Projector Calibration (6040UB) - Second Look - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 235 Old 07-30-2019, 11:47 AM
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Adam, I tried your SDR 2.2 20fl setting and I guess it's seems a touch dimmer compared to what I've been using. I generally haven't used my ub820 for regular Blu ray (have an OPPO 93 I use) so the mapping is basically done at the projector level. I'm still new but I stumbled on a Dave Harper/nielvm combo for SDR(started with Dave's and forgot to remove nielvm's so I now have a combo) that I like so far. I tried to do my own little calibrations so I'm sure its off but it looks good to me. Using a 5040ub gamma of -1.


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post #212 of 235 Old 07-30-2019, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jidelite View Post
Adam, I tried your SDR 2.2 20fl setting and I guess it's seems a touch dimmer compared to what I've been using. I generally haven't used my ub820 for regular Blu ray (have an OPPO 93 I use) so the mapping is basically done at the projector level. I'm still new but I stumbled on a Dave Harper/nielvm combo for SDR(started with Dave's and forgot to remove nielvm's so I now have a combo) that I like so far. I tried to do my own little calibrations so I'm sure its off but it looks good to me. Using a 5040ub gamma of -1.
jidelite

Not sure how I can make the image any brighter without losing accuracy, 20fL is pretty bright for SDR in front projection.



I think a gamma of 2.2 in a light controlled enviroment it really as low as you want to go.
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post #213 of 235 Old 07-30-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Not sure how I can make the image any brighter without losing accuracy, 20fL is pretty bright for SDR in front projection.
Unless the throw distance, screen size and screen gain are all the same, the luminance can vary significantly even with the same settings.

The luminance can be adjusted using the iris, without affecting other calibrations too much.
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post #214 of 235 Old 07-30-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
The settings I posted for SDR use the gamma formulation ITU.BT.1886 @Dominic Chan is this preferred for front projection?

I have updated the first post with my settings for SDR using a gamma of 2.2 at 20fL.

I did watch Chernobyl with these setting and I did find them a little dark but I was unsure if that was the source material or not.

Not had chance to watch anymore content yet as have been really busy.

Let me know if you guys find the 2.2 settings any better.
Slightly better for gaming but still a little dim. But I will try a movie next.
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post #215 of 235 Old 07-31-2019, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Slightly better for gaming but still a little dim. But I will try a movie next.

When you say "dim" do you mean the overall image brightness is low or you are finding blacks being crushed?
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post #216 of 235 Old 07-31-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
When you say "dim" do you mean the overall image brightness is low or you are finding blacks being crushed?
Yes, the brightness. Blacks look good to me. But let me try a movie today and I will post if it's better there. Have you tried it for games or movies aside from Chernobyl?
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post #217 of 235 Old 07-31-2019, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the brightness. Blacks look good to me. But let me try a movie today and I will post if it's better there. Have you tried it for games or movies aside from Chernobyl?

Not yet, I just have not had the time. I hope to this weekend if everything goes to plan.

I did watch some sports from my cable box & I was more than happy with how bright the image was.

Are you in a fully light controlled enviroment? Are your wall, ceiling & floor treated to minimize reflections back onto the screen?

I am in a total bat cave so I could say at points that at 20fL on scenes where there was near full white it was a little to bright.

I have read that having the image too bright will cause you to miss shadow detail & crush blacks due to the way the human eyes works.

When exposed to bright light the iris constricts to limit the amount of light hitting the retina to protect it, it takes some time for the iris to open back up again allowing use to see all the black detail.

This is why you set the black level during calibration in the environmental conditions you will be watching content in.

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 07-31-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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post #218 of 235 Old 07-31-2019, 06:58 PM
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Not yet, I just have not had the time. I hope to this weekend if everything goes to plan.

I did watch some sports from my cable box & I was more than happy with how bright the image was.

Are you in a fully light controlled enviroment? Are your wall, ceiling & floor treated to minimize reflections back onto the screen?

