LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 262 Old 05-26-2019, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
Many thanks for your comments and for sharing your hint. I am in different case, as my greyscale becomes better after 3DLUT. A curiosity: After first 1D LUT creation I often create a new one based on the augumented data coming from a new grey scale reading, as it improves PS: (noted that for being effective the grey scale reading must be the same). Then I generate and upload a 3D LUT. Are you doing something of different, a part wht described above?


I create 1D LUT from a 46p Grayscale reading then I upload the 1D LUT and redo the measurements and add Aug data to it. The I upload the new 1D LUT and run the 3D LUT afterwards. At the end I do the substraction like described.
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post #242 of 262 Old 05-26-2019, 01:09 AM
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My license doesn't allow subtraction.

Best I could do after augmenting:
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post #243 of 262 Old 05-26-2019, 08:59 AM
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What level do you need for subtraction? HTP and higher? I was going to look into it but I only have the HTL.
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post #244 of 262 Old 05-26-2019, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
Thank you for the answer. I was suspecting the limitations of the D3 but in the case of the after graph, my eyes agree with it that blue is too strong.

With manual calibration I don't have this issue. The blue cast appears after setting the existing LUTs to Unity. I've read today about the process of augmenting LUTs (the guide I received didn't mention them). Hope it'll help.

I think you mean after having uploaded the 1DLUT. I guess you have showed the RGB balance in the graphs you ahve posted. Quite strange as it looks you read something at full black, taht does not make sense with an I1D3, unless you have external light or wrong black level. I also think you have to many measurements at low IRE. Use the Grey Large only profile, or the grey only. To me they both worked quite well enough. Then you can work with refinements (e.g. by adding measurements pointz)

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Originally Posted by Vishwa Somayaji View Post
What level do you need for subtraction? HTP and higher? I was going to look into it but I only have the HTL.
I have HTP and I have substraction,

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post #245 of 262 Old 05-26-2019, 10:28 AM
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For the latest image added I've used Grey Large both for 1D and augmenting. Also switched to contrast 100 to avoid having to apply filters.

In the case where something appears to have been read at full black I've used the wrong setting (for measuring CRTs). After retrying it with other modes little changed (except it now shows 0 at 0 IRE).
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post #246 of 262 Old 05-27-2019, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
For the latest image added I've used Grey Large both for 1D and augmenting. Also switched to contrast 100 to avoid having to apply filters.

In the case where something appears to have been read at full black I've used the wrong setting (for measuring CRTs). After retrying it with other modes little changed (except it now shows 0 at 0 IRE).
How many Nits/s have you been calibrating?

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post #247 of 262 Old 05-27-2019, 01:54 PM
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Still trying to improve my 1DLUT. I have tried using the same @BlackJoker 46 points greyscale, with the only modifation of rising/deleting the level my I1pro could not read.
Here what I have achieved:
Diff Gamma

RGB


A little better, maybe.To add that using augmented data I have got marginal improvments,

At this point I have tried using Calman Autcal:
Diff Gamma

RGB


As said, what concerns me mostly is what happens in the 90 IRE zone. Clear depending from the response of my pannel in that zone. A way of manual tuning is wished .... Any hint?
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post #248 of 262 Old 05-27-2019, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
As said, what concerns me mostly is what happens in the 90 IRE zone. Clear depending from the response of my pannel in that zone. A way of manual tuning is wished .... Any hint?
Take a look at the actual and target luminance numbers for that 90% to 100% area, not just charts. The way gamma formulas work, the closer you get to 100%, the more impact small differences make to the calculated gamma. You could be very close to your targets, close enough that you don't have fine enough adjustment to get them perfect.
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post #249 of 262 Old 05-28-2019, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Take a look at the actual and target luminance numbers for that 90% to 100% area, not just charts. The way gamma formulas work, the closer you get to 100%, the more impact small differences make to the calculated gamma. You could be very close to your targets, close enough that you don't have fine enough adjustment to get them perfect.
I have given a look to numbers. Also attached in an excel file. Looking at the latest 10 readings, Delta L is in both cases below 0.8 %. The LS Autocal cas looks even better. The main diffrence being dxy better for the Calman case (1/2 ratio), so closer to x and y targets.

