Calman Home for Sony 2019 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 139 Old 06-07-2019, 08:29 PM
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Rolls-Royce, your testing methodology worked perfectly, and I am forced to eat my hat. Calibrated Gamma of 0 tracks 2.2 perfectly. It's the pre-calibration settings (which I was able to also test) that were off with blue tracking closer to 2.2 and red and green both tracking more to 2.4, which I think is what I was seeing. (The funny thing is, both the new Sony and my old LG seemed to handle gamma similarly uncalibrated!) At any rate, I guess I'll need to either get used to the new 2.2 or switch to 2.4 - still deciding.

Thirdkind, thanks for verifying the gamma test patterns just don't work. I've tried multiple times (uncalibrated and then recently calibrated) and couldn't use them at all. You're probably right as far as the upscaling, and I'm wondering since the days of brightness causing clipping or crush are gone now on modern TV's if that has something to do with it as well.

You make a good point re source material. I've tested on shows I recently watched, both digital (AppleTV) and DVR, since I'm familiar with how they looked prior to calibration.

Thanks all for all the help figuring this out.
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post #92 of 139 Old 06-08-2019, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
Rolls-Royce, your testing methodology worked perfectly, and I am forced to eat my hat. Calibrated Gamma of 0 tracks 2.2 perfectly. It's the pre-calibration settings (which I was able to also test) that were off with blue tracking closer to 2.2 and red and green both tracking more to 2.4, which I think is what I was seeing. (The funny thing is, both the new Sony and my old LG seemed to handle gamma similarly uncalibrated!) At any rate, I guess I'll need to either get used to the new 2.2 or switch to 2.4 - still deciding.

Thirdkind, thanks for verifying the gamma test patterns just don't work. I've tried multiple times (uncalibrated and then recently calibrated) and couldn't use them at all. You're probably right as far as the upscaling, and I'm wondering since the days of brightness causing clipping or crush are gone now on modern TV's if that has something to do with it as well.

You make a good point re source material. I've tested on shows I recently watched, both digital (AppleTV) and DVR, since I'm familiar with how they looked prior to calibration.

Thanks all for all the help figuring this out.
Watching familiar content is indeed the best way to evaluate your calibration, since it's why we calibrate to begin with. However, I personally draw the line at using TV channels or streaming services for that. I feel there's too much variability in those. My go-to content is the scene in Superman The Movie where he turns over the cat burglar to the policeman. That scene has a variety of bright and dark areas as well as a wide range of colors from subtle to highly saturated. At the low camera angle used on the street, if your low-end gamma is good, Superman's abs are subtly visible through the suit. I always use the Blu-Ray of the movie for this to avoid broadcast or streaming issues.
I'm glad you were able to check and set your mind at ease.
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post #93 of 139 Old 06-08-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Watching familiar content is indeed the best way to evaluate your calibration, since it's why we calibrate to begin with. However, I personally draw the line at using TV channels or streaming services for that. I feel there's too much variability in those. My go-to content is the scene in Superman The Movie where he turns over the cat burglar to the policeman. That scene has a variety of bright and dark areas as well as a wide range of colors from subtle to highly saturated. At the low camera angle used on the street, if your low-end gamma is good, Superman's abs are subtly visible through the suit. I always use the Blu-Ray of the movie for this to avoid broadcast or streaming issues.
I'm glad you were able to check and set your mind at ease.
It's a fair point. The reason I used those particular sources is, they're what I watch. DVR is particularly variable, so I did base a lot of it off high-quality streaming, which is actually pretty consistent for me. I don't use much physical media these days - usually that's reserved for stuff I can't find via streaming, though I am aware it's the best quality source. I find the higher quality streaming options (Netflix 4K + DV, Apple Store, etc.) quite good and consistent quality-wise otherwise, though, so as long as I'm familiar with content, it tends to work well for evaluation. (And great movie choice to check calibration to - I pulled it up (streaming) to see how it looked and I'm quite pleased by the result.)

I did end up settling with 2.4 gamma - I've always been a 2.2 guy, but now that RGB is better balanced, 2.2 just doesn't look good to me (especially things like faces); I'm finding 2.4 looks great, though, and is punchier with better contrast than the "old" 2.2 setting, while being able to see about as much detail-wise.
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post #94 of 139 Old 06-10-2019, 10:59 AM
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Hello im from Germany and i have a question to you guys.

