Calman Home for Sony 2019 - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 395 Old 09-29-2019, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
It could be worse. At least the 20-point Advance Color Temperature settings don’️t need to be re-entered.
Yes, these are connected to color temperature mode only (eg Expert 1).
The hierarchy of Sony picture settings is described very nicely on page 9 of this document: http://sonyglobal.akamaized.net/is/c...AN-updated.pdf
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post #332 of 395 Old 09-29-2019, 04:59 PM
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I see there's a new version of CalMAN. I wonder if the 3D LUT upgrades would lead to a better calibration?

I'm so happy with mine as is I hate to recalibrate. (I still lack the ability to send a signal in 4K as well, so 1080P is the best I can do at the moment.)

I have noticed an interesting bug a few times (at least on the Z9F). Seems to happen when I was last in an app (like YouTube) on the TV. Sometimes I'll be watching content (say, my DVR, which is on HDMI1) and everything is set right (Brightness to 9 in my case, Temperature to Expert 1), but it's clearly NOT those. Either brightness is jacked way up or color temperature is quite cool-looking; I've seen both. A toggle of either Picture mode (Custom Pro 1 to Custom Pro 2 and then back) or change to whichever setting is effected (Brightness to 10, then back to 9 OR Color Temperature to Expert 2, then back to Expert 1) resolves it immediately. It's like the TV forgets what setting it's on til that information is refreshed. Doesn't happen super often, but I've noticed it maybe 4 times now in the last several months.

I've also had it go improperly into HDR in the Twitch app several times.
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post #333 of 395 Old 09-29-2019, 05:50 PM
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I have never experienced anything like what you describe.
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post #334 of 395 Old 09-29-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
I see there's a new version of CalMAN. I wonder if the 3D LUT upgrades would lead to a better calibration?



I'm so happy with mine as is I hate to recalibrate. (I still lack the ability to send a signal in 4K as well, so 1080P is the best I can do at the moment.)



I have noticed an interesting bug a few times (at least on the Z9F). Seems to happen when I was last in an app (like YouTube) on the TV. Sometimes I'll be watching content (say, my DVR, which is on HDMI1) and everything is set right (Brightness to 9 in my case, Temperature to Expert 1), but it's clearly NOT those. Either brightness is jacked way up or color temperature is quite cool-looking; I've seen both. A toggle of either Picture mode (Custom Pro 1 to Custom Pro 2 and then back) or change to whichever setting is effected (Brightness to 10, then back to 9 OR Color Temperature to Expert 2, then back to Expert 1) resolves it immediately. It's like the TV forgets what setting it's on til that information is refreshed. Doesn't happen super often, but I've noticed it maybe 4 times now in the last several months.



I've also had it go improperly into HDR in the Twitch app several times.


Only LG TVs use 3D LUTs with CalMAN AutoCal. Sony, Panasonic and Samsung do not.
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post #335 of 395 Old 09-29-2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Only LG TVs use 3D LUTs with CalMAN AutoCal. Sony, Panasonic and Samsung do not.
Ahh didn't realize! Good to know! So sounds like there's not much reason to recalibrate in R2 then unless you have an LG. Thanks for the clarification! =)

AustinJerry, re those bugs, it seems tied to use of the built-in apps, especially YouTube and Twitch, so it might depend on if you use those, OR it might be something else with my configuration. Hard to say. I doubt it has a thing to do with the calibration itself though.
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post #336 of 395 Old 09-30-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
Ahh didn't realize! Good to know! So sounds like there's not much reason to recalibrate in R2 then unless you have an LG. Thanks for the clarification! =)

AustinJerry, re those bugs, it seems tied to use of the built-in apps, especially YouTube and Twitch, so it might depend on if you use those, OR it might be something else with my configuration. Hard to say. I doubt it has a thing to do with the calibration itself though.
Well, you need to make sure that built-in apps have the proper picture settings. For each internal app, launch the app and then verify that it is using the proper settings. Once you have the right settings, they should not randomly change.