I wonder about the graph: I cannot see the overall gamma, but only the colors gamma. The way I usually interpret it is that where I see colors unbalancing I should work on balancing them.
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post #250 of 262 Old 05-28-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
How many Nits/s have you been calibrating?
About 140 at IRE 100 (contrast 100)
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post #251 of 262 Old 05-29-2019, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DaniJ View Post
About 140 at IRE 100 (contrast 100)
I have been looking at your previous posts. Not sure which one is related to your starting point, i.e. grey scale reading after 1DLUT reset. I would expected something similar to mine's. You should see a nice white and have consistent measurements starting from 3% IRE. Also your luminance graph should be alligned to a 2.2 gamma.

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post #252 of 262 Old 05-30-2019, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
You can try to substract the 1D LUT from the 3D LUT and use only the 1D LUT with augmented data you created before the 3D LUT. We discovered the best possible results with this approach because after applying the 3D LUT we had always some more errors in the grayscale then before that's why the substraction helps in this case.
I guess I am doing somthing wrong: I generate by convert my 3DLUT, then I do sub-black (as done when generating my 1DLUT), I substract the 1DLUT (as previously generated and exported), I export what I have generated as 3DLUT, I upload it. My warm white becomes very cold.


PS: 3DLUT without substraction works fine. I have not generate a 1DLUT with augmented data, as it was late, and I left the system doing the characterisation during the night.

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post #253 of 262 Old 05-31-2019, 08:19 AM
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You shouldn't subtract the 1D LUT from the 3D LUT, you should subtract the GS related LUT from the 3D LUT. To do so, after you convert color space (source Rec.709, destination your color profile), you have to export it in video card gamma table (txt) and subtract that txt from your new 3DLUT. After that, you can apply sub black and export it in dcl. Hope this helps.
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post #254 of 262 Old 06-01-2019, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
I have been looking at your previous posts. Not sure which one is related to your starting point, i.e. grey scale reading after 1DLUT reset. I would expected something similar to mine's. You should see a nice white and have consistent measurements starting from 3% IRE. Also your luminance graph should be alligned to a 2.2 gamma.
I've uploaded it in post #237 . It looks more irregular than yours, even if I measure less points.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58097804
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post #255 of 262 Old 06-10-2019, 08:34 AM
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Hi.


I don't know if my question is correct, or if it doesn't have sense, in the last case I apologize.


I suppose you can create 3D LUT to calibrate the LG OLED to Rec2020 or HDR? How many 3D LUT you can upload? Are they associated to ISF modes?



I am most interested in this options because I'll use the TV with Netflix (almost the new material is Ultra HD 4K or HDR) and a UHD player.


I bought a Panasonic FZ800 and I am thinking in return it and I'ld buy a LG C9. I want to be sure of the possibilities, I have Lightspace.


Thanks in advance.
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post #256 of 262 Old 06-10-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by fonsocm View Post
Hi.


I don't know if my question is correct, or if it doesn't have sense, in the last case I apologize.


I suppose you can create 3D LUT to calibrate the LG OLED to Rec2020 or HDR? How many 3D LUT you can upload? Are they associated to ISF modes?



I am most interested in this options because I'll use the TV with Netflix (almost the new material is Ultra HD 4K or HDR) and a UHD player.


I bought a Panasonic FZ800 and I am thinking in return it and I'ld buy a LG C9. I want to be sure of the possibilities, I have Lightspace.


Thanks in advance.
You can only create 3DLUT for SDR. Basically there are 5 SDR modes you can use. For HDR/DV you do need Calman Home, but check careful the pattern generator you have to use.
Better, in your perspective, you buy a 2019 model. There is an internal pattern generator that can be used for HDR and DV (with the limitation you cannot check the DV results, you have to trust the work done by Calman).

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post #257 of 262 Old 06-11-2019, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebr9999 View Post
You can only create 3DLUT for SDR. Basically there are 5 SDR modes you can use. For HDR/DV you do need Calman Home, but check careful the pattern generator you have to use.
Better, in your perspective, you buy a 2019 model. There is an internal pattern generator that can be used for HDR and DV (with the limitation you cannot check the DV results, you have to trust the work done by Calman).
Thanks.

5 slots should be enough.

