LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 406 Old 10-07-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
I forgot instead to post my CalMAN verification charts. That way, also people not really familiar with LightSpace can truly understand the results I (we) obtained with LS.

I'll also update my previous post with these:

Spoiler!
Than-you for adding these, please can you tell me what is the name of the Workflow they are from? There's a lot of nice information all presented on the same screen, but I can't find a workflow with that much stuff in one place. Not even Teddd's workflows which I bought on his disc

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@jrref John, you gonna love the 9M at dE 0.65
That's a nasty brown colour. Have I missed why a brown would be exciting?
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post #392 of 406 Old 10-07-2019, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Than-you for adding these, please can you tell me what is the name of the Workflow they are from? There's a lot of nice information all presented on the same screen, but I can't find a workflow with that much stuff in one place. Not even Teddd's workflows which I bought on his disc
That’s a @BlackJoker ‘s creation.


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That's a nasty brown colour. Have I missed why a brown would be exciting?
Previously, that color was the only one with a dE2000 over 1 with both CM and LS calibration. So we (especially John) were wondering if it was a panel limit. Well, it’s not, although it has a little higher dE than the others.
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post #393 of 406 Old 10-08-2019, 07:18 AM
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@gwgill Hi Graeme,
for my pleasure I am trying to create a 3DLUT with DisplayCal starting from a profile made with LightSpace. So I used your utility ls2ti3.exe for the bcs to ti3 conversion and all went down smoothly. But the first question arises: how does ls2ti3 deal with drift patches?

I then used DisplayCal "Create profile from measurements data" and get a warning:"The measurement data does not contain calibration curves". Is that a problem and is there something I can do about it?

Thank you,
Miki

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post #394 of 406 Old 10-08-2019, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
@gwgill Hi Graeme,
for my pleasure I am trying to create a 3DLUT with DisplayCal starting from a profile made with LightSpace. So I used your utility ls2ti3.exe for the bcs to ti3 conversion and all went down smoothly. But the first question arises: how does ls2ti3 deal with drift patches?
No-one has ever sent me a ls measurement file with drift patches, so I have no idea.
[ Note that ArgyllCMS's drift compensation is done in the measurement process, and the corrected measurements end up in the .ti3 file. ]
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I then used DisplayCal "Create profile from measurements data" and get a warning:"The measurement data does not contain calibration curves". Is that a problem and is there something I can do about it?
It's not a problem if that is what you intended. i.e. the typical desktop display profiling process is to first calibrate the display by making per channel calibration curves. This allows setting certain parameters (such as white point and brightness) that are not easily set using the usual color management workflow. (Alternatively white point and brightness may be set by altering the display itself using its built in controls.) An additional benefit of calibration is that it may make the display better behaved, thereby improving the quality of the subsequent profile, since the per channel curves are much more detailed than profiling (per channel curves 1D curves vs. 3D table interpolation).
But since ls doesn't include a calibration curve step, this information will be missing from the ls data file, and the resulting .ti3 file will be missing this information. Hence the warning.
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post #395 of 406 Old 10-09-2019, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
I have run Display Characterization with around 5000 patches.
  1. The Outcome checked over 1000 patches looks good: 0.3 of dE2000 average . The gamma is enough in line with what has been set , and I have only 3 points with dE2000 between 1 and 1.3.
ColourSpace visuals of your 1000 color point post-measurements evaluation.

APNG (Animated PNG file) of 2D CIE1931 Chart, the 4 frame loop will display your results filtered to display the dE2000 points with:

All measured points without filtering of dE as frame 1.

Visible only measured points which have 0 - 0.5 dE2000 as frame 2.

Visible only measured points which have 0.5 - 1.0 dE2000 as frame 3.

Visible only measured points which have 1 - 1.5 dE2000 as frame 4.




APNG (Animated PNG file) of 3D CIE1931 Chart, with 4 frame explanation as 2D CIE1931 Chart APNG:



APNG (Animated PNG file) of Normalized RGB Cube, with 4 frame explanation as 2D CIE1931 Chart APNG:

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post #396 of 406 Old 10-14-2019, 06:03 PM
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I was able to use LightSpace HTL and iDisplay Pro OEM to create a 3D Lut and upload to my 2019 77" C9. Running the Display Characterization took about 9 hours to do a 21^3 Anisometric patch sequence in Closed Loop Mode with 100 Drift Comp.

