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post #1 of 26 Old 03-22-2019, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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eeColor box

hello all,
been a long while since i regularly posted here.
do to things,,,,, i haven't spent time keeping up with my cal skills and current technology.

i recently purchased an eeColor lut box and been trying to figure it out.

my first attempt was on a ccfl/lcd (one i use for a test bed.)
I did a quick cal on it and was about 75 percent from a full cal.
did a quick white point and gamma tune and no color work.
it had a slight blue push but otherwise was a better than ootb condition.

so i do the full 64 point cube run using calman.
the after test run showed less that 1 de across the board. great i think.
watch some content and thought it was a nice picture.
then i noticed some blue and green posturization in bright white scenes. this tv has never had any issues like this.
OK, i must have done something wrong.
reset the box lut, chose a OOTB pict mode and ran the cube again.
the after verification showed the white point off and an average of 5 de from starting with an average of 10 de.
watched content and the blue/green posturization is still present.
reset, changed from rgb limited to ycbcr 444 and 422 and get exact same error number and blue green artifacts.

anyone run across this? any testing to determine what is going wrong?

calman2016/eyei1display pro/eye1pro/ off screen/ built in pattern generator/ warmed up meters and tv.

thanks for any help
rick

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post #2 of 26 Old 03-22-2019, 09:35 PM
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I am sure Ted will be able to help. In the mean time, if you feel like doing it again, try profiling the i1Display pro with i1 Pro again. You haven't mentioned what your display is. I take it that you have profiled the meter and it is not in the default ccfl/lcd mode.
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-22-2019, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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i profile the display pro every time i use it.
i don't have a saved profile.

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post #4 of 26 Old 03-22-2019, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
i don't have a saved profile.
That might be a problem. It's been a while since I created a meter profile, but IIRC CalMAN's meter profiling tool needs to save the new profile when you exit so the meter can pick it up and use it.

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post #5 of 26 Old 03-22-2019, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
That might be a problem. It's been a while since I created a meter profile, but IIRC CalMAN's meter profiling tool needs to save the new profile when you exit so the meter can pick it up and use it.
i create a new one each session.
it is stored anyway.

i validate the profile each time also.
i use my spectro each time to train the display pro.

once i verify the offsets i do the work.

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post #6 of 26 Old 03-23-2019, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
then i noticed some blue and green posturization in bright white scenes. this tv has never had any issues like this.
OK, i must have done something wrong.
reset the box lut, chose a OOTB pict mode and ran the cube again.
the after verification showed the white point off and an average of 5 de from starting with an average of 10 de.
watched content and the blue/green posturization is still present.
reset, changed from rgb limited to ycbcr 444 and 422 and get exact same error number and blue green artifacts.

anyone run across this? any testing to determine what is going wrong?

thanks for any help
rick
I had a version of this problem (banding - green and violet) in white as well as some banding in a brown object and sky but I was experimenting with the box for UHD (down rez to 1080p so it would pass). I don't see this issue with BD content. Ted told me it was likely due to the box not being able to handle the color data and brightness difference associated with UHD. If you are doing only BD or DVD I would check peak white to see how bright you are trying to be (more than 100 nits?). Otherwise I would ping @ConnecTEDDD as he knows everything there is about these boxes and then some.
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-23-2019, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
I had a version of this problem (banding - green and violet) in white as well as some banding in a brown object and sky but I was experimenting with the box for UHD (down rez to 1080p so it would pass). I don't see this issue with BD content. Ted told me it was likely due to the box not being able to handle the color data and brightness difference associated with UHD. If you are doing only BD or DVD I would check peak white to see how bright you are trying to be (more than 100 nits?). Otherwise I would ping @ConnecTEDDD as he knows everything there is about these boxes and then some.
interesting.
it is a standard def 1080 tv.
set for @ 24 fft brightness.
not pushing the contrast to a high setting.

no clipping.

does make me think though.

helps point to user (me) error not the box.

did you use calman or something else to build the lut?

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post #8 of 26 Old 03-23-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
interesting.
it is a standard def 1080 tv.
set for @ 24 fft brightness.
not pushing the contrast to a high setting.

no clipping.

does make me think though.

helps point to user (me) error not the box.

did you use calman or something else to build the lut?
I use LightSpace and have done characterizations with small and up to the app's limit (which is less than eeColor will do max) and haven't seen this; doesn't mean it is all on you though. Also, check to make sure your patch generator and the entire chain is in synch with your tv, e.g., RGB 8-bit, limited (video) to prevent conversion errors that might be present.
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-23-2019, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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success.
reset the box with truvue software.
ran it again and this time it worked.
definitely a user error.

