Calman Home for Sony 2019 - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 403 Old 11-08-2019, 02:55 PM
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Hey Guys, i habe a big Problem with Autocal my Sony x940e. The x940e have a problem that it has imagerentation. The IRE10 and 20 are because of that too britgh. Have someone a tip?
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post #362 of 403 Old 11-08-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Hey Guys, i habe a big Problem with Autocal my Sony x940e. The x940e have a problem that it has imagerentation. The IRE10 and 20 are because of that too britgh. Have someone a tip?
Without seeing the problem we can't give you a tip but why don't you try e-mailing Portrait Display (Calman) support? Send them you scans and your setup and they will help you quicker.

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post #363 of 403 Old 11-09-2019, 03:34 AM
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Thank you for your answare but i solf this problem

But i have a nother. In the Youtubevideo from calman the guy said that in application measurememt options he use on autocal targets - deltaE formula - de_ITP, It gives him besser results then de2000. Is that truth?
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post #364 of 403 Old 11-09-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Thank you for your answare but i solf this problem

But i have a nother. In the Youtubevideo from calman the guy said that in application measurememt options he use on autocal targets - deltaE formula - de_ITP, It gives him besser results then de2000. Is that truth?
Try both and see which works better for your setup. deITP should give you a little better accuracy.
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post #365 of 403 Old 11-09-2019, 09:16 AM
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Yes i try it, but the results are minor. I have now calman home since 4 month. And i figred out that my tv is a rg phophor display type. Calman says that my xrite i1 pro don t have this option in calman, only the c6. At the moment i use LCD(LED Blue Green) Today i read a lot about to profiling my xrite with calman to my tv. Thats how i messured: to creat a profil i choose as refernce meter and target meter my xrite. PG is Mobilforge via firestick. As Display type i choose raw xyz. After that calibrated my tv again. Compare to the calalibration with LED BG its only a slight different, so its baisicly the same it have only slightly more red)

Do i something wrong?

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post #366 of 403 Old 11-09-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Yes i try it, but the results are minor. I have now calman home since 4 month. And i figred out that my tv is a rg phophor display type. Calman says that my xrite i1 pro don t have this option in calman, only the c6. At the moment i use LCD(LED Blue Green) Today i read a lot about to profiling my xrite with calman to my tv. Thats how i messured: to creat a profil i choose as refernce meter and target meter my xrite. PG is Mobilforge via firestick. As Display type i choose raw xyz. After that calibrated my tv again. Compare to the calalibration with LED BG its only a slight different, so its baisicly the same it have only slightly more red)



Do i something wrong?



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Blue-Green and RG Phosphor Are different names for the same technology. It is also sometimes called GB-R.
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post #367 of 403 Old 11-10-2019, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Yes i try it, but the results are minor. I have now calman home since 4 month. And i figred out that my tv is a rg phophor display type. Calman says that my xrite i1 pro don t have this option in calman, only the c6.
Hi, the i1Display PRO has RG Phosphor (GB-LED). This table is coming from X-Rite SDK and X-Rite used for the creation of that spectral correction for RG Phosphor (GB-LED) table the Dell Ultrasharp U2413 (for GB-LED) and AU Optronics B156HW01 Monitors.

CalMAN support had to say to you that its the same as GB-LED table (or the table to be renamed as GB-LED/RG Phosphor generally).

Use your Windows Explorer, enable hidden files/folders and see inside the C:\ProgramData\SpectraCal\Portrait Displays\CalMAN 5 Home\Data\i1D3

There you will see the all the spectral (EDR) files for i1Display PRO.

You will see that file ''RG_Phosphor_Family_25Jul12.edr''.

I have checked the latest X-Rite Device Services v3.1.7.6 or X-Rite i1Profiler 3.1.1 and they both have that file also.

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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
At the moment i use LCD(LED Blue Green) Today i read a lot about to profiling my xrite with calman to my tv. Thats how i messured: to creat a profil i choose as refernce meter and target meter my xrite.

PG is Mobilforge via firestick. As Display type i choose raw xyz. After that calibrated my tv again. Compare to the calalibration with LED BG its only a slight different, so its baisicly the same it have only slightly more red)
When you are using FireStick you have to check for your display if it will require to select from CalMAN to expand or not expand the Video to PC Levels. One of those setting will be the correct but it can be different per connected display.

