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post #1261 of 1904 Old 02-11-2020, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
My “OMG” post was referring to Tyler explaining the issue the other user had, and the fact it was caused by LG replacing a C9 with a C8 under warranty.

But yeah, I use my i1d3 mounted on a boom mic stand, complete with a fixed level to assist set up, and a 360 degree self levelling laser level (horizontal and vertical cross lasers) to assist with aiming and positioning. My i1Pro2 sits on a fully adjustable tripod and is aimed and positioned the same way. I use a measuring tape to set the exact distance of each probe to match FOV, and Ted’s meter positioning pattern from his disk to give a point of reference on screen to aim for. It takes 20-30 minutes each time to set up, but it is totally worth it.


I'd love to mimic this setup, I have a tripod etc I can use for my id3 but the i1pro2 sits awkwardly on it, what attachments/tripod did you use for the i1pro2?
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post #1262 of 1904 Old 02-11-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mdamien View Post


I'd love to mimic this setup, I have a tripod etc I can use for my id3 but the i1pro2 sits awkwardly on it, what attachments/tripod did you use for the i1pro2?
My i1Pro2 OEM came with a tripod mount in the kit. The attached picture is from Ted’s site (where I purchased the meter) but is the exact mount that comes with the i1Pro2 OEM
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post #1263 of 1904 Old 02-11-2020, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
My i1Pro2 OEM came with a tripod mount in the kit. The attached picture is from Ted’s site (where I purchased the meter) but is the exact mount that comes with the i1Pro2 OEM
@liberator72 , Which level to line up your probes are you using again?

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post #1264 of 1904 Old 02-11-2020, 11:03 PM
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@liberator72 , Which level to line up your probes are you using again?
I am just on my way out of the door to work, so I don't have time to actually set up now to show how it all actually looks in use, but you can see in the attached images the basic concept.

I use the self levelling laser on a purpose made staff set behind the positions of the 2 probes with the cross line aimed directly at the center cross of the meter positioning pattern on screen.

I then adjust the height of both probes so that the level laser line isa running through the center of of each ones sensor.

If running one probe after the other, the vertical line then lines up with the center of each in turn so that each aims directly to the center of the pattern on screen.

If running simultaneous, I place each a couple inches either side of the vertical line, but as the laser line continues through you still have the point of reference for the probes to aim for.

The boom mic stand holding the i1d3 has the little level bubble on a camera adapter so ensures the i1d3 is level on the stand.

The tripod has a similar level bubble which is barely visible in the picture but is easily visible in actuality.

I then just use a measuring tape to set distances of the meters, and this is something I'm still playing with to see if I can find an ideal safe distance to set to give consistent readings with a larger area in my environment.

All of this is moot with professional meters as they have built in aiming lasers, but as consumer meters do not, and I have all this extra stuff laying around from the work I do, I've just made use of it the best I can.
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post #1265 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdamien View Post
[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]

I'd love to mimic this setup, I have a tripod etc I can use for my id3 but the i1pro2 sits awkwardly on it, what attachments/tripod did you use for the i1pro2?
My i1Pro2 OEM came with a tripod mount in the kit. The attached picture is from Ted’️s site (where I purchased the meter) but is the exact mount that comes with the i1Pro2 OEM
Ahhh okay, I have the same mount so I think I just need a sturdier tripod then.
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post #1266 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mdamien View Post
Ahhh okay, I have the same mount so I think I just need a sturdier tripod then.
See the picture in the above post. The one I use is a Bosch trade tripod. Just one that I don’t need at work anymore. But any reasonable tripod should do as the i1Pro2 isn’t a heavy device.

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post #1267 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 06:57 AM
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@liberator72

If that's your I1D3 in the center photo, I would strongly advise you to not put tension on its lead that way. There are several tiny wires in that cable, and although there's strain relief, it isn't much. That can even be pushed down into the shell, with disastrous results. Ask me how I know this...
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post #1268 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
@liberator72

If that's your I1D3 in the center photo, I would strongly advise you to not put tension on its lead that way. There are several tiny wires in that cable, and although there's strain relief, it isn't much. That can even be pushed down into the shell, with disastrous results. Ask me how I know this...
The picture is highly deceptive. It does look like there is tension on the wire but I can assure you there isn’t. I have small little cable ties holding the wire to the boom stand to keep it tidy and to stop it snagging when I fold it away for storage. But it great advice nonetheless and something people should always bear in mind
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post #1269 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 11:14 AM
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Dolby Config File Modification

Hey guys.

