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post #1291 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Trekari View Post
I am preparing to purchase a colorimeter and software to calibrate my new 65" C9, my old Vizio b3-series, as well as possibly my parent's Samsung TV, and a friend's LG as well. Are the issues with CalMAN and LUTs fixed? Are they going to be fixed? While the price-point is attractive, I refuse to spend money on software that doesn't fully work. Lightspace may cost twice as much, and HCFR is free, but why should CalMAN get my business?

Note - I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't work for Lightspace (don't work at all, actually), and I have no vested interest in any particular solution. I want my C9 to look as good as I can get it, without spending more than ~$500-$1000. I've looked into one of the traveling calibrators, but I'd rather spend a bit more money and be able to calibrate my TV (and the others mentioned) when necessary, rather than $400 per visit.

Edit: My current understanding of the primary software choices are the ones mentioned above: HCFR, CalMAN (for LG in this case - I'm not buying a crazy license), or LightSpace. If there are others, please feel free to suggest them and why. The hardware I was hoping to use, is the "X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus (EODIS3PL)." I understand there are higher-quality colorimeters out there, but my desires come with budgets attached to them. If someone can make the argument of 'better colorimeter/cheaper software' then please again, feel free. (For example, the C6 HDR2000?)

I'm posting this here because CalMAN for LG is one of the first options I considered due to price. Again - I'm not looking to start any fights, but would be interested in feedback from those who have used the program, and in particular, what other software (if any) you also ended up using and why. Again - no fighting, but the LUT issue is of importance to me.

Thank you all in advance.
I am happy with Calman Home. I bought a 55" C9 at the November price and already had an i1D3 from earlier adventures in calibrating with HCFR. Given the comparatively limited amount I paid for the TV, I thought $150 and a little time would be a very reasonable price to pay to improve what was already a great picture out of the box.

It has turned out to be a LOT of time, mostly reading the forums and gradually acquiring information, but I do not regret my decision at all. I ended up having a local calibrator profile my meter against the TV, which gives me some peace of mind that I can trust the numbers I see in Calman. That added to the cost, but worth it.

The LUT issue, such as it is, is not fixed yet. From what I understand, the recommendation is still to do the Lightning LUT for best results. That is what I have done, and the results may not look good if you put them in that Lightspace cube rendering or on a really tough test pattern, but in content they look pretty good to me. There are video tutorials that really help to get up to speed. If you really care about LUT accuracy, then you maybe should forego Calman and go the Lightspace route. But then you will definitely not want to rely on your meter being accurate enough out of the box, if you have gone to all that trouble to get a perfect cube. Those who have advanced to Lightspace seem to really really like it, and it seems to have an almost unlimited well of tech support. But it is more expensive, more of a learning curve and may lead to going off the calibration deep end!

For those of us that just want to get the TV looking as good as reasonably possible and then move on, I think the Calman license is a great value. (From what I have seen from screenshots, Calman has a much more polished and user-friendly interface than Lightspace, if you care about that.) On your concerns about buying software that doesn't fully work, I am taking the view that since the Lightning LUT works, the software works, especially for $150. If it did not even include those less-working parts, I would still have bought it. I like the fact that the next version may address the LUT issues and I can come back and maybe make the calibration even better, without spending any more money.

I have used HCFR and for free software it is amazing, and if you have a lot more time than money, than it maybe makes sense, but if you can afford the $150 then I don't see why someone would use that over purchasing Calman.
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post #1292 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 07:27 AM
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I'd like to ask a question...is there anything unique about the LG C9 SDR "Cinema" and "Technicolor" picture modes, or are they just "labels"? The point of my question is this - can I calibrate "Cinema" exactly the same as I would calibrate "Expert (Dark)", and calibrate "Technicolor" exactly as I would calibrate "Expert(Bright)"??? By doing so I would protect my existing professional calibrations of the ISF Expert modes, yet be able to experiment with doing my own calibration using the other modes. (I do not use SDR Technicolor or SDR Cinema modes, so it doesn't matter to me if they get messed up!)

Also, what has been the experience so far with LG C9 drift, i.e., how long before they are likely to have actually changed enough that a new calibration is desirable?

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post #1293 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 08:08 AM
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CalMAN Home for LG

Just had Calman crash when trying to upload the HDR tonemap. Anyone else encountered this?