You need to have output RGB from firestick, this is possible only if you forced it to output 1080p (not 2160p).

About MobileForge, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57067606

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58624800

You have to check also your TV to expect Limited range signal to the HDMI input you have connected the FireStick.

The procedure you performed for meter profiling is incorrect. See why we perform meter profiling there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...ng-thread.html

Meter profiling will require to have both a spectrophotometer (like i1PRO) to use as reference meter to profile your colorimeter (your i1Display PRO). Since you have only the i1Display PRO, then its useless and wrong to use meter profiling.

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post #368 of 403 Old 11-10-2019, 01:46 PM
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@ConnecTEDDD

Thank you a lot for your help! Its good to know that gb led is the right typ and i dont need to rent a c6.

About the fire stick. I use the old one (only 1080p) my tv output hdmi full range, and i dont find any setting in the firestick to put it on limited. If i use in calman luminace level pc and start autocal, the pragramm says: this operation is not supported for this device.

So i can only use video right?
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post #369 of 403 Old 11-10-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
@ConnecTEDDD

Thank you a lot for your help! Its good to know that gb led is the right typ and i dont need to rent a c6.

About the fire stick. I use the old one (only 1080p) my tv output hdmi full range, and i dont find any setting in the firestick to put it on limited. If i use in calman luminace level pc and start autocal, the pragramm says: this operation is not supported for this device.

So i can only use video right?
For calibration you will use video levels, as the workflows by default are using.

Amazon devices with proper settings can generate any RGB-Triplet combination for RGB-Video (16-235).

For MobileForge users, CalMAN by default will send RGB-Triplet patches with Video Levels (16-235) but it has a setting to 'Expand Video Levels to PC Levels', for some TV models this has to be enabled while to other TV models to be disabled.

You have to find out what is the correct setting for your TV, but to know this you have to use some patterns as reference, for that reason I send you the other links to realize by looking the gamma graph how large are the gamma deviation if you will not use the correct setting for your setup.

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post #370 of 403 Old 11-11-2019, 06:35 AM
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Thank so much, i read all and it helps a lot

But one thing is strange sith autocal. Iff it calabrate 100% grayscal it things that red is to low. It puch than the red slider to max. Greyscale 10-90% looks ok. After the calibration i let the software read the meassurement again and than it shows me that 100% has now too much red. So adjust it manual to bring it in line. Is this correct?
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post #371 of 403 Old 11-12-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Thank so much, i read all and it helps a lot

But one thing is strange sith autocal. Iff it calabrate 100% grayscal it things that red is to low. It puch than the red slider to max. Greyscale 10-90% looks ok. After the calibration i let the software read the meassurement again and than it shows me that 100% has now too much red. So adjust it manual to bring it in line. Is this correct?
It can happen many times one adjustment of specific control to affect other areas, so you have always take full grayscale runs and evaluate looking grayscale ramp patterns to find out that all are looking good during your adjustments and at the end of calibration.
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post #372 of 403 Old 11-12-2019, 03:29 PM
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It can happen many times one adjustment of specific control to affect other areas, so you have always take full grayscale runs and evaluate looking grayscale ramp patterns to find out that all are looking good during your adjustments and at the end of calibration.
Just to add to Ted's comments, I always manually tweak the autocal if it needs it but you can't touch the 100% since as you have seen it effects the other settings. When I use autocal for the grayscale, I always look to see how the 100% looks after the adjustment and if it doesn't look "right" to me, based on my experience, I cancel and re-start the autocal. I don't know why but sometimes the 100% doesn't get set optimally and it throws off the rest of the settings.

Another thing you can do is calibrate the 2pt first then run the 20 pt autocal. This will minimize the amount of adjustments that CM needs to make and may help you get better results.

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post #373 of 403 Old 11-14-2019, 02:33 PM
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Hey jrref

There is a possible a bug with auto cal. My white point is calibrated. Its nearly perfect. But autocal things every time(yes every time) that my 100% grayscale have not enough red. After the calibration i run the greyscale readings again and than 100% have far too much red. Than i tweak it and run the readings again. I have a average delta error about 0.4 i thing this is a good result
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post #374 of 403 Old 11-14-2019, 03:44 PM
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Hey jrref



There is a possible a bug with auto cal. My white point is calibrated. Its nearly perfect. But autocal things every time(yes every time) that my 100% grayscale have not enough red. After the calibration i run the greyscale readings again and than 100% have far too much red. Than i tweak it and run the readings again. I have a average delta error about 0.4 i thing this is a good result


Can you post a screenshot of your results?

