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Anderegg 05-02-2019 06:13 PM

Calman Home for Sony 2019
 
Could anyone give a brief quick start for setting this system up? I've got the Calman software loaded up and running, but when it comes to source, I am completely lost. I assumed Client 3 was the built in Calman pattern generator, but after (Client 3) install, it just makes servo sounds and no boxes or targets pop up. I am also very confused by the constant asking for IP addresses for everything. I selected my PC's IP running Calman as the IP for Client 3, and it shows green. Can this system be run from the PC connected by HDMI to the target TV, or must I do this all remotely from a laptop?

I have MadVR installed as well, but working on one screen the MadVR always on top makes it impossible to see the Calman screen and my head is beginning to bleed from banging against the wall.

Paul

WiFi-Spy 05-02-2019 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anderegg (Post 57990684)
Could anyone give a brief quick start for setting this system up? I've got the Calman software loaded up and running, but when it comes to source, I am completely lost. I assumed Client 3 was the built in Calman pattern generator, but after (Client 3) install, it just makes servo sounds and no boxes or targets pop up. I am also very confused by the constant asking for IP addresses for everything. I selected my PC's IP running Calman as the IP for Client 3, and it shows green. Can this system be run from the PC connected by HDMI to the target TV, or must I do this all remotely from a laptop?



I have MadVR installed as well, but working on one screen the MadVR always on top makes it impossible to see the Calman screen and my head is beginning to bleed from banging against the wall.



Paul



Please PM me your email address and I can follow up with you directly.

priitv8 05-03-2019 03:28 PM

There is also a document available from Sony describing the workflow:
http://sonyglobal.akamaized.net/is/c...AN-updated.pdf

WiFi-Spy 05-03-2019 04:31 PM

Calman Home for Sony 2019
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by priitv8 (Post 57995440)
There is also a document available from Sony describing the workflow:

http://sonyglobal.akamaized.net/is/c...AN-updated.pdf



This is for the previous Bravia workflow, not the new CalMAN Home one.

I am personally recording a tutorial video next week, so it will be on our YouTube page coming very soon.

priitv8 05-04-2019 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy (Post 57995728)
This is for the previous Bravia workflow, not the new CalMAN Home one.

I am personally recording a tutorial video next week, so it will be on our YouTube page coming very soon.

Thanks for updating me! Good to know. I am looking forward to your tutorial.
BTW is the CalMAN Home for Sony Walkthrough on their support page up to date?

Category 5 05-04-2019 10:09 AM

Just bought this and connected the i1 meter, and selected the Bravia on the autocal drop down (after inputting ip address the screen says connected).

As far as source, I have no idea what to do. I assumed the Bravia Calman app would handle that. There is absolutely NO information on how to proceed. Don't tell me I have to source a separate pattern generator, because the purchase page listed nothing about additional equipment necessary.

If I have to use a DVD like the old days of CalMan home, then what is the point of autocal? Wouldn't that be Cal-assist instead of auto?

Can anyone help?

WiFi-Spy 05-04-2019 11:05 AM

Calman Home for Sony 2019
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Category 5 (Post 57998580)
Just bought this and connected the i1 meter, and selected the Bravia on the autocal drop down (after inputting ip address the screen says connected).



As far as source, I have no idea what to do. I assumed the Bravia Calman app would handle that. There is absolutely NO information on how to proceed. Don't tell me I have to source a separate pattern generator, because the purchase page listed nothing about additional equipment necessary.



If I have to use a DVD like the old days of CalMan home, then what is the point of autocal? Wouldn't that be Cal-assist instead of auto?



Can anyone help?



There are many different options including MobileForge on fireTV stick, raspberry pi, MadVR, CalMAN built-in pattern window via HDMI output of your laptop.

Category 5 05-04-2019 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy (Post 57998814)
CalMAN built-in pattern window via HDMI output of your laptop.

This! Any instructions on how to properly set it up?

WiFi-Spy 05-04-2019 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Category 5 (Post 57998924)
This! Any instructions on how to properly set it up?



We will create a guide for this and post it to our resource center early next week.

I will also post the link here.