EDIT - just restarted Calman, skipper greyspace and colour calibration and it was fine.


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post #1294 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhn View Post
I'd like to ask a question...is there anything unique about the LG C9 SDR "Cinema" and "Technicolor" picture modes, or are they just "labels"? The point of my question is this - can I calibrate "Cinema" exactly the same as I would calibrate "Expert (Dark)", and calibrate "Technicolor" exactly as I would calibrate "Expert(Bright)"??? By doing so I would protect my existing professional calibrations of the ISF Expert modes, yet be able to experiment with doing my own calibration using the other modes. (I do not use SDR Technicolor or SDR Cinema modes, so it doesn't matter to me if they get messed up!)

Also, what has been the experience so far with LG C9 drift, i.e., how long before they are likely to have actually changed enough that a new calibration is desirable?
Each of the PMs OOTB have different settings and Technicolor SDR has a different white point but they are all just picture modes that can be calibrated the same if you wanted. The only special PM is Game on the LG.

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post #1295 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 09:42 AM
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Does anyone know if the i1Display Pro Plus works with CalMAN yet?
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post #1296 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Each of the PMs OOTB have different settings and Technicolor SDR has a different white point but they are all just picture modes that can be calibrated the same if you wanted. The only special PM is Game on the LG.
Wonderful! Thanks!

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post #1297 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Further to my above post, here are some tips on how you can generate 1080p DV patterns from your Intel iGPU using CalMAN Home. Please note that it has been quite some time since I last actually did this, so some steps may be missed or in the wrong order, but if memory serves me right, it should be correct.



The first thing to do is to make sure your GPU settings are correct. Everything needs to be set at 1080p both on your monitor and HDMI output. There can be no colour management or ICC files in place on your monitor and no display scaling either. Just reset everything to default if either are the case, and then double check in display settings that scaling is 100% as it is often set to 125% to help with text size by default.



Connect your HDMI out to the TOP HDMI in (1) of the Integral 2, and then from the TOP HDMI out (OUT1-1080) to the TV input. At this point, open your GPU settings panel and make sure all is reset to default to ensure any colour management is also removed there and make sure it is set to extended display. Select 1920 x 1080 resolution, 24Hz refresh rate, Maintain Display Scaling and RGB Full output.



Do a FULL RESET on the Integral using the HD Fury GUI. If you have it configured for other use, back up the config first to be able to reload after. Unlock the unit using the key press trick (refer to HD Fury for instructions). Slider settings are HDCP - 1.4, EDID - Automix, Scale - No Scaling. In the GUI, in the first EDID tab, make sure 2020/xcYcc is checked. If I remember correctly, this is the only one necessary but feel free to experiment selecting anything else that relates to HDR in this section if the following steps fail. Close the GUI for now.



Open CalMAN, load a DV Workflow, and progress to the Hardware/Pattern select screen but go no further. In CalMAN Source Settings, Open Pattern Window and drag to your extended display. Double Click to full screen. Back on the CalMAN screen it will ask you to set DV Metadata to Relative Mode. Ignore this and set it to ABSOLUTE. This is found in the Source Settings drop down under HDR Mode.



Re open HD Fury GUI, select the AVI/VSI IF tab, and in the the Custom Vendor Specific In box, copy/paste the following string. DO NOT SEND IF YET.



81:01:18:36:03:0c:00:20:01:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00 :00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00



In CalMAN, click Next where you should now see the Red background with a Yellow patch appear on screen. As soon as this appears on your display, return to the HD Fury GUI and send the IF you just pasted as quickly as possible. The screen should go black, and a white patch should appear with the Dolby Vision pop-up.



You can now switch between Relative and Absolute Metadata Modes at will and as the workflow requests.



If you get the Dolby Vision pop-up, but the screen remains only black, your iGPU is either still wrongly configured, or is not bit accurate.



This works for me with an Intel HD 620 integrated GPU each and every time, without fail.
I had to scroll a ways to find this post. Lol

I wanted to thank you very much for this. I have everything setup on my new alienware laptop with an rtx 2080 and figured I'd give it a try and see if it was bit accurate. It is! Configured everything like you said and got it into dv calibration mode. Currently doing a 20 point grayscale. Seems to be going as well as HDR usually does so that's a good sign. Really appreciate this detailed post on how to get it to work. Very excited to see the results of this calibration!