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post #10 of 26 Old 03-24-2019, 04:17 AM
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I m having the same problem with Madvr 3dlut and calman when running long patches not with Lightning LUT, been trying everything and cant fix it yet..

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post #11 of 26 Old 03-24-2019, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
hello all,
been a long while since i regularly posted here.
do to things,,,,, i haven't spent time keeping up with my cal skills and current technology.

i recently purchased an eeColor lut box and been trying to figure it out.

my first attempt was on a ccfl/lcd (one i use for a test bed.)
I did a quick cal on it and was about 75 percent from a full cal.
did a quick white point and gamma tune and no color work.
it had a slight blue push but otherwise was a better than ootb condition.

so i do the full 64 point cube run using calman.
the after test run showed less that 1 de across the board. great i think.
watch some content and thought it was a nice picture.
then i noticed some blue and green posturization in bright white scenes. this tv has never had any issues like this.
OK, i must have done something wrong.
reset the box lut, chose a OOTB pict mode and ran the cube again.
the after verification showed the white point off and an average of 5 de from starting with an average of 10 de.
watched content and the blue/green posturization is still present.
reset, changed from rgb limited to ycbcr 444 and 422 and get exact same error number and blue green artifacts.

anyone run across this? any testing to determine what is going wrong?

calman2016/eyei1display pro/eye1pro/ off screen/ built in pattern generator/ warmed up meters and tv.

thanks for any help
rick
Rick,

My understanding is that the posturization you are seeing is the result of the CalMAN software, not the color box. I have similar problems with mine when doing more extended lut points. Ted can provide much more information on this. I may be changing over to LightSpace for future calibrations.

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post #12 of 26 Old 03-24-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
I recently purchased an eeColor lut box and been trying to figure it out.

my first attempt was on a ccfl/lcd (one i use for a test bed.)
I did a quick cal on it and was about 75 percent from a full cal.
did a quick white point and gamma tune and no color work.
it had a slight blue push but otherwise was a better than ootb condition.
Hi, when you want to perform 3D LUT, all parametric adjustments of a display should be ignored (any CMS, and parametric Grayscale etc.), calibration controls should be used as minimum as possible.

For preparation (pre-calibration steps) for 3D LUT display characterization, you need to select the most accurate colortemp mode, select a gamma preset that is close to your target gamma (you can use grayscale measurements to find out/compare how each preset performs), select your native display gamut setting (you can use Saturation measurements to see which is the largest gamut setting....., do contrast/brightness using some patterns and then pre-cal only your 100% White RGB balance with RGB-Gains (RGB-High to some brands) controls while you will adjust to your target Luminance using your backlight (or OLED Light) control.

After these settings (which is universal for any display you want to calibrate via 3D LUT) you will start with display characterization and after the 3D LUT correction generation, you will upload the correction to eeColor.

eeColor is just a 3D LUT table holder, when the 3D LUT generation is problematic, the results will have issues also.

To find out what is happening to your uploaded 3D LUT correction, you can locate and upload your latest 3D LUT file here (as attachment, you can zip it since it will be large file, or upload a direct download link using wetransfer.com for example).

CalMAN stores all 3D LUT files to C:\Users\your_user_name\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMA N 5 for xxxxxx\LUTs folder.

The 3D LUT file which CalMAN is generating it will be the latest you have with *.TXT extension.

When you will upload that file, I will be able to tell you an opinion about the generated 3D LUT file you are using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
calman2016/eyei1display pro/eye1pro/ off screen/ built in pattern generator/ warmed up meters and tv.
CalMAN 2016 suffering from meter profiling but, its been resolved with CalMAN 2017, but since you have CalMAN 2016, you can follow these instructions I have posted to be able to load a proper correction matrix without errors: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57264662

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-24-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
success.
reset the box with truvue software.
ran it again and this time it worked.
definitely a user error.
Resetting via TrueView software it will not reset correctly the 1D LUT tables (which are not used for calibration).

Send me msg here, to forward you the instructions about how to upload UNITY 1D LUT tables.

To see about that problem, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56401834

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, when you want to perform 3D LUT, all parametric adjustments of a display should be ignored (any CMS, and parametric Grayscale etc.), calibration controls should be used as minimum as possible.

For preparation (pre-calibration steps) for 3D LUT display characterization, you need to select the most accurate colortemp mode, select a gamma preset that is close to your target gamma (you can use grayscale measurements to find out/compare how each preset performs), select your native display gamut setting (you can use Saturation measurements to see which is the largest gamut setting....., do contrast/brightness using some patterns and then pre-cal only your 100% White RGB balance with RGB-Gains (RGB-High to some brands) controls while you will adjust to your target Luminance using your backlight (or OLED Light) control.

