2/Brightness 50/Contrast 85
- Skip 1DLUT
- Reset only 3DLUT slot using DCC
- TV Service Menu White Balance gain adjustment using 192 as a fixed data point for one of the RGB channels while reducing the two others, while displaying 100% grey 10% pattern window with the desired OLED Light for your target nit.

- LS Patch Scale 0-255 / GPU 0-255 RGB / madTPG 16-235 (10% window pattern) / TV Black Level: Low
How important is it to reset the 3DLUT before doing the Service Menu white balance? If I did the white balance and then reset the 3DLUT after, does it matter? TIA.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #376 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 10:41 AM
Member
 
Guz911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
How important is it to reset the 3DLUT before doing the Service Menu white balance? If I did the white balance and then reset the 3DLUT after, does it matter? TIA.


I’m not an expert but IMHO the 3DLUT also calibrates white point so it is smarter to reset it before doing any WP adjustments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mrtickleuk likes this.

S/W: LightSpace HTL, CalMAN Home for LG
P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG, VideoForge Pro
Meters: i1PRO2, SpectraCAL C6 HDR2000
TV: LG Oled 65 c8, chinoppo udp-203, himedia q10 pro
AVR: Denon x-4500 5.1.4, SVS Prime Satellite 5.1, RSL C34E
Guz911 is online now  
post #377 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
How important is it to reset the 3DLUT before doing the Service Menu white balance? If I did the white balance and then reset the 3DLUT after, does it matter? TIA.
When you reset 3D LUT, you bypass the colorspace mapping (which at default 'Auto', is mapping native panel -> REC.709).

So its better to do this reset first, as you want to perform White Balance based to your native primaries.

If you do first WB without reseting, then after reseting it will require re-adjustment of the WB.
mrtickleuk likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #378 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 12:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
3) When you reset the 1D LUT of TV from DeviceControl or CalMAN, there is a visible banding to the screen, at least to 4x 2018 OLED we have tested, to one was not visible.

To do that test, just display a grayscale ramp pattern before you will click to reset 1D LUT, when you will reset, you will see banding to the grayscale ramp, since with UNITY values it has banding, its impossible to use the internal 1D LUT table for calibration, at least for now.

So its better to not reset the 1D LUT table, do manual cal of 100% White using RGB-High and set Brightness to a value that is correct for the TV near black performance and then perform a 3D LUT, where inside to the 3D LUT it will contain 33-Point Grayscale also. Also when you take any measurement leave disabled the calibration from DeviceControl.
I had the opportunity to check mine for banding today, since I was planning anyway to replace the 1DLUT I did last week with a unity LUT.

I had banding with:
  1. my own last week's LUT,
  2. and the unity LUT,
  3. and the LG factory LUTs (in my other picture modes eg ISF Dark and Bright).

The banding was not bad but it was visible. I think it was about the same in all 3 cases. If anything, I would guess that the banding with the LG Factory LUT was slightly worse than the unity LUT!

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #379 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 12:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When you reset 3D LUT, you bypass the colorspace mapping (which at default 'Auto', is mapping native panel -> REC.709).

So its better to do this reset first, as you want to perform White Balance based to your native primaries.

If you do first WB without reseting, then after reseting it will require re-adjustment of the WB.
Thanks for the answer. My question stems on from that then, since the Service Menu White Balance (I mean the '12. White Balance' and only adjusting the High) affects all picture modes that share that temperature adjustment. Both the modes which use LG's 1DLUT and 3DLUT, and the picture modes that will use LG's 1DLUT and my replacement 3DLUT.

If I reset the 3DLUT in one picture mode, and then change the White Balance in that state, does that mean I am spoiling the end result in all the modes which use the LG 1DLUT and 3DLUT?

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #380 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Thanks for the answer. My question stems on from that then, since the Service Menu White Balance (I mean the '12. White Balance' and only adjusting the High) affects all picture modes that share that temperature adjustment. Both the modes which use LG's 1DLUT and 3DLUT, and the picture modes that will use LG's 1DLUT and my replacement 3DLUT.