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post #1298 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I had to scroll a ways to find this post. Lol

I wanted to thank you very much for this. I have everything setup on my new alienware laptop with an rtx 2080 and figured I'd give it a try and see if it was bit accurate. It is! Configured everything like you said and got it into dv calibration mode. Currently doing a 20 point grayscale. Seems to be going as well as HDR usually does so that's a good sign. Really appreciate this detailed post on how to get it to work. Very excited to see the results of this calibration!

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Glad to see it worked for you. Just remember that if you want to do it again in the future, you must double check that all the settings are configured correctly and it will work every time.

A major step to ensure that it works with this method (GPU/HD Fury combo) is to ignore the part in the beginning of the workflow where it asks to set your pattern generator to Relative, and instead set it to Absolute. This is the part that kicks it properly into Dolby Vision mode. Setting it to Relative puts the display into Dolby Vision but without any image on screen. I assume that when using a proper Dolby Vision capable pattern generator (rather than the HD Fury), the workflow instructions would be correct. But as I don't possess such a device I cannot confirm this.

The HD Fury method is a fantastic work around at an affordable price and it's great to see yet another person be successful in getting it to work, so thanks for reporting back.
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post #1299 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Glad to see it worked for you. Just remember that if you want to do it again in the future, you must double check that all the settings are configured correctly and it will work every time.

A major step to ensure that it works with this method (GPU/HD Fury combo) is to ignore the part in the beginning of the workflow where it asks to set your pattern generator to Relative, and instead set it to Absolute. This is the part that kicks it properly into Dolby Vision mode. Setting it to Relative puts the display into Dolby Vision but without any image on screen. I assume that when using a proper Dolby Vision capable pattern generator (rather than the HD Fury), the workflow instructions would be correct. But as I don't possess such a device I cannot confirm this.

The HD Fury method is a fantastic work around at an affordable price and it's great to see yet another person be successful in getting it to work, so thanks for reporting back.
Yea now that I've done it once using the notes I got from you, I can repro it any time I want. I'm pretty methodical...the joys of being a software engineer. I will want to do it again as the result isn't yet perfect but it's so much better than it was at default.

Yea I took copious notes from your posts. Setting up the GPU is a little tricky, especially on this machine. It has g-sync enabled by default which is not helpful. LOL Then I had trouble forcing the 2080 into 1080p but eventually got that. Then I set the scaling. After that I brought up Calman, opened the pattern generator window and dragged it over to the C8. I definitely noted where you said to ignore Relative and setting it to Absolute. Worked like a charm!

Yea,the Integral 2 worked great for this which is what I bought it for in the first place. As a cheap(er) way for us non C9+ owners with their cute little pattern generators built in, it works really well. Really happy! Thanks again!!

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post #1300 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 05:06 PM
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Yea now that I've done it once using the notes I got from you, I can repro it any time I want. I'm pretty methodical...the joys of being a software engineer. I will want to do it again as the result isn't yet perfect but it's so much better than it was at default.

Yea I took copious notes from your posts. Setting up the GPU is a little tricky, especially on this machine. It has g-sync enabled by default which is not helpful. LOL Then I had trouble forcing the 2080 into 1080p but eventually got that. Then I set the scaling. After that I brought up Calman, opened the pattern generator window and dragged it over to the C8. I definitely noted where you said to ignore Relative and setting it to Absolute. Worked like a charm!

Yea,the Integral 2 worked great for this which is what I bought it for in the first place. As a cheap(er) way for us non C9+ owners with their cute little pattern generators built in, it works really well. Really happy! Thanks again!!
Technically speaking you should be able to also do this using 2160P/60Hz. I think the original recommendation to use 1080P/24Hz was to limit the amount of bandwidth used over HDMI. Which makes sense, as it rules out bandwidth limitations being a contributing factor to making any attempt fail. Now that you have successfully managed to trigger DV, if you wanted to try 2160P/60Hz just make sure you are using a true 18Gbps HDMI cable (Premium Certified). All other settings would remain the same.

