LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 261 Old 04-04-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sat4all View Post
Yes, Calman only for verification, LS for measurements + luts generation and DCC with LG template to upload luts to the tv.

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Great, thanks. And also MadTPG and MadVR were just used to generate patches for profiling frm an HTPC? (driven by LS)
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post #212 of 261 Old 04-04-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Great, thanks. And also MadTPG and MadVR were just used to generate patches for profiling frm an HTPC? (driven by LS)
Yes, exactly.

Cheers

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post #213 of 261 Old 04-04-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
There is a new videoscale filter which has been added for LG's 2018 1D/3D LUT, to the LightSpace Beta.

Using that filter, you can use 16-235 patch generation with CR85....and videoscale each 1D and 3D LUT's with that new filter before exporting to DeviceControl LG format.

That filter called 'VideoScale Sub Black', which re-scales the 100% White from 255, to 235. Its for LG only that filter, because internal LG LUT tables are 0-255 (0-1023).

The correct TV setting (as internally designed) is to have CR100 when you will send 16-235 patterns (because internal LUT is 0-1023 with the video black '64' mapped to '0' of the LUT) so when you have CR100... the 940 expanded to 1023.

With the new filter, the 940 will stay to 940 and from 940 until 1023 it will be interpolated, when you will measure with 16-235 patterns with CR85 setting.

So there available 3 ways to calibrate these displays for video levels via LightSpace and LG Template for DeviceControl:

1) 16-235 patch generation with CR100 (no filter required) HDMI Black 'Low'

2) 16-235 patch generation with CR85 (videoblack sub black filter required) with HDMI Black 'Low'

3) 16-255 patch generation with CR85 (no filter required) HDMI Black 'Low'

I will write the documentation and post instructions for everything, for LG Template to start being available...
Ted, are all 3 of these 'ways' equivalent in terms of accuracy and precision, or is one of them a bit better than the others (higher peak brightness, lower dEs, whatever...).

I understand that for those with existing TPG setups, they need to know which option works for the patch-types they are able to generate, but for those of us that have not yet selected a TPG solution, knowing which of the above 3 options is 'best' would help understanding what to aim for as far as a TPG solution...
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post #214 of 261 Old 04-04-2019, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Ted, are all 3 of these 'ways' equivalent in terms of accuracy and precision, or is one of them a bit better than the others (higher peak brightness, lower dEs, whatever...).

I understand that for those with existing TPG setups, they need to know which option works for the patch-types they are able to generate, but for those of us that have not yet selected a TPG solution, knowing which of the above 3 options is 'best' would help understanding what to aim for as far as a TPG solution...
All these options are available for users with various pattern generations, so they choose according to their patch generation levels they will use.

For Example if you have Amazon FireStick with LightSpace Connect, you can do RGB-Video 16-235 patch generation only, so using CR100 you clip 'headroom', with CR85 you allow 'headroom'

For PGenerator (Raspberry Pi based) users, they can do RGB-Video 16-235 or RGB-Video Extended 16-255.

If you have DVDO/Murideo/Accupel, you can do RGB-Video / RGB-Video Extended or YCbCr 4:4:4/4:2:2 (so 16-235).

If you are using MadVR, you can do RGB 16-235 patch generation.
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post #215 of 261 Old 04-04-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
All these options are available for users with various pattern generations, so they choose according to their patch generation levels they will use.

For Example if you have Amazon FireStick with LightSpace Connect, you can do RGB-Video 16-235 patch generation only, so using CR100 you clip 'headroom', with CR85 you allow 'headroom'

For PGenerator (Raspberry Pi based) users, they can do RGB-Video 16-235 or RGB-Video Extended 16-255.

If you have DVDO/Murideo/Accupel, you can do RGB-Video / RGB-Video Extended or YCbCr 4:4:4/4:2:2 (so 16-235).

If you are using MadVR, you can do RGB 16-235 patch generation.
Understand, thanks.

And the final results using any of the above options would be identical, right?
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post #216 of 261 Old 04-04-2019, 09:50 PM
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As far as I know and understand, it’s better to profile at CR85, because profiling at CR100 and then going back to CR85 when finished will give some gamma issue.