I am in a total bat cave so I could say at points that at 20fL on scenes where there was near full white it was a little to bright.

I have read that having the image too bright will cause you to miss shadow detail & crush blacks due to the way the human eyes works.

When exposed to bright light the iris constricts to limit the amount of light hitting the retina to protect it, it takes some time for the iris to open back up again allowing use to see all the black detail.

This is why you set the black level during calibration in the environmental conditions you will be watching content in.
I am not in a light controlled environment so that could be the reason, can't speak for others. My theater room is currently in development, drywall was just put up yesterday actually. Right now I'm just playing around with the projector (5040UB) in a light grey wall with a semi-gloss finish.
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post #219 of 235 Old 07-31-2019, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nightwing-DG View Post
I am not in a light controlled environment so that could be the reason, can't speak for others. My theater room is currently in development, drywall was just put up yesterday actually. Right now I'm just playing around with the projector (5040UB) in a light grey wall with a semi-gloss finish.

That explains it then, like Dominic says just back of the manual iris & see if that gets it bright enough for you.
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post #220 of 235 Old 08-01-2019, 10:57 AM
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That explains it then, like Dominic says just back of the manual iris & see if that gets it bright enough for you.
Adam, I tried a couple of movies and they looked amazing without changing the Iris. Appreciate all the help and for sharing your calibration settings.
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post #221 of 235 Old 08-01-2019, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Adam, I tried a couple of movies and they looked amazing without changing the Iris. Appreciate all the help and for sharing your calibration settings.

No problem, enjoy
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post #222 of 235 Old 08-11-2019, 10:24 PM
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Adam, Was playing around with your SDR 2.4 @ 20fL with my OPPO 93 again (had to get a HDFury device to circumvent the HDCP 2.2 'no sound' issues I was having with my Marantz 6013). I turned Super White to OFF and that seemed to make that slightly dim picture I was seeing compared to a Harpervision setting I was using actually (to my eyes) now look better. So now I'm curious - what does turning Super White Off do to your calibration? Thanks again for your hard work!


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post #223 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jidelite View Post
Adam, Was playing around with your SDR 2.4 @ 20fL with my OPPO 93 again (had to get a HDFury device to circumvent the HDCP 2.2 'no sound' issues I was having with my Marantz 6013). I turned Super White to OFF and that seemed to make that slightly dim picture I was seeing compared to a Harpervision setting I was using actually (to my eyes) now look better. So now I'm curious - what does turning Super White Off do to your calibration? Thanks again for your hard work!


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Super white will cause whites to be clipped very early if you turn it off.

You can check this with any pattern to check contrast it will be very easy to see.

The pattern on the AVS 709 disc is great for this.
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post #224 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Super white will cause whites to be clipped very early if you turn it off.

You can check this with any pattern to check contrast it will be very easy to see.

The pattern on the AVS 709 disc is great for this.
Turning on Super White extends the upper end from 235 to 255. It eliminates clipping but cuts the peak luminance by 20%.

A less drastic way to reduce clipping is by lowering the Contrast, but that may require re-adjusting the top end gamma settings.

In any case, clipping at 100% input for HDR is not an issue as the tone mapping clips the input at 75% input for 1000 nits curves, and at 90% for 4000 nits curves.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 08-12-2019 at 06:18 AM.
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post #225 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Turning on Super White extends the upper end from 235 to 255. It eliminates clipping but cuts the peak luminance by 20%.

A less drastic way to reduce clipping is by lowering the Contrast, but that may require re-adjusting the top end gamma settings.

In any case, clipping at 100% input for HDR is not an issue as the tone mapping clips the input at 75% input for 1000 nits curves, and at 90% for 4000 nits curves.

I probably could have worded it clearer but I did say turning super white off causes whites to clip early.


I left super white off for my HDR modes to maintain as much luminance as possible.
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post #226 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 06:43 AM
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I probably could have worded it clearer but I did say turning super white off causes whites to clip early.
Yes you did. I was only pointing out that an alternative is to reduce the contrast, which does not sacrifice the luminance as much.
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post #227 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes you did. I was only pointing out that an alternative is to reduce the contrast, which does not sacrifice the luminance as much.