P.S. Just as an FYI, I've compared using the iGPU/HD Fury against the iTPG on my C9 and they produce identical results

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post #1301 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Technically speaking you should be able to also do this using 2160P/60Hz. I think the original recommendation to use 1080P/24Hz was to limit the amount of bandwidth used over HDMI. Which makes sense, as it rules out bandwidth limitations being a contributing factor to making any attempt fail. Now that you have successfully managed to trigger DV, if you wanted to try 2160P/60Hz just make sure you are using a true 18Gbps HDMI cable (Premium Certified). All other settings would remain the same.
Ohhhhh! I definitely want to try that. Yea I replaced all my cables recently with premium certified cables so bandwidth isn't an issue. That's a great tip.

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post #1302 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 06:55 PM
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OK, now that I have screwed up my cinema home hdr calibration, is there anyway to reset it and do it again. I'm not sure what I messed up, but even after a factory reset whenever I try to calibrate hdr cinema all it get is a black screen. Pattern generator works fine on pre-calibration step, but once I select HDR Cinema and do a full ddc reset I get nothing but black screen doing the grayscale autocal.
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post #1303 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 07:29 PM
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Hi all, I just bought CalMAN Home for LG to calibrate my new 65B9 TV. I am calibrating with the i1Display Pro.

I have a few questions:

1. When I start calibration mode on the TV (calibrating SDR ISF Expert Dark Room), the TV resets my Color Gamut to Wide, and my gamma to 2.2. Is this intended? Normally I use Color Gamut Auto, and I am calibrating for BT.1886.

2. The first step in calibration asks me to set my brightness about 15% brighter than my target. Should I keep this brightness setting throughout the entire calibration process?

also any other tips r suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
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post #1304 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Technically speaking you should be able to also do this using 2160P/60Hz. I think the original recommendation to use 1080P/24Hz was to limit the amount of bandwidth used over HDMI. Which makes sense, as it rules out bandwidth limitations being a contributing factor to making any attempt fail. Now that you have successfully managed to trigger DV, if you wanted to try 2160P/60Hz just make sure you are using a true 18Gbps HDMI cable (Premium Certified). All other settings would remain the same.



P.S. Just as an FYI, I've compared using the iGPU/HD Fury against the iTPG on my C9 and they produce identical results


The TV needs to see perceptual metadata first before going to relative or absolute. Note relative mode bypasses all processing by Dolby Vision and you will measure native panel response. Absolutely Mode will follow a perfect PQ curve and P3 primaries. Perceptual Mode is the type of metadata that a movie uses.

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post #1305 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 08:48 PM
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I'm not sure what's happening here for me with Dolby Vision. I redid it with 2160p/60 and the calibration went fine. I'm watching Mandalorian on my Shield Pro right now and the PQ is fantastic (even though the Calman verification wasn't awesome). However, my UB820 does not work with DV in that mode now (Dolby Vision Home Cinema). It just gives a black screen when it shifts into DV. Again, shield works fine on the same input (all going through my AVR). And the UB820 works fine if I switch it to another DV mode (Cinema, as an example) that I haven't calibrated. Any idea why the shield works but the ub820 doesn't?

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post #1306 of 1377 Old 02-14-2020, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
The TV needs to see perceptual metadata first before going to relative or absolute. Note relative mode bypasses all processing by Dolby Vision and you will measure native panel response. Absolutely Mode will follow a perfect PQ curve and P3 primaries. Perceptual Mode is the type of metadata that a movie uses.
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying there. We're enabling the internal pattern generator and getting it to show the red/yellow screen by using Dolby Vision Absolute metadata, and then enabling Dolby Vision mode using the Integral 2 by sending the DV metadata. Then we can switch to Relative for calibration when needed. Are you saying we're missing something?

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post #1307 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
The TV needs to see perceptual metadata first before going to relative or absolute. Note relative mode bypasses all processing by Dolby Vision and you will measure native panel response. Absolutely Mode will follow a perfect PQ curve and P3 primaries. Perceptual Mode is the type of metadata that a movie uses.
With all due respect, the point I was making to SamuriHL and to anyone else following the conversation was to that to be able to actually kick the LG fully into DV mode, Absolute metadata needs to be set first when using the HD Fury in combination with CalMAN's built in pattern generation, otherwise you get Dolby Vision with just a black screen. As soon as you get that first set up verification patch then you switch back and forth between Relative and Absolute as the workflow instructs you to.