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post #217 of 261 Old 04-05-2019, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
As far as I know and understand, it’s better to profile at CR85, because profiling at CR100 and then going back to CR85 when finished will give some gamma issue.
After further testing, restoring back CR85 after profiling using CR100 is not required, since its been added to LightSpace the VideoScale Sub Black Filter, so you always keep the same CR setting after profiling also.

Its up to the user if he will profile with CR100 or CR85.
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post #218 of 261 Old 04-08-2019, 02:32 PM
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LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread

I also find the sweet spot with my actual setup. Until my new gear arrives I can enjoy some movies now. We did a bunch of tests with a lot of different settings so everyone who didn't want to waste some time can use my settings as a guideline such as the one from sat4all.

LG 65C8:
- 04.10.31 firmware
- SM ASBL deactivated
- OLED Light 27 ~ 100 nits
- Brightness 50
- Contrast 85

Setup:
- iD3 Rev.B
- DVDO @ 16-235 4:2:2 and 12 bit
- Lightspace 10.0.0.2934
- DC with LG template
- 1D LUT: gray large + Gray large for Aug data
- 3D LUT: 17^3 Finseq + 10^3 Finseq Pre Roll
without Aug data (Aug Data for 3D LUT causes banding)

I used also the new Sub Black Filter for all my converting in LS.
















I want to thank especially Ted for all his efforts and help to make this results possible
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post #219 of 261 Old 04-13-2019, 12:02 AM
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I reprofiled my C8 with a K-10 A which I profiled against an i1Pro2. It was the first time with my OLED that I was able to overcome the red luminance issue during the FCCM creation. As you can see on the left bottom corner on my Chromasurf Screenshot it's in the NIST tolerance.



The 21^3 profile with pre roll just rushed through and only took 2h 40 and honestly I never want to go back to a id3



The drift improved also from the speed of the K-10A



LG 65C8:
- 04.10.31 firmware
- SM ASBL deactivated
- OLED Light 27 ~ 100 nits
- Brightness 50
- Contrast 85

Setup:
- K-10A
- DVDO @ 16-235 4:2:2 and 12 bit
- Lightspace 10.0.0.2934
- DC with LG template
- 1D LUT: 46p + 46p for Aug data
- 3D LUT: 21^3 Finseq + 10^3 Finseq Pre Roll
without Aug data (Aug Data for 3D LUT causes banding)

I used also the new Sub Black Filter for all my converting in LS.












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Probe: C6-HDR, i1 Display Pro OEM Rev.B (2018), i1Pro2 OEM Rev.E Software: Lightspace HTL, Calman 2018 Enthusiast
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post #220 of 261 Old 04-13-2019, 01:33 AM
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So did you lift 2p low to reduce the black chrusch the LG 04.10.31 fw gives,i had to choose that way,since you now have a klein you can have a look at the darker sides of oleds

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post #221 of 261 Old 04-16-2019, 04:24 PM
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LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread

Can someone tell me how to get the latest beta?

I got the latest beta from Ted , thanks Ted !


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post #222 of 261 Old 04-19-2019, 11:48 PM
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Any chance an update will allow LightSpace to export a smaller sized 3DLUT for B8? Or can DeviceControl handle the 33p one?
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post #223 of 261 Old 04-23-2019, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
Any chance an update will allow LightSpace to export a smaller sized 3DLUT for B8? Or can DeviceControl handle the 33p one?
There very small interest about B8, for that reason its not supported currently.

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post #224 of 261 Old 04-24-2019, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
Any chance an update will allow LightSpace to export a smaller sized 3DLUT for B8? Or can DeviceControl handle the 33p one?


If you refresh you DeviceControl Cloud, you will see B8 now
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There is available a LightSpace Beta with export capability for 17-Point Cube 3D LUT DeviceControl Interface file format, required for LG B8 users.