Been tracking this for a while, since so much of the content I watch is on Netflix or Disney plus, and Dolby Vision takes advantage of my B8 the greatest.

When you choose to calibrate SDR, HDR, or Dolby Vision with an alternative white point, you can complete the entire process for every mode except Dolby Vision. When you create the Config File for Dolby Vision, it always defaults the white point to D65.

It seems that Dolby assumes that the white point is based on the reading it takes of the white patch, but it does not. It always defaults to .3127 and .3290 regardless of the grayscale white point you performed.

I have been calibrating the 20 pt grayscale to .308 . 313 since I was so happy with how it looked with SDR content and HDR gaming.

Yesterday I tried editing the file to .3080 .3130 figuring it wouldn't make a difference. What I saw was that while I wasn't at the correct white point, it seems that the Dolby Engine takes that info and tries to ADJUST to D65.

So, I decided to try using an overcorrection by adding the difference.

0.3127 - 0.308 = 0.0047 + 0.3127 = 0.3174
0.3290 - 0.313 = 0.0160 + 0.3290 = 0.3450

So, if you want to target .308 .313 you would edit the Dolby File to this:

# Dolby Vision User Display Configuration File
# Generated by 5.10.2.49 on 2/11/2020
# Display: Unspecified
# DM Version:
PictureMode = 2
Tmax = 729.953513983731
Tmin = 1E-11
Tgamma = 2.2
ColorPrimaries = 0.6765 0.3234 0.2662 0.6735 0.1455 0.0493 0.3174 0.3450
TLMS2RGBmat = 4.32797357185 -3.44998107855457 0.122007506704564 -0.921443107652753 2.05717252080437 -0.135729413151611 0.0563360532490141 -0.126130215679782 1.06979416243077



I haven't done any verification but I would assume you can leave the Primaries and Secondaries at the measured P3 coordinates.

I'm still testing this. I watched a ton of content and was really happy with what I saw. Has this been discussed? Seems pretty straight-forward as a solution and you can basically use this info to calibrate DoVi to any alternative white point that suits your panel.

For instance, the D-Nice white point for 2019 LG OLED 55/65" you would simply edit the coordinates to .3164 .3290 in the config file.

Judd White Point for RGB OLED would become .3187 .3400

I don't have the best equipment. Amateur at best. I'm using a laptop with Internal Pattern Gen, HDFury Integral, and Calman Home with my 65" B8.

Has anyone else tried this and can measure the results? My only worry is that the DV engine will still be adjusting to D65.

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post #1270 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
See the picture in the above post. The one I use is a Bosch trade tripod. Just one that I don’t need at work anymore. But any reasonable tripod should do as the i1Pro2 isn’t a heavy device.
Hmm okay, yeah, I think my main issue is when I try to calibrate my GT60 plasma as opposed to my LG C8, the GT60 is mounted on the wall and at an angle which makes placement of the i12pro in its default upright position really awkward.

I have a unit underneath the tv which sits the center speaker/receiver/powered amp/nvidia shield etc, so in general getting my meters set up there is a hassle.

My C8 is straight forward since its on a stand not mounted on the wall (not yet anyway , that will change once i replace the GT60 with this years LG OLED)
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post #1271 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I am just on my way out of the door to work, so I don't have time to actually set up now to show how it all actually looks in use, but you can see in the attached images the basic concept.

I use the self levelling laser on a purpose made staff set behind the positions of the 2 probes with the cross line aimed directly at the center cross of the meter positioning pattern on screen.

I then adjust the height of both probes so that the level laser line isa running through the center of of each ones sensor.

If running one probe after the other, the vertical line then lines up with the center of each in turn so that each aims directly to the center of the pattern on screen.

If running simultaneous, I place each a couple inches either side of the vertical line, but as the laser line continues through you still have the point of reference for the probes to aim for.

The boom mic stand holding the i1d3 has the little level bubble on a camera adapter so ensures the i1d3 is level on the stand.

