HCFR doesn’t recognize my i1 display pro - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
HCFR doesn’t recognize my i1 display pro

Hi everyone I have a problem with HCFR which now doesn’t recognize my i1 display pro. There is a message error: Argyll error. Any suggestions? Thank you very much
jimmyp1974 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 07:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Hi everyone I have a problem with HCFR which now doesn’t recognize my i1 display pro. There is a message error: Argyll error. Any suggestions? Thank you very much
Hi, what kind of i1Display PRO you have? Do you have a normal Retail or OEM version or a branded OEM?

When you connect the meter's USB, while you have the Device Manager of Window open, do you see an entry as a "USB Input Device" under "Human Interface Devices"?

What error its displaying?

All i1Display PRO versions of colorimeter require a USB 2.0 Full Speed (actually is a USB Low Power Device) using USB human interface device class (USB HID class) interface.

Human Interface Device (HID) drivers contained in Windows, there no other drivers required to be installed.

But when you are using 3rd party software (other from X-Rite) you have to disable some X-Rite Services, in case they are running to the windows background.

If you have installed X-Rite's i1Profiler Software, uninstall it if you are not using it and remove the X-Rite Device Manager (if it's installed) using Windows Control Panel.

If you cannot find X-Rite device services in control panel follow instructions below:

Open in the Administrative Tools / Computer Management /

Look for X-Rite Device Services Manager

Double click on that name and a new window will appear.

Click the "Quit" button to close the process.

or:

Run "services.msc". At the bottom of the services list, if you see an X-Rite Device Service listed, turn it off.

These X-Rite devices services are not letting third party software to access the meter to some setups.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Hi thank you for your kind reply.
I have a normal retail i1 display pro bought from Amazon at $256. I uploaded the i1 profiler that I used to calibrate my laptop without HCFR. Now I want to try to calibrate my projector using HCFR. Few weeks ago I tried to practice with the software and it recognized the colorimeter. After selecting DVD manual and plugging in the i1 I could visualize it among the options. Now there is this message error: Argyll error. I didn’t download any Argyll files. Should I ? And remove the i1 profiler program? Thank you very much
jimmyp1974 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 07:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Hi thank you for your kind reply.
I have a normal retail i1 display pro bought from Amazon at $256. I uploaded the i1 profiler that I used to calibrate my laptop without HCFR. Now I want to try to calibrate my projector using HCFR. Few weeks ago I tried to practice with the software and it recognized the colorimeter. After selecting DVD manual and plugging in the i1 I could visualize it among the options. Now there is this message error: Argyll error. I didn’t download any Argyll files. Should I ? And remove the i1 profiler program? Thank you very much
For the start, try to disable the services of X-Rite, to keep your calibration you have as active with i1Profiler.

There no Argyll drivers to download, this required for i1PRO (spectrophotometer users only).

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Ok I’ll try now and I’ll let you know. Thank you very much. In fact I don’t understand the error message from HCFR saying Argyll error
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 08:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Ok I’ll try now and I’ll let you know. Thank you very much. In fact I don’t understand the error message from HCFR saying Argyll error
HCFR is operating all instruments based to ArgyllCMS code, for that reason you see Argyll error.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #7 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Ok now the software recognizes the colorimeter! I am following the guide to use HCFR and it suggests the LCD display type for Lcos projectors like my JVC RS25. There many different LCD display options though. Which one should I properly select? Thank you so much
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 11:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,647
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4654 Post(s)
Liked: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Ok now the software recognizes the colorimeter! I am following the guide to use HCFR and it suggests the LCD display type for Lcos projectors like my JVC RS25. There many different LCD display options though. Which one should I properly select? Thank you so much
I would use projector as display type, not LCD.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #9 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 12:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Ok now the software recognizes the colorimeter! I am following the guide to use HCFR and it suggests the LCD display type for Lcos projectors like my JVC RS25. There many different LCD display options though. Which one should I properly select? Thank you so much


@ Display Type, you will see options about the synchronization mode of the i1Display PRO. (Refresh and Non-Refrest)

The selection between these 2 modes is useful for i1Display PRO users, because i1Display PRO can scan the display refresh rate and sync the reading to the measured refreshing rate.

