Help please: DVDO AVLab TPG/CalMAN settings - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 04-05-2019, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Help please: DVDO AVLab TPG/CalMAN settings

I've been calibrating my Sony A1E for a while using Ted's calibration disc and CalMAN Home Enthusiast, and decided to make my life easier by upgrading to a DVDO AVLab TPG. Unfortunately, this opens up several new settings I haven't had to consider before, for both the TPG and CalMAN; it would be great if I could get some advice on how to get going. I've looked at the manuals and support sites, but other than basic connection info, I've been unable to find the specifics I'm looking for.

Question 1: what should the DVDO output be set to?
I'm generally familiar with YCbCr, RGB, video range, chroma subsampling, bit depth, but I really don't understand how it should all come together when doing a SDR calibration. My understanding is the signal coming into the TV is YCbCr, so if I'm letting the TV do the scaling to 4K, should I be using 1080p60, YCbCr, 4:4:4, 12 bit? Or I could choose 4K/60 - but that only allows 4:2:0, 8 bit.

Question 2: what are the proper settings for the DVDO in CalMAN?
Window Size: There are a lot of options in here. I know I want a small window size for an OLED; my guess is APL10 (vs. Window 10%) to minimize the chances of the ABL kicking in on the TV?
Delay: Leave at default?
Pattern Size: ? I would have thought this control and the Pattern APL control were linked to the Window Size setting, but they seem to be independent
Pattern APL: ? Same comment as above
Input Range: Limited (16-235)?
Output Range: Limited?
Color Format: I presume the same as the DVDO output? The only options are RGB, YC4:4:4, or YC4:2:2 (which I guess means I can't use 4K/60, 4:2:0 on the DVDO even if I wanted to)
Specialty Patterns: Ignore this one?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 08:25 AM
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YCbCr is Limited only. RGB can be either Limited or Full.

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post #3 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 11:02 AM
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good question.
cable boxes put out ycbcr 444 in limited 16-235 range.
I have been reading that HDR rgb full 0-255 is used for some reason.
I have also read that there is a ycbcr that is full 0-255.
something about 4k and HDR,

the sony thread has some info about what color space to use.

was a time when ycbcr 16-235 was proper for HD.
I have found though that some tvs actually look better after calibrating with rgb 16-235.
even though ycbcr shows as good a cal as rgb using a ycbcr cable box..

so i also would like a place to discuss what is right.
also ABL seems to be on HDR tvs even when not an oled.

which brings in "looks like the right gamma" problems.

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Last edited by CalWldLif; 04-06-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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post #4 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks CalWldLif; glad to see I'm not the only one confused by this stuff. Since my original post I've received some feedback from Spectracal and DVDO, but I'm still not clear on these settings. The tech from DVDO didn't seem too confident in the information provided, but said to put the AVLab in 4K/60, YCbCr, 4:2:0. Spectracal replied with the following:

Window Size: 10%
Delay: You can use CalMAN's optimize, but .50-.75 is usually good
Pattern Size: Leave alone (the window size setting will display the correct pattern)
Pattern APL: Leave alone
Input Range: Limited
Output Range: Limited
Color Format: RGB

I tried these settings today, and the first thing I noticed was the DVDO onscreen menu looked a little weird at 4K/60; sort of stretched horizontally and squished vertically. Anyways, thought I would take some readings, then put the DVDO in a different mode to compare. However, when I went back to the DVDO menu after the first set of readings, it was at 1080p/60, RGB (16-235) - so it looks like CalMAN was controlling the DVDO settings.

Unless someone else can confirm, I'll need to check in with Spectracal/DVDO next week and ask whether CalMAN does control the DVDO settings; if so, that makes things a bit more simple.

I guess my remaining question is why Spectracal said to use RGB, instead of the available YC444 or YC422. I thought video signals to the TV arrived as YCbCr, so why would RGB used to calibrate?

Maybe Ted, D-Nice, or jrref can weigh in on these settings/observations.