If the problem is the pattern generator for HDR calibration, it could be resolved using Pgenerator and HDfury Integral to add the HDR metadata. Moreover, in Lightillusion web comment the calibration of one HDR mode should be usable for the others:

Quote:
Note: the underlying calibration of HDR10, HDR10+, and Dolby Vision is identical, as all use the same target colour space PQ EOTF and Rec2020 Gamut - the same calibration 'should' work for all standards.
Best regards.
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post #258 of 262 Old 06-11-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fonsocm View Post
Hi.


I don't know if my question is correct, or if it doesn't have sense, in the last case I apologize.


I suppose you can create 3D LUT to calibrate the LG OLED to Rec2020 or HDR? How many 3D LUT you can upload? Are they associated to ISF modes?



I am most interested in this options because I'll use the TV with Netflix (almost the new material is Ultra HD 4K or HDR) and a UHD player.


I bought a Panasonic FZ800 and I am thinking in return it and I'ld buy a LG C9. I want to be sure of the possibilities, I have Lightspace.


Thanks in advance.
Except Panasonic EZ1000 series (MY 2017) no other TV has HDR 3DLUT capabilities and even with the EZ1000 it’s not profitable to create a HDR 3DLUT because of the huge panel drifting.
If I were you, I’d stay with the FZ800 which is already accurate OOTB.

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post #259 of 262 Old 06-11-2019, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonsocm View Post
Thanks.

5 slots should be enough.

If the problem is the pattern generator for HDR calibration, it could be resolved using Pgenerator and HDfury Integral to add the HDR metadata. Moreover, in Lightillusion web comment the calibration of one HDR mode should be usable for the others:



Best regards.
There is something of proprietary for putting the TV in DV mode, and this, AFAIK, can only be done only with Calman.
I have a Murideo Six-g, but no way to put my TV in DV on its own.

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post #260 of 262 Old 06-12-2019, 07:11 AM
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With HDFury Integral it is possible.

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post #261 of 262 Old 06-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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Black levels and comparison with Calman

I have investigated on my E8 (FW .55), using i1D3 for generaiung, checking and comparing 1DLUT and 3DLUT.
Here some of the comparison I have done based on 120 Nits Target:
First of all I was quite curious to compare a 13 cube (on the top - 2 hours) with a 17 one (4 hours):

I have found the results very good. Clearly a 17 cube is better, but if you don't have time also a 13 one is good.
I have compared them using Ted's pattern, and I could spot differences.
Also a comparison of the 17 Cube with a manual calibration (on the top)

shows the related improvements. Problem this manual is that red at 100% is out range (moved right - verified with Jeti) - not sure if depending from .55 sw. Anyhow fixed with a 3DLUT and quite evident comparing side to side. Harder to detect on real contents.
Then I have started comparing with an Autocal case. As time is a constraints for 3DLUT, I have generated a 5000 point 3DLUT. Here the CM result (top) compared to LS 17 cube:

Not so bad, but, when I started comparing, I have found colour banding on blu, specifically on Blue Tunnel.
But I have seen some advantages on black levels. See LS results compared to CM ones on a gray ramp and on a 16-27 squares:

Looking to Ted's Black Tunnel pattern, with Calman I can see 1%. I have also given check to the outcomes with a .20 FW, but still LS is too dark.
But blue banding? Any relation with CM 1DLUT? So I have done my last test: over a CM 1DLUT I have run LS 17 cube (on the bottom) - on the top the 17 cube all CM cube:

And, most important thing, the banding is gone. Also grey scale has improved and grey scale either.

My impressions/conclusions: I think that 1DLUT have the capability to improve black levels. I guess i1DIS is not the best instruments for measuring them and I understand @BlackJoker has gotten better results, but with a Klein.

Worthless to add that 3DLUT generation on LS is great, but that's something of known
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post #262 of 262 Old 06-16-2019, 08:08 AM
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How setting Black Level

I think there is something of unclear when setting the black level in the autocal case.
When I do manual calibration on my OLED, I eventually switch the lights, and then I set gamma, and then the best black level.
Then, I go into the dark and start my calibration.
But is the best black level ok after automatic autocalibration?
In my case not: in any case black are crunched, and I have, also in a black room, to raise brightes by 2/3 points. This implies a lower average gamma (around 0.7) and some boost at low IRE.


I have also noted that Calman, after autocal, go back in its workflow to brightess and contranst setting.

Any thought/view if a better approach might be follewed?

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