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post #571 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 06:34 AM
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You're most welcome. I expected it to work when you connected directly! Hope you can get it sorted when it's connected directly, and then after that, maybe even with passthrough.
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post #572 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Hi,

Any idea why the disc is telling me that my TV or player is not supporting HDR10+? Both in the Panasonic GZ2000 and the DP-UB820 the HDR10+ option is switched on, also the Denon X6500 is in 'passthrough' mode.
When you connected the player directly to the display, did you restart the player? Hot swap may not work with HDR10+ or Dolby Vision. e.g. OPPO into Samsung QLED did not show HDR10+ until I rebooted the OPPO. You need to power cycle the player first.

We don't block HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, we just display the warning.

There is a hidden info page that will provide some additional information. When the disc loads and you are on the configuration menu, move the cursor to the top right so that P3D65|BT.2020 is highlighted. Now press the right arrow five times. It should now take you to the hidden info page.


First, if the player does not support Dolby Vision or HDR10+, then the display will not show it as supported. If there is a check in both columns, then the warning message will not be shown. The Profile 5 has never had a check next to that I have seen, even when 3D is supported.

You are seeing Dolby Vision supported in both cases (through Denon and directly connected), correct?
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post #573 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
When you connected the player directly to the display, did you restart the player? Hot swap may not work with HDR10+ or Dolby Vision. e.g. OPPO into Samsung QLED did not show HDR10+ until I rebooted the OPPO. You need to power cycle the player first.

We don't block HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, we just display the warning.

There is a hidden info page that will provide some additional information. When the disc loads and you are on the configuration menu, move the cursor to the top right so that P3D65|BT.2020 is highlighted. Now press the right arrow five times. It should now take you to the hidden info page.


First, if the player does not support Dolby Vision or HDR10+, then the display will not show it as supported. If there is a check in both columns, then the warning message will not be shown. The Profile 5 has never had a check next to that I have seen, even when 3D is supported.

You are seeing Dolby Vision supported in both cases (through Denon and directly connected), correct?
I indeed did a power cycle and DV is supported in both cases.

The hidden menu is very helpful, thank you for that! It is showing that the GZ2000 is Not supporting HDR10+. I double checked again and it is set to ON in the TV menu.
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post #574 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
I indeed did a power cycle and DV is supported in both cases.

The hidden menu is very helpful, thank you for that! It is showing that the GZ2000 is Not supporting HDR10+. I double checked again and it is set to ON in the TV menu.
When you play any HDR10+ content, does the display report it as HDR10+ vs. HDR10? Maybe the display needs a FW update.

You also have HDR10+ enabled in the player, correct? Of course, it may not show the check next to the player if not enabled.

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post #575 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 12:06 PM
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Why did something so useful and cool have to be hidden? :/

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post #576 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Why did something so useful and cool have to be hidden? :/
Seemed like a nice Easter egg. Honestly, it could lead to a lot of support questions.
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post #577 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
When you play any HDR10+ content, does the display report it as HDR10+ vs. HDR10? Maybe the display needs a FW update.

You also have HDR10+ enabled in the player, correct? Of course, it may not show the check next to the player if not enabled.
Yes, both player and TV have HDR10+ enabled.
When I play Alita (this disc has DV and HDR10+), the movie is shown in DV. When I select DV off in the TV (or player) the display reports HDR10(PQ). Maybe a bug in the TV...
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post #578 of 632 Old 10-20-2019, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
Interesting about the noise.
Per my previous report, and our PM discussion about the moving noise present in the 0% blocks of the sharpness pattern when shown on an LG OLEDC9 with Dynamic Tone Mapping turned ON, I have just installed software version 4.70.05 which appears to have resolved the issue. I am no longer seeing the noise with Dynamic Tone Mapping ON.
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post #579 of 632 Old 10-21-2019, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
Per my previous report, and our PM discussion about the moving noise present in the 0% blocks of the sharpness pattern when shown on an LG OLEDC9 with Dynamic Tone Mapping turned ON, I have just installed software version 4.70.05 which appears to have resolved the issue. I am no longer seeing the noise with Dynamic Tone Mapping ON.
Thank you for the update.