Two snippets from my original post here with the the steps I gave to enable Dolby Vision correctly using a HD Fury Integral 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post

Open CalMAN, load a DV Workflow, and progress to the Hardware/Pattern select screen but go no further. In CalMAN Source Settings, Open Pattern Window and drag to your extended display. Double Click to full screen. Back on the CalMAN screen it will ask you to set DV Metadata to Relative Mode. Ignore this and set it to ABSOLUTE. This is found in the Source Settings drop down under HDR Mode.

You can now switch between Relative and Absolute Metadata Modes at will and as the workflow requests.
Note the bolded sections.

Again, this is just instructions on how to get the LG's to correctly show the initial setup verification patch, at which point you would obviously change the metadata to Relative or Absolute when the workflow instructs you to. The initial set up guide for calibrating Dolby Vision on the 2017 LG OLED's here was made using the previous generation Integral which I believe you had a major part in coming up with (thank you for that), but the original instructions for that version of the Integral do not work with an Integral 2 and the steps I provided do. Obviously none of this need apply to owners of a 2019 LG OLED due to the iTPG, but for 2018 LG OLED owners that do not have the iTPG but can still use CalMAN AutoCal to calibrate Dolby Vision, these instructions can be of some benefit as an affordable DV TPG solution.

Incidentally, with the addition of the legacy workflow pack which contains the DV Manual Calibration workflow and is compatible with CalMAN Home (I actually submitted a request for that after the very first release of Home for LG, and was pleased to see it released very quickly), it also works for owners of a 2017 LG OLED so that they can manually calibrate the greyscale and create the correct DV config file for those models too.
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post #1308 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I'm not sure what's happening here for me with Dolby Vision. I redid it with 2160p/60 and the calibration went fine. I'm watching Mandalorian on my Shield Pro right now and the PQ is fantastic (even though the Calman verification wasn't awesome). However, my UB820 does not work with DV in that mode now (Dolby Vision Home Cinema). It just gives a black screen when it shifts into DV. Again, shield works fine on the same input (all going through my AVR). And the UB820 works fine if I switch it to another DV mode (Cinema, as an example) that I haven't calibrated. Any idea why the shield works but the ub820 doesn't?
Absolutely no idea. I've never come across such an issue. I also have the Panasonic DP-UB820 and any Dolby Vision calibration I have done in the past works perfectly fine when playing any DV content from any source, whether it be internal apps, or external devices.

I can't see how it would be the case, but try re doing it with 1080/24 or even 2160/24 in your GPU settings in case it is somehow related to the frequency of the signal you are sending?

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post #1309 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Absolutely no idea. I've never come across such an issue. I also have the Panasonic DP-UB820 and any Dolby Vision calibration I have done in the past works perfectly fine when playing any DV content from any source, whether it be internal apps, or external devices.



I can't see how it would be the case, but try re doing it with 1080/24 or even 2160/24 in your GPU settings in case it is somehow related to the frequency of the signal you are sending?
Yeah this one surprised me, too. Especially where it works on the shield and not the ub820. The only other thing I can think of, and can't see how this would matter either, is that I'm calibrating on a different hdmi input than I use for playback. But after the calibration I do the apply to all inputs to make sure the settings match. I'll play around with it today and see if I can troubleshoot it so we can make a note of it for anyone else who wants to try it.

I'm just grateful to get this working and the calibration looks really good. The de is pretty high though. Like average a bit over 5 for both grayscale and color. Both spike max over 10. Even so it's improved over default.

Thanks again for your help on this. I was starting to give up on getting this to work and now am really happy I can work on improving my results.

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post #1310 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Yeah this one surprised me, too. Especially where it works on the shield and not the ub820. The only other thing I can think of, and can't see how this would matter either, is that I'm calibrating on a different hdmi input than I use for playback. But after the calibration I do the apply to all inputs to make sure the settings match. I'll play around with it today and see if I can troubleshoot it so we can make a note of it for anyone else who wants to try it.

I'm just grateful to get this working and the calibration looks really good. The de is pretty high though. Like average a bit over 5 for both grayscale and color. Both spike max over 10. Even so it's improved over default.

Thanks again for your help on this. I was starting to give up on getting this to work and now am really happy I can work on improving my results.

