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post #1 of 12 Old 06-08-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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SDR white at 400 Nits?

I've been calibrating my 75Q9FN to an SDR white level of 200 nits rather than the standard 100 nits and enjoying it. To celebrate a new firmware and for the unusual experience it might provide I just calibrated to 400 nits . Understand I used to calibrate my previous Sharp Elite to 30 nits to get the best possible blacks. But here I'm getting great better blacks at 400.

I mostly watch in totally dim ambient so it took a bit adapting to it, but whoa! It's calibrated, so colors appear in sync across the spectrum. And better shadow detail! While the blacks are great in this set the handling of the really low IREs is middling and can lead to some black crush and loss of some shadow detail even when calibrated (normally). I was hoping raising the relative low levels would help, and sure enough.

The Knights Who Say Nit will be appalled and horrified by this calibration, but I'm shocked to say I'm quite ecstatic! I'm having a hard time stopping watching my Roku Ultra Virtual Fish Tank for which I paid one time $2 plus $1 for the additional fishies.

Are there any bad aspects I might be looking for in this hyper-bright calibration?
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post #2 of 12 Old 06-08-2019, 09:49 AM
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I'd say possible cataracts from looking into that all the time...
You aren't seeing any banding in color ramps?

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post #3 of 12 Old 06-08-2019, 09:53 AM
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I would check clipping with Teds wrgbcmy test patterns.

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post #4 of 12 Old 06-08-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I'd say possible cataracts from looking into that all the time...
You aren't seeing any banding in color ramps?
No banding detected. I may start wearing sunglasses though . It's amazing how the eye adapts. I do watch a lot of dark stuff anyway.

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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
I would check clipping with Teds wrgbcmy test patterns.
I've checked white clipping with HDMV and can just make out level 253. The thing with this panel is that with contrast over 34-35 levels over 235 start getting pinkish. I'm at 33 and no pinks.

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post #5 of 12 Old 06-08-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I've been calibrating my 75Q9FN to an SDR white level of 200 nits rather than the standard 100 nits and enjoying it. To celebrate a new firmware and for the unusual experience it might provide I just calibrated to 400 nits . Understand I used to calibrate my previous Sharp Elite to 30 nits to get the best possible blacks. But here I'm getting great better blacks at 400.

I mostly watch in totally dim ambient so it took a bit adapting to it, but whoa! It's calibrated, so colors appear in sync across the spectrum. And better shadow detail! While the blacks are great in this set the handling of the really low IREs is middling and can lead to some black crush and loss of some shadow detail even when calibrated (normally). I was hoping raising the relative low levels would help, and sure enough.

The Knights Who Say Nit will be appalled and horrified by this calibration, but I'm shocked to say I'm quite ecstatic! I'm having a hard time stopping watching my Roku Ultra Virtual Fish Tank for which I paid one time $2 plus $1 for the additional fishies.

Are there any bad aspects I might be looking for in this hyper-bright calibration?
Like you, I have trouble going too low nits wise. My recent calibration is to just above 150 nits (on a Sony) for a 10% window (with a few more nits at a 100% window, but that's not how CalMAN recommends basing it). I say if you like it at that, more power to you. What I can say would probably be a no-go for me at 400 would be bright white (or bright solid color like yellow) scenes. I would think they'd be absolutely eye-searing; granted, it's a problem more with things like ads, etc., so if you mostly watch movies, it may not be an issue.
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post #6 of 12 Old 06-08-2019, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
Like you, I have trouble going too low nits wise. My recent calibration is to just above 150 nits (on a Sony) for a 10% window (with a few more nits at a 100% window, but that's not how CalMAN recommends basing it). I say if you like it at that, more power to you. What I can say would probably be a no-go for me at 400 would be bright white (or bright solid color like yellow) scenes. I would think they'd be absolutely eye-searing; granted, it's a problem more with things like ads, etc., so if you mostly watch movies, it may not be an issue.
I was thinking that too, but I was amazed how my eyes adapted after a while. I would say the most challenging is when you have both very dark and very bright regions in the same frame, but even there I now love it.
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post #7 of 12 Old 06-09-2019, 01:57 AM
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Do remember that Rec709 (SDR) is a relative standard, as is HLG.
The concept of 100 nits peak white is only valid in a controlled environment, with around 5 to 10 nits surround illumination.
(It was specified as 10% peak display white, and that ratio can be used a s a rough guide for setting the display peak luma whne the viewing environment is brighter...)

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/viewing_environments.html

PQ HDR is an absolute standard, which is one of the reasons it struggle in your average home environment.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

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post #8 of 12 Old 06-09-2019, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Do remember that Rec709 (SDR) is a relative standard, as is HLG.
The concept of 100 nits peak white is only valid in a controlled environment, with around 5 to 10 nits surround illumination.
(It was specified as 10% peak display white, and that ratio can be used a s a rough guide for setting the display peak luma whne the viewing environment is brighter...)

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/viewing_environments.html

PQ HDR is an absolute standard, which is one of the reasons it struggle in your average home environment.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

Steve
Good info, thanks Steve!

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post #9 of 12 Old 06-09-2019, 04:27 PM
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The human eye has a STATIC dynamic range of 1:100 , and it adjusts the eye iris depending on the light..

This is the reason why every videophile and professional recommend a rather low peak brightness.. aka 100 nits, 120 nits.. Only then you can see "everything"

400 nits brightness in a dark room is the answer why you cant see dark details

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post #10 of 12 Old 06-09-2019, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
The human eye has a STATIC dynamic range of 1:100 , and it adjusts the eye iris depending on the light..

This is the reason why every videophile and professional recommend a rather low peak brightness.. aka 100 nits, 120 nits.. Only then you can see "everything"

400 nits brightness in a dark room is the answer why you cant see dark details
I'm seeing better shadow detail than I did at 200 nits, go figure. But of course it also depends on what the brightness range is in any particular scene. For me the pluses are way better than the minuses. But as always YMMV ...

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post #11 of 12 Old 06-09-2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I'm seeing better shadow detail than I did at 200 nits, go figure. But of course it also depends on what the brightness range is in any particular scene. For me the pluses are way better than the minuses. But as always YMMV ...
Then I misread your comment:

While the blacks are great in this set the handling of the really low IREs is middling and can lead to some black crush and loss of some shadow detail even when calibrated (normally)..

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post #12 of 12 Old 06-09-2019, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post
Then I misread your comment:

While the blacks are great in this set the handling of the really low IREs is middling and can lead to some black crush and loss of some shadow detail even when calibrated (normally)..
The bottom line for me is calibrating to 400 nits provides better performance in the low IRE getting me better shadow detail than if I calibrated this display to 100 nits given that the low IRE is now somewhat brighter and the display can handle it better. While the span between black and white makes it harder for the eye to adjust between the two, in real content I usually get better shadow detail visually.

But your observations are definitely valid and appreciated.

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