I have a sony x940e and try to calibrate it wit hcfr. I calibrate it with gamma 0, localdimming off and 100% backlight(because i use it at max at daytime) after the calibration with hcfr i habe all errors below .
0.4. Than i turn local dimming medium and gamma to -2.

Is it ok? Or its better to calibrate with localdimming or something else? I dont find any tips about sony tvs to calibrate.
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post #95 of 139 Old 06-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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I'm still waiting on the video tutorial. I want to purchase the license soon, but it would be great to have a video walkthrough of the process to guide me.
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post #96 of 139 Old 06-10-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Hello im from Germany and i have a question to you guys.



I have a sony x940e and try to calibrate it wit hcfr. I calibrate it with gamma 0, localdimming off and 100% backlight(because i use it at max at daytime) after the calibration with hcfr i habe all errors below .

0.4. Than i turn local dimming medium and gamma to -2.



Is it ok? Or its better to calibrate with localdimming or something else? I dont find any tips about sony tvs to calibrate.


You should probably post this in the HCFR thread. This one is dedicated to CalMAN Home for Sony.
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post #97 of 139 Old 06-10-2019, 01:22 PM
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I know, but i think it must be the same with calman or not? and here are more sony owner thancin the other forum, i also plan to buy calman home for sony but i don t find it out how to buy it
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post #98 of 139 Old 06-10-2019, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
...i also plan to buy calman home for sony but i don t find it out how to buy it
You just get it online here: https://store.portrait.com/consumer-...-for-sony.html
CalMan for BRAVIA you download for free on Google Play store (on your TV).
Colorimeter you must have already. It needs to be compatible with CalMan, though.
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post #99 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 02:20 AM
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Ok i find out that it only work with my laptop(not smartohone) thank very much
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post #100 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 07:57 AM
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Now i habe calman home for sony, but how i can use extern pattern? I want to use my bluray discs burosch on my blurayplayer as generator.
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post #101 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Now i habe calman home for sony, but how i can use extern pattern? I want to use my bluray discs burosch on my blurayplayer as generator.
Most people on this thread are using the HDMI output of their laptop.

You do need to set it up in a certain way.

1. Uncheck the “Expand Built-in Patterns to PC Levels” in the Application Preferences sub-menu in the CalMAN Settings menu (Gear Wheel).

2. Setup your PC’s HDMI output setting to Full Range RGB 0-255. Configure the TV and an extended desktop display, not mirrored.

3. Force TV setting into Limited range 16-235. on Sony TVs this means setting “HDMI Video Range = Limited” .
4. Click on the Source Tab in CalMAN and click the “open pattern window” button.

5. Drag pattern window to the TV screen, then click once on the pattern window to make it full screen.

After calibration set the HDMI Video Range back to Auto.

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post #102 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Most people on this thread are using the HDMI output of their laptop.

You do need to set it up in a certain way.

1. Uncheck the “Expand Built-in Patterns to PC Levels” in the Application Preferences sub-menu in the CalMAN Settings menu (Gear Wheel).

2. Setup your PC’s HDMI output setting to Full Range RGB 0-255. Configure the TV and an extended desktop display, not mirrored.

3. Force TV setting into Limited range 16-235. on Sony TVs this means setting “HDMI Video Range = Limited” .
4. Click on the Source Tab in CalMAN and click the “open pattern window” button.

5. Drag pattern window to the TV screen, then click once on the pattern window to make it full screen.
You committed to writing up a guide for configuring the PC properly. Can we still expect a guide to be published?
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post #103 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 09:55 AM
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You committed to writing up a guide for configuring the PC properly. Can we still expect a guide to be published?
yes, but it is not complete yet.

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post #104 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Most people on this thread are using the HDMI output of their laptop.



You do need to set it up in a certain way.



1. Uncheck the “Expand Built-in Patterns to PC Levels” in the Application Preferences sub-menu in the CalMAN Settings menu (Gear Wheel).



2. Setup your PC’s HDMI output setting to Full Range RGB 0-255. Configure the TV and an extended desktop display, not mirrored.



3. Force TV setting into Limited range 16-235. on Sony TVs this means setting “HDMI Video Range = Limited” .

4. Click on the Source Tab in CalMAN and click the “open pattern window” button.



5. Drag pattern window to the TV screen, then click once on the pattern window to make it full screen.



After calibration set the HDMI Video Range back to Auto.