Don't use the default LCD, its for non-refresh displays type like OLED, LCD etc.

Refresh is for CRT/Plasma or DLP projectors etc.

For your projector select Refresh.

When you select 'refresh', the refreshing period will be measured and this will affect the integration time which will be used for the readings, so it will be faster and more stable.

When you have only a colorimeter, you will have to select the closest match of your display tech (but its not sure if you will have good results without a spectro).

The ideal solution is to use a spectrophotometer to create a unique meter correction table for your projector.

If this is not possible, one solution is to use the default calibration table, with no spectral correction, its the None selection.

When someone don't have access to a spectro, a workaround to improve his color accuracy (for DisplayCAL/HCFR/ArgyllCMS users) is to try locating a CCSS (Colorimeter Correction Spectral Sample) file, if someone has measured with his spectro and uploaded that spectral file for your display, it will work with i1Display PRO or ColorMunki Display (both meters can read spectral corrections).

But when you are using CCSS correction, you assume that the internal spectral data of X-Rite meter from the factory hasn't drifted, since the internal meter spectra + CCSS spectra data are used to create a correction matrix.

DisplayCAL/HCFR/ArgyllCMS support also CCMX file, but using other people CCMX file will not work, only if you have your own meters combo (colorimeter+spectro) you can create matrix based correction (CCMX = Colorimeter Correction Matrix) which will be only valid for your current meters/display.

When you select Spectral Sample 'Projector' the meter loading a spectral correction where X-Rite used spectral samples from DLP or LCD with Ultra High Pressure (UHP) lamps, Marantz/HP/Panasonic Data projection models from 2011-2012 which it may not proper for your projector.

If you don't find any CCSS file for JVC then use Projector or None, I can't recommend you which is the most correct selection.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #10 of 33 Old 08-02-2019, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I am impressed by your accurate expectations. I can tell you are such an expert in this field. I would start with projector option and see what happens. Thank you so much. I’ll keep you posted!!!
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #11 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
I am impressed by your accurate expectations. I can tell you are such an expert in this field. I would start with projector option and see what happens. Thank you so much. I’ll keep you posted!!!
Have a good calibration time, for your measurements, the ideal meter placement for projectors is when the meter is matching the same angle you have from your sitting position eye's height towards to the center of the screen.

You can use a mobile phone or a digital angle meter to find the angle. Imagine a virtual line (you can use a laser pointer) from your eye's @ sitting position aiming the center of the screen, the meter ideally has to placed the that line height and angle.

If you use Window patterns you need to find out the meter's FOV (field of view) also because we don't need the meter to see larger area from the pattern area. (not see the meter shadow also if you place it very close to the screen).

You can see a quick guide to see some examples about meter's FOV, see the C6 numbers which is the same for i1DisplayPRO: https://kb.portrait.com/help/why-vie...e-is-important

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #12 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Here I am again. Attached the results of this first attempt. It is not bad but I am sure I can make it better thanks to the fine adjustments available on my projector. I have a question about gamma option. I selected bt 1886 with a low gamma 2.4. I would like to have a gamma at 2.4-2.5. Which option is better? Thank you!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ACC29593-E946-4763-BC6B-A40B5E2746C9_1564860128564.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	106.3 KB
ID:	2597930   Click image for larger version

Name:	6A6AC955-285E-4655-A5FB-7351E43CFE94_1564860139254.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	121.3 KB
ID:	2597932   Click image for larger version

Name:	E9876901-A27F-4B29-B7C6-5CE403F5FF53_1564860153840.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	2597934   Click image for larger version

Name:	99DD64FA-F434-49F6-B660-5B232C7D4410_1564860166475.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	90.0 KB
ID:	2597936   Click image for larger version