For example, when you use the internal Netflix app, you could be using standard SDR, standard HDR, Dolby Vision, or Netflix Calibrated mode. Each of these could have its own settings, so make sure you check each.
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post #337 of 395 Old 09-30-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, you need to make sure that built-in apps have the proper picture settings. For each internal app, launch the app and then verify that it is using the proper settings. Once you have the right settings, they should not randomly change.

For example, when you use the internal Netflix app, you could be using standard SDR, standard HDR, Dolby Vision, or Netflix Calibrated mode. Each of these could have its own settings, so make sure you check each.
I appreciate the attempt to help - thank you! But it's definitely not a picture settings issue. Besides my input (HDMI1 since all receiver content goes through that), all internal apps (Netflix, YouTube and other video apps), etc. are all configured to Custom for Pro 1, as well as my brightness (9) and color temperature (Expert 1) for each mode and the HDR/DV/Netflix Calibrated variants of those modes...I even copied over the Per Color Adjustments for each individual mode. (This is actually the most tedious part post-calibration). Whatever happens on these rare occasions, if you scroll through the menus, everything reads as the correct setting from Picture Mode to Brightness to Color Temperature; it just very clearly isn't what's showing. For example, it may show Expert 1 as the Color Temperature but have a much cooler appearance than usual. Toggling that setting to literally anything else and back seems to correct the issue, as does toggling the Picture Mode itself to anything else and back. It's weird. (But it's rare, easily noticed, and quickly fixable, so I'm not that bothered by it - it's just strange.)
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post #338 of 395 Old 09-30-2019, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
I appreciate the attempt to help - thank you! But it's definitely not a picture settings issue. Besides my input (HDMI1 since all receiver content goes through that), all internal apps (Netflix, YouTube and other video apps), etc. are all configured to Custom for Pro 1, as well as my brightness (9) and color temperature (Expert 1) for each mode and the HDR/DV/Netflix Calibrated variants of those modes...I even copied over the Per Color Adjustments for each individual mode. (This is actually the most tedious part post-calibration). Whatever happens on these rare occasions, if you scroll through the menus, everything reads as the correct setting from Picture Mode to Brightness to Color Temperature; it just very clearly isn't what's showing. For example, it may show Expert 1 as the Color Temperature but have a much cooler appearance than usual. Toggling that setting to literally anything else and back seems to correct the issue, as does toggling the Picture Mode itself to anything else and back. It's weird. (But it's rare, easily noticed, and quickly fixable, so I'm not that bothered by it - it's just strange.)
I have actually had this happen a few times. Switching from a darker mode, to brighter mode and it stays on the darker mode. That switch fixes it though, so far.
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post #339 of 395 Old 10-08-2019, 11:43 AM
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So I purchased the Calman Home for Sony, I have an X900F. According to the chart on Portrait Displays website (attached), the X900F should support full AutoCal with the 20 point grayscale, color gamut and luminance. When I get to the DDC reset stage I only see "custom" and when i click on full DDC reset, it causes the program to hang. I see a flashing gray indicator on the Bravia source tab, and then if I try to reopen the Calman for Bravia app on the TV it just shows "disconnected" and then I'm not able to re-add it into the Calman software, so I end up having to close the software and start over. But I get stuck at the DDC reset page again and can't proceed in the workflow

I emailed support and this is what I got...

"The X900F will only give you one picture mode, not two as with some other models. This does not prevent you from performing AutoCal in any way."


I've fully uninstalled and re-installed the Calman software, and even factory reset my TV and checked it's running the latest firmware, so not sure what else I can do at this point.

Does anyone with the X900F have the Custom for Pro 1 and 2 settings available to them in the software?
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post #340 of 395 Old 10-08-2019, 12:06 PM
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So I purchased the Calman Home for Sony, I have an X900F. According to the chart on Portrait Displays website (attached), the X900F should support full AutoCal with the 20 point grayscale, color gamut and luminance.
I think you're right there. According to the list you have attached, it is in a bold typeface, so gets 20-point greyscale, colour gamut, and luminance.