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post #580 of 632 Old 10-21-2019, 12:10 PM
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Found this post and thought I was seeing things. Finally a 4K calibration disc? Sweet! I was literally thinking of buying the 2nd edition since there was no official 4k disc. I tested out the demo material on my Sony Bravia x800D and OMG do I love it. I've always wondered when watching some movies was I really watching the 4K HDR version. My favorite scenes are the Honey, Peacock feather, The red and yellow cactus, the jars with the colored liquid, and the scene that shows a helicopter shot of a city at night. I do have a few questions after reading through the thread. I've seen several mentions that the cinema setting is the best for viewing with OLED TV's. Is this the same for the Sony x800D? Cinema Pro looks VERY similar to what I did with calibrating the custom mode on my tv. Cinema Home makes the colored jars color pop so much more that I love that setting but unfortunately I do notice that the clouds shadows or highlights look blown out, They look too white and some of the detail in the shadow disappear. One other question with the brightness test pattern I can only see the 4% and 2% bar and even then it's barely visible. When I go to change brightness it's already at max. Is this normal to not see much of that test pattern? I have an LG 4K player, I think it's a UBK80, hooked up to my Denon x6300h set to passthrough.
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post #581 of 632 Old 10-21-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatts4Life View Post
Found this post and thought I was seeing things. Finally a 4K calibration disc? Sweet! I was literally thinking of buying the 2nd edition since there was no official 4k disc. I tested out the demo material on my Sony Bravia x800D and OMG do I love it. I've always wondered when watching some movies was I really watching the 4K HDR version. My favorite scenes are the Honey, Peacock feather, The red and yellow cactus, the jars with the colored liquid, and the scene that shows a helicopter shot of a city at night. I do have a few questions after reading through the thread. I've seen several mentions that the cinema setting is the best for viewing with OLED TV's. Is this the same for the Sony x800D? Cinema Pro looks VERY similar to what I did with calibrating the custom mode on my tv. Cinema Home makes the colored jars color pop so much more that I love that setting but unfortunately I do notice that the clouds shadows or highlights look blown out, They look too white and some of the detail in the shadow disappear. One other question with the brightness test pattern I can only see the 4% and 2% bar and even then it's barely visible. When I go to change brightness it's already at max. Is this normal to not see much of that test pattern? I have an LG 4K player, I think it's a UBK80, hooked up to my Denon x6300h set to passthrough.
On the Sony, I believe Cinema Pro is the starting point. At least it is what I use on the Z9D. For LG, I use Cinema. Since you have a Sony, calibrate SDR first. Sony uses the SDR calibration for the basis of HDR calibration. I don't believe anyone else does that.

In HDR, below black is undefined since it was designed as a full range format. While there are code values below black in the pattern, I don't really expect anything to show it, unlike SDR, where I do if you pull brightness up. The player should pass it all to the display.

Here is a shot list of the montage video. The liquid is quantum dot. It is illuminated with a UV light, which is what makes it glow. We plan to add more info such as lens, focal length, etc...

When in doubt, connect the player directly to the display to see if the AVR is doing anything. (as a test, not permanent)
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post #582 of 632 Old 10-25-2019, 01:46 PM
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Was testing a new pattern for hue shifts during tone mapping. When I enable the HDR optimizer on the Panasonic player, the hue shifts go away compared to what I am seeing directly from the Z9D.
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post #583 of 632 Old 10-25-2019, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
Was testing a new pattern for hue shifts during tone mapping. When I enable the HDR optimizer on the Panasonic player, the hue shifts go away compared to what I am seeing directly from the Z9D.
Is that related to Sony hard clip, instead of a soft roll off?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
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post #584 of 632 Old 10-26-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob View Post
Is that related to Sony hard clip, instead of a soft roll off?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk
A hard clip will show hue shift for sure.

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post #585 of 632 Old 10-27-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post
Here is an observation I have made.

With the Panasonic UB820 and my self calibrated LG C8 HDR mode. I can make the HDR 10,000 and HDR 4000 playback of the horses, snow around the lake, sun rise on the far right, white sand, the chick's feathers on the right side, and other scenes show the near white details of the Dolby Vision scenes by doing the following with the UB820.

Set HDR Optimizer to ON with OLED set as the display type.
Move the White Tone Curve control to the highest setting (12).

Enjoy the near white details in the demo material scenes that were not visible with the White Tone Curve control centered.

This setting does dim the whole scene a bit, so you will need to decide if you want to see the near white detail or somewhat brighter scenes.