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I believe you said you calibrated Cinema Home? You are never going to get anywhere near accurate post calibration greyscale results when calibrating that mode. The Cinema Home picture modes in both HDR and Dolby Vision do not follow the PQ EOTF curve. Luminance is boosted as it is intended for a brighter viewing environment. So when making adjustments with "Enable Calibration" checked, and DV metadata set to "Relative", the results will look good. But when you uncheck "Enable Calibration" and set metadata to "Absolute", you are no longer taking measurements based to 2.2 Gamma, and the TV's internal processing is boosting luminance above the PQ EOTF curve and is likely why you are seeing those high averages and spikes in post cal greyscale results.

The following is something I have messed around with that you might want to try if you are spending some time experimenting. It will initially take a long time, but could potentially save you some time in the long run.

When performing AutoCal in HDR or DV, initially set the the dE target a little higher so that the automatic adjustments are made in a fairly quick manner. Something like dE 1.5 - 2.0 should finish pretty quickly and give a reasonable baseline to work with further. Leave pattern insertion at the default set values for now.

When AutoCal completes, set some really aggressive pattern insertion levels. When I did this I set 3/25/0 which means after 3 seconds of readings a full 0% black will display for 25 seconds. This will counter the luminance boosting significantly when bright white patches are displayed for long periods in HDR. You can set this slightly less aggressive if you like, just make sure you set it to something that allows the panel to fully cool and settle between reads.

Then hit "Read Continuous" and make adjustments using the DDC controls to reduce your dE values manually. As you work you way down the greyscale towards the area outputting luminance in the SDR range (100 nits) then you can adjust the pattern insertion levels to something less aggressive, e.g. 25/5/0, and continue to tweak.

Once done, hit "Read Series" to confirm you tweaks were successful, and if you are happy with the results make sure you take a screenshot of all the values within the DDC panel.

Continue your workflow as instructed on screen.

Now, whenever you want to either calibrate another HDR/DV picture mode, you can set the initial dE values in the greyscale AutoCal as high as you want to ensure the AutoCal runs as quickly as possible, and then manually use the DDC panel to insert the values from the screenshot you just took, because all HDR/DV picture mode greyscale adjustments are based to the same 2.2 Gamma before the TV's processing converts it to PQ EOTF.

I can confirm I have tried this several times over the past 2-3 weeks on my C9 and found it to work repeatedly well, with some very minor adjustments being required at times which takes just a few minutes. I can also confirm that when doing this and spending extra time ensuring the very low luminance portion of the greyscale is as good as I can get it with an i1d3, I do not see any raised black issues reported by others in HDR Cinema or HDR Technicolor.

This is not for everyone as some do not have the time nor patience to try such things, and of course YMMV, but it has worked for me and might be of some use to others too.
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post #1311 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 06:37 AM
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Leon in addition to your point in the above post, what CM really needs a feature to store and retrieve the data from the native gray scale calibration so you do it once in HDR then you can re-use it for DV since it's the same native panel gray scale calibration. Or you can re-use it whenever you want. I put in a feature request for this a while back so maybe we will see this in CM 2020?
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post #1312 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 06:48 AM
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Might be a stupid question.... when calibrating SDR with a non-profiled i3 Display Pro, what should I be setting the colour calibration to? Time based, meter based, lighting LUT etc...?


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post #1313 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 07:11 AM
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Lightning lut for now.

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post #1314 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 07:13 AM
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Thanks guys. That's a great idea for a partial manual calibration. And yes I was doing cinema home. I'll try cinema once I get home cinema working. I left that one alone because it's the most accurate out of the box.

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post #1315 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Leon in addition to your point in the above post, what CM really needs a feature to store and retrieve the data from the native gray scale calibration so you do it once in HDR then you can re-use it for DV since it's the same native panel gray scale calibration. Or you can re-use it whenever you want. I put in a feature request for this a while back so maybe we will see this in CM 2020?
100% agree and I believe it has been something that's been mentioned by many for quite some time. Just saving the data from the DDC controls shouldn't too difficult to implement so that it can uploaded to multiple slots within the TV, and is in fact what we do when using LightSpace. With LS, you create one single 1D LUT for HDR, and upload it to all of your HDR or DV modes, and that's it, done.

I only experimented with this to see if I got the same raised blacks others were reporting, and I can categorically state without doubt that I do not after repeated attempts using the above method when using an i1d3.