Quote:
I emailed support and this is what I got...

"The X900F will only give you one picture mode, not two as with some other models. This does not prevent you from performing AutoCal in any way."
That's as maybe but I really wish the document could be updated to make it clear that some models only give one picture mode, and which ones they are, and why.

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post #341 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jlcpremier View Post
So I purchased the Calman Home for Sony, I have an X900F. According to the chart on Portrait Displays website (attached), the X900F should support full AutoCal with the 20 point grayscale, color gamut and luminance.
Z9D and A1E which are listed with bold letters (as 20-Point RGB + CMS), they have 10-Point RGB balance and no CMS, the list need some corrections.
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post #342 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 12:59 PM
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I ran through a couple calibrations last night. I tried out both AutoCal and manual calibrations. Tried both the builtin pattern generator and MobileForge on different calibrations. I didn't do AutoCal or set the levels for luminance like I should have, and I was experiencing issues being able to set dynamic contrast so I'm going to do that tonight and do a new calibration to see if that resolves it.

Since the AutoCal on my set doesn't support the CMS adjustments am I right in assuming that there are no CMS controls on the set? In video options -> color space there are only set options, with no custom option or way to adjust them.

I can't make any adjustments in the Colorspace control page then right, so just skip that? Or is that where the overall color/tint adjustments would be made? and would that have any effect on the grayscale?

I'm surprised they didn't include the gamma and color temperature pages in there from prior home versions, seems like those could be useful, but overall I'm very happy with the ease of use of the software, and my first calibrations made a massive difference in the quality of my picture!
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post #343 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jlcpremier View Post
I ran through a couple calibrations last night. I tried out both AutoCal and manual calibrations. Tried both the builtin pattern generator and MobileForge on different calibrations. I didn't do AutoCal or set the levels for luminance like I should have, and I was experiencing issues being able to set dynamic contrast so I'm going to do that tonight and do a new calibration to see if that resolves it.

Since the AutoCal on my set doesn't support the CMS adjustments am I right in assuming that there are no CMS controls on the set? In video options -> color space there are only set options, with no custom option or way to adjust them.

I can't make any adjustments in the Colorspace control page then right, so just skip that? Or is that where the overall color/tint adjustments would be made? and would that have any effect on the grayscale?

I'm surprised they didn't include the gamma and color temperature pages in there from prior home versions, seems like those could be useful, but overall I'm very happy with the ease of use of the software, and my first calibrations made a massive difference in the quality of my picture!
With what device are you using the MobileForge?

When you take Dynamic contrast measurements what range are you testing? Dynamic Range Clipping or Dynamic Range Clipping with Peak?

For CMS, after the end of he grayscale, you can practice with Color / Tint (global) settings to see how they are improve your color gamut.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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post #344 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 02:28 PM
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With what device are you using the MobileForge?

When you take Dynamic contrast measurements what range are you testing? Dynamic Range Clipping or Dynamic Range Clipping with Peak?

For CMS, after the end of he grayscale, you can practice with Color / Tint (global) settings to see how they are improve your color gamut.
MobileForge iOS with Apple TV 4K set to 4K SDR YCbcr and 4.2.0 output

I tried both but it didn't seem to matter what changes i was making to the brightness and contrast, the graph stayed the same. I'm guessing once I properly set the luminance to around 100, that should make a difference as I think it was just on max the whole time.

Ok great that's what I was wondering. Changing color/tint won't mess up the grayscale will it? (probably a dumb question but I'm new to this expert calibration stuff)
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post #345 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jlcpremier View Post
MobileForge iOS with Apple TV 4K set to 4K SDR YCbcr and 4.2.0 output

I tried both but it didn't seem to matter what changes i was making to the brightness and contrast, the graph stayed the same. I'm guessing once I properly set the luminance to around 100, that should make a difference as I think it was just on max the whole time.