After these settings (which is universal for any display you want to calibrate via 3D LUT) you will start with display characterization and after the 3D LUT correction generation, you will upload the correction to eeColor.

eeColor is just a 3D LUT table holder, when the 3D LUT generation is problematic, the results will have issues also.

To find out what is happening to your uploaded 3D LUT correction, you can locate and upload your latest 3D LUT file here (as attachment, you can zip it since it will be large file, or upload a direct download link using wetransfer.com for example).

CalMAN stores all 3D LUT files to C:\Users\your_user_name\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMA N 5 for xxxxxx\LUTs folder.

The 3D LUT file which CalMAN is generating it will be the latest you have with *.TXT extension.

When you will upload that file, I will be able to tell you an opinion about the generated 3D LUT file you are using.



CalMAN 2016 suffering from meter profiling but, its been resolved with CalMAN 2017, but since you have CalMAN 2016, you can follow these instructions I have posted to be able to load a proper correction matrix without errors: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57264662
i was under the impression calman 5.7.0 had the fix of meter profiling?




Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Resetting via TrueView software it will not reset correctly the 1D LUT tables (which are not used for calibration).

Send me msg here, to forward you the instructions about how to upload UNITY 1D LUT tables.

To see about that problem, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56401834
this is interesting.
the instructions from calman basically to ignore the 1D profile page of the workflow and use the 3D one only.

makes me wonder about the whole process.
if the eecolor holds both 1D and 3D i want to use that feature.

the truvue software put the box back to original state.
which sounds like has a 1D and 3D matrix?

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post #15 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
For preparation (pre-calibration steps) for 3D LUT display characterization, you need to select the most accurate colortemp mode, select a gamma preset that is close to your target gamma (you can use grayscale measurements to find out/compare how each preset performs), select your native display gamut setting (you can use Saturation measurements to see which is the largest gamut setting....., do contrast/brightness using some patterns and then pre-cal only your 100% White RGB balance with RGB-Gains (RGB-High to some brands) controls while you will adjust to your target Luminance using your backlight (or OLED Light) control.
Ted, for Sony they have a "NO GAMMA" setting and it may be a better choice instead of selecting one of the gamma presets. For the custom EOTF BT2020/HDR I did experimenting with the new Image Director export function in LS it gave a better result. I haven't tried it yet with a standard gamma (2.2/2.4) but I will soon. Worth checking out anyway.
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
i was under the impression calman 5.7.0 had the fix of meter profiling?

Problem resolved with CalMAN 2017 (5.8.1), all earlier version have meter profiling bug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
this is interesting.
the instructions from calman basically to ignore the 1D profile page of the workflow and use the 3D one only.

makes me wonder about the whole process.
if the eecolor holds both 1D and 3D i want to use that feature.
eeColor has 1D LUT but its not for calibration, for that reason you ignore 1D LUT

Only 3D should perform. When eeColor released, CalMAN was performing 1D LUT also, but they found out that it was wrong after some years, while LightSpace was not performing 1D LUT from the initial date of the eeColor support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
the truvue software put the box back to original state.
which sounds like has a 1D and 3D matrix?
As I told you earlier, TruVue is not exactly uploading the UNITY 1D LUT tables, when you press from inside CalMAN to reset, it will reset to UNITY, but when you want to reset from TrueView you have to send custom 1D LUT's (which are true UNITY), so you have to contact me to send you instructions about what files to replace to TrueView folder.

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V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

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post #17 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 05:15 PM
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@CalWldLif:

as per our recent conversation, simply create an "as good as possible" 3D LUT w/ CM.

CM is the issue - and has been forever - but I guess w/ a lot of testing you'll get a "good enough" LUT. like I said we have many Pro clients that use the box for professional work and had CM and did get to an acceptable solution. it is def NOT the box.

re 1D/3D LUT:

the 3D obviously contains a 1D, but some devices have separate 1D/3D slots - it is their implementation to attempt to achieve a high quality image when the transformations are applied.

do not worry about that w/ the ee, create a best as possible 3D LUT w/ CM - upload - and enjoy. the 3D contains the 1D, and u'll validate 1D greyscale afterwards as u would.

Or - if u don't wana buy LS - then u could also give Argyll a try as well (to get a good 3D LUT). It's free and supports the ee format but is a lot of hassle to get into.

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post #18 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks mike.
bought calman in '10. enthusiast, and the studio vs as well.
did all the work around for a good meter profile.
suffered some bugs in calman but did what i could to make it useful.
created some workflows that better severed my needs.
generally had good success.
I used the free open source program to compare readings.

great work by qwill? and others.

had a medical condition that cause me to go blind (severe cataracts) and took about 2 years to get them fixed.

so now i an see again and i am trying to get back my skillz.

i have a panny plasma vt25 that has a beautiful calibration. I wanted more control over gamma and fine tune some color errors
so i bought an eecolor box.
i use a small ccfl/lcd to do testing on.
this is where i had trouble.
put box back to factory, changed cables, and pick a different work flow.
one with out a 1D page.
the results were good.