WiFi,

I have your Videoforge Pro with updated firmware. Can you tell me what the comparable settings should be when using the VF Pro as my pattern generator?? Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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post #105 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 10:56 AM
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WiFi,

I have your Videoforge Pro with updated firmware. Can you tell me what the comparable settings should be when using the VF Pro as my pattern generator?? Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Here is what I personally do with the VFP:

SDR calibration and validation:

1920x1080p 23.976 8bit RGB limited (or you can use 8bit YCbCr 4:4:4)

HDR calibration and validation:

3840x2160p 23.976 10bit RGB limited (or YCbCr 4:4:4 10bit)

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post #106 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Here is what I personally do with the VFP:

SDR calibration and validation:

1920x1080p 23.976 8bit RGB limited (or you can use 8bit YCbCr 4:4:4)

HDR calibration and validation:

3840x2160p 23.976 10bit RGB limited (or YCbCr 4:4:4 10bit)


Thanks much. I assume I can leave Sony HDMI setting to Auto for calibration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #107 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:04 PM
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Question:

Has anyone compared calibrating at Max brightness (which is supposedly best for HDR) vs. calibrating at whatever brightness you normally have SDR set to?

Since one maps to the other, it's been said whatever you calibrate to (SDR or HDR) tends to be the more accurate mode, but how much of a difference does this actually end up making real-world? Just curious what the best "balance" would be between the two.
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post #108 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:35 PM
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You might well be right. I'm just wondering what difference it makes, as all professional calibrations I've seen use Expert 2 as their base. I'm perfectly happy with the results Ive achieved just using Expert 1, but was curious why the work-flow still refers to this choice, despite it not being in there any more.
Just as a followup, I actually found this, the hard way!

So my initial theory about calibrating Custom Pro 1 maps to Expert 1 and Custom Pro 2 maps to Expert 2 was INCORRECT. I actually tried to calibrated for each (two different white points) and the second ended up wiping out the first because they both map to Expert 1 by default.

ANYWAY, you CAN set this, but it's a few menus deep. Sadly my stuff's not hooked up at the moment and I can only see the exact menus when plugged into the TV, but this should give you enough to be able to work out where it is. In CalMan, select the Display tab for your TV in the upper right. There should be a button allowing you to view the DDC, which essentially lets you change display controls manually. For me, it defaulted to the 20-point settings, but there are pages back and forward with arrows at the top of that little window. The temperature is on one of those pages, and you can change it to the one you wish to calibrate (ie. from Expert1 to Expert2). Tried it out and it worked fine. Hopefully this helps - if you can't find it for whatever reason (since this is from memory), let me know and I can hook up the laptop and find the exact name for everything.
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post #109 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
Question:

Has anyone compared calibrating at Max brightness (which is supposedly best for HDR) vs. calibrating at whatever brightness you normally have SDR set to?

Since one maps to the other, it's been said whatever you calibrate to (SDR or HDR) tends to be the more accurate mode, but how much of a difference does this actually end up making real-world? Just curious what the best "balance" would be between the two.
The calibration consists of three steps--setting the target brightness, calibrating grayscale, and then calibrating the color space. AFAIK, the target brightness has no effect on the other two steps. So, if I understand your question correctly, it should not make any difference what the brightness level is when you calibrate.
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post #110 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
Just as a followup, I actually found this, the hard way!

So my initial theory about calibrating Custom Pro 1 maps to Expert 1 and Custom Pro 2 maps to Expert 2 was INCORRECT. I actually tried to calibrated for each (two different white points) and the second ended up wiping out the first because they both map to Expert 1 by default.