The tripod has a similar level bubble which is barely visible in the picture but is easily visible in actuality.

I then just use a measuring tape to set distances of the meters, and this is something I'm still playing with to see if I can find an ideal safe distance to set to give consistent readings with a larger area in my environment.

All of this is moot with professional meters as they have built in aiming lasers, but as consumer meters do not, and I have all this extra stuff laying around from the work I do, I've just made use of it the best I can.
Leon, thanks for sharing. It's important that all the enthusiasts reading here see this attention to detail because lining up the probes properly is one of the most important tasks in getting good results.

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Last edited by jrref; 02-12-2020 at 01:55 PM.
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post #1272 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 02:25 PM
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Leon, thanks for sharing. It's important that all the enthusiasts reading here see this attention to detail because lining up the probes properly is one of the most important tasks in getting good results.
To be completely honest John, it isn't ideal and I make no claims that it is in anyway perfect. But until I manage to get high end meters (I plan to get the Jeti next month, the Klein later in the year) I have just got make the best of what I've got available to me, and that is all anyone can really do.

My thoughts are that if I can get into the (good) habit of being meticulous about the way I do things now and get great results then that can only improve when I get better gear to do it with.

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post #1273 of 1904 Old 02-12-2020, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I plan to get the Jeti next month, the Klein later in the year
OT:
Hobbies cost but Klein K10-A and Jeti Spectraval 1511 just for enthusiast sounds little extravagant, 15 000$ (as new) just for meters + upgrading software lisence
You must really like what you´re doing, take into account you started calibration hobby only few months ago
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Leon learned so fast and well that the need for a reference spectro has come naturally.

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Originally Posted by Make73 View Post
OT:
Hobbies cost but Klein K10-A and Jeti Spectraval 1511 just for enthusiast sounds little extravagant, 15 000$ (as new) just for meters + upgrading software lisence
You must really like what you´re doing, take into account you started calibration hobby only few months ago
I actually started a little over a year ago with manual calibrations. It was my first LUT calibration that I did just a few months ago. But yes, it is an extremely expensive hobby that I’ve become very passionate about and it’s come to a point that anything further I want to do is going to require true reference equipment. It definitely isn’t for everyone, that’s for sure.
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post #1276 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 01:26 AM
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Been following this thread a little bit but there's only so much time you can spend readings months of posts. I'm currently on a C7 but am looking to getting a CX this year as well as Calman home to use autocal as its just too painful spending hours manually calibrating, as im not as much of a hobbyist as some others here. Have the black level issues when calibrating for HDR/DV been addressed on LGs side with a firmware update? Also i imagine that if i wanted to use my i1D3 I'd still be stuck with using raw xyz unless i do the workaround to use lightspace's EDR for WOLED?
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post #1277 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 05:04 AM
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1st question answer is: no

2nd question answer is: LS FSI EDR has been created on a 2018 panel.

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post #1278 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 05:54 AM
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I actually started a little over a year ago with manual calibrations. It was my first LUT calibration that I did just a few months ago. But yes, it is an extremely expensive hobby that I’ve become very passionate about and it’s come to a point that anything further I want to do is going to require true reference equipment. It definitely isn’t for everyone, that’s for sure.
I'm at that budget precipice myself. But being retired and on a fixed income, it isn't likely to happen.
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I'm at that budget precipice myself. But being retired and on a fixed income, it isn't likely to happen.
I never really intended to get so hooked into calibration the way I have, but it fascinates me and it is extremely addictive. I love learning something new all the time and I spend many, many hours a week just reading, measuring, experimenting and generally just researching as much as I can about the science behind it all. If I am honest it is well outside my normal comfort zone, but I am fortunate enough to have made some great contacts that I converse with fairly regularly, and the some of the advice and support those guys give is priceless.

It is also those guys (they know who they are) that have inspired me to chase perfection on a reference level which is why I made the decision to get a Jeti and eventually a Klein whilst I am still in a position to be able to earn the extra income to do so. Obviously the next step would be a reference pattern generator, but that will have to wait until next year
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post #1280 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I never really intended to get so hooked into calibration the way I have, but it fascinates me and it is extremely addictive. I love learning something new all the time and I spend many, many hours a week just reading, measuring, experimenting and generally just researching as much as I can about the science behind it all. If I am honest it is well outside my normal comfort zone, but I am fortunate enough to have made some great contacts that I converse with fairly regularly, and the some of the advice and support those guys give is priceless.

