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post #1 of 24 Old 05-11-2019, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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x-Rite i1 display pro + HCFR + mobile ?

Hello all,


I have purchased a i1 display pro device to calibrate my desktop screen and my projector but also to measure the screen quality for smartphones. I'm not interested in mobile screen calibration, most of the time it's not even possible to calibrate a mobile screen. I just want to measure things like color accuracy, brightness, ...


I know x-rite has an Android app but it's not supported by all phones and it's focused on calibration again. I would be much more interested in using HCFR to measure screen quality but how can I run HCFR or something equivalent on a mobile ? Or do you see any other possibility to achieve the same goal?

Thanks
Laurent

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post #2 of 24 Old 05-11-2019, 02:23 PM
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I don't see any problem with saving test patterns as photos and using HCFR as normal.

In the AVS709 test patterns set I believe some of the patterns are given as photos.

I also have an i1Pro Specro and i1d3.

The thing about phones is if there was anything wrong with the screen qualities I don't think anyone would want to know about it. Generally people are thrilled with the screen qualities and pictures they can take also.


Which reminds me ... you may be better off asking about something like this in photography circles. Photographers and other people who make a living with image accuracy tend to be very passionate about it and because phones have worked the way into so many systems I bet they have done lots of investigating this type of thing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I don't see any problem with saving test patterns as photos and using HCFR as normal.

In the AVS709 test patterns set I believe some of the patterns are given as photos.

I also have an i1Pro Specro and i1d3.

The thing about phones is if there was anything wrong with the screen qualities I don't think anyone would want to know about it. Generally people are thrilled with the screen qualities and pictures they can take also.


Which reminds me ... you may be better off asking about something like this in photography circles. Photographers and other people who make a living with image accuracy tend to be very passionate about it and because phones have worked the way into so many systems I bet they have done lots of investigating this type of thing.
that's a good idea actually. is there a way to generate patterns directly from HCFR? I suppose at some point HCFR needs to understand which pattern is being displayed on the mobile?


You would be surprised about screen quality on mobile. I have a tech blog where I sometimes test mobile phones and sometimes without any measuring device, there are visible differences between screens and you can't correct them with settings. I remember for example the Honor 8x where blues were too strong and it really affected image quality.


Thanks!

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post #4 of 24 Old 05-11-2019, 02:52 PM
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I don't think HCFR needs to know what the mobile is doing at all.

Years ago it was common to use a DVD player for example with a display and HCFR on a laptop... The laptop and HCFR took your word for it if it asked you to display an 80 IRE pattern for example. I think the program refers to this as manual.

Now you can generate patterns with HCFR but that's still just one of the ways it can be used.
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-12-2019, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I don't think HCFR needs to know what the mobile is doing at all.

Years ago it was common to use a DVD player for example with a display and HCFR on a laptop... The laptop and HCFR took your word for it if it asked you to display an 80 IRE pattern for example. I think the program refers to this as manual.

Now you can generate patterns with HCFR but that's still just one of the ways it can be used.
Hi Brian,


I tried the following:
- I created a web page with RGB + White patterns, I took the RGB values from HCFR
- I select one in HCFR, I select white on my smartphone
- I measure
I repeat the process for each color + white.


It looks like it's working but I'm not sure. I see that measure red and green exactly correspond to the color define in HCFR, only blue is deviating.

I also don't know if the CIE graphs uses all separated measures to build up the right triangle.

Thanks

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post #6 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 01:01 AM
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As a check on the workflow, you could use LightSpace ZRO and LightSpace Connect?
Both free.
That would give you an additional comparison.

Steve

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post #7 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
As a check on the workflow, you could use LightSpace ZRO and LightSpace Connect?
Both free.
That would give you an additional comparison.

Steve
When was DPS renamed ZRO? It was not even mentioned in the DPS thread itself!
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 07:02 AM
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The name change was a few weeks or so back... maybe a month?
Just a marketing change.
(It's related to the upcoming launch of ColourSpace.)

Steve

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post #9 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
As a check on the workflow, you could use LightSpace ZRO and LightSpace Connect?
Both free.
That would give you an additional comparison.

Steve
Thanks Steve, does it have a mobile version so that it would allow me to check the mobile screen quality? I can build a page with the primary colors and check one by one but it's not very practical.