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post #375 of 403 Old 11-14-2019, 04:08 PM
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post #376 of 403 Old 11-15-2019, 05:21 PM
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This is for the previous Bravia workflow, not the new CalMAN Home one.

I am personally recording a tutorial video next week, so it will be on our YouTube page coming very soon.
Never saw the link for the video posted? Did I miss it or still not finished? Thank you
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post #377 of 403 Old 11-15-2019, 06:24 PM
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Never saw the link for the video posted? Did I miss it or still not finished? Thank you


It is up on our Portrait Displays YouTube channel now.

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post #378 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 05:14 AM
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Never saw the link for the video posted? Did I miss it or still not finished? Thank you
You missed it . Uploaded 22nd Aug.

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post #379 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 07:50 AM
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You can build a pixel-perfect PG yourself from Raspberry Pi and PGenerator software. Total cost (incl SD card, enclosure and power supply) around $50.
Does Calman home support using this option automatically sending the correct patterns to the TV? Or do I have to select the patterns? And I know this is a Sony thread, but if I use this on a LG C9 vs the internal pattern generator will I get the validation capability that I loose with internal generator?

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post #380 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 08:08 AM
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Wow, I just spent some time reading this thread and the Calman for LG thread and my head is going to explode. So I own a i1 Pro meter that I used to calibrate my monitors for photo work. I am interested in toying with Calman home, but it looks like the best calibration needs a YCrCr pattern generator, and it looks like there are no cost effective solutions. Am I missing something of it’s there an economical YCrCr pattern generator that will work with Calman Home?

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post #381 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post
Wow, I just spent some time reading this thread and the Calman for LG thread and my head is going to explode. So I own a i1 Pro meter that I used to calibrate my monitors for photo work. I am interested in toying with Calman home, but it looks like the best calibration needs a YCrCr pattern generator, and it looks like there are no cost effective solutions. Am I missing something of it’s there an economical YCrCr pattern generator that will work with Calman Home?
You need to ask this question over on the Calman thread -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post22276312

As for the test pattern generator you need to look at this thread -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57067606

In order not to go off topic, with the Sony, you can use any test pattern generator that gives you RGB or YCbCr since you only calibrate SDR then HDR and DV is generated from the SDR settings. Very simple, CM Home works great. A TPG which gives you YCbCr output is preferred. As far a bit perfect, reference meters, etc..., you will need to read the attached threads. Bottom line, with CM Home you will get a nice result with an i1D3 or a C6 meter and most inexpensive test pattern generators. The minute you star thinking about moving from "good" calibration result to "perfection", prepare to invest a lot of time and probably money. As for the LG, totally different situation since the new LGs have more extensive calibration interfaces.
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post #382 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 08:48 AM
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Wow, I just spent some time reading this thread and the Calman for LG thread and my head is going to explode. So I own a i1 Pro meter that I used to calibrate my monitors for photo work. I am interested in toying with Calman home, but it looks like the best calibration needs a YCrCr pattern generator, and it looks like there are no cost effective solutions. Am I missing something of it’s there an economical YCrCr pattern generator that will work with Calman Home?
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As for the test pattern generator you need to look at this thread -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57067606
When the question of pattern generation comes up, I rarely see anyone discuss using CalMAN to generate the test patterns using the Laptop connected to the display over HDMI. While I recognize this may not be of the same quality that an expensive professional external pattern generator would provide, is not using the CalMAN-generated patterns good enough for the typical home DIY enthusiast? This approach has provided excellent results for my Z9F using Autocal. I understand that a professional calibrator may not want to use this approach, but why is it never mentioned, especially since it is a no-cost solution?
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post #383 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 09:08 AM
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You need to ask this question over on the Calman thread -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post22276312

As for the test pattern generator you need to look at this thread -> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57067606

In order not to go off topic, with the Sony, you can use any test pattern generator that gives you RGB or YCbCr since you only calibrate SDR then HDR and DV is generated from the SDR settings. Very simple, CM Home works great. A TPG which gives you YCbCr output is preferred. As far a bit perfect, reference meters, etc..., you will need to read the attached threads. Bottom line, with CM Home you will get a nice result with an i1D3 or a C6 meter and most inexpensive test pattern generators. The minute you star thinking about moving from "good" calibration result to "perfection", prepare to invest a lot of time and probably money. As for the LG, totally different situation since the new LGs have more extensive calibration interfaces.
Thanks. I just found that thread as well and reading that. Very interesting and overwhelming.