Name:	4503B142-BDA8-49C0-8B95-D030F21E0904_1564860177372.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	95.6 KB
ID:	2597938  

jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #13 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 12:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Here I am again. Attached the results of this first attempt. It is not bad but I am sure I can make it better thanks to the fine adjustments available on my projector. I have a question about gamma option. I selected bt 1886 with a low gamma 2.4. I would like to have a gamma at 2.4-2.5. Which option is better? Thank you!
Hi, about your posted measurements with HCFR, configure the software to include gamma errors to the reported dE numbers, from HCFR Preferences -> Advanced -> change the Grayscale handling to ''Absolute Y w/gamma'', to include to the dE calculation the gamma errors also. (Color Difference Formula from Recommend to CIE2000)

While you will fix RGB balance errors, look at each % Grey data the meter reports, there is a Y (which shows to you the measured luminance) and the Y target (which show the target luminance), and re-adjust your settings to fix gamma errors also, for that reason you don't see a straight gamma chart line because your gamma is not accurately calibrated.

@ HCFR Preferences ->Referencies, sewt HDTV-REC.709, display gamma (black compensation) Power Law Gamma 2.4.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #14 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 12:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Attached the results of this first attempt. It is not bad but I am sure I can make it better thanks to the fine adjustments available on my projector. I
Your color gamut is very small, what projector you are calibrating?

Measure all colorspace options you have and choose the one that is has closer coverage of REC.709 colorspace.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Hi, thank you very much for your support. I have a JVC RS25. I will try again a full calibration and see the results. Or I may adjust only the color temperature for the THX preset which delivers a very accurate color gamut. But to do that I have to tweak in the user menu which is a little risky
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #16 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 01:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Hi, thank you very much for your support. I have a JVC RS25. I will try again a full calibration and see the results. Or I may adjust only the color temperature for the THX preset which delivers a very accurate color gamut. But to do that I have to tweak in the user menu which is a little risky
Your black also is 1.74 nits, which is very high for JVC.

See why this is happening, somewhere you have levels mismatch of patterns or input settings of projector.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #17 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Yes I noticed how the black level was too high. I will figure it out this evening what was wrong. Thank you for your generous suggestions!
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #18 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 01:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Your black also is 1.74 nits, which is very high for JVC.

See why this is happening, somewhere you have levels mismatch of patterns or input settings of projector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Hi, thank you very much for your support. I have a JVC RS25. I will try again a full calibration and see the results. Or I may adjust only the color temperature for the THX preset which delivers a very accurate color gamut. But to do that I have to tweak in the user menu which is a little risky
About your lifted black (1.74 nits)

The issue you see is related with Input Level setting of JVC, I'm not familiar with your model, but look what is happening with JVC...

There is a setting called 'Input Signal' and probably you have 'Auto' right now, which is the same as Standard when you send signal from a stand alone blu-ray player.

With 'Standard', it top end (headroom, above 235) and low end below reference black, so 16 and below, it will be clipped, it will be impossible to see any flashing bars below 16 or above 235.

The problem here is that if the 17 is not flashing, when you will increase brightness setting to see 17 slightly flashing, you can increase your native black level (since you will not see any flashing bars of 16 or below 16 to flash...preventing you from incorrect adjustment.

With 'Enhanced', you will see everything flashing (top end, above 235 and below 16) but your black level will be incorrect (it will look like 6.3% gray) so you will have to reduce Brightness to resolve. Here you will need meter to do it right. But it can resolve a problem of near black details (of Standard/superwhite setting, if exist a slight clipping of near black detail)...here you will need a meter to see what is your near black level performance, measuring 0.5% / 1% / 2% / 3% / 4% / 5% Gray, evaluating your adjustments decisions/options.

With 'Super White', you will have headroom (top end will flash) but below 16 will be clipped.

See there why you need headroom: LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

When you have a colorimeter, another way to evaluate your near black performance and without loosing your native black level; to find your best Brightness setting which will not lift your black level (reduce your contrast ratio); display any Brightness Pattern and pause when the flashing bars are static.