If I reset the 3DLUT in one picture mode, and then change the White Balance in that state, does that mean I am spoiling the end result in all the modes which use the LG 1DLUT and 3DLUT?
The picture modes which will use custom or UNITY 1D LUT, they will bypass looking the adjustments you made to SM WB.

The picture modes you will to not send custom or UNITY 1D LUT, they will use your specific color temp SM WB adjustments to all picture modes of the same selected color temp mode.

If you reset a 3D LUT, it will reset only the 3D LUT of the specific picture mode you are using, it will not affect 3D LUT of other picture modes.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #381 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 01:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The picture modes which will use custom or UNITY 1D LUT, they will bypass looking the adjustments you made to SM WB.

The picture modes you will to not send custom or UNITY 1D LUT, they will use your specific color temp SM WB adjustments to all picture modes of the same selected color temp mode.

If you reset a 3D LUT, it will reset only the 3D LUT of the specific picture mode you are using, it will not affect 3D LUT of other picture modes.
Yes I do understand. But to ask the question a different way, please consider this case:

* SDR "Cinema", with "Warm2", LG factory 1DLUT, my 3DLUT, my adjustments in SM for "Warm" WB (afterward resetting 3DLUT but before creating 3DLUT)
* SDR "ISF Dark", with "Warm2", LG factory 1DLUT, LG Factory 3DLUT.

When I made the adjustments in SM for SB, am I spoiling and changing the resulting calibration of the other modes (eg ISF Dark) which was sharing the same colour temp mode (Warm2). Or maybe just improving them a little bit (since I am only fixing RGB balance)?

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #382 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
I had the opportunity to check mine for banding today, since I was planning anyway to replace the 1DLUT I did last week with a unity LUT.
The processing of the TV using 1D LUT are degrading the end visual result.

After many testing, for the best visual results, you have to ignore the 1D LUT (custom or UNITY) uploading, so TV will bypass that image processing step.

Somewhere there a problem, and can easily notice it with measurements also.... when instead of loading the correction 1D LUT to the TV, when you will use LightSpace and Active LUT, for loading the correction 1D LUT as an offset to your pattern generator.

The measurements results will not match, if you compare the same 1D LUT uploaded internally to the TV vs. virtually loading it to your patch generator.

This is the proof that something is wrong, if we ignore the processing degradation detail.
mrtickleuk likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #383 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Yes I do understand. But to ask the question a different way, please consider this case:

* SDR "Cinema", with "Warm2", LG factory 1DLUT, my 3DLUT, my adjustments in SM for "Warm" WB (afterward resetting 3DLUT but before creating 3DLUT)
* SDR "ISF Dark", with "Warm2", LG factory 1DLUT, LG Factory 3DLUT.

When I made the adjustments in SM for SB, am I spoiling and changing the resulting calibration of the other modes (eg ISF Dark) which was sharing the same colour temp mode (Warm2). Or maybe just improving them a little bit (since I am only fixing RGB balance)?
As SM Color Temp adjustments affect all picture modes with the same selected color temp, you can use 'Cool' color temp to do your stuff with SM so other picture modes with Warm 1/2/3 or Medium to not be affected.

White Balance settings of 'Warm' in Service Menu will adjust the 'Warm 1, Warm 2 and Warm 3' preset of Normal TV Menu.

White Balance settings of 'Medium' in Service Menu will adjust the 'Medium and Warm 1' preset of Normal TV Menu.

White Balance settings of 'Cool' in Service Menu will adjust the 'Cool' preset of Normal TV Menu.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #384 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 03:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The processing of the TV using 1D LUT are degrading the end visual result.