As is usual, for that beta download link, please contact me here only (no PM's): http://www.displaycalibrations.com/contact_us.html
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post #226 of 261 Old 04-26-2019, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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There is a newer version of the LG Template, to get it.... delete from your 'local' the old template and then refresh your 'cloud', then drag-n-drop the new template from 'Cloud' to your 'Local'.

Its been added support for LG Studio (Gen 1) Monitors; LG OLED 2017 (B7/C7/E7/G7/W7) with 'special' firmware installed; which adding internal LUT capabilities for 1D LUT (1024 entries) and 3D LUT (17-Point Cube).

This 'special' firmware is provided by LG to their partners in content production area, like Technicolor. (its not available for consumers).

its been support for these models, to provide DDC (Direct Display Control) and 1D/3D LUT management.
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post #227 of 261 Old 04-27-2019, 10:47 AM
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Has anyone encountered such a weird jump in the gamma at 0.5? Measured multiple gray only patches with D3 at 1 sec (intelligent) integration, 2 sec black stabilization and 1 sec delay for PGenerator patterns.
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post #228 of 261 Old 04-28-2019, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
Has anyone encountered such a weird jump in the gamma at 0.5? Measured multiple gray only patches with D3 at 1 sec (intelligent) integration, 2 sec black stabilization and 1 sec delay for PGenerator patterns.
Have you disabled the ASBL?

Its not looking normal, do you have what weird jump when you will re-measure? What patchset are you using?
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I've done various measurements (mostly of darker patches) and after about 2h it started showing similar irregularities. For the case above I've measured a custom CSV set (attached) with more gray patches than the default ones.

I'm not exactly sure what ASBL is. From the menu I've disabled what I could find, but haven't accessed the service menu.
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post #230 of 261 Old 04-28-2019, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
I've done various measurements (mostly of darker patches) and after about 2h it started showing similar irregularities. For the case above I've measured a custom CSV set (attached) with more gray patches than the default ones.



I'm not exactly sure what ASBL is. From the menu I've disabled what I could find, but haven't accessed the service menu.


You have to go into the service menu to disable asbl(auto static brightness limiter ), it’s fairly straight forward but absolutely needed . It’s detailed in Ted’s instructions also in a separate thread in the OLED section.



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post #231 of 261 Old 04-29-2019, 09:47 AM
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Turns out the logo protection was still active. My bad.
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post #232 of 261 Old 05-21-2019, 09:54 AM
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Something I am not solving, not event with Ted's help.
It's all about 1Dlut. 3Dlut, I would say also thanks to drifting, looks from pretty good to excellent.

I am on sw 55 on my E8, but I I have gotten similar problem with sw 20.
Regarding 1Dlut generation and checking:
I keep contrast at 85, brightness al 85, no ABSL, no Logo, and set my Murideo on YUV422 16-225. Interval on LS 0-255.
My I1pro has Intelligent Integration at 1.0, stabilisation and integration at 0.75 (but I have also tried without finding significant differences) and intergration time at 0.75.
Here what I get at first reading:
Diff Gamma

RGB



Then I convert to rec701, sub-black, upload, and here the result:
Diff Gamma

RGB



What concerns me is what happens at 90-95 IRE on gamma. And I get the same calibrating at 220 Nits,
Doing manual calibration I can flatten pretty well the gamma in that area (L=3 at 85, L=1 at 90 and 95), and with RGB gamma quite alligned thank to RGB balancing fine tuning:
Diff Gamma

RGB






It is only my issue? Is your starting different? Maybe something taht does not work well only on my E8. The real issue is about how can do fine tuning on the top of the good work done on 1Dlut. Obvious that on my E8, to my knowledge, the best would be 1Dlut manula calibration and 3Dlut by LS (by the way: .55 sw come with a red inaccuracy I can 100% fix with a good LS 3Dlut)
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post #233 of 261 Old 05-21-2019, 01:14 PM
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^^^ None of your examples came through...

...Royce...

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post #234 of 261 Old 05-21-2019, 02:40 PM
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I have only one example: the gamma I have with manual calibration (last graph) is flatter than the one I have with automatic calibration (third graph).