It is also those guys (they know who they are) that have inspired me to chase perfection on a reference level which is why I made the decision to get a Jeti and eventually a Klein whilst I am still in a position to be able to earn the extra income to do so. Obviously the next step would be a reference pattern generator, but that will have to wait until next year
Tell me about it. I've been chasing that dragon since 2002!

If you're looking to do DV, reference generators for that are few, far between, and very expensive. Bur for SDR and HDR there are less-expensive options. The RPi is one, but it's 1080p RGB Full only at this time. It can also be used in conjunction with an HDFury box to provide metadata for HDR. Another good candidate is the DVDO AVLab TPG. It's discontinued now, but can be found used or NIB discounted (mine was). It will do up to 4K (not HDR), YCbCr, and RGB Full/Limited (or High/Low, whatever your display system calls it). I think Miki would agree with me on these! The AVLab can also be used in conjunction with an HDFury box to do HDR calibrations.
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Tell me about it. I've been chasing that dragon since 2002!



If you're looking to do DV, reference generators for that are few, far between, and very expensive. Bur for SDR and HDR there are less-expensive options. The RPi is one, but it's 1080p RGB Full only at this time. It can also be used in conjunction with an HDFury box to provide metadata for HDR. Another good candidate is the DVDO AVLab TPG. It's discontinued now, but can be found used or NIB discounted (mine was). It will do up to 4K (not HDR), YCbCr, and RGB Full/Limited (or High/Low, whatever your display system calls it). I think Miki would agree with me on these! The AVLab can also be used in conjunction with an HDFury box to do HDR calibrations.
I read this info in repeat in this thread and other, that rpi is helpful. What's the difference between an rpi and a pc with a Intel or nvidia card that has correct output with or without madtpg sending the patterns?
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post #1282 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Tell me about it. I've been chasing that dragon since 2002!

If you're looking to do DV, reference generators for that are few, far between, and very expensive. Bur for SDR and HDR there are less-expensive options. The RPi is one, but it's 1080p RGB Full only at this time. It can also be used in conjunction with an HDFury box to provide metadata for HDR. Another good candidate is the DVDO AVLab TPG. It's discontinued now, but can be found used or NIB discounted (mine was). It will do up to 4K (not HDR), YCbCr, and RGB Full/Limited (or High/Low, whatever your display system calls it). I think Miki would agree with me on these! The AVLab can also be used in conjunction with an HDFury box to do HDR calibrations.
I already have the RPi PGenerator and the HD Fury Integral 2 for SDR/HDR, and my bit accurate notebook HDMI output in conjunction with the HD Fury works flawless for me every time to kick Dolby Vision into playon my C7, my daughters C8 and my C9. We will see what happens if/when PGenerator is developed for the RPi 4, but if that doesn't happen then you can be sure that Miki will be the first person I talk to about selecting a pattern generator. His work in the cheap TPG accuracy thread was of great benefit to the entire community, as it is with many of the other things he does/has done.

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post #1283 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I read this info in repeat in this thread and other, that rpi is helpful. What's the difference between an rpi and a pc with a Intel or nvidia card that has correct output with or without madtpg sending the patterns?
No difference really. GPU outputs are only accurate when set to RGB Full, and the RPi is also only accurate at RGB Full. In this respect they are, for all intents and purposes, identical. That is if you know for sure that your GPU output is indeed bit accurate. I know for sure that mine is because if it wasn't then I wouldn't be able to produce Dolby Vision patterns when used in conjunction with my HD Fury Intergral.

The one thing that could cause a difference is a future driver update to the GPU on a PC/laptop which could in theory potentially break the accuracy of the output, whereas this will not happen to the RPi.

Edit: I guess one difference is that with a GPU you could set different resolutions and/or refresh rates, but as far as accuracy goes, they are the same.

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Last edited by liberator72; 02-13-2020 at 11:18 AM.
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post #1284 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I read this info in repeat in this thread and other, that rpi is helpful. What's the difference between an rpi and a pc with a Intel or nvidia card that has correct output with or without madtpg sending the patterns?
In my opinion, probably not much, functionally. Realistically, complexity (hardware + calibration software + madtpg) for novices, and cost for those that don't already have computers with the needed graphics cards. The RPi is another low-cost option that can be driven by at least two of the major calibration software packages.