ANYWAY, you CAN set this, but it's a few menus deep. Sadly my stuff's not hooked up at the moment and I can only see the exact menus when plugged into the TV, but this should give you enough to be able to work out where it is. In CalMan, select the Display tab for your TV in the upper right. There should be a button allowing you to view the DDC, which essentially lets you change display controls manually. For me, it defaulted to the 20-point settings, but there are pages back and forward with arrows at the top of that little window. The temperature is on one of those pages, and you can change it to the one you wish to calibrate (ie. from Expert1 to Expert2). Tried it out and it worked fine. Hopefully this helps - if you can't find it for whatever reason (since this is from memory), let me know and I can hook up the laptop and find the exact name for everything.
I am not sure about CalMAN Home, but in CalMAN Enthusiast (which I am still using), there is a screen on which you issue the command to reset the DCC. On this screen, you are offered the choice of selecting Custom for Pro1 or Pro2, as well as the choice of storing the calibration results in Expert1 or Expert2. You should have complete freedom to chose the settings memory location of your choice (see attached).
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post #111 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:41 PM
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The calibration consists of three steps--setting the target brightness, calibrating grayscale, and then calibrating the color space. AFAIK, the target brightness has no effect on the other two steps. So, if I understand your question correctly, it should not make any difference what the brightness level is when you calibrate.
In theory, this is true, but in practice, I'm not sure given Tyler's statement a few posts back "For instance, if I wanted HDR to be as accurate as possible, then I would do the SDR calibration at full brightness/backlight/OLED light. This would provide the most accurate HDR results but, then the 100 nits SDR mode would be less accurate."

I suppose it would depend a lot on how Sony's mapping algorithm works. Most TV's you have to calibrate SDR and HDR separately. It's really nice that Sony automagically adjusts that stuff for you, but I'd imagine it can have certain side effects too. I'm just wondering if anyone has compared doing it one way vs. the other. (So far, I've only calibrated to desired SDR brightness.)
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post #112 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am not sure about CalMAN Home, but in CalMAN Enthusiast (which I am still using), there is a screen on which you issue the command to reset the DCC. On this screen, you are offered the choice of selecting Custom for Pro1 or Pro2, as well as the choice of storing the calibration results in Expert1 or Expert2. You should have complete freedom to chose the settings memory location of your choice (see attached).
It's still there in Home, but from my recollection (again, I don't have it hooked up so can't see everything), it's buried a little further down than that. The DDC reset and mode select (Custom for Pro 1 or Custom for Pro 2) are there right in the workflow, but no color temperature, and I don't believe it's on the Display tab directly without going into the DDC controls. But it is there if you view the DDC and go through the various pages. Possibly a difference between the Enthusiast workflow and the Home Sony AutoCal workflow.
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post #113 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
In theory, this is true, but in practice, I'm not sure given Tyler's statement a few posts back "For instance, if I wanted HDR to be as accurate as possible, then I would do the SDR calibration at full brightness/backlight/OLED light. This would provide the most accurate HDR results but, then the 100 nits SDR mode would be less accurate."

I suppose it would depend a lot on how Sony's mapping algorithm works. Most TV's you have to calibrate SDR and HDR separately. It's really nice that Sony automagically adjusts that stuff for you, but I'd imagine it can have certain side effects too. I'm just wondering if anyone has compared doing it one way vs. the other. (So far, I've only calibrated to desired SDR brightness.)
What exactly are you proposing? Say you set Brightness to Max, ran the calibration, and stored the results in Expert1. Then you set Brightness to 150 nits (a typical SDR setting), ran a second calibration, and stored the results in Expert2. Are you saying that every time you switch from SDR content to HDR content, you would manually switch from one color temp to the other?

If that is what you are suggesting, then I would run the two calibrations and check the resulting settings in Expert1 and Expert2 to see if there is really a significant difference. I suspect not. Are you not on the verge of creeping elegance?
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post #114 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:50 PM
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It's still there in Home, but from my recollection (again, I don't have it hooked up so can't see everything), it's buried a little further down than that. The DDC reset and mode select (Custom for Pro 1 or Custom for Pro 2) are there right in the workflow, but no color temperature, and I don't believe it's on the Display tab directly without going into the DDC controls. But it is there if you view the DDC and go through the various pages. Possibly a difference between the Enthusiast workflow and the Home Sony AutoCal workflow.
Regardless, you should make a concerted effort to select the proper color temperature memory location when you run a calibration. I always alternate between Expert1 and Expert2 on subsequent calibrations to ensure I have the option to fall back to the previous calibration if something goes wrong.
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post #115 of 139 Old 06-11-2019, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What exactly are you proposing? Say you set Brightness to Max, ran the calibration, and stored the results in Expert1. Then you set Brightness to 150 nits (a typical SDR setting), ran a second calibration, and stored the results in Expert2. Are you saying that every time you switch from SDR content to HDR content, you would manually switch from one color temp to the other?