Category 5 05-04-2019 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy (Post 57999088)
We will create a guide for this and post it to our resource center early next week.

I will also post the link here.

Awesome. In the mean time, is mobileforge accurate enough that I should go pick up a new firestick? Also, if I use the pattern window on the laptop (i assume I set output as a second monitor and drag the window over) do I set the output to SDR or HDR?

My meter is an i1 display pro.

Anger.miki 05-04-2019 01:23 PM

Short answer: no. Read HERE for further informations.

priitv8 05-04-2019 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Category 5 (Post 57999252)
Awesome. In the mean time, is mobileforge accurate enough that I should go pick up a new firestick? Also, if I use the pattern window on the laptop (i assume I set output as a second monitor and drag the window over) do I set the output to SDR or HDR?

My meter is an i1 display pro.

I simply installed CalMan Client 3 on my calibration computer.
Because it is listed as supported pattern generator in CalMAN 2019 Features v5.10.0
Quote:

Originally Posted by store.portrait.com
At least one Client 3 license is included with all current levels of CalMAN (more with some CalMAN licenses).

Haven't come to testing it out yet, sadly. Maybe today.

Category 5 05-04-2019 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priitv8 (Post 58000782)
I simply installed CalMan Client 3 on my calibration computer.
Because it is listed as supported pattern generator in CalMAN 2019 Features v5.10.0


Haven't come to testing it out yet, sadly. Maybe today.

I did go back in and open the pattern window under the generator settings, and then drug that window over to the TV connected to the HDMI output. I made it 100% in size, and it worked. Not sure if the output needed to be set to a specific output mode, but I didi get a calibration that I am trying. Not sure I am happy with it though.

priitv8 05-05-2019 12:17 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Category 5 (Post 58000848)
Not sure I am happy with it though.

So, I did also my first test run on my Z9D. I do not see this AutoCal working properly or getting accurate results. It consistently adjusts the 10-point targets southwest of D65 white point. Tried all 3 LCD screen types, the LCD (LED Blue Green) seemed to produce closest matches.
So the post-calibration results are worse than pre.
Because I am on a Mac, I use Client 3 native macOS version to generate patterns and CalMan runs in a virtual machine.
Another thing, that puzzles my mind is the 10-point adjustment on this Bravia. These controls seem to have no or minimal at best effect on primary colors. Especially stubborn seems to be blue at 10% and 20% control points. B-Offset at these points has absolutely no effect on the blue pixel on my tv set.

Rolls-Royce 05-05-2019 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priitv8 (Post 58002814)
So, I did also my first test run on my Z9D. I do not see this AutoCal working properly or getting accurate results. It consistently adjusts the 10-point targets southwest of D65 white point. Tried all 3 LCD screen types, the LCD (LED Blue Green) seemed to produce closest matches.
So the post-calibration results are worse than pre.
Because I am on a Mac, I use Client 3 native macOS version to generate patterns and CalMan runs in a virtual machine.
Another thing, that puzzles my mind is the 10-point adjustment on this Bravia. These controls seem to have no or minimal at best effect on primary colors. Especially stubborn seems to be blue at 10% and 20% control points. B-Offset at these points has absolutely no effect on the blue pixel on my tv set.

That 10-point adjustment is for grayscale only. It has nothing whatsoever to do with color saturation or luminance, although an incorrect gray scale can impact the hue of secondaries.

Try using Raw XYZ as the display type on the meter. That reports only what the sensors see without filtering it through an EDR file. If you've chosen an incorrect EDR (display type), results will be off.

WiFi-Spy 05-05-2019 04:42 PM

We found a bug in the Sony Home workflow, it should be set to 2.2 gamma, but it is set to BT.1886. We will be doing another release early this week with it set properly.

Category 5 05-05-2019 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy (Post 58003862)
We found a bug in the Sony Home workflow, it should be set to 2.2 gamma, but it is set to BT.1886. We will be doing another release early this week with it set properly.

Can we compensate for it on our own or do we have to wait for the new release.

I guess that's why the shadows seemed a little too pumped up

priitv8 05-05-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce (Post 58003420)
That 10-point adjustment is for grayscale only. It has nothing whatsoever to do with color saturation or luminance, although an incorrect gray scale can impact the hue of secondaries.