After many testing, for the best visual results, you have to ignore the 1D LUT (custom or UNITY) uploading, so TV will bypass that image processing step.
I understand. But like Cher, I can't turn back time. Since I had already replaced the 1DLUT, I decided I might as well experiment. Hence checking how it look with the unity 1DLUT + custom 3DLUT. If it's really that bad I need to do a factory reset which is a major inconvenience, and I want to delay that until I'm properly ready.

If there's something from with the 1DLUT, why is it ok to even use the factory 1DLUT? In your testing you say that factory 1DLUT was the best of the options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
As SM Color Temp adjustments affect all picture modes with the same selected color temp, you can use 'Cool' color temp to do your stuff with SM so other picture modes with Warm 1/2/3 or Medium to not be affected.
Sure but if I hijack "Cool", it destroys the behaviour of the slider from Cool to Warm in all the other modes. (Game, Sport, Eco, Standard, Vivid) - not that I would use them much.

If I understand you correct you are saying that yes, I am spoiling/changing the resulting calibration of the other modes (eg ISF Dark) which was sharing the same colour temp mode (Warm2) when I fix the RGB balance for my SDR Cinema mode.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #385 of 396 Old 09-21-2019, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
If there's something from with the 1DLUT, why is it ok to even use the factory 1DLUT? In your testing you say that factory 1DLUT was the best of the options?
The no factory 1D LUT, just that processing step is not used when you buy the TV, when you haven't uploaded any UNITY or custom LUT.

We are talking for the same stuff again and again, as all the guys which have posted in this thread the last days, after spending amazing time for evaluating different content and patterns, comparing every possible combination of calibration options (every kind of pattern generation RGB-Video, RGB Video Extended, YCbCr, with Contrast 100, with Contrast 85, SM WB, Normal Menu WB, 1D LUT LS, 1D LUT LS+Aug, 1D+3D LUT LightSpace, 1D+3D LUT+Aug, manual cal WB normal menu, no manual cal, 3D LUT with UNITY 1D, CalMAN 1D AutoCAL + 3D LUT LightSpace...............all possible combination you can imagine by different people......aiming to get the best possible end results with measurements and visually also!.......all agree that 1D LUT processing is problematic and its not recommended to be used.

The best way to do profiling is by using RGB-Video Extended Patterns, 16-255 and performing only 3D LUT without uploading anything to 1D LUT, doing SM WB 100% White aiming 121 calibrated nits when you will use 16-255 patch generation, for getting about 100 nits calibrated to 100% White (and 121 nits to 109% Super White) at the end.
mrtickleuk likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #386 of 396 Old 09-26-2019, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Can I safely use DeviceControl Interface?

DeviceControl Interface will install a web-server which provides the capability to registered users to publish or download any template shared by other users.

DeviceControl Interface will require internet connection only when the user will select to refresh the cloud to check if there available for download any newer LG Template version or when the user will actually download a specific template to his system.

Each LG Template will require a file download with size between 24 KB (min) - 2 MB (max).

Once the user will download any LG Template, the software will work in offline mode, there will be no call to the cloud unless the user will click to About Menu, to check if there any newer version of DeviceControl Interface available for download.

DeviceControl Interface will not connect with any web-server unless the user will click to check for LG Templates or DeviceControl Interface updates.

When the user want to download any LG Template for DeviceControl Interface from a facility or office where the internet connection capabilities are limited or secured, then the user can download the LG Templates from his home or temporary enable a WiFi-spot from a mobile phone only; and connect the notebook with the DeviceControl Interface installed to that temp network for some seconds, just for downloading only the LG Templates.

When DeviceControl Interface will connect with the LG OLED TV, it will require local network connection only, it will not require any active internet connection.

All the DeviceControl Interface code is open source and anytime the user can see what the software is doing.