Also RGB balance is better,

but insisting a little (i.e. doing another run relaying on augmented data), it goes on pair.
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post #235 of 261 Old 05-24-2019, 10:37 AM
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Still with some inaccuracy on L1lut, here the remarkable result I have gotten with various 3DLUT.
All of them with drift at 50 (when I have forgotten that I have gotten definitely worse results).
I have run for verification 100% and 75% gamut sweeps and memory colors. For all the graphs I have applied a custom filter to display points in the CIE with dE 2000 >= 1.
Here the starting point (i.e. the default 3DLUT);

Here a 13 cube:

Here a 17 cube:

And last but not least a 21 cube:



You can note that on Other the maximum dE 2000 starts with 1.82 of default 3DLUT, and decreases to already good 1.19 of 13 cube generation, going down to 0.96 of 17 and 0.77 of 21.


PS: Many thanks to @ConnecTEDDD who has driven me in this adventure
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post #236 of 261 Old 05-24-2019, 01:38 PM
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You can try to substract the 1D LUT from the 3D LUT and use only the 1D LUT with augmented data you created before the 3D LUT. We discovered the best possible results with this approach because after applying the 3D LUT we had always some more errors in the grayscale then before that's why the substraction helps in this case.
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post #237 of 261 Old 05-25-2019, 12:09 PM
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After multiple retries I can't seem to get rid of a strong blue cast in the darker area. Attaching an image of how it looks before (measured more points in that area). The 1D LUT reduces blue considerably (although a bit still remains in the darker area). The 3D LUT then raises back the blue level leading to the second image. The strong blue cast is visible to the eye.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong or where the limitation is. I've used longer integration times with the D3, tried out all the modes (AIO, Burst, ...), intelligent integration, multiple seconds of black or gray stabilization patches, drift compensation, ASBL off, multiple sized 3D LUTs (up to 11), Pass Black, Sub Black, multiple sized grey scale patches (including the default Grey Only).

Thank you
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post #238 of 261 Old 05-25-2019, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
You can try to substract the 1D LUT from the 3D LUT and use only the 1D LUT with augmented data you created before the 3D LUT. We discovered the best possible results with this approach because after applying the 3D LUT we had always some more errors in the grayscale then before that's why the substraction helps in this case.
Many thanks for your comments and for sharing your hint. I am in different case, as my greyscale becomes better after 3DLUT. A curiosity: After first 1D LUT creation I often create a new one based on the augumented data coming from a new grey scale reading, as it improves PS: (noted that for being effective the grey scale reading must be the same). Then I generate and upload a 3D LUT. Are you doing something of different, a part wht described above?

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post #239 of 261 Old 05-25-2019, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
After multiple retries I can't seem to get rid of a strong blue cast in the darker area. Attaching an image of how it looks before (measured more points in that area). The 1D LUT reduces blue considerably (although a bit still remains in the darker area). The 3D LUT then raises back the blue level leading to the second image. The strong blue cast is visible to the eye.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong or where the limitation is. I've used longer integration times with the D3, tried out all the modes (AIO, Burst, ...), intelligent integration, multiple seconds of black or gray stabilization patches, drift compensation, ASBL off, multiple sized 3D LUTs (up to 11), Pass Black, Sub Black, multiple sized grey scale patches (including the default Grey Only).

Thank you
I guess you have to take in account I3 limitation at low luminosity. So trying to increase its performances in that area can only add only instability. I have gotten good results accepting that first reading of large greyscale reads nothing, also due to limination of LG SW 55, which kills black levels. You can see that in my graphs. If you have an LG C8 and indicates your starting point (Brightness, Contrast, sw release) I can have a test on my one and share results/setting.

PS: have you also tried manula calibration? Do you have laos there that blue cast on darker areas?

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post #240 of 261 Old 05-26-2019, 12:56 AM
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Thank you for the answer. I was suspecting the limitations of the D3 but in the case of the after graph, my eyes agree with it that blue is too strong.

With manual calibration I don't have this issue. The blue cast appears after setting the existing LUTs to Unity. I've read today about the process of augmenting LUTs (the guide I received didn't mention them). Hope it'll help.
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