I did express myself not too well, I guess. What I mean is, that when trying to minimize dE2000 using the 10-point R/G/B-Offset controls, I hardly can move the blue pixel luminance using B-Offset slider. Especially in slots 1 and 2 it seems to have minimal to no effect.
But my main problem with the AutoCal is, that CalMan drives these 10 points to southwest from the D65 target and does it pretty consistently. Why is that?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce (Post 58003420)
Try using Raw XYZ as the display type on the meter. That reports only what the sensors see without filtering it through an EDR file. If you've chosen an incorrect EDR (display type), results will be off.

Thank you for the hint, will give it another try.
Besides setting Gamma to 2,2 instead of BT.1886.

PS Seems so, that CalMan for BRAVIA DDC my 2016 Z9 can only support 10-point gray-scale adjustment and does not support the 1D LUT - on the Colorspace screen I only see "This feature is not supported".

Rolls-Royce 05-06-2019 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priitv8 (Post 58004800)
But my main problem with the AutoCal is, that CalMan drives these 10 points to southwest from the D65 target and does it pretty consistently. Why is that?
Thank you for the hint, will give it another try.
Besides setting Gamma to 2,2 instead of BT.1886.

PS Seems so, that CalMan for BRAVIA DDC my 2016 Z9 can only support 10-point gray-scale adjustment and does not support the 1D LUT - on the Colorspace screen I only see "This feature is not supported".

The program is responding to what the meter is telling it and adjusts based on those readings. It could be that the meter is reporting so much blue that the program can't correct for it, hence the dots all land to the "southwest" (towards blue). After the run, you should be able to click on the "DDC" button on the Display tab and see what the final numbers are. Hopefully, using Raw XYZ as the meter display type will help. If you start seeing wild swings in the readings - usually down towards the dark end - try changing the sync type in the meter settings. If it's in Auto, try On or Off, and vice-versa.

WiFi-Spy 05-06-2019 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by priitv8 (Post 58004800)
I did express myself not too well, I guess. What I mean is, that when trying to minimize dE2000 using the 10-point R/G/B-Offset controls, I hardly can move the blue pixel luminance using B-Offset slider. Especially in slots 1 and 2 it seems to have minimal to no effect.

But my main problem with the AutoCal is, that CalMan drives these 10 points to southwest from the D65 target and does it pretty consistently. Why is that?

Thank you for the hint, will give it another try.

Besides setting Gamma to 2,2 instead of BT.1886.



PS Seems so, that CalMan for BRAVIA DDC my 2016 Z9 can only support 10-point gray-scale adjustment and does not support the 1D LUT - on the Colorspace screen I only see "This feature is not supported".



Are you trying to autocal the Custom picture mode?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Category 5 05-06-2019 08:06 PM

Can we just select Gamma 2.2 manual and then do an Autocal or do we need to wait for the update for some reason?

My grayscale was almost perfectly flat after calibration with i1 pro, just a little flat thanks to incorrect curve.

Also, to use laptop hdmi and calibration window, does it matter if the output is set to rgb or should we set it manually?

priitv8 05-07-2019 12:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce (Post 58006262)
The program is responding to what the meter is telling it and adjusts based on those readings. It could be that the meter is reporting so much blue that the program can't correct for it, hence the dots all land to the "southwest" (towards blue). After the run, you should be able to click on the "DDC" button on the Display tab and see what the final numbers are. Hopefully, using Raw XYZ as the meter display type will help. If you start seeing wild swings in the readings - usually down towards the dark end - try changing the sync type in the meter settings. If it's in Auto, try On or Off, and vice-versa.

Thanks again, for these suggestions, I will give it another try.
Quote:

Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy (Post 58006638)
Are you trying to autocal the Custom picture mode?

Yes. And frankly, that is the only one I am able to, using the CalMan for BRAVIA app on my MY2016 set.

RetiredandLovingIt 05-09-2019 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy (Post 58003862)
We found a bug in the Sony Home workflow, it should be set to 2.2 gamma, but it is set to BT.1886. We will be doing another release early this week with it set properly.


Any idea when this will be available? Thank you.