The extra software which DeviceControl Interface using is available inside the ‘extra_software’ directory.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #387 of 396 Old 09-26-2019, 10:10 AM
Senior Member
 
ebr9999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Fixing bad near black pannel response

  1. Here infos about how I have fixed issues with my pannel, having quite bad near black a 100/110 Nts: black is matched with OLED=52, but I have to set 5/10% IRE luminance at around 10 for achieving an acceptable near black. The basis is the procedure the same of this post.
  2. I have matched the RGB balance with gamma=2.4 and OLED=29. The reason I have chosen 2.4 instead of the usual 2.2 is related to what appears as a gamma scaling problem of my pannel: at 3% with gamma=2.2 I have a little excess of luminance. With 2.4 the gray cannot be read by my I1D3. You can immagine how crunched are the resulting black in case of 3DLUT conversion.
  3. I have run Display Caracterisation with around 5000 patches.
  4. The conversion to rec709 may looks not so bad, with the exception that 3% is very low (read as 0 by my I1D3) and 5% shows gamma=2.6
  5. To fix that, and boost near black, I have generated a parametric gamma (32 points) with 3%=2.1, 6%=2.2 and 9%=2.3 and used as source of the DC. The main goal is to achieve everything through the 3DLUT, without touching the TV grayscale controls.
  6. The Outcome checked over 1000 patches looks good: 0.3 of dE2000 average . The gamma is enough in line with what has been set , and I have only 3 points with dE2000 between 1 and 1.3. Obviously checked with the parametric gamma. Near black is good and without banding from patterns and contents (1 week of contents viewing). Note that working on parametric gamma I might boost more 3% and try flattening gamma, but following the good visual test I have preferrred to stay with that.
ConnecTEDDD, L30Z3N and mrtickleuk like this.

TV: LG 55E8PLA, Pana TX-L37ET5E BD/DVR: Panasonic BMR-BWT735 Media player: Teufel Connector 2, HT Rec: ANTHEM MRX 510,
Front: Woofer&Tweeter, Center: 2Woofer&1Tweeter, Surround: Bose acoustimass 5 series II, Sub: SVS SB2000
ebr9999 is offline  
post #388 of 396 Old 09-26-2019, 11:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 7,059
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4858 Post(s)
Liked: 7149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
We are talking for the same stuff again and again, as all the guys which have posted in this thread the last days, after spending amazing time for evaluating different content and patterns, comparing every possible combination of calibration options (every kind of pattern generation RGB-Video, RGB Video Extended, YCbCr, with Contrast 100, with Contrast 85, SM WB, Normal Menu WB, 1D LUT LS, 1D LUT LS+Aug, 1D+3D LUT LightSpace, 1D+3D LUT+Aug, manual cal WB normal menu, no manual cal, 3D LUT with UNITY 1D, CalMAN 1D AutoCAL + 3D LUT LightSpace...............all possible combination you can imagine by different people......aiming to get the best possible end results with measurements and visually also!.......all agree that 1D LUT processing is problematic and its not recommended to be used.
Yes, understood and accepted :-)

Quote:
The best way to do profiling is by using RGB-Video Extended Patterns, 16-255 and performing only 3D LUT without uploading anything to 1D LUT, doing SM WB 100% White aiming 121 calibrated nits when you will use 16-255 patch generation, for getting about 100 nits calibrated to 100% White (and 121 nits to 109% Super White) at the end.
Thanks, I have had some very nice results doing this . I had a question which is off-topic for this thread but I'll ask it somewhere more appropriate.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #389 of 396 Old 09-29-2019, 03:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 0
If a 1D LUT was uploaded for a picture mode can it be undone? Does a factory reset of the TV make it forget about/ignore it?
DaniJ is offline  
post #390 of 396 Old 09-29-2019, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,363
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked: 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
If a 1D LUT was uploaded for a picture mode can it be undone? Does a factory reset of the TV make it forget about/ignore it?
With 2018 LG, you need to a factory reset the TV, to unload the 1D LUT, so normal UI menu WB controls to be available again.

With 2019 LG, its been added Picture Mode Reset, no need to perform factory reset.
KC-Technerd and DaniJ like this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off