I want to have a 1D profile and a 3D to run on top.

box has 6 presets so i want each one with different gamma curve and color offsets that will run on the djfferent curves,

is that possible and where can i get instructions on how?

thanks for your time.
rick

.

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post #19 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Resetting via TrueView software it will not reset correctly the 1D LUT tables (which are not used for calibration).

Send me msg here, to forward you the instructions about how to upload UNITY 1D LUT tables.

To see about that problem, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56401834
can we do it here?
save other people the trouble if they have the problem?

thanks

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post #20 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
thanks mike.
bought calman in '10. enthusiast, and the studio vs as well.
what is your current version of CM ?
it took CM quite a while to get the ee LUTs better

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
so now i an see again and i am trying to get back my skillz.
holy smokes, u must see things differently after that experience (no pun intended)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
i have a panny plasma vt25 that has a beautiful calibration. I wanted more control over gamma and fine tune some color errors
the ee can calibrate the panny's as good as possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
I want to have a 1D profile and a 3D to run on top..
forget the separate 1D, this is not the workflow for ee - u just need 3D, which contains the 1D

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post #21 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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my first cube run was using the latest release 2018.
the successful one was using 5.7.0
which i read had the meter matrix fixed,

my maint is paid up.
i am trying to find the version i like and that runs my custom workflows.
i was happy with ver 5.5.6
seems every release after that something is taken away. design mode for one.
then the must activate on line throws a crimp in my working method.

i have a powerful pc/descktop i used to test and make custom workflows. which has been taken away.
it is convenient and has all the downloads of programs and white papers to refer to.
i learned the hardway if i install a new version in my working laptop that it corrupts the previous version making down grade impossible.
takes a lot of work to get it running again,
so i use a pc/desktop to test
at this point i don;t want to put the latest ver on my laptop
hence the test machine.
i am still tryin to figure out which version will satisfy my needs.

sees like every time i turn around there is a problem with version after version.
i can'e even get a breakdown of what was broke and if it has been fixed.

today i found out 5.8 fixed the meter profile error when i previously read it was fixed in 5.7.0/

quite the mess.

still trying to get a Handel on it all.

thanks for listening

Loving D65
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-25-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
seems like every time i turn around there is a problem with version after version.
i can'e even get a breakdown of what was broke and if it has been fixed.

today i found out 5.8 fixed the meter profile error when i previously read it was fixed in 5.7.0/

quite the mess.

yup, that is CM in a nutshell.

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
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post #23 of 26 Old 03-26-2019, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
I want to have a 1D profile and a 3D to run on top.

box has 6 presets so i want each one with different gamma curve and color offsets that will run on the djfferent curves,

is that possible and where can i get instructions on how?

thanks for your time.
rick

.
Hi Rick,

eeColor don't have 1D LUT for calibration, its has 3D LUT (which include internally 65-Point Grayscale, which is 56-Point since you performing 16-235 levels calibration).

About how to convert your profile data to other gamma targets, see the CalMAN instructions about how to re-target and create new LUT's for existing data.

https://calman.spectracal.com/how-to...-a-3d-lut.html

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #24 of 26 Old 03-26-2019, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
can we do it here?
save other people the trouble if they have the problem?

thanks
If you reset 1D LUT (and 3D LUT) from inside CalMAN, you are fine, you don't need any special instructions (no need to use TrueView).

The special instructions are for those who want to do that using TrueView application.

If you have LightSpace, do that it says 'Replacing 1D LUTs: https://www.lightillusion.com/eecolor_manual.html

If you have LightSpace but you want a quicker way, you ask me for instructions: https://displaycalibrations.com/contact_us.html

(My eeColor customers get these instructions automatically with the order, how to upload with LightSpace/DisplayCAL or CalMAN etc.)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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... or simply read this (which I know u have already):

eeColor workflow guide and setup instructions

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
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post #26 of 26 Old 03-26-2019, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
today i found out 5.8 fixed the meter profile error when i previously read it was fixed in 5.7.0/

quite the mess.
See:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Problem resolved with CalMAN 2017 (5.8.1), all earlier version have meter profiling bug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
my maint is paid up.
i am trying to find the version i like and that runs my custom workflows.
i was happy with ver 5.5.6
seems every release after that something is taken away. design mode for one.
CalMAN Home 2019 will not have 3D LUT for eeColor/Lumagen/madVR, no custom workflows, no annual fees, since you get 12 months updates after the order and you have to re-buy entire CM Home software again to get another 12 months of updates.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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