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post #1285 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I read this info in repeat in this thread and other, that rpi is helpful. What's the difference between an rpi and a pc with a Intel or nvidia card that has correct output with or without madtpg sending the patterns?
In addition to what Rolls-Royce has written above, I would say that rpi always sends the signal one way and you can count on it. On the other hand, there is a chance the PC signal output can change inadvertently based on the settings. By the question, you are already aware of this and it is not likely to happen but you have to be sure of PC settings whereas with RPI it is always oneway(unless you run Device control and intentionally change it).
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post #1286 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
I already have the RPi PGenerator and the HD Fury Integral 2 for SDR/HDR, and my bit accurate notebook HDMI output in conjunction with the HD Fury works flawless for me every time to kick Dolby Vision into playon my C7, my daughters C8 and my C9. We will see what happens if/when PGenerator is developed for the RPi 4, but if that doesn't happen then you can be sure that Miki will be the first person I talk to about selecting a pattern generator. His work in the cheap TPG accuracy thread was of great benefit to the entire community, as it is with many of the other things he does/has done.
I just got my new laptop today and am reinstalling my whole world (so fun) and DV is on my list of things to try again once I get calman reinstalled. This thing is an area51m so it SHOULD be bit perfect with some coaxing. I have some time off to play around with it soon.

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post #1287 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 01:46 PM
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Yea, I agree with the others on the RPI. I built one even though I have a fairly hefty HTPC already with madtpg set up. The reason is that when I wanna calibrate, I simply plugin the RPI and I'm ready to go. And I know out of the gate it's accurate. If I forget to set something right on the HTPC it can totally waste a few hours of calibration time getting inaccurate results. RPI is great.
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post #1288 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Leon learned so fast and well that the need for a reference spectro has come naturally.
Sure, but the money for it doesn't come naturally! Everyone I know in real life thinks I'm crazy* for spending almost the full cost of my TV on software and hardware to do what I do - and I've got the cheap stuff.

*expressed either openly or very politely.

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post #1289 of 1904 Old 02-13-2020, 03:47 PM
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I am preparing to purchase a colorimeter and software to calibrate my new 65" C9, my old Vizio b3-series, as well as possibly my parent's Samsung TV, and a friend's LG as well. Are the issues with CalMAN and LUTs fixed? Are they going to be fixed? While the price-point is attractive, I refuse to spend money on software that doesn't fully work. Lightspace may cost twice as much, and HCFR is free, but why should CalMAN get my business?

Note - I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't work for Lightspace (don't work at all, actually), and I have no vested interest in any particular solution. I want my C9 to look as good as I can get it, without spending more than ~$500-$1000. I've looked into one of the traveling calibrators, but I'd rather spend a bit more money and be able to calibrate my TV (and the others mentioned) when necessary, rather than $400 per visit.

Edit: My current understanding of the primary software choices are the ones mentioned above: HCFR, CalMAN (for LG in this case - I'm not buying a crazy license), or LightSpace. If there are others, please feel free to suggest them and why. The hardware I was hoping to use, is the "X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus (EODIS3PL)." I understand there are higher-quality colorimeters out there, but my desires come with budgets attached to them. If someone can make the argument of 'better colorimeter/cheaper software' then please again, feel free. (For example, the C6 HDR2000?)

I'm posting this here because CalMAN for LG is one of the first options I considered due to price. Again - I'm not looking to start any fights, but would be interested in feedback from those who have used the program, and in particular, what other software (if any) you also ended up using and why. Again - no fighting, but the LUT issue is of importance to me.

Thank you all in advance.
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Last edited by Trekari; 02-13-2020 at 04:33 PM.
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post #1290 of 1904 Old 02-14-2020, 05:59 AM
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Just installed the latest Calman, and running a new calibration on my C9 with an i1 Display Pro.

I seem to recall you could set the HDR calibration to insert a grey image every x number of seconds, for y amount of time. That doesn’t seem available in the latest version of Calman - does it do it automatically now?

Apologies, can’t remember the technical name for it....!


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