Calman Home for Sony 2019 - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 283 Old 08-12-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by priitv8 View Post
You can build a pixel-perfect PG yourself from Raspberry Pi and PGenerator software. Total cost (incl SD card, enclosure and power supply) around $50.
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
As long as you're happy with RGB Full only. AFAIK, it still isn't suitable with YCbCr.
Raspberry Pi 2 Model B / Pi 3 Model B / Pi 3 Model B+ models are supported currently.

DeviceControl is the interface for the PGenerator settings:



You can generate bit-perfect RGB-Video patterns with CalMAN (just have PGenerator device range output setting @ RGB-High)...and set from CalMAN to use Video levels.

Sony require video levels patch generation anyway, so it can be YCbCr (using an external reference generator) or via PGenerator for RGB-Video.

When RGB-Video patch generation will be used (16-235) then there will no difference if the bit-depth output of the patch generator will be 8 or 10 or 12-bits.

But when YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 (not with PGenerator since with YCbCr is inaccurate, but with a reference external generator) patch generation will be used, its recommended to set the bit-depth output of the patch generator to 10 or 12-bit (not 8-bit).

Calibration software will send request of 8-bit RGB triplet values with colorspace output flag to the external reference generator processor and from there..... the RGB triplet values will be converted to YCbCr colorspace, the 3x3 colorspace conversion matrix (RGB-Video -> YCbCr) calculation (the generator is performing) will introduce some rounding errors when the output will be 8-bit, so having pre-configured the output as 10 or 12-bit, this will compensate for rounding errors.

There no 1:1 mapping between RGB and YCbCr colorspaces. There YCbCr values with no corresponding RGB values and RBG values with no corresponding YCbCr values.

Only about 60% of all RGB values can be represented in YCbCr space when you will use the same amount of bits for both triplets.

This means the most damage happens in RGB -> YCbCr when you take a 3 * 8-bit RGB triplet, convert and round it back to 3 * 8-bits of precision.

For that reason is recommended to set YCbCr colorspace bit-depth output of the external pattern generator to 10 or 12-bit, and not use 8-bit.

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Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 08-12-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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post #272 of 283 Old 08-12-2019, 10:15 PM
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Thank you for the thorough explanation!
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
But when YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 (not with PGenerator since with YCbCr is inaccurate, but with a reference external generator) patch generation will be used...
Now, the question becomes - do I even need to make concerns about calibrating with RGB / YCbCr signals? Isn't it sufficient to calibrate the display with RGB signal and call it a day?
I understand, that the signal processor inside the display may be suffering the same rounding error problems, but are they visually perceptible?
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post #273 of 283 Old 08-13-2019, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by priitv8 View Post
Thank you for the thorough explanation!Now, the question becomes - do I even need to make concerns about calibrating with RGB / YCbCr signals? Isn't it sufficient to calibrate the display with RGB signal and call it a day?
I understand, that the signal processor inside the display may be suffering the same rounding error problems, but are they visually perceptible?
Hi, the point is that you need to include to your calibration all the colorspace conversions you will have during playback also.

Internally to the display the YCrCr <-> RGB are always go back/forth multiple times, but at 16-bit precision level, all these internal conversions are included since you measure from the HDMI Input of the TV. But if you measure with RGB patterns and later you use YCbCr to HDMI Input, you skip to include that colorspace conversion to your video signal chain.

The differences are small, but there differences are you saw to the animated picture, which compares that HDMI input signal difference, a lot of colors are change with +0.5 - 1dE2000:



The Sony's guide (which I was the first to link and inform about the availability of that guide to AVSForum) recommends as you see YCbCr patch generation, just I explained for more detail the reason.

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post #274 of 283 Old 08-13-2019, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The Sony's guide (which I was the first to link and inform about the availability of that guide to AVSForum) recommends as you see YCbCr patch generation, just I explained for more detail the reason.
Thank you again! This is very good insight!
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post #275 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 04:55 AM
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Just started using Calman Home for Sony. I also have Calman Home for LG.

When using DDC with my Sony 65A1E, I only get the option of "Custom" picture mode. There is no mention or sign of "Custom for Pro1" or "Custom for Pro2"on the Picture Menu options on the TV or within Calaman.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction?

Thank you
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post #276 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Edge View Post
Just started using Calman Home for Sony. I also have Calman Home for LG.

When using DDC with my Sony 65A1E, I only get the option of "Custom" picture mode. There is no mention or sign of "Custom for Pro1" or "Custom for Pro2"on the Picture Menu options on the TV or within Calaman.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction?

Thank you
You have to download the CalMAN Bravia app from the google app store on your TV, install and then execute it. In Calman once the app is active you need to connect to the display like you do on the LG.

Update: You only get Custom PM on the legacy Sonys, the sets without CMS controls, with CalMAN Autocal. Only on the newer Sonys with the CMS controls do you get CustomPro1&2.

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Last edited by jrref; 08-14-2019 at 06:11 AM.
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post #277 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Edge View Post
Just started using Calman Home for Sony. I also have Calman Home for LG.