If that is what you are suggesting, then I would run the two calibrations and check the resulting settings in Expert1 and Expert2 to see if there is really a significant difference. I suspect not. Are you not on the verge of creeping elegance?
Yes, that's essentially what I'm asking if anyone's tried. But I tend to agree with you that I would prefer not to switch back and forth if the difference is minimal. If nobody else has tried it, I might give it a shot at some point out of sheer curiosity, but we'll see.

Re the Expert 1 and 2 mode, yeah - even if it's buried a bit in Home, it's good it's switchable - 100% agreed it's good to have a fallback position.
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post #116 of 139 Old 06-12-2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91DivineAngel View Post
Now i habe calman home for sony, but how i can use extern pattern? I want to use my bluray discs burosch on my blurayplayer as generator.
Most people on this thread are using the HDMI output of their laptop.

You do need to set it up in a certain way.

1. Uncheck the “Expand Built-in Patterns to PC Levels” in the Application Preferences sub-menu in the CalMAN Settings menu (Gear Wheel).

2. Setup your PC’s HDMI output setting to Full Range RGB 0-255. Configure the TV and an extended desktop display, not mirrored.

3. Force TV setting into Limited range 16-235. on Sony TVs this means setting “HDMI Video Range = Limited” .
4. Click on the Source Tab in CalMAN and click the “open pattern window” button.

5. Drag pattern window to the TV screen, then click once on the pattern window to make it full screen.

After calibration set the HDMI Video Range back to Auto.
Thank very much! I will try it

Last night i try it with amazaon fire tv stick and the mobile forge app . It works realy good and i was wondering that the x940e has autocal. It seems to work from 50% to 100% ire nearly perfect but 10%-40%are to bright and too cold. I use expert 1. In expert 2 are my older calalibration from hcfr. In hcfr i have a greyscal errror from 0.0 to max. 0.2 but iff i read this profile with calman then it says that the error are average about 1.4. Now i dont know wich is more acurate.

Also im suprise that my color coverage from rec709 is only 86%. Is this because the tv is 1year old and lost over the time color?
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post #117 of 139 Old 06-12-2019, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
It's still there in Home, but from my recollection (again, I don't have it hooked up so can't see everything), it's buried a little further down than that. The DDC reset and mode select (Custom for Pro 1 or Custom for Pro 2) are there right in the workflow, but no color temperature, and I don't believe it's on the Display tab directly without going into the DDC controls. But it is there if you view the DDC and go through the various pages. Possibly a difference between the Enthusiast workflow and the Home Sony AutoCal workflow.


I have already entered this as a request and it will be in the workflow when we release a beta of CalMAN 2019 R2.

For now you have to change the color temperature preset in the DDC menu, Because it is not in the workflow itself.
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post #118 of 139 Old 06-13-2019, 05:29 AM
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so I need to know which settings to turn off on the tv as well as the correct settings in general to calibrate. Just got my license today.
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post #119 of 139 Old 06-13-2019, 05:43 PM
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ok, I've tried it out tonight and I really do need some help with this. I'm getting readings above 1 on gamma. It taking it down, but not what I would like for it to and warm seems like a closer look than pro 1. And I would also like to know how to transfer the calibrated settings to OTA television.

Last edited by toby5; 06-13-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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post #120 of 139 Old 06-14-2019, 04:45 PM
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Most people on this thread are using the HDMI output of their laptop.

You do need to set it up in a certain way.

1. Uncheck the “Expand Built-in Patterns to PC Levels” in the Application Preferences sub-menu in the CalMAN Settings menu (Gear Wheel).

2. Setup your PC’s HDMI output setting to Full Range RGB 0-255. Configure the TV and an extended desktop display, not mirrored.

3. Force TV setting into Limited range 16-235. on Sony TVs this means setting “HDMI Video Range = Limited” .
4. Click on the Source Tab in CalMAN and click the “open pattern window” button.

5. Drag pattern window to the TV screen, then click once on the pattern window to make it full screen.

After calibration set the HDMI Video Range back to Auto.



Thanks for this info. I'll probably do another run in a few days. I think I forgot to set HDMI to limited.

I recommend people not use a laptop and go with an android device for simplicity. I ended up just using my phone with mobile forge for calman.

Tomb Raider demo with HDR is the most insane thing I've ever witnessed on a display. Although, I'm getting crushed highlights.
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