ColourSpace CMS - Next Generation Calibration... Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 06:28 AM
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I just tried switching on Lumagen pattern generation without a LUT upload. This works fine in LS, no-go in CS.

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post #302 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
TPG Pattern are not sent with any LUT Upload...
The two process are totally separate, as can be defined by the GUI operation.

But, the error/change in the Lumage SDK/API for Rec2020/HDR capability looks to have caused more issues than first thought.
Investigation is ongoing by ourselves, and Lumagen.

Jeti also developed the new 4.4.5 SDK/API based on the issues we found with Bluetooth connections.
(LightSpace hardware/probe code is totally different to ColourSpace, so ColourSpace 'shows' issues with connected hardware that LightSpace 'glossed over'.)

Also, any change from a Bluetooth to USB connection is handled by the Jeti API/SDK, not ColourSpace.
Any such issue should be reported back to Jeti - not us. ColourSpace has zero knowledge of the connection being USB or Bluetooth - it just sees the COMs port, nothing more.

Also, we have no known issues with Jeti and any USB connections, so I would check you have the correct driver, and Jeti firmware installed.

Steev
This is exactly the behavior i experienced and I reported it but no worries as long as we understand how it works that's fine.

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post #303 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I just tried switching on Lumagen pattern generation without a LUT upload. This works fine in LS, no-go in CS.
You can ignore what works in LS - it is totally different, and has no impact on ColourSpace.

We just need to know what's not working with ColourSpace.

We can then liaise with Lumagen to see what's going on.

Steve

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post #304 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 08:01 AM
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Well, what do you know...

We have found a totally different issue with the Lumagen integration with ColourSpace, that is not at all related to the SDK change Lumagen made themselves.
(Our workaround for that is needed, and is working, but there was a totally separate bug that was all ours.)

Now fixed, and in the next Beta Release.

Keep the feedback coming.
(But Ted's Feedback Form is the best place, as we interrogate that often.)

Steve
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post #305 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
This is exactly the behavior i experienced and I reported it but no worries as long as we understand how it works that's fine.
Have you reported your feedback to Jeti?
They are working on these issue, so any help that can be provided is good.

Steve
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post #306 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 08:35 AM
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ColourSpace CMS - Next Generation Calibration... Thread

Is it possible to use 1080p blu ray player to calibrate 4k tv? Or do I need a 4k blue ray player?


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post #307 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anger.miki View Post
next stop... Awp, if you haven't already tried it.
awp?
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post #308 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 11:13 AM
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AWP = Alternate White Point x 0.309 y 0.329
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post #309 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
AWP = Alternate White Point x 0.309 y 0.329

What is that?


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post #310 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
AWP = Alternate White Point x 0.309 y 0.329
KiGAWP x 0.308 y 0.328, surely?
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post #311 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 12:18 PM
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@mrtickleuk Since 3 out of 4 (liberator72, D-Nice, zoyd vs me) had results close to x 0.309 y 0.329 I adopted that. Visually there's no difference anyway.

@MaryLouMaloney instead of calibrating the white point to D65 we (I, liberator72, zoyd and D-Nice) separately PERCEPTUALLY MATCHED our WOLED TVs white to a Pioneer Kuro white.
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Coming from a Panny plasma myself, I do get the value of that. Very much so!

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I did some Googlin’ and could not determine which models years of LG OLEDs are WOLED. I have a 55B7A.


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post #314 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I did some Googlin’ and could not determine which models years of LG OLEDs are WOLED. I have a 55B7A.


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At least since 2009. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#LG_applications
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post
I did some Googlin’️ and could not determine which models years of LG OLEDs are WOLED. I have a 55B7A.


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They ALL are...

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post #316 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
@mrtickleuk Since 3 out of 4 (liberator72, D-Nice, zoyd vs me) had results close to x 0.309 y 0.329 I adopted that. Visually there's no difference anyway.

@MaryLouMaloney instead of calibrating the white point to D65 we (I, liberator72, zoyd and D-Nice) separately PERCEPTUALLY MATCHED our WOLED TVs white to a Pioneer Kuro white.

I am going to use the Blue Ray disks that I purchased.


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post #317 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
@mrtickleuk Since 3 out of 4 (liberator72, D-Nice, zoyd vs me) had results close to x 0.309 y 0.329 I adopted that. Visually there's no difference anyway.

@MaryLouMaloney instead of calibrating the white point to D65 we (I, liberator72, zoyd and D-Nice) separately PERCEPTUALLY MATCHED our WOLED TVs white to a Pioneer Kuro white.
So, since we have named the TCM profiling method after its creator, Bodner, can we get this AWP named the Davis WP
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post #318 of 737 Old 05-07-2020, 10:27 PM
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I already named the colour space Rec709 DNAWP, but Rec709 Davis sounds better effectively.
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post #319 of 737 Old 05-08-2020, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
So, since we have named the TCM profiling method after its creator, Bodner, can we get this AWP named the Davis WP
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I already named the colour space Rec709 DNAWP, but Rec709 Davis sounds better effectively.
Absolutely. Even though I have also personally done the perceptual match experiment myself, because @D-Nice had done this multiple times previously and my end results were (near) identical, my custom colour space is named D-Nice AWP in both LS and CS
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post #320 of 737 Old 05-08-2020, 06:35 AM
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I'm new to CS and wanted to know for those who use the Murideo 6G, After connecting to the TPG, I can see what small, medium and large does for the patch sizes but what does Automatic do? Also Once your select the patch size the TPG settings are grayed out so do you have to set them first or does CS automatically set them?