WiFi-Spy 05-09-2019 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredandLovingIt (Post 58021840)
Any idea when this will be available? Thank you.



A new build was posted to our website last night. It has the fix.

Category 5 05-09-2019 11:57 AM

What type of backlight does the 900f have? LED, LED RGB, or LED blue green?

Also, nobody mentioned if it’s okay to use RGB mode from the laptop hdmi out for the patterns, vs ycbr 4:4:4 or 4:4:2 manually set in the driver.

WiFi-Spy 05-09-2019 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Category 5 (Post 58023560)
What type of backlight does the 900f have? LED, LED RGB, or LED blue green?

Also, nobody mentioned if it’s okay to use RGB mode from the laptop hdmi out for the patterns, vs ycbr 4:4:4 or 4:4:2 manually set in the driver.



I would do full range RGB from laptop, uncheck “expand built in patterns to pc levels” in the CalMAN seatings (gear wheel). The fore TV to limited range in TV settings instead of using Auto.

Category 5 05-09-2019 10:22 PM

Thanks WiFi Spy. I did as suggested. After getting a little higher error in the final cal than I liked, I went back and tried to get the pre cal closer to flat by adjusting the RGB gain and RGB offset controls first, then the calibration itself got about .6 average delta, and didn't bury the blue and green like it was before.

Dolby Vision and HDR look darker than I'd like, but SOny bases the HDR calibration on the SDR grayscale, and to be honest they were dark to start with.

SDR looks great, and my color balance looks rich and warm now. Even Expert 1 is way too blue/green on my set.

Is HDR and DV designed to be viewed at 2.2 also?

priitv8 05-10-2019 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Category 5 (Post 58025844)
Is HDR and DV designed to be viewed at 2.2 also?

I think they can not, fundamentally. HDR uses ST.2084 PQ instead of 2.2 gamma as EOTF.
Ideally, that should have no relation to white balance of the image, what we are calibrating here.

Anderegg 05-12-2019 02:03 AM

1: I wish Calman had some workflow changes accounting for adjusting TV GAMMA, as it relates to gamma and luminance curves. In order to avoid hitting the adjustment limitations of my Sony X900F while calibrating with HCFR, I may need to mess with the gamma so that I am not looking at say blue at 140% after the first 2 point step. This is more important obviously in 2.4 BT.1886 and certain HDR curves when trying to keep 2 and 10 point adjustment s from hitting their limits...but maybe this doesn't mater because 2.4 BT.1886 and HDR are not part of Calman Home for Sony?

2: Calman contrast screen...serves no apparent function, white will always lay flat at 100%...turn contrast down, up, sideways, no difference, the contrast test stays the same. I shoot video for a living, and my raw video files do contain 108% for my Sony cameras and 109% for Panasonics, but short of creating some weird hybrid calibration with mismatched HDMI levels hitting the TV at full, what purpose does the contrast test serve?

3: Why include a manual Sony HDR workflow if Sony TV's are not meant to be HDR calibrated? (scratching head)

I might play with Calman again just for curiosity, since an update was released, but I am not sure throwing a 0.5dE handicap Calman Autocal run at my 0.2dE TV would help in any way. :-(

Paul

jrref 05-12-2019 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anderegg (Post 58034936)

2: Calman contrast screen...serves no apparent function, white will always lay flat at 100%...turn contrast down, up, sideways, no difference, the contrast test stays the same. I shoot video for a living, and my raw video files do contain 108% for my Sony cameras and 109% for Panasonics, but short of creating some weird hybrid calibration with mismatched HDMI levels hitting the TV at full, what purpose does the contrast test serve?

3: Why include a manual Sony HDR workflow if Sony TV's are not meant to be HDR calibrated? (scratching head)

For the Sony, when you calibrate CM sets Contrast to 100% and then resets it back to 90 which is where you should leave it. The contrast layout in CM is to check if the set is clipping. If it is, (it shouldn't be), you can lower the contrast to correct it.

The HDR layout in the workflow is there to validate HDR. You always want to validate to make sure your SDR calibration and automatic HDR offsets are correct. They would have one for Dolby Vision but there are no generators able to trigger it.


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