After that place your meter at the middle left area where you see total black (bars 2-10 as example, red circle stroke to the picture above) and take a black reading with your meter with your Brightness setting @ 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

Doing this you will find the setting which will not increase your black level while at your right side you will see which near black bars you see at the same time.

A lot of time when users are adjusting their brightness control looking the flashing bars of a brightness patterns, sometimes incorrect adjustment while trying to display 17 bar, it can lift the black level so this will provide poorer black level and lower contrast ratio.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #19 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Yes I use the standard input signal with 17 bar lightly flashing and total black at 16. The brightness is set to 0 which is correct as well as contrast with 234 bar lightly flashing. I don’t use the enhanced signal or super white. I have to find out why the black level was so high
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #20 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I can even reduce to -1 or -2 the brightness with a little less shadow details but more solid black level. Although with the default 0 the brightness pattern is correctly displayed with 17 bar lightly flashing
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #21 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 03:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,647
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4654 Post(s)
Liked: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
I can even reduce to -1 or -2 the brightness with a little less shadow details but more solid black level. Although with the default 0 the brightness pattern is correctly displayed with 17 bar lightly flashing
To me the Brightness is set correctly only if it does not raise the black level. Bar 17 may or may not be “visible”, depending on the display and the gamma you’re using.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 08-03-2019 at 04:11 PM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #22 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 03:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Yes I use the standard input signal with 17 bar lightly flashing and total black at 16. The brightness is set to 0 which is correct as well as contrast with 234 bar lightly flashing. I don’t use the enhanced signal or super white. I have to find out why the black level was so high
You have to not clip to 235, see why you need to leave 'headroom' there.

See also EBU TECH 3320 (Version 4.1 - September 2019) - User Requirements for Video Monitors in Television Production, defines the technical characteristics for video broadcast monitors used in a professional TV production environment for evaluation and control of the images being produced.

100% luminance on the screen corresponds to a 10-bit luma signal of digital level 940, and the black level corresponds to a 10-bit luma signal of digital level 64.

100% luminance on the screen is defined as the luminance of a luma signal of digital level 940, but levels 941 through 1019 should also be correctly displayed.

The highest value of 10-bit luma signal is digital level 1019. The luma level 1019 is called 'Super-White' or '109% White'.


You can scan your content to see if it has values out of 16-235, but this is not enough, because you don't see what it will happen to the devices internally during the colorspace conversions and processing.

You can load this 3D LUT File (65-Point Cube file) to a eeColor 3D LUT Box or to madVR randerer (its 65-Point Cube eeColor file format...set madVR 16-235 levels for playback) and it will be display to you the pixels out of range (look for red/yellow/white/cyan pixels: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post55529046

This LUT displays as black all pixels within 16-235 range, yellow when there is a grey under 16, red when there is a RGB component under 16 , Cyan when there is a grey RGB over 235 and white when there is a RGB component over 235. see some still pictures of a quick testing of Mission Impossible - Fallout (Blu-Ray) I performed:











There will be other pixels out of range after other conversion until the signal will drive the panel which are not visible to these stills.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #23 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I would prefer the standard 16-235. I think the there is too little beyond those level to set the display on super white. Anyway I will try it to see what’s the difference in black level. Thank you infinitely! I’ll attempt another calibration tonight hoping better! Otherwise I will just set the color temperature of the THX preset and that’s it!
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #24 of 33 Old 08-03-2019, 04:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To me the Brightness is set correctly only if if does not raise the black level. Bar 17 may not be “visible”, depending on the display and the gamma you’re using.
+1, this is the exact point of the test i suggested with the meter while you evaluate with a brightness pattern.

You don't want to lift your native black level of any device.

The only way where the lifting black is accepted is when you are performing color grading of a content and have different displays where you want to match the black levels so the content you create to look the same to all the monitors you view the same time, usually this performed via a LUT.