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post #321 of 737 Old 05-08-2020, 07:56 AM
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Hi John,
For the "Calibration Patches" the two options "OFF" and "Automatic" are always available.
In addition, the options offered by the selected instrument are then displayed.
The option "Automatic" is actually more intended for the network server. With local TPGs a "default" setting is taken.
The option "Off" has a very important meaning in CS. For reasons of operational safety, you must always switch the Calibration Pattern to OFF first if you want to change the settings.
At the first time this may be a bit annoying, but soon you will realize that this is a very good way to avoid wrong switching of the TPG.

In the beginning you will - like me - start a measurement and no patterns will be displayed. Then you have forgotten that the calibration patterns are still set to "Off". When using the Network Server (Client) this happens to me all the time and so I asked Steve to check if the Calibration Pattern is "Off" when starting a measurement.
Peter
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post #322 of 737 Old 05-08-2020, 08:21 AM
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Please note that 'Automatic' uses the patch size/position/BG colour/etc info from the 'Settings' menu, for those devices that support such settings.
It is not just limited to the 'Network Server', and can provide a far greater level of TPG control.

Steve

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post #323 of 737 Old 05-08-2020, 11:52 AM
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For those trying to calibrate a 20120 LG OLED, by default the Black Level is set to Auto from the factory. You need to set it to Low or your min luminance is going to be wrong. Best i can remember it used to be set to low by default.

Also can someone point me to the 10pt, or 20 pt profiles that i can use to check the set manually or do i need to create them myself. Not sure where to find them.

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post #324 of 737 Old 05-08-2020, 09:50 PM
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Since I have disks for calibrating both 4K and SDR. I can do both right? Or is it recommend to calibrate to calibrate one or the other.

Also I read to wait use the TV for awhile like two weeks before calibrating.


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post #325 of 737 Old 05-09-2020, 01:50 AM
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Hi Steve,
during the test I noticed that the measurements for black (0,0,0) and white (255,255,255) for CS are so important that they are partly automatically supplemented by the program.
Therefore some rules should be followed when using own CSV files. These seem to me to be a bit stricter than for LS.
Maybe it would be good if you give an explanation why and when these two measurements are important for CS.
Peter

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMARDRIS View Post
Hi Steve,
during the test I noticed that the measurements for black (0,0,0) and white (255,255,255) for CS are so important that they are partly automatically supplemented by the program.
Therefore some rules should be followed when using own CSV files. These seem to me to be a bit stricter than for LS.
Maybe it would be good if you give an explanation why and when these two measurements are important for CS.
Peter

black is needed as system black point for certain color spaces (e.g. BT.1886, Rec 709 does not need it) and LS own custom dE variant. white is needed as system white point for all following color science. standard stuff and a good failsafe, but CS should obviously check whether these patches exist already in the patch set.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMARDRIS View Post
Hi Steve,
during the test I noticed that the measurements for black (0,0,0) and white (255,255,255) for CS are so important that they are partly automatically supplemented by the program.
Therefore some rules should be followed when using own CSV files. These seem to me to be a bit stricter than for LS.
Maybe it would be good if you give an explanation why and when these two measurements are important for CS.
Peter
No, there is no difference with ColourSpace and LightSpace with regard to Black/White.
They are always taken from measurements, IF AVAILABLE.

But, to plot EOTF you MUST have Black/White data, so that is set from the 'Settings' menu initially, until true Black/White have been measured.
(LightSpace never plotted EOTF from manual measurements, so never needed Black/White to be set initially.)

Steve

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post #328 of 737 Old 05-09-2020, 09:42 AM
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@Iron Mike & Steve
Thank you very much.
These are good reasons and I admit that with the Jeti I secretly wanted to do without the black level measurement.
Peter

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post #329 of 737 Old 05-09-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
black is needed as system black point for certain color spaces (e.g. BT.1886, Rec 709 does not need it) and LS own custom dE variant. white is needed as system white point for all following color science. standard stuff and a good failsafe, but CS should obviously check whether these patches exist already in the patch set.
Black and white levels are always needed also for a proper dE2000 calc.
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post #330 of 737 Old 05-09-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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These are good reasons and I admit that with the Jeti I secretly wanted to do without the black level measurement.
Peter
You do not 'need' to have a measured black value, as the value entered in the Settings' menu will be used for graph plotting.

When generating a LUT, if this value is pure zero (or an obviously inaccurate value), a more realistic black value will be generated from the profile data.

Steve
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