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post #1 of 11 Old 05-07-2019, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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HCFR My 1st attempt

Hi All,
First thanks you all for all the information posted here.
I am about to try to calibrate my LG OLED 65E6p to REC709.
I work in post production so I have some knowledge of calibration and color.
I though it would be used full to try to get a handle on HCFR as it could be used in my editing room to calibrate all my screens. Here is my plan. Would you have a look and see if I have gathered all the steps together in one place? If I am missing anything in regards to HCFR please chime in.
Thanks in advance,
Ian

Calibration questions using HCFR, MacBook running parallels 10, win xp and
I1 display pro
I want to calibrate my LG 65E6P. I have looked through the posts here at AVS as well as the old Curtpalmer guide from 2008.

I thought I would write up the steps I am going to take. And ask a few questions.

1. warm up display and probe.

2. Set up internal pattern generator. With windows in extended display mode, HCFR generator settings Image area 10 % , GDI overlay, pattern intensity 75%, GDI options 16–235.

3. set contrast (white)- put up 100% white patch and adjust contrast to 30-40 FL

4. set black level brightness (black)-put up zero Black patch and lower brightness until there is no change, the black does not lift

5. Set gamma Target to 2.2 - 2.35— Where do I set this in HCFR?

I know I have to choose a gamma setting on the monitor.

6. Color-Measure and record the Y value of 100% white. Then with 100% red adjust the color so Y is 21% of the white.

7. Tint Measure cyan and adjust to the Hue target of CIE. Then check the other secondaries.


8. two point white balance-
A. with 80% white patch adjust RGB contrast until RGB balance is at 100. Or the target x0.3127 y0.329.

B. with 20% white patch adjust RGB contrast until RGB balance is at 100. Or the target x0.3127 y0.329.

9. Then measure 20 point. Make adjustments if necessary allowing 40-60 to be as close to neutral gray as possible. Then it just low-end. And if necessary sacrifice the high end.

10. Adjust Color management system – put up primary and secondary patches one by one and adjust CMS to get them as close as you can to the target gamut on the CIE graph. Use 75% intensity not 100%.



Questions
How do i put up a 1 patch and keep it there.

I know in HCFR to set the parameters to xyY adjustment? And what is the reference button for?

If have seen references to ccs files one for 2017 OLED and I think one for the X-rite. Since they don't appear to be referenced in many posts I figure it's something I don't need to know about. Is that true?

Someone mentioned setting color space to be REC 709 75%/75%.
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-09-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Slater View Post
I am about to try to calibrate my LG OLED 65E6p to REC709.
You may want to take a look at the LG OLED calibration threads as some of the general "rules" may not work with those displays.

Quote:
2. Set up internal pattern generator. With windows in extended display mode, HCFR generator settings Image area 10 % , GDI overlay, pattern intensity 75%, GDI options 16–235.
You also need to make sure the graphics "card" is set for 0-100%. The GDI pattern intensity should normally be set to 100%.

Quote:
3. set contrast (white)- put up 100% white patch and adjust contrast to 30-40 FL
For most modern displays, the luminance should not be set using the Contrast Control. (OLED may be an exception as doing so will not degrade the contrast ratio).

Quote:
5. Set gamma Target to 2.2 - 2.35— Where do I set this in HCFR?
Click on the "Refs" icon (near the right edge).

Quote:
6. Color-Measure and record the Y value of 100% white. Then with 100% red adjust the color so Y is 21% of the white.
No need. HCFR shows you the target Y for all the colours.
If your TV has CMS, you shouldn't touch the Colour and Tint controls.

Quote:
8. two point white balance-
A. with 80% white patch adjust RGB contrast until RGB balance is at 100. Or the target x0.3127 y0.329.
If you're going to adjust 20-pt afterwards, it's better to use 100% white patch instead of 80%

Quote:
B. with 20% white patch adjust RGB contrast until RGB balance is at 100. Or the target x0.3127 y0.329.
The low end is adjusted using the RGB Offset controls.

Quote:
How do i put up a 1 patch and keep it there.
If you click on the green triangle icon the patch will be displayed and measured continually. Click on the column heading to select a specific colour.


Quote:
I know in HCFR to set the parameters to xyY adjustment? And what is the reference button for?
The reference button sets the current measurements as reference (e.g., you can use that for the Before values). If you start another set of measurements you can see how the After values compare with the Reference Measure (Before values) as well as Reference values (e.g., Rec. 709).

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-09-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-10-2019, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks so much Dominic for taking the time to comment. It seems tricky at first, but so useful.
Thanks again.
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-12-2019, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Slater View Post
Thanks so much Dominic for taking the time to comment. It seems tricky at first, but so useful.
Thanks again.
Make sure you are selecting 0-255 regardless of your HDMI video levels output, as 16-235 will give very inaccurate readings...I am not sure what special setup it is useful for, but it's not for newbies or casual calibrations.

Regarding choosing gamma, when you check off power law you get a box that you type in the gamma, it will say 2.2 default. For BT.1886, it is standard 2.2 (box above 100 will say 0), if you want 2.4 BT.1886, type 2.4 into the box above the box that says 100...I assume you type 2.3 there for 2.3 average?