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post #384 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 11:13 AM
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When the question of pattern generation comes up, I rarely see anyone discuss using CalMAN to generate the test patterns using the Laptop connected to the display over HDMI. While I recognize this may not be of the same quality that an expensive professional external pattern generator would provide, is not using the CalMAN-generated patterns good enough for the typical home DIY enthusiast? This approach has provided excellent results for my Z9F using Autocal. I understand that a professional calibrator may not want to use this approach, but why is it never mentioned, especially since it is a no-cost solution?
Probably because it's swapping one can of worms for another! There are lots of variables in the signal path in a PC, from the hardware through the drivers and the OS. When using a PC for Dolby Vision calibration for example, it needs to be "bit accurate" otherwise the Dolby Vision signal cannot be carried. Experience has shown is that this is very difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to achieve, and this means that if it's not accurate then, it wasn't accurate for SDR either. Particularly now with the Raspberry Pi, everyone has access to a bit-perfect RGB source, that is normally recommended as the best compromise for a budget SDR generator.

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post #385 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 11:47 AM
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Probably because it's swapping one can of worms for another! There are lots of variables in the signal path in a PC, from the hardware through the drivers and the OS. When using a PC for Dolby Vision calibration for example, it needs to be "bit accurate" otherwise the Dolby Vision signal cannot be carried. Experience has shown is that this is very difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to achieve, and this means that if it's not accurate then, it wasn't accurate for SDR either. Particularly now with the Raspberry Pi, everyone has access to a bit-perfect RGB source, that is normally recommended as the best compromise for a budget SDR generator.
But for a Sony AutoCal, the PC is only used for the SDR calibration, not Dolby Vision. Does this change your response? I use PC-based patterns for calibrating my Z9F, and I don’t perceive anything “wrong” with the results, which I can gladly post here if required. I get the feeling that the argument for being “bit perfect” is splitting hairs, and I see nothing wrong with suggesting using PC-generated patterns as an alternative for home users looking for a reasonable cost solution. I certainly would not categorize it as a can of worms.
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post #386 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
But for a Sony AutoCal, the PC is only used for the SDR calibration, not Dolby Vision. Does this change your response?
Hmm not really no, because the Raspberry Pi is so cheap now it's just easier all round. (I mentioned Dolby Vision only because it exposed how bad some PC outputs were, and raised a lot of eyebrows of those who had previously trusted those PCs for SDR). There are so many variables flying around with this stuff, the more you can eliminate the better. The "cheap pattern generators" thread has graphs on just how bad some non-bit-perfect solutions can be.
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post #387 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Hmm not really no, because the Raspberry Pi is so cheap now it's just easier all round. (I mentioned Dolby Vision only because it exposed how bad some PC outputs were, and raised a lot of eyebrows of those who had previously trusted those PCs for SDR). There are so many variables flying around with this stuff, the more you can eliminate the better. The "cheap pattern generators" thread has graphs on just how bad some non-bit-perfect solutions can be.
Well, all I have to go on are my results in CalMAN, and how good the display looks to me. I don't perceive any issues.
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post #388 of 403 Old 11-16-2019, 05:50 PM
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Why you are using ccfl as display type for the zf9? Is not rg phosphor the better choice?
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post #389 of 403 Old 11-17-2019, 06:22 AM
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Is there a step by step guide on using a Raspberry PI as a pattern generator anywhere?
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post #390 of 403 Old 11-17-2019, 07:01 AM
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Is there a step by step guide on using a Raspberry PI as a pattern generator anywhere?
This. I have been researching and would love to actually understand how to use the thing. I've read multiple articles, including the Italian article, but still am not sure I understand connections, and how to get this thing going, but it does really sound like a great to get bit perfect patches cheaply.
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