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post #10 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 09:20 AM
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Indeed - see: https://www.lightillusion.com/lightspace_connect.html
It is an Android/iOS application.

Steve

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post #11 of 24 Old 05-13-2019, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Steve,


Thanks, I downloaded it but it doesn't recognize my probe (xrite i1 pro), is there anything i need to do to make it work?

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post #12 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 01:41 AM
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If you have the free ZRO license installed you just need to select the probe from the 'Discoverable Probe' list.
If you have a Retail version of the i1D3, please see the provided information within the 'download' email.

Steve

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post #13 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
If you have the free ZRO license installed you just need to select the probe from the 'Discoverable Probe' list.
If you have a Retail version of the i1D3, please see the provided information within the 'download' email.

Steve
Hi Steve,

That's what I did, I can see my probe in the list but they are all greyed out.

thanks

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post #14 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 01:47 AM
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That says the ZRO license has not be installed, and you are running in 'demo' mode.
If you select Help/License what do you see?

Steve

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post #15 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurentW View Post
Hello all,


I have purchased a i1 display pro device to calibrate my desktop screen and my projector but also to measure the screen quality for smartphones. I'm not interested in mobile screen calibration, most of the time it's not even possible to calibrate a mobile screen. I just want to measure things like color accuracy, brightness, ...


I know x-rite has an Android app but it's not supported by all phones and it's focused on calibration again. I would be much more interested in using HCFR to measure screen quality but how can I run HCFR or something equivalent on a mobile ? Or do you see any other possibility to achieve the same goal?

Thanks
Laurent

1- get DisplayCAL & ArgyllCMS

2- configure remote(web) screen (close to Calman or Light Illusion remote/web measurements counterpart)


3- select proper spectral correction (or matrix) for your mobile phone. For example WLED=sRGB IPS mobile, and for AMOLED there are some community corrections or the ones bundles with DisplayCAL.

4- configure mobile to the display mode you want to read (some AMOLEDs have sRGB mode for example), set desired brightess, turn off or set to maximum "screen standby/screen darkening" (otherwise it will ruin the readings)



5-Run a profile verification on the remote screen, but set a simulation profile (and maybe use simulation profile as display profile, I do not remember). For example setting sRGB as simulation and display profile will measure several patches and compare these readings against sRGB reference values


When you click in Measure/Generate report it will ask you to use your mobile connected to local WLAN and go to some URL like MI_LOCAL_COMPUTER_IP:LOCAL_PORT. Go there, place colorimeter, make sure display does not go to sleep and click in DisplayCAL button for start reading.
At the end of these process you'll get typical DisplayCAL HTML report.




More or less all these tools out there are going to do the same with remote screen measurement. Some people like one-click solutions and do not worry about screen go to standby, others find DisplayCAL versatility with community CCSS a mandatory requiment.
Choose the one you like most.


IDNK if HCFR has similar setup.

Last edited by Vicent; 05-14-2019 at 04:15 AM.
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post #16 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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That says the ZRO license has not be installed, and you are running in 'demo' mode.
If you select Help/License what do you see?

Steve
Hi Steve,

that was probably the issue because when I restarted LightCMS, it asked me to enter the serial number once again.

I can now select my probe in the list but I'm stuck somewhere else now.

I have used the network manager to link my smartphone with my computer, it worked.

Then when I go to Calibration, "measure" is now greyed out.

If I go to Display Characterization, it asks me if I want to connect the Virtual Probe
> if I click yet, the measure button is enable
> if I click cancel the measure button is greyed out

When measure is enable (if I choose yes to virtual probe), I have to enter a name and then start the process. I see the colors switching on my mobile but after 25 samples, I get the message that I need to pay for more. Ok but it looks like I don't have the choice to measure anything else. I would already be happy to measure RGB + primary or gray scales but I don't see where I can select this.

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post #17 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 05:39 AM
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With the ZRO license only Manual Measurement and Quick Profiling can be performed - via the 'Calibration Interface' menu.
The 'Characterisation' menu will only show the virtual probe.

Oh - with the free 'Connect' license the Grey Only Quick Profile is the one to use, as that is 24 patches.
(Or manual patches to the 25 limit.)

Steve

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post #18 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
With the ZRO license only Manual Measurement and Quick Profiling can be performed - via the 'Calibration Interface' menu.
The 'Characterisation' menu will only show the virtual probe.

