Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark Disc - Discussion - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 150 Old 06-28-2019, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark Disc - Discussion

Just got my retail copy


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post #2 of 150 Old 06-28-2019, 08:36 PM
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post #3 of 150 Old 06-29-2019, 03:31 AM
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What exactly is it capable of providing for a cost of almost 40 bucks is my first question?

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post #4 of 150 Old 06-29-2019, 09:02 AM
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post #5 of 150 Old 06-29-2019, 05:07 PM
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Mine came in today. Quick service from Amazon.

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post #6 of 150 Old 06-29-2019, 05:59 PM
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@T( )( )L Thank you for that link by the way. I think it's probably worth it now that I'm aware of all that's included on it to double check your calibration.

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post #7 of 150 Old 07-01-2019, 03:49 AM
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Hi Tyler just got my disc as well , it look like the red color is clipping on hdr?

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post #8 of 150 Old 07-01-2019, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Tyler just got my disc as well , it look like the red color is clipping on hdr?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
This is expected on the OLED TVs from what I have seen (I have been beta testing Stacey’s patterns for the last year.)
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post #9 of 150 Old 07-01-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
This is expected on the OLED TVs from what I have seen (I have been beta testing Stacey’s patterns for the last year.)
Do you know why?

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post #10 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 05:56 AM
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Two quick questions: 1. Does this disc also include 3D calibration, or did that stop with the HD 2nd edition? 2. Are there adequate instructions and information to assist the non-professional in understanding the goals & adjustments for the various patterns? Thanks!

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post #11 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 09:02 AM
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The demo montages on this disk are nothing short of absolutely stunning!! What's more viewing them in either HDR10 vs Dolby Vision just go to show the benefits of Dolby Vision, at least in my case viewing on a 7 series LG OLED where as you move up the clips mastered in the higher nit values in HDR10, I can definitely see some clipping of detail, yet in DV there is no detail lost at all. Maybe this has changed a little on the 2019 sets where you can customise different roll off points in HDR, I look forward to finding out for myself next week when I pick up a C9.

Great job by all those involved in the making of this disk
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post #12 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Two quick questions: 1. Does this disc also include 3D calibration, or did that stop with the HD 2nd edition? 2. Are there adequate instructions and information to assist the non-professional in understanding the goals & adjustments for the various patterns? Thanks!
UHD BD does not support 3D. Current articles on the website will be updated in a couple of weeks for the new disc. A full manual should hopefully be done by end of summer.
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post #13 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
The demo montages on this disk are nothing short of absolutely stunning!! What's more viewing them in either HDR10 vs Dolby Vision just go to show the benefits of Dolby Vision, at least in my case viewing on a 7 series LG OLED where as you move up the clips mastered in the higher nit values in HDR10, I can definitely see some clipping of detail, yet in DV there is no detail lost at all. Maybe this has changed a little on the 2019 sets where you can customise different roll off points in HDR, I look forward to finding out for myself next week when I pick up a C9.

Great job by all those involved in the making of this disk
The 4000 nit montages all hard clip at 4000. This is to visually show you what is clipped. Have you figured out you can jump between different versions by press the up arrow and selecting another version? Same with left and right arrow. Also, when the pop-up is up, you can move it to the left and right side of the screen with the left and right arrows.

I would jump to the peacock feather on the 4000 2020. Then press the right arrow to quickly go to P3 and then 709 to see it change. The red shots show lots of difference between P3 and 709.
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post #14 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
What exactly is it capable of providing for a cost of almost 40 bucks is my first question?
UHD BD is a niche of a niche sadly. Fewer people buy calibration or special discs than feature films. It costs a lot more to author a specialty disc due to the custom navigation. The second edition was $30K just for authoring. That does not include creating, encoding, camera gear, etc... The first two discs were single layer BDs, this one is a triple layer and costs more to replicate. Not many places to replicate a BD100.

This time around the montage was graded by a professional colorist. The montage was shot and finished in 8K HD.

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post #15 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 05:27 PM
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Hi Tyler just got my disc as well , it look like the red color is clipping on hdr?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Are you talking about the Cr high box or the color space conversion?

Don't know why Cr high clips on the LG OLED. I do know that the color space conversion section does not work on current displays in HDR. SDR is fine. This is because of the gamut and nit limitation. It will work on a true 2020 / 10K nit display.