I did the pre-calibration steps and then set Brightness 52, Contrast 85, OLED Light 23, and service menu white balance high adjustment for Rec709. Patch Generator is madtpg 0-255, LS 16-255, TV RGB Low.

I'm looking to see what the latest recommendations are. I followed one of the posts in the beginning of this thread (probe settings attached). I see people are getting great results running 17^3 and drift comp 50. Is Stabilisation necessary?

I ran 10^3 pre-roll before calibration. If the TV is warmed up over an hour is that necessary?

I'm trying to optimize the display characterization for speed vs results.

I still need to profile the display post 3D Lut upload (ran out of time with the TV). Just watching regular content it looks good.
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post #397 of 406 Old 10-15-2019, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
I was able to use LightSpace HTL and iDisplay Pro OEM to create a 3D Lut and upload to my 2019 77" C9. Running the Display Characterization took about 9 hours to do a 21^3 Anisometric patch sequence in Closed Loop Mode with 100 Drift Comp.

I did the pre-calibration steps and then set Brightness 52, Contrast 85, OLED Light 23, and service menu white balance high adjustment for Rec709. Patch Generator is madtpg 0-255, LS 16-255, TV RGB Low.

I'm looking to see what the latest recommendations are. I followed one of the posts in the beginning of this thread (probe settings attached). I see people are getting great results running 17^3 and drift comp 50. Is Stabilisation necessary?

I ran 10^3 pre-roll before calibration. If the TV is warmed up over an hour is that necessary?

I'm trying to optimize the display characterization for speed vs results.

I still need to profile the display post 3D Lut upload (ran out of time with the TV). Just watching regular content it looks good.
Hi, what is your GPU setting?

Looking your meter settings, extra delay 0.75 and stabilization 0.75 was the reason which your measurement time went to 9 hours, its normally takes about 6 for that patchset size.

Use 0.3 extra delay and 0.35 stabilization.

The pre-roll you used with 0.75 sec it takes 12 minutes.

It will work better is you use 2.3 sec next time (38 minutes) so you can start it to work as warm-up also, in total you need 1 hour the TV to be working before starting measurements.

Stabilization is necessary always.
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post #398 of 406 Old 10-15-2019, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
APNG (Animated PNG file) of Normalized RGB Cube, with 4 frame explanation as 2D CIE1931 Chart APNG:

Do the orange points shown have long vectors attached that just aren't visible because of the angle we're looking them from, or are they just examples of why visualizing this sort of thing in the non-perceptual RGB space isn't always as useful as you might think?
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post #399 of 406 Old 10-15-2019, 01:49 AM
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The length of any 'vector' is an absolute difference value display, not dE based.
So you can easily have a large vector, but low dE value in any graph.
And vice-versa.

That is why we have both the Vectors, and the dE based colour coding.

Steve
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post #400 of 406 Old 10-15-2019, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, what is your GPU setting?
GPU 0-255, madvr 0-255, LS 16-255, TV Low.

With these settings I do not need to apply any video scale option in LS prior to exporting the 3D Lut correct?

What about drift compensation? 100, 50?


Also if I want to use an alternate white point or gamma for a profile can I just define that when creating the 3D Lut in LS?

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post #401 of 406 Old 10-15-2019, 07:31 AM
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  1. Yes, the 3DLUT does not need any video scaling, based on you settings.
  2. For i1Display PRO users with 17-Point Cube patch sets, Drift Comp. with value 50 works better.
    For i1Display PRO users with 21-Point Cube patch sets, Drift Comp. with value 100 works better.

    For Klein K-10A users with 17 or 21-Point Cube patch sets, Drift Comp. with value 100 works better.
  3. You have to create a new color space based on rec709 (from "convert color space"). Open rec709, modify it, and save it with a name you like. When generating the 3DLUT that color space will be the source of your conversion.


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post #402 of 406 Old 10-15-2019, 03:07 PM
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Fixing bad near black pannel response II

With reference to the above post, I have continued testing with real contents. My conclusion is that using parametric gamma to cut gamma at low IRE gives a washed picture fro dark scenes.
So I have used parametric gamma only to flatten gamma at low IRE.