My assumptions are that with the combination of the low light limitations of the i1d3 (and possible poor meter setup by some) combined with the way AutoCal seems to use random guesswork to make adjustments (which can be infuriating to watch in action), it is making adjustments that aren't actually required when you start to measure anything below 15%, and even more so from 10% and below. Taking the time to adjust these manually makes a huge difference.

But even above 15%, results can vary between runs. Displaying a patch for no longer than 2-3 seconds and making the adjustments manually actually produces better results for me currently, hence why setting a high dE target to begin with to make the auto adjustments end as quickly as possible but with a reasonable baseline to work with is a good start. WRGB OLED panels are so unstable (especially with high luma patches), displaying the patches for any significant amount of time is going to produce random and weird results.

Plus the fact you have to actually run AutoCal for the DDC control panel to populate before you can make any adjustments, so all of the above seems to me to be a reasonable, albeit time consuming workaround for those that want to give it a try and potentially get better results.

Just remember to take that screenshot of the DDC values after doing it all otherwise you will find you've spent all that extra time and effort with no record of the values to transfer to the other HDR/DV modes
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post #1316 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
100% agree and I believe it has been something that's been mentioned by many for quite some time. Just saving the data from the DDC controls shouldn't too difficult to implement so that it can uploaded to multiple slots within the TV, and is in fact what we do when using LightSpace. With LS, you create one single 1D LUT for HDR, and upload it to all of your HDR or DV modes, and that's it, done.

I only experimented with this to see if I got the same raised blacks others were reporting, and I can categorically state without doubt that I do not after repeated attempts using the above method when using an i1d3.

My assumptions are that with the combination of the low light limitations of the i1d3 (and possible poor meter setup by some) combined with the way AutoCal seems to use random guesswork to make adjustments (which can be infuriating to watch in action), it is making adjustments that aren't actually required when you start to measure anything from 15%, and even more so from 10% and below. Taking the time to adjust these manually makes a huge difference.

But even above 15%, results can vary between runs. Displaying a patch for no longer than 2-3 seconds and making the adjustments manually actually produces better results for me currently, hence why setting a high dE target to begin with to make the auto adjustments end as quickly as possible but with a reasonable baseline to work with is a good start. WRGB OLED panels are so unstable (especially with high luma patches), displaying the patches for any significant amount of time is going to produce random and weird results.

Plus the fact you have to actually run AutoCal for the DDC control panel to populate before you can make any adjustments, so all of the above seems to me to be a reasonable, albeit time consuming workaround for those that want to give it a try and potentially get better results.

Just remember to take that screenshot of the DDC values after doing it all otherwise you will find you've spent all that extra time and effort with no record of the values to transfer to the other HDR/DV modes
Right, so as everyone knows it the one biggest variables with the OLEDs is drift so in an ideal world you want to take the measurement as quickly as possible to minimize this. This is where the faster pro meters show their value since they read very quickly and I very rarely see raised blacks and if I do I make manual adjustments and or do a re-run. Even when I calibrate manually, I leave the patch up only as long as needed to take the reading then put a 15% gray patch up while I'm making adjustments. And your right, and I keep saying this, Autocal is not 100% and I don't think any automated system can be, so you need to understand what you are seeing in the results so you know if they are good and if not make any necessary changes. With the OLEDs the more variables you can mitigate, the better your results will be.

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post #1317 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 07:37 AM
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Might be a stupid question.... when calibrating SDR with a non-profiled i3 Display Pro, what should I be setting the colour calibration to? Time based, meter based, lighting LUT etc...?
Lightning LUT if you don´t want artifacts.
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post #1318 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 08:06 AM
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That begs the question of whether llh should be used or not. Because if you're trying to get a faster read, and I concur with the comments on drift, setting the llh to 4 or 5 might cause more problems than it solves, correct? Especially if you're doing manual ddc tweaking anyway.

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post #1319 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
Then hit "Read Continuous" and make adjustments using the DDC controls to reduce your dE values manually.
I am trying to tweak the near black levels using the DDC controls but they do not seem to be making any changes on the TV. (I tried with 10% as a test and increased red dramatically but nothing on the chart is changing.) Should "enable calibration" be checked, or is there something else that I need to do?
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post #1320 of 1377 Old Yesterday, 09:07 AM
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You definitely need to have calibration enabled else you can't change the values.

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