Best way to check color conversion today is using the HDR color bars and the colour filter option on the LG. I have verified it is correct. (Sadly removed from 2019 models) You can tell the 2017 series does the wrong conversion on 709 by using the colour filter option and the HD color bars under the SDR 709 section.
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post #16 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 05:28 PM
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Until there is a manual, I am happy to answer pattern questions.

If Tyler would have told me he started a thread, I would have been here sooner.

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post #17 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 06:32 PM
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The disc serves several groups:

1. End user (if you are looking to buy a new display, then #2 would apply here as well)

2. Reviewers

3. Calibrators

4. CE companies



The first two discs were single layer BDs, this one is a triple layer and costs a lot more to make.
Got it. Thank you. For calibrators to use after they dial in grayscale, gamma and CMS of course.

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post #18 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 06:39 PM
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Got it. Thank you. For calibrators to use after they dial in grayscale, gamma and CMS of course.
For SDR, you can use it to calibrate all of the above. For HDR, its much more difficult because you fight tone mapping while trying to calibrate. For that reason, I consider the window pattern section more of a verification process. The window section is designed to match the HDR Verification workflow in CalMAN.

With that said, when using CalMAN, or other apps, I personally like to use a HW pattern generator for window patterns since it can take a long time and if you have to manually change patterns 2000 times you will want to pull your hair out.
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post #19 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 06:51 PM
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For SDR, you can use it to calibrate all of the above. For HDR, its much more difficult because you fight tone mapping while trying to calibrate. For that reason, I consider the window pattern section more of a verification process. The window section is designed to match the HDR Verification workflow in CalMAN.



With that said, when using CalMAN, or other apps, I personally like to use a HW pattern generator for window patterns since it can take a long time and if you have to manually change patterns 2000 times you will want to pull your hair out.
Makes sense. I calibrated my Sony using HCFR for SDR night mode but I haven't calibrated for HDR yet.

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post #20 of 150 Old 07-02-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sspears View Post
The 4000 nit montages all hard clip at 4000. This is to visually show you what is clipped. Have you figured out you can jump between different versions by press the up arrow and selecting another version? Same with left and right arrow. Also, when the pop-up is up, you can move it to the left and right side of the screen with the left and right arrows.

I would jump to the peacock feather on the 4000 2020. Then press the right arrow to quickly go to P3 and then 709 to see it change. The red shots show lots of difference between P3 and 709.
Yes, I had read something to that effect on the Blu-Ray forum posts and was playing around with the directional buttons to view the different versions. Fantastic work!!
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post #21 of 150 Old 07-03-2019, 05:27 AM
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Great that this has been released!

Would the 4K/HDR test patterns be useful to dial in a 4K/HDR player to work with an SDR display?

Specifically, I have an Oppo 203 connected to a Panni Plasma display. For my 4K/HDR discs, I would like to set-up the Oppo to match the display. There are a handful of HDR specific settings in the Oppo, and I have struggled to properly set them using actual movie content.

Also, are there any audio tests included?

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post #22 of 150 Old 07-03-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sspears View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto84 View Post
Hi Tyler just got my disc as well [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG], it look like the red color is clipping on hdr?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Are you talking about the Cr high box or the color space conversion?

Don't know why Cr high clips on the LG OLED. I do know that the color space conversion section does not work on current displays in HDR. SDR is fine. This is because of the gamut and nit limitation. It will work on a true 2020 / 10K nit display.

Best way to check color conversion today is using the HDR color bars and the colour filter option on the LG. I have verified it is correct. (Sadly removed from 2019 models) You can tell the 2017 series does the wrong conversion on 709 by using the colour filter option and the HD color bars under the SDR 709 section.
Hi There, pleasure to talk to you, i am talking about the Cr high.
As you said i have a 2019 c9 so i dont have the option to check with the filter.
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post #23 of 150 Old 07-03-2019, 10:11 AM
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Hi There, pleasure to talk to you, i am talking about the Cr high.
As you said i have a 2019 c9 so i dont have the option to check with the filter.
The same box clips on the B7 as well. Could be nit or gamut limitation or some processing they are doing. They have the disc, I will follow-up and ask them about it.

Here is a good demo for you since you have a C9.

By default the display is in Cinema Home Mode. While looking at that pattern, switch between cinema home and cinema. You should see the PQ tracking section go from obvious blinking to almost blending. Blending is correct as long as the display can resolve single pixel checkerboard. (LCOS can't)

Be sure to send in 10-bit 4:4:4 into the C9.