Interesting, I will try that next time but from what I remember adjusting the contrast control more than 3-4 clicks either way screwed the CMS up.


I found that the 20% saturation points became under saturated resulting in a Delta E error over 2, I was able to correct this with the CMS controls but if I did points 40%, 60% & 80% were thrown way off target resulting in even greater errors.
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post #228 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 08:20 AM
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Interesting, I will try that next time but from what I remember adjusting the contrast control more than 3-4 clicks either way screwed the CMS up.


I found that the 20% saturation points became under saturated resulting in a Delta E error over 2, I was able to correct this with the CMS controls but if I did points 40%, 60% & 80% were thrown way off target resulting in even greater errors.

I'm certainly very new to EPSON/5040ub and I just don't have the grasp of how all these different settings interact with each other - even with just regular SDR/Blu-ray.


Thanks Dominic for explaining what happens with Super White; I believe that 20% reduction in luminance probably gives me the perception that the image has become dimmer than what I've been seeing.


Adam, I can understand you wanting to technically reduce clipping and remain as accurate as possible; it's what I would want but to my eye the image just had less pop (sorry for the ambiguous term). Again, I've read so many post with calibration technics and settings that my head is spinning and I greatly appreciate what you, Dominic and others have contributed. Calibrating a 5040ub seems way more complicated than calibrating a HW55es just for SDR/Blu-ray. For UHD discs, I use your 500nit (med) setting. I wish EPSON would do auto switching; at least they should give us a way to display what memory setting we are actually using.


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post #229 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 08:27 AM
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Thanks Dominic for explaining what happens with Super White; I believe that 20% reduction in luminance probably gives me the perception that the image has become dimmer than what I've been seeing.
You also have the option of opening up the manual iris, if you need/prefer a brighter image.
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post #230 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 08:46 AM
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You also have the option of opening up the manual iris, if you need/prefer a brighter image.
Thanks Dominic, I will also play with the iris to see how things look. I have it at -6 as Adam specified in his SDR setting. My old Spears and Munsil Blu-ray disc is getting a good workout (have to get the new one soon).


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post #231 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Dominic, I will also play with the iris to see how things look. I have it at -6 as Adam specified in his SDR setting. My old Spears and Munsil Blu-ray disc is getting a good workout (have to get the new one soon).


jidelite

Are you in a dedicated room with treated walls, ceiling & floor?
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post #232 of 235 Old 08-12-2019, 11:16 AM
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Are you in a dedicated room with treated walls, ceiling & floor?

Yes, I have a completely dedicated, light controlled room. My walls my not have black velvet - my screen wall is painted a matted black (120in 1.1 gain screen), all other walls and ceiling are a matted dark burgundy. My floor is a dark grey carpet.


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post #233 of 235 Old 08-21-2019, 10:36 AM
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No problem, enjoy
I am setting up a 5040UB and I think I'll start with your settings and see how it goes. Thanks for all of your hard work on this!

Just to be clear, your 'latest' settings are all in the original post...correct? I'm assuming so since I see that the original post was updated...but just thought I'd check to make sure.
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post #234 of 235 Old 08-21-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I am setting up a 5040UB and I think I'll start with your settings and see how it goes. Thanks for all of your hard work on this!

Just to be clear, your 'latest' settings are all in the original post...correct? I'm assuming so since I see that the original post was updated...but just thought I'd check to make sure.

You are correct, I updated the first post with my most current settings.


Let me know how you get on.
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post #235 of 235 Old 08-22-2019, 05:31 AM
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I'm still really enjoying these setting. Thanks again!
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Panny UB820, Denon X6300H in 6.1.4 mode, Epson 5040UB, SVS PCUltra paired with a MiniDSP HD and BEQ (of course!)
Working on making things blacker...
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