Will running through Parallels allow the proper disable videoLUT option to work? I use Parallels so I know it has a special relationship with MacOS that I don't fully appreciate. Before you go to far down the rabbit hole, I suggest you download some simple greyscale patch files that can be played back on the TV itself, just to double check that your Parallels generated targets are properly coming across the HDMI.

Paul

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-12-2019, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
Make sure you are selecting 0-255 regardless of your HDMI video levels output, as 16-235 will give very inaccurate readings...I am not sure what special setup it is useful for, but it's not for newbies or casual calibrations.
Assuming the HDMI is set for video levels (as opposed to PC levels), the default GDI setting of 16-235 will give you more accurate results and is the setting recommended by zoyd himself. What’s important is to ensure the graphics card itself is set for 0-255, otherwise there will be “double scaling” leading to incorrect results.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-12-2019 at 04:53 AM.
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-12-2019, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Assuming the HDMI is set for video levels (as opposed to PC levels), the default GDI setting of 16-235 will give you more accurate results and is the setting recommended by zoyd himself. What’s important is to ensure the graphics card itself is set for 0-255, otherwise there will be “double scaling” leading to incorrect results.
This is where the problem lies Dom...if you set your HCFR to 16-235, and your previous greyscale was 2.2 gamma with 0-255, your 16-235 will read 2.0 average gamma. You can change the HDMI output to video (16-235), you can change it to full (0-255), but that lower gamma shift will still be there on the targets.

My stock calibrations on my Sony come out to 2.2, 2.18 before adjusting anything, with HCFR set to 0-255. So either I am doing it wrong, or the advise for people to simply set HDMI to full and HCFR to 16-235 is an incomplete explanation leading to issues for newbies. What am I missing here?

Paul

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-12-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
This is where the problem lies Dom...if you set your HCFR to 16-235, and your previous greyscale was 2.2 gamma with 0-255, your 16-235 will read 2.0 average gamma. You can change the HDMI output to video (16-235), you can change it to full (0-255), but that lower gamma shift will still be there on the targets.

My stock calibrations on my Sony come out to 2.2, 2.18 before adjusting anything, with HCFR set to 0-255. So either I am doing it wrong, or the advise for people to simply set HDMI to full and HCFR to 16-235 is an incomplete explanation leading to issues for newbies. What am I missing here?

Paul
I used to use the combination 0-255 (HCFR) + 16-235 (graphics card), as that is the easiest combination to set up. However, it is less accurate. More recently I’ve been using the recommended combination 16-235 (HCFR) + 0-255 (graphics card).

You may want to (re-)read the older posts:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post55934250

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-12-2019 at 07:42 AM.
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-12-2019, 10:33 AM
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Still not seeing anything jump out at me after reading that.

Maybe if I ask this question...if you set 16-235 in HCFR, and HDMI output to 0-255, for these settings to work properly, would you have to FORCE the TV into a mismatched 16-235 video levels mode? If my question is not answered sufficiently to my liking, I will dither you. :-P

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I used to use the combination 0-255 (HCFR) + 16-235 (graphics card), as that is the easiest combination to set up. However, it is less accurate. More recently I’ve been using the recommended combination 16-235 (HCFR) + 0-255 (graphics card).

You may want to (re-)read the older posts:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post55934250

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-12-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
Still not seeing anything jump out at me after reading that.

Maybe if I ask this question...if you set 16-235 in HCFR, and HDMI output to 0-255, for these settings to work properly, would you have to FORCE the TV into a mismatched 16-235 video levels mode? If my question is not answered sufficiently to my liking, I will dither you. :-P

Paul
If your TV is set to Limited and not Auto, it should not switch range by itself in spite of the apparent mismatch. OTOH, I’ve seen the graphic card remaining in Limited mode when connected to the TV, even though I attempted to set it to Full. That was when I had to use the madVR Utility to force it to Full.
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This is my precise question, a mismatch of levels between the HDMI output of the source and the TV must be established? That is something that needs to be specified any time it is mentioned to use 16-235 in HCFR. That is why I stated it's not a setting newbies should be using, because if they check off that box without the additional details about maintaining mismatched levels, they will be calibrating to the wrong target.

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If your TV is set to Limited and not Auto, it should not switch range by itself in spite of the apparent mismatch. OTOH, I’ve seen the graphic card remaining in Limited mode when connected to the TV, even though I attempted to set it to Full. That was when I had to use the madVR Utility to force it to Full.

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-17-2019, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
This is my precise question, a mismatch of levels between the HDMI output of the source and the TV must be established? That is something that needs to be specified any time it is mentioned to use 16-235 in HCFR. That is why I stated it's not a setting newbies should be using, because if they check off that box without the additional details about maintaining mismatched levels, they will be calibrating to the wrong target.

Paul
i hear you.
a few years ago it was important to get a driver/software package to
control vid card output.
16-235
also, ycbcr was the preferred color space since most content is delivered in ycbcr.

i notice lately with hdr that rgb and 0-255 is the preferred color space?

i can understand rgb give more bitdepth for hdr range but as far as i know ycbcr is still
the standard being sent to the tv.
i also ran across that there is a 0-255 ycbcr?

Loving D65
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