Which player are you using? You can take a look at "Scaling HD" and switch between 422 and 444. Also source direct and and native. Look at the horizontal and vertical red and blue chroma diamonds.

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post #24 of 150 Old 07-03-2019, 10:40 AM
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Hi Stacey.

Is there any similar/same patterns on your new disc like the ones from Ted`s test disc (see pic) horizontal/vertical ramps, i found those patterns to be real good to find problems in picture (especially when performing 3d luts) even if we (today) cant do 3d luts in hdr/dv modes it would be nice to have those to see what calman does with the matrix lut.
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post #25 of 150 Old 07-03-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
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Hi There, pleasure to talk to you, i am talking about the Cr high.
As you said i have a 2019 c9 so i dont have the option to check with the filter.
The same box clips on the B7 as well. Could be nit or gamut limitation or some processing they are doing. They have the disc, I will follow-up and ask them about it.

Here is a good demo for you since you have a C9.

By default the display is in Cinema Home Mode. While looking at that pattern, switch between cinema home and cinema. You should see the PQ tracking section go from obvious blinking to almost blending. Blending is correct as long as the display can resolve single pixel checkerboard. (LCOS can't)

Be sure to send in 10-bit 4:4:4 into the C9.

Which player are you using? You can take a look at "Scaling HD" and switch between 422 and 444. Also source direct and and native. Look at the horizontal and vertical red and blue chroma diamonds.
Hi There, thanks for your reply, i have a panasonic uk ub900.
I will let you know of my finding.
Very curious to hear from Lg.
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post #26 of 150 Old 07-03-2019, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Stacey.



Is there any similar/same patterns on your new disc like the ones from Ted`s test disc (see pic) horizontal/vertical ramps, i found those patterns to be real good to find problems in picture (especially when performing 3d luts) even if we (today) cant do 3d luts in hdr/dv modes it would be nice to have those to see what calman does with the matrix lut.


Yes there are, including for different HDR nit levels.
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post #27 of 150 Old 07-04-2019, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Hi Stacey.

Is there any similar/same patterns on your new disc like the ones from Ted`s test disc (see pic) horizontal/vertical ramps, i found those patterns to be real good to find problems in picture (especially when performing 3d luts) even if we (today) cant do 3d luts in hdr/dv modes it would be nice to have those to see what calman does with the matrix lut.
We include an HSV Sweep in both 2020 as well as P3D65 in 2020. It does change based on NIT level. The SDR section also has one for 709. It does not zig-zag like the examples you showed. We ramp value for half the pattern and saturation for the other half.

Here is a sample of what it looks like:
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post #28 of 150 Old 07-05-2019, 08:12 PM
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Hey all. I have been interested in this disc ever since I first heard about it. I have never owned an S&M disc before and when I discovered them not too long ago I heard this was coming so I waited instead of buying the second edition Blu-Ray.


Here is my big question. I do not have any calibration equipment and don't see myself investing in any such thing anytime soon. Would I benefit from this disc at all if all I am going to do is adjust things by eye? I know that isn't the way to do it, but I assume it's better than nothing.

I have an LG C8 TV.
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post #29 of 150 Old 07-06-2019, 04:38 AM
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Hey all. I have been interested in this disc ever since I first heard about it. I have never owned an S&M disc before and when I discovered them not too long ago I heard this was coming so I waited instead of buying the second edition Blu-Ray.


Here is my big question. I do not have any calibration equipment and don't see myself investing in any such thing anytime soon. Would I benefit from this disc at all if all I am going to do is adjust things by eye? I know that isn't the way to do it, but I assume it's better than nothing.

I have an LG C8 TV.
Short answer is a big YES without question.

Actually, the most useful patterns are for visual inspecttion.


This is for the 2nd edition http://spearsandmunsil.com/2nd-edition-articles/ but the principles and some of the patterns discussed are similar on the new UHD disc.
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post #30 of 150 Old 07-06-2019, 06:27 AM
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And if the articles don't answer every question, someone who is very well-recognized and respected on this forum is working on the downloadable user guides as we speak (Scott Wilkinson). We can't think of a better person to be working on this.


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Short answer is a big YES without question.

Actually, the most useful patterns are for visual inspecttion.


This is for the 2nd edition http://spearsandmunsil.com/2nd-edition-articles/ but the principles and some of the patterns discussed are similar on the new UHD disc.
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