I have followed a 2 steps process: First generating a Display Characterization, based on my panel nearblack (BR=52, having partially fixed RGB balance from service Menu, and now starting gamma=2.2) and, based on that, converted to REC709 gamma 2.4.
Then I have fixed the bad near-black (typical of my pannel) by using parametric gamma shaped over a 45 points gray scale. The main point was to fix black a 3 IRE (not readable by the meter and hardly visible). I have also fixed up to 14 IRE.
Here how gamma was modified:

Here the outcome of the usual 1024 patches:

dE2000 stays below 1 and average is around .3. Maybe it depends that, in addition of what I have usually done, I have clicked "Average Low LightMeausurements.
Here the graph of point above 0.75:

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post #403 of 406 Old 10-16-2019, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
GPU 0-255, madvr 0-255, LS 16-255, TV Low.

With these settings I do not need to apply any video scale option in LS prior to exporting the 3D Lut correct?
Using these setting you will clip your WTW.

Its better to use LS Patch Scale 0-255 / GPU 0-255 RGB / madTPG 16-235 / TV Black Level @ Low, so you will preserve WTW and madVR will not expand the video levels to PC levels (do this for playback also). After colorspace conversion apply videoscale sub-black filter.

You can see why you need to leave 'headroom' there, with some picture examples of 'out of video legal range values' using 'Mission Impossible - Fallout Blu-Ray' movie as example there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
What about drift compensation? 100, 50?

Also if I want to use an alternate white point or gamma for a profile can I just define that when creating the 3D Lut in LS?
Use the 2/3 info of ebr9999 post.
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post #404 of 406 Old 10-16-2019, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
Here the outcome of the usual 1000 patches:
ColourSpace visuals of your 1000 color point post-measurements evaluation.

APNG (Animated PNG file) of 2D CIE1931 Chart, the 4 frame loop will display your results filtered to display the dE2000 points with:

All measured points without filtering of dE as frame 1.

Visible only measured points which have 0 - 0.5 dE2000 as frame 2.

Visible only measured points which have 0.5 - 1.0 dE2000 as frame 3.

Visible only measured points which have 1 - 1.5 dE2000 as frame 4. (no errors above 1dE2000, as you had 6 points only between 0.7 - 0.09 dE2000 range.



APNG (Animated PNG file) of 3D CIE1931 Chart, with 4 frame explanation as 2D CIE1931 Chart APNG:



APNG (Animated PNG file) of Normalized RGB Cube, with 4 frame explanation as 2D CIE1931 Chart APNG:



Below are Cube Preview still pictures, after the calculated from LightSpace 3D LUT correction based to your 4197 measurements. After colorspace conversion LightSpace said that you had 100% coverage.










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post #405 of 406 Old 10-16-2019, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Using these setting you will clip your WTW.

Its better to use LS Patch Scale 0-255 / GPU 0-255 RGB / madTPG 16-235 / TV Black Level @ Low, so you will preserve WTW and madVR will not expand the video levels to PC levels (do this for playback also). After colorspace conversion apply videoscale sub-black filter.

I do use GPU 0-255, madvr 16-235, TV Black level Low when watching content to preserve WTW.

I thought for creating the 3D Lut for the LG TV it was better to use video extended levels 16-255 which is why I also set madtpg to 0-255 just for calibrating the TV.

If using PGenerator for patch generation wouldn't it be the same? Pgenerator 0-255, LS 16-255, TV RGB Low?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
I do use GPU 0-255, madvr 16-235, TV Black level Low when watching content to preserve WTW.

I thought for creating the 3D Lut for the LG TV it was better to use video extended levels 16-255 which is why I also set madtpg to 0-255 just for calibrating the TV.
I don' think it will work like that for the patch generation.

But you can verify by taking 'Quick Profile of Primary only' measurements with these madVR settings vs. PGenerator setting below.

If the charts are the same and black/white level also, then it will work.

If using PGenerator for patch generation wouldn't it be the same? Pgenerator 0-255, LS 16-255, TV RGB Low?[/QUOTE]

For PGenerator, these settings above are correct.
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