Stacy, if you have the time and inclination, I would be interested in seeing the tone curve that this setting creates added to your tone curve xlsx.

LeRoy
Here is the updated xls with white tone curve set to 12 and OLED.
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post #586 of 632 Old 10-27-2019, 03:36 PM
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Here is the updated xls with white tone curve set to 12 and OLED.
Thanks Stacey,

That is an interesting curve. Setting the White Tone Curve to 12 with HDR Optimizer On reduces the response for tones between 40 and 90 in order to make tones between 90 and 95 visible.

I suppose it is best to keep that control centered if you want to view HDR content closer to what the creators intended.

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post #587 of 632 Old 10-27-2019, 04:12 PM
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Here is the updated xls with white tone curve set to 12 and OLED.
Thanks, in that sheet,
What is D.R.A.?
What is W.T.C.?

I can only half-follow what I'm looking at. Is this showing what the HDR Optimizer inthe Panasonic player does, for different metadata values and different TV types?

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post #588 of 632 Old 10-27-2019, 05:37 PM
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Thanks, in that sheet,
What is D.R.A.?
What is W.T.C.?

I can only half-follow what I'm looking at. Is this showing what the HDR Optimizer inthe Panasonic player does, for different metadata values and different TV types?
D.R.A. is Dynamic Range Adjustment.
W.T.C is Tone Curve (White).

Both are adjustments that the HDR Optimizer offers. It also has Brightness, System Gamma and Tone Curve (Black).

Yes. I went through the grayscale patterns on the disc at each nit level and wrote down the code value for each pattern after running through the HDR Optimizer. The first row of data is the native pattern values.

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post #589 of 632 Old 10-27-2019, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
D.R.A. is Dynamic Range Adjustment.
W.T.C is Tone Curve (White).

Both are adjustments that the HDR Optimizer offers. It also has Brightness, System Gamma and Tone Curve (Black).

Yes. I went through the grayscale patterns on the disc at each nit level and wrote down the code value for each pattern after running through the HDR Optimizer. The first row of data is the native pattern values.
Right, thanks. Not owning the player put me at a disadvantage
I don't understand though why it's a Line graph and not an X-Y graph. Maybe I'm confusing it with an EOTF curve.
Some of the sheets in the workbook have lines called Series1-6 rather than Baseline, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000 btw. and an X-axis from 1-21. Not a criticism just saying in case you didn't realise

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post #590 of 632 Old 10-27-2019, 07:20 PM
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Right, thanks. Not owning the player put me at a disadvantage
I don't understand though why it's a Line graph and not an X-Y graph. Maybe I'm confusing it with an EOTF curve.
Some of the sheets in the workbook have lines called Series1-6 rather than Baseline, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000 btw. and an X-axis from 1-21. Not a criticism just saying in case you didn't realise
Older sheets do not have the updated labels. I am just providing the data, others can format how they like.
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post #591 of 632 Old 10-29-2019, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blimp View Post
Yes, both player and TV have HDR10+ enabled.
When I play Alita (this disc has DV and HDR10+), the movie is shown in DV. When I select DV off in the TV (or player) the display reports HDR10(PQ). Maybe a bug in the TV...
I have the same display and UHD BD player, so will check to see if I get the same result as you.

ETA: Just had a quick look at the manual and a read around. A couple of things to try:


Disable the 'Optimum HDR Adjustment' setting (turn off the HDR Optimiser).

If the above doesn't rectify the issue, leave that setting disabled and enable the 'Content Type Flag' setting (Home > Setup > Player Settings > HDMI > Advanced Settings)

Paul

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Stacey, Could you add a description to the shot list of the video montage of what precisely we should be looking for?
It would help us newbies a lot.
Cheers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngsyp View Post
I have the same display and UHD BD player, so will check to see if I get the same result as you.

ETA: Just had a quick look at the manual and a read around. A couple of things to try:


Disable the 'Optimum HDR Adjustment' setting (turn off the HDR Optimiser).

If the above doesn't rectify the issue, leave that setting disabled and enable the 'Content Type Flag' setting (Home > Setup > Player Settings > HDMI > Advanced Settings)

Paul
Looked at this last night, with my Panasonic GZ2000 and UB820 and despite seeing the same as the OP i.e. that the display doesn't support HDR10+, using the easter egg page, I played the HDR10+ demo and the logo popped up and it played faultlessly. I then re-checked the easter egg page and it now showed the TV did support HDR10+. Weird but, it all works!