When using DDC with my Sony 65A1E, I only get the option of "Custom" picture mode. There is no mention or sign of "Custom for Pro1" or "Custom for Pro2"on the Picture Menu options on the TV or within Calaman.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You have to download the CalMAN Bravia app from the google app store on your TV, install and then execute it. In Calman once the app is active you need to connect to the display like you do on the LG.
The CalMAN for Bravia app requires Android 8.0

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...nmonitor&hl=en

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #278 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The CalMAN for Bravia app requires Android 8.0

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...nmonitor&hl=en
Ted, good point but it does work on the A1E and most of the legacy Sonys with the latest firmware update. I just realized looking at the post again that he had an A1E and with that set and the legacy Sonys, you only get Custom PM with Autocal and the Calman Bravia app. Only on the newer Sonys with the CMS controls do you get CustomPro1&2.

There is a workaround though if you want to calibrate more than one PM. You can select Custom, do the DDC reset, then go into CinemaPro manually using the remote, then set any user parameters like brightness, Expert1 or 2, then execute autocal. Using this method, you need to autocal Custom PM last.

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Last edited by jrref; 08-14-2019 at 06:02 AM.
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post #279 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Ted, good point but it does work on the A1E and most of the legacy Sonys with the latest firmware update. I just realized looking at the post again that he had an A1E and with that set and the legacy Sonys, you only get Custom PM with Autocal and the Calman Bravia app. Only on the newer Sonys with the CMS controls do you get CustomPro1&2.

There is a workaround though if you want to calibrate more than one PM. You can select Custom, do the DDC reset, then go into CinemaPro manually using the remote, then set any user parameters like brightness, Expert1 or 2, then execute autocal. Using this method, you need to autocal Custom PM last.
Thanks John. I already have the Calman for Bravia App on the A1 and am running Android 8. I guess I will only be able to autocal the Custom PM. I'll try your workaround for the Cinema Pro PM for a night setting.

Thanks again.
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post #280 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The CalMAN for Bravia app requires Android 8.0

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...nmonitor&hl=en
I'm running Android 8. It seems it's down to the age of the A1.
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post #281 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, the point is that you need to include to your calibration all the colorspace conversions you will have during playback also.

Internally to the display the YCrCr <-> RGB are always go back/forth multiple times, but at 16-bit precision level, all these internal conversions are included since you measure from the HDMI Input of the TV. But if you measure with RGB patterns and later you use YCbCr to HDMI Input, you skip to include that colorspace conversion to your video signal chain.

The differences are small, but there differences are you saw to the animated picture, which compares that HDMI input signal difference, a lot of colors are change with +0.5 - 1dE2000:

...

The Sony's guide (which I was the first to link and inform about the availability of that guide to AVSForum) recommends as you see YCbCr patch generation, just I explained for more detail the reason.
Do you recommend using YCbCr even when using CalMAN's internal pattern generator from a laptop's HDMI port (assuming everything is properly configured on the laptop and the drivers output correct YCbCr) or should we stick with RGB Full output/RGB Limited on display?
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post #282 of 283 Old 08-14-2019, 03:42 PM
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Do you recommend using YCbCr even when using CalMAN's internal pattern generator from a laptop's HDMI port (assuming everything is properly configured on the laptop and the drivers output correct YCbCr) or should we stick with RGB Full output/RGB Limited on display?
Hi, I was recommending YCbCr only for users with external reference generators, where they will have for sure an accurate the patch generation.

PC's are not accurate to output YCbCr (unless you test by comparing with a known reference and digital pixel analyzer)....Do you have option to select YCbCr REC.709 or YCbCr REC.2020 for example? Because its different 3x3 conversion matrix per each colorspace the VGA has to use, it will compress to video levels before converting to YCbCr (which is video levels).

The safest setting for PC is the RGB output, RGB Full from VGA and RGB-Video from CalMAN, and TV to expect video levels. But you have to see if the VGA is accurate, any loaded ICC or VCGT, enhancements/dynamic settings of VGA settings can alter your signal.
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post #283 of 283 Old 08-15-2019, 09:41 PM
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I own calman for sony Home.
I want to use the pattern generator MadTPG instead of mobileforge with Apple tv.
I use a PC on which I will apply an extended mode for the screen. (PC and Sony Oled 77AG9).
So I will connect my PC to HDMI on my Sony AG9
I do not understand the settings to apply for the Intel 620 graphics card on my PC.
What should I do ?

1- I see a madlevelstweaker program,
if I run on the pc, can I force: 0-255 and also my Sony ? What should I do ?

2-MADVR settings, for my second screen (SOny) :

Display expects RGB output - 16-235
Bit depth - 10bit, 8 bits?

for my Asus PC screen, I have to set something up?


3-Intel 620 graphics card settings:
Display - Select your secondary display and set to 1920x1080 and 23p refresh rate
Click advanced - Set quantization to full range
Color settings - Check YCbCr is disable



Go back to main
Select Video - check the current settings
Standard color - App settings
Input Range - Driver settings \ full range
Advanced - Color correction \ disabled
Image enhance - Sharpness \ app settings
Skin tone \ disabled
Image scaling \ disabled
Gamut mapping \ disabled




merci

Last edited by Masterwarzombie; 08-15-2019 at 10:25 PM.
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