For example LightSpace has that capability, to enter what Black level you wantto have the generated LUT, when for example there no manual way (using Brightness display control) to have the exact black level on a specific display with low black when you want to match the blacks it with a a display with native higher black level.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #25 of 33 Old 08-04-2019, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Hi everyone. I tried another night calibration but with poor results. I will post them later. I have a problem with luminance and gamma. I am projecting on a 90” screen from 10feet. According to the throw distance calculator the maximum output would be almost 34fl. I close the aperture of the iris at -13 or -12 to have a ‘pleasant’ view. Nevertheless during calibration if I want to target a minimum of 11fl I have to open the iris to-6 and brightness at that point is very high with a high too much high black level. Now I have a basic doubt: is the meter detecting correctly? I fear that it is not placed correctly. I tried many positions though keeping the one with the higher brightness detection. I think that if I don’t figure out about this basic passage I will never get to a satisfactory result. Thank you!
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #26 of 33 Old 08-04-2019, 09:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,647
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4654 Post(s)
Liked: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Nevertheless during calibration if I want to target a minimum of 11fl I have to open the iris to-6 and brightness at that point is very high with a high too much high black level. Now I have a basic doubt: is the meter detecting correctly?
The high black level is not likely caused by the meter, especially if it reads lower when you close down the iris.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #27 of 33 Old 08-04-2019, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jimmyp1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Attached my last greyscale. I wanted a 2.4 gamma but I couldn’t do better than 2. The luminance is low but at least black level are quite good. Any suggestions? Thank you very much
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DABB25CE-61A1-4457-94FA-A38E2D268C1B_1564943410907.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	144.5 KB
ID:	2598234   Click image for larger version

Name:	04C1E61E-AC9E-4E11-B5D4-9F11955A210D_1564943428451.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	97.4 KB
ID:	2598236   Click image for larger version

Name:	2FDF23EC-104F-455B-8F59-5F32B913AF3C_1564943440403.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	100.2 KB
ID:	2598238   Click image for larger version

Name:	D2A23586-605E-46F8-B091-FB12EBC2BCB1_1564943451946.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	102.9 KB
ID:	2598240   Click image for larger version

Name:	16D0925B-C875-43EE-AF4E-187DF08CB63E_1564943464757.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	92.6 KB
ID:	2598242  

Click image for larger version

Name:	2DDDD0EF-D8E5-427E-B8A3-8C1757A7E10A_1564943478015.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	94.0 KB
ID:	2598244  
jimmyp1974 is offline  
post #28 of 33 Old 08-04-2019, 11:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Attached my last greyscale. I wanted a 2.4 gamma but I couldn’t do better than 2. The luminance is low but at least black level are quite good. Any suggestions? Thank you very much
You need to improve your gamma, measure all options you have available to find which setting provides better gamma tracking, or use custom picture mode, or measure all and find out which is better to start.

Measure with 21-Point Grayscale to see better what is happening to your near black and generally.

You have only 31 nits, aim for 48 nits calibrated, use high lamp and reduce peak from lens aperture....its better idea from low lamp with highly opened aperture.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #29 of 33 Old 08-04-2019, 11:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,647
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4654 Post(s)
Liked: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyp1974 View Post
Attached my last greyscale. I wanted a 2.4 gamma but I couldn’t do better than 2. The luminance is low but at least black level are quite good. Any suggestions? Thank you very much
I would expect the black level of the RS25 to be much lower than this. There may be a level mismatch somewhere, which can affect the black level as well as the gamma.

Is there a Hide button o the remote? That should display a black screen.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 08-04-2019 at 12:13 PM.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #30 of 33 Old 08-04-2019, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 7,931
Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3002 Post(s)
Liked: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I would expect the black level of the RS25 to be much lower than this. There may be a level mismatch somewhere. Is there a Hide button o the remote? That should display a black screen.
The input signal is not configured, its better to set it to SuperWhite if there no problem with near black (looking a brightness pattern) or to Enhanced and reduce Brightness to fix black level.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off