Points to note:


The HDMI HDR Setting in the TV was set to 'Dynamic' and HDR10+ and Dolby Vision 'On'.

The HDR Optimiser was disabled in the player.

The 'Content Type Flag' was set to 'Automatic' in the player (this must be the default).

Both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision support were enabled in the player.

Paul
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post #594 of 632 Old 10-30-2019, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john hunter View Post
Stacey, Could you add a description to the shot list of the video montage of what precisely we should be looking for?
It would help us newbies a lot.
Cheers.
I will add that to the to do list.

Some shots I liked or thought looked good and some do stress the display. Sadly, have not seen a single display that looks like what it did on the mastering display. At 4000 nits, for example, it is simply different. More depth, more colorfulness and more life-life in some cases. Let me try and give an example.

Take shot 59, the Barred Owl that is outside. Under 2000 nits, it looks like the owl is under a scrim. (something to diffuse the light to make it soft and even). At 4000 nits, it looks like the owl is in direct sunlight and there is a hotter spot near the center top of the owls head.

The falcon and red eyed frog look like they are coming out of the screen at 4000 nits.

On the opening shot, you get veiling glare in your eye at 4000 nits. What I mean is you can pause and not see much detail in the bottom half until you cover the top half of the screen (bright areas) with something then now you see a lot more detail. Similar to what you encounter in real life.

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post #595 of 632 Old 10-30-2019, 12:18 PM
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How to videos

I once saw some videos on using the new HD disc. I now do not seem to be able to find them. I've checked S&M's site and have done a search in this thread. I'm probably overlooking an obvious link somewhere. But, could any of you provide a link for the videos for this HD disc? TIA!
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post #596 of 632 Old 10-30-2019, 09:05 PM
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I once saw some videos on using the new HD disc. I now do not seem to be able to find them. I've checked S&M's site and have done a search in this thread. I'm probably overlooking an obvious link somewhere. But, could any of you provide a link for the videos for this HD disc? TIA!
We did not make any how to videos.

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post #597 of 632 Old 10-31-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sspears View Post
We did not make any how to videos.
My error. I must have been thinking of another product. Thanks for your response.

I obviously do have your new HD disc. It is very informative and useful. I was asking about the videos to make sure I was using some of the test patterns correctly.

I appreciate all the work you have put into this project. I can only guess how long it took/how difficult it was to complete this.
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post #598 of 632 Old 10-31-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Vidop View Post
My error. I must have been thinking of another product. Thanks for your response.

I obviously do have your new HD disc. It is very informative and useful. I was asking about the videos to make sure I was using some of the test patterns correctly.

I appreciate all the work you have put into this project. I can only guess how long it took/how difficult it was to complete this.
No problem. If someone had made videos, I would love to see them. We would support anyone that wants to make some videos.

The tricky thing with HDR is that we can't show correct results in a web article or video unless both are viewed in HDR. It is an interesting situation. We have looked into making basic videos, but in the end, not a lot of value for those. (brightness, contrast, color/tint and sharpness)

If you have any pattern questions, please ask. We are happy to answer. Everyone has different questions. And with HDR, the right answer may still be a few years away when the industry has a better grasp on HDR and how things should be done.

Stacey Spears
Co-Creator, Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark
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post #599 of 632 Old 10-31-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by brygalt_hdr View Post
Stacey,
I don't see halos with either 0 or 1 in HDR. Eventually I do as I continue to increase sharpness. By the way, the max sharpness value on my TV is 20.

In SDR the behavior is quite different and maybe more like what you were expecting. In SDR the boxes blend into the sharpness pattern background at most sharpness setting values. Eventually I can turn it up enough to see them, but nowhere near the sensitivity I see in HDR.

One thought I had that might account for this difference between SDR and HDR is that my budget TV is not a true 10 bit panel, its 8bit+FRC. Could the Frame Rate Control dithering be interfering with your nyquist/2 patterns when my TV is displaying HDR content?
Stacey, What are your thoughts on my FRC reasoning above?

Thanks
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post #600 of 632 Old 11-01-2019, 04:26 AM
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Stacey, What are your thoughts on my FRC reasoning above?

Thanks
Should not cause an issue.

Stacey Spears
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