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Paradigm Studio 60 Mains, CC-570 Center, (2) ADP-470 Surrounds | (4) Golden Ear Invisa HTR-7000 height | (2) SVS SB16-Ultra
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post #5 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTracey View Post
Thanks CalWldLif; glad to see I'm not the only one confused by this stuff. Since my original post I've received some feedback from Spectracal and DVDO, but I'm still not clear on these settings. The tech from DVDO didn't seem too confident in the information provided, but said to put the AVLab in 4K/60, YCbCr, 4:2:0. Spectracal replied with the following:

Window Size: 10%
Delay: You can use CalMAN's optimize, but .50-.75 is usually good
Pattern Size: Leave alone (the window size setting will display the correct pattern)
Pattern APL: Leave alone
Input Range: Limited
Output Range: Limited
Color Format: RGB

I tried these settings today, and the first thing I noticed was the DVDO onscreen menu looked a little weird at 4K/60; sort of stretched horizontally and squished vertically. Anyways, thought I would take some readings, then put the DVDO in a different mode to compare. However, when I went back to the DVDO menu after the first set of readings, it was at 1080p/60, RGB (16-235) - so it looks like CalMAN was controlling the DVDO settings.

Unless someone else can confirm, I'll need to check in with Spectracal/DVDO next week and ask whether CalMAN does control the DVDO settings; if so, that makes things a bit more simple.

I guess my remaining question is why Spectracal said to use RGB, instead of the available YC444 or YC422. I thought video signals to the TV arrived as YCbCr, so why would RGB used to calibrate?

Maybe Ted, D-Nice, or jrref can weigh in on these settings/observations.
Not all sources output YCbCr. Our FiOS boxes output RGB. However, calibration programs send RGB triplets to pattern generators. Using RGB out avoids a conversion to YCbCr and the possibility of rounding errors in the generator.

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post #6 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Not all sources output YCbCr. Our FiOS boxes output RGB. However, calibration programs send RGB triplets to pattern generators. Using RGB out avoids a conversion to YCbCr and the possibility of rounding errors in the generator.
rgb on set top?
interesting.

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post #7 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
rgb on set top?
interesting.
Yes, RGB on set top.

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post #8 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 03:25 PM
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been a while since i was in a fios box.
guess they added the rgb option along side the ycbcr or i never noticed..
cool.

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post #9 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 03:58 PM
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My bad, I take that back. I just double-checked, and the FiOS boxes are YCbCr 4:4:4. Our previous DISH Network boxes were RGB, with no provision for YCbCr.

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post #10 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
My bad, I take that back. I just double-checked, and the FiOS boxes are YCbCr 4:4:4. Our previous DISH Network boxes were RGB, with no provision for YCbCr.
just read you can put it in rgb.
hidden menu.
may be grayed out.
I wish charter boxes had more settings.

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post #11 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
My bad, I take that back. I just double-checked, and the FiOS boxes are YCbCr 4:4:4. Our previous DISH Network boxes were RGB, with no provision for YCbCr.
Regardless, I think your point is to calibrate using RGB to avoid any conversion errors that may occur from inputting a YCbCr signal - is that correct?

(I'm pretty sure my Apple TV 4K outputs YCbCr.....)

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post #12 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTracey View Post
Regardless, I think your point is to calibrate using RGB to avoid any conversion errors that may occur from inputting a YCbCr signal - is that correct?

(I'm pretty sure my Apple TV 4K outputs YCbCr.....)
I'm saying that may be why SpectraCal CS told you to use it.

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post #13 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I'm saying that may be why SpectraCal CS told you to use it.
Got it, thanks

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post #14 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 06:26 PM
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don't know if this helps
Attached Files
File Type: zip After you have setup DVDO to generate 4.zip (616.0 KB, 7 views)
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post #15 of 15 Old 04-06-2019, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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don't know if this helps
Thanks, but that document is for using LightSpace, not CalMAN

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