Oh - with the free 'Connect' license the Grey Only Quick Profile is the one to use, as that is 24 patches.
(Or manual patches to the 25 limit.)

Steve
Hi Steve,

Thanks for the support.

If I do the following:
-> start LightSpace CMS
-> go to Calibration interface
-> click on Network manager
-> make sure my phone is connect (IP is assigned, screen on mobile is changed)
-> go back to calibration interface
-> measure, profile are greyed out

If I do this without the mobile part, I get the same result as if the probe is not detected.

I have selected
i1 pro 1 /2 -> no effect
i1 display pro OEM -> l1D3 error: the device is password-locked (-505)
i1 display 1 / 2 / LT -> no effect

I have a i1 display pro

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post #19 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 06:14 AM
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Ah - please see my previous post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
If you have a Retail version of the i1D3, please see the provided information within the 'download' email.
That is your issue.

Steve

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post #20 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah - please see my previous post!



That is your issue.

Steve
Hi Steve,


I got the mail from Ted and it solved the problem but now I have another one. When I select one of the profiles available (ex: primary color), it always execute the grey only profile.



I was also wondering if you had any recommendations regarding screen brightness because it seems to drastically changes the measure so should I test screen with max brightness or is there a good practice that I should follow?




Thanks

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post #21 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicent View Post
1- get DisplayCAL & ArgyllCMS

2- configure remote(web) screen (close to Calman or Light Illusion remote/web measurements counterpart)


3- select proper spectral correction (or matrix) for your mobile phone. For example WLED=sRGB IPS mobile, and for AMOLED there are some community corrections or the ones bundles with DisplayCAL.

4- configure mobile to the display mode you want to read (some AMOLEDs have sRGB mode for example), set desired brightess, turn off or set to maximum "screen standby/screen darkening" (otherwise it will ruin the readings)



5-Run a profile verification on the remote screen, but set a simulation profile (and maybe use simulation profile as display profile, I do not remember). For example setting sRGB as simulation and display profile will measure several patches and compare these readings against sRGB reference values


When you click in Measure/Generate report it will ask you to use your mobile connected to local WLAN and go to some URL like MI_LOCAL_COMPUTER_IP:LOCAL_PORT. Go there, place colorimeter, make sure display does not go to sleep and click in DisplayCAL button for start reading.
At the end of these process you'll get typical DisplayCAL HTML report.




More or less all these tools out there are going to do the same with remote screen measurement. Some people like one-click solutions and do not worry about screen go to standby, others find DisplayCAL versatility with community CCSS a mandatory requiment.
Choose the one you like most.


IDNK if HCFR has similar setup.
Hello Vicent,


Sorry I missed your thread while I was busy trying to fix issues with LightSpace. I'll definitely have a look at your suggestion but now I need to go to bed and calibrate my sleep


Thanks

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post #22 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 02:29 PM
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Most of the QPs have a Grey Scale included.
Are you sure you are not just seeing that?
(There is really no way selecting the different QPs can do anything other than profile the selected QP...)

As for the your second question, sorry to say I don't understand.
Can you explain further?

Steve

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post #23 of 24 Old 05-14-2019, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Most of the QPs have a Grey Scale included.
Are you sure you are not just seeing that?
(There is really no way selecting the different QPs can do anything other than profile the selected QP...)

As for the your second question, sorry to say I don't understand.
Can you explain further?

Steve
Hi Steve,

I can select any QP (none are greyed out) in the list but when I click on start, it always starts the grey scale and I end up with the message on my mobile promoting the paid version before the test actually finishes. I get the measures on most of the colors but I don't get the last ones.

What I mean with brightness is that brightness on the phone influences the measured color. If I measure one color at different brightness levels, I get different measures (and dE). So I was wondering if there was a good practice as brightness can also vary from one phone to the other.

Thanks!

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post #24 of 24 Old 05-15-2019, 12:25 AM
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Ah - yes.
If the QP has more than 25 patches you will need to purchase Connect to use it.
So you are correct, in that Grey Only is the only one you can use with the free version.

And if brightness affects colour, that is something you do need to profile to see what the issue/effect is, as it is part of the colour management of the screen.

You will really need to do a full volumetric profile to see what is actually happening with the screen under all input stimulus values.
(When ColourSpace is released you will be able to see such issues far easier.)

However, do use a small patch size, to avoid ABL type issues.

Steve

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