Ok great that's what I was wondering. Changing color/tint won't mess up the grayscale will it? (probably a dumb question but I'm new to this expert calibration stuff)
Expect some digital errors with ATV and MobileForge, people with signal analyser have found (not me), but I have gathered all info here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58624796

Be sure you have expanded video to PC Levels to your CalMAN.

The reason you don't see any difference between Dynamic Range Clipping (up to 100% White) measurements versus Dynamic Range Clipping with Peak (up to 109% Super White) is because with MobileForge you can't generate patterns beyond 100% White, so the patterns you generate 100-109% will not have any difference as the Y if them will be exact the same.

Select to measure Dynamic Range with Clip only.

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post #346 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Expect some digital errors with ATV and MobileForge, people with signal analyser have found (not me), but I have gathered all info here

Be sure you have expanded video to PC Levels to your CalMAN.

The reason you don't see any difference between Dynamic Range Clipping (up to 100% White) measurements versus Dynamic Range Clipping with Peak (up to 109% Super White) is because with MobileForge you can't generate patterns beyond 100% White, so the patterns you generate 100-109% will not have any difference as the Y if them will be exact the same.

Select to measure Dynamic Range with Clip only.
So is sticking with my Surface Pro 4 (intel HD graphics 520), 4K res, with HDMI out and color output to sRGB, TV set to limited HDMI format and using the builtin generator window in CalMan...the better option then?
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post #347 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 03:37 PM
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So is sticking with my Surface Pro 4 (intel HD graphics 520), 4K res, with HDMI out and color output to sRGB, TV set to limited HDMI format and using the builtin generator window in CalMan...the better option then?
If you are using the ATV for playback of content also, then use that one for AutoCAL of grayscale. as the digital errors in grayscale are small.

But when you will check gamut, the green error is 1dE.

So its a better idea for Color gamut to playback some patterns as Media Files.

Its unknown if your Surface will be OK, as any active ICC, VCGT, enhancements of Intel (if there any enabled) can alter your output. If you manage to disable all that, with RGB output full range of Video Card, CalMAN video level setting (not expand to PC level) and to your Sony to check that TV will expect Limited range, it will be the correct settings.

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post #348 of 395 Old 10-09-2019, 07:38 PM
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Based on the chart on Portrait Display, the my X940E supports CMS calibration through CalMAN Home. However, no CMS controls exist in the Sony picture settings menu on the TV. Is this an error?
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post #349 of 395 Old 10-10-2019, 01:00 AM
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Based on the chart on Portrait Display, the my X940E supports CMS calibration through CalMAN Home. However, no CMS controls exist in the Sony picture settings menu on the TV. Is this an error?
When you will install the CalMAN for BRAVIA App, only the installation of that app will unlock some hidden controls, like 20p GS, CMS or new picture modes.

If you see CMS controls after the installation of that app, then CalMAN can DDC them.

CalMAN DDC the normal menu available controls, not any hidden one you don't see to normal menu.

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post #350 of 395 Old 10-10-2019, 03:54 PM
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When you will install the CalMAN for BRAVIA App, only the installation of that app will unlock some hidden controls, like 20p GS, CMS or new picture modes.

If you see CMS controls after the installation of that app, then CalMAN can DDC them.

CalMAN DDC the normal menu available controls, not any hidden one you don't see to normal menu.
Ted, it's interesting. When they first came out with the Bravia app I thought I remember just the install and execute of the app turned on the extra calibration extensions without having to connect to the display with CM. Recently i'm seeing that you need to connect with CM in order for the extensions to be available.

Update: The reason why I was surprised is because if a customer has their set professionally calibrated and for some reason factory resets the TV, there is no easy way to re-install the calibration settings.
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post #351 of 395 Old 10-10-2019, 04:06 PM
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Ted, it's interesting. When they first came out with the Bravia app I thought I remember just the install and execute of the app turned on the extra calibration extensions without having to connect to the display with CM. Recently i'm seeing that you need to connect with CM in order for the extensions to be available. Are there any other free programs available to connect to the Sony for those who want to the extensions but want to use other calibration software?
What a nice hiding of actual TV capabilities idea, to hide normal OSD controls from Sony TV customers.

There free way to DDC Panasonic (even GZ2000) / Sony's, with Full DDC, it exist for a lot of years, I will post some instructions another day to different thread.
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post #352 of 395 Old 10-14-2019, 02:45 AM
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CALMAN FOR SONY - i1DISPLAY PRO ISSUE


Tried to calibrate Sony AG9 with the following: Calman Home for Sony, i1Display Pro, PGenerator or mF/FireTV.
The meter is a retail version dated June 2019.

Calman recognizes well all the hardware.

The calibration starts correctly but during pre-calibration process, after 5-6 readings (grey scale), errors occur, saying something like "diffuser position error". Obviously the diffuser is off. I am waiting for calman support answers but I would like to check if anyone had the same issue.
Beside, the 5-6 readings are totally inconsistent, giving dE between 40 to 140 %!!
The meter itself works perfectly with other software.


Thank you all for replies.
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post #353 of 395 Old 10-14-2019, 04:08 AM
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The calibration starts correctly but during pre-calibration process, after 5-6 readings (grey scale), errors occur, saying something like "diffuser position error". Obviously the diffuser is off. I am waiting for calman support answers but I would like to check if anyone had the same issue.

Beside, the 5-6 readings are totally inconsistent, giving dE between 40 to 140 %!!

The meter itself works perfectly with other software.
As we have talked about your problem via email, there is a small magnet inside the ambient light cover which X-Rite i1Display PRO is using to signaling using a Hall effect sensor which is the cover position.

When you take measurements, you have positioned the ambient cover at its natural position, 180-degree away from the measuring lens:



So its not normal to have that error msg, as other calibration software you have used don't have any problem.

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post #354 of 395 Old 10-21-2019, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So its not normal to have that error msg, as other calibration software you have used don't have any problem.

Finally, believe or not, SpectraCAL did not answer at all to my technical issues, but they answered quickly as soon as I asked for a refund, done in one day. In four days SpectraCAL did not provide with nothing useful to solve the technical issue.


In the end I lose money because of the exchange processes (I live in the Euro area). Most of all, in the end I lost a lot of my precious time trying to make CalMAN Home for Sony work, to no avail!



Meanwhile ConnecTEDDD helped me with at least a dozen of email, trying to troubleshoot the issue.


I wanto to thank ConnecTEDDD for his helpfulness, so appreciated.



If the issue would have a solution is a question which is still open for SpectraCAL support!
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post #355 of 395 Old 10-21-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon70lm View Post
CALMAN FOR SONY - i1DISPLAY PRO ISSUE


Tried to calibrate Sony AG9 with the following: Calman Home for Sony, i1Display Pro, PGenerator or mF/FireTV.
The meter is a retail version dated June 2019.

Calman recognizes well all the hardware.

The calibration starts correctly but during pre-calibration process, after 5-6 readings (grey scale), errors occur, saying something like "diffuser position error". Obviously the diffuser is off. I am waiting for calman support answers but I would like to check if anyone had the same issue.
Beside, the 5-6 readings are totally inconsistent, giving dE between 40 to 140 %!!
The meter itself works perfectly with other software.


Thank you all for replies.

We have never had anyone else report this issue before. We have been unable to replicate it in house.

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - for CalMAN

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post #356 of 395 Old 10-23-2019, 01:38 PM
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CalMan Sony Meter Mode Question

Tyler and others...

What is the "correct" setting in Calman Sony home - for “Meter Mode (Target Display Type)” for a X940E?

In a video I recall Tyler mentioned Raw XYZ for the i1, Mackenzie said LCD (LED Blue-Green), and still waiting to hear back from X-Rite on their recommendation.

Meter is a X-Rite i1Display Pro (EODIS3) arriving tomorrow and wanted to know how to properly configure all the elements.
Panel is Sony 75X940E
PG will be Mobile Forge on ATV4K.

Thanks,
Brett
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post #357 of 395 Old 10-23-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BL9000 View Post
Tyler and others...

What is the "correct" setting in Calman Sony home - for “Meter Mode (Target Display Type)” for a X940E?

In a video I recall Tyler mentioned Raw XYZ for the i1, Mackenzie said LCD (LED Blue-Green), and still waiting to hear back from X-Rite on their recommendation.

Meter is a X-Rite i1Display Pro (EODIS3) arriving tomorrow and wanted to know how to properly configure all the elements.
Panel is Sony 75X940E
PG will be Mobile Forge on ATV4K.

Thanks,
Brett
Hi Brett,

The spectral correction for GB-LED is included inside the RG-Phosphor selection. There not a lot of info available about what type of VA panel your Sony is using but X-Rite for the creation of the spectral correction for RG Phosphor (GB-LED) table, they used the Dell Ultrasharp U2413 (for GB-LED) and AU Optronics B156HW01 Monitors. (here you can find info about which monitors used for the creation of each table)

The monitor models (not consumer TV's) used for RG-Phosphor spectral table are very old and very different from current consumer TV displays tech.

The ideal solution is to use a spectro to create a meter correction table.

When this is not possible, there no correct answer what table to use, as its unknown which is closer to your display.

You can try to calibrate 2-point grayscale with RAW XYZ (means no loaded spectral display tech correction) and thne use another picture mode and calibrate with RG-Phosphor spectral table selected.

After that swap between these 2 picture presets while you will look a grayscale ramp pattern and see which one looks more neutral to your eyes. (its guessing method, the results can be variable, for that reason its better to use a spectro).

About MobileForge, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57067606

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post #358 of 395 Old 10-23-2019, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL9000 View Post
Meter is a X-Rite i1Display Pro (EODIS3) arriving tomorrow and wanted to know how to properly configure all the elements.

Panel is Sony 75X940E
BTW, your display at HDR mode can output about 1200 nits.

If you will get the OEM i1Display PRO, its rated up to 2000 nits.

If you will get the Retail i1Dispaly PRO, its rated up to 1000 nits.

The Retail will not stop reporting over 1000 nits, but as its rated for 1000 nits, its unknown if the reading will be reliable.

The difference above will not affect your SDR calibration.

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post #359 of 395 Old 10-27-2019, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
You can try to calibrate 2-point grayscale with RAW XYZ (means no loaded spectral display tech correction) and thne use another picture mode and calibrate with RG-Phosphor spectral table selected.

After that swap between these 2 picture presets while you will look a grayscale ramp pattern and see which one looks more neutral to your eyes. (its guessing method, the results can be variable, for that reason its better to use a spectro).
Thanks, Ted.
A/B-ing the two meter profiles makes sense; unfortunately, as this is a 2017 panel, I can only configure one picture mode (I only have "custom" and not "custom 1" & "custom 2".

Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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post #360 of 395 Old 10-27-2019, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL9000 View Post
Thanks, Ted.
A/B-ing the two meter profiles makes sense; unfortunately, as this is a 2017 panel, I can only configure one picture mode (I only have "custom" and not "custom 1" & "custom 2".

Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Perform the grayscale calibration with one (A) way....(white down the settings of that calibration).

Perform the grayscale calibration with one (B) way....(white down the settings of that calibration).

Watch some gradation and grayscale patterns with (A) way, and some specific scenes you are very familiar with....keep notes if needed.

Then apply setting (B) quickly and watch the same stuff